History YMMV / BatmanReturns

31st Jan '17 12:30:03 PM Cieloazul
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** Selina's aforementioned FreakOut can definitely be this too- though many would fail to see it as {{Narm}} at all.

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** Selina's aforementioned FreakOut can definitely be this too- too - though many people, especially the unlucky enough to have witnessed or ''suffered'' a real mental breakdown, would fail to see it as {{Narm}} at all.



* OutOfCharacterMoment: Batman [[spoiler:sticking the bomb he stole from the thin clown on the circus strongman - with a ''smile''. A rather sadistic smile. Before tossing him down into the sewer to be blown up. Like the 1989 film that came before it and the films that came after it, some deaths in ''Returns'' could be said to be Batman "not saving people" or "not being able to save people" (or in the case of the ScaryBlackMan Batman killed during the 1989 film's cathedral climax after said ScaryBlackMan completely kicked his ass arguing self-defense since killing the ScaryBlackMan was the only way to stop him) but what he did to the strongman was simply and undeniably a case of him just straight up killing someone when he didn't have to. The comic book adaptation actually changed it to Batman not killing the strongman at all by just throwing the bomb into the sewer to detonate without anyone attached to it.]]

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* OutOfCharacterMoment: Batman [[spoiler:sticking the bomb he stole from the thin clown on the circus strongman - with a ''smile''. A rather sadistic smile. Before tossing him down into the sewer to be blown up. Like the 1989 film that came before it and the films that came after it, some deaths in ''Returns'' could be said to be Batman "not saving people" or "not being able to save people" (or in the case of the ScaryBlackMan Batman killed during the 1989 film's cathedral climax after said ScaryBlackMan man completely kicked his ass arguing self-defense since killing the ScaryBlackMan mook was the only way to stop him) but what he did to the strongman was simply and undeniably a case of him just straight up killing someone when he didn't have to. The comic book adaptation actually changed it to Batman not killing the strongman at all by just throwing the bomb into the sewer to detonate without anyone attached to it.]]



* TastesLikeDiabetes: Selina's apartment, before her EvilMakeover. Seriously, what grown woman has that many stuffed animals, dollhouses, and pink stuff everywhere? This may be a sign of an already present mental imbalance due to mistreatment by Schreck (i.e., she is the type to cover everything with optimism), supported by Schreck's throwaway line to a man at his speech:

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* TastesLikeDiabetes: Selina's apartment, apartment before her EvilMakeover. Seriously, what grown woman has that many stuffed animals, dollhouses, and pink stuff everywhere? This may be is pretty much a sign of an already present mental imbalance due to mistreatment by Schreck (i.e., she is the type to cover everything with optimism), supported optimism). It gets surely worsened by the mistreatment suffered at Schreck's hands, which is highlighted by Schreck's throwaway line to a man at his speech:
22nd Jan '17 2:49:52 PM Michael_McManus
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%%* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic:
%%BetterThanItSounds is not a trope. It's a just for fun page.
%%Do not list ANY of the villains as a Complete Monster as per the cleanup thread.

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%%* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic:
%%BetterThanItSounds
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: Danny Elfman is not a trope. It's a just for fun page.
%%Do not list ANY of
on point, arguably even moreso than the villains as a Complete Monster as per the cleanup thread.previous film.
18th Nov '16 3:38:03 PM CumbersomeTercel
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** Does Batman himself have any kind of actual character arc in the film that could then reasonably be reflected in ''Batman Forever''? He goes about his work in much the same way as the previous film, with the death of at least one mook on his hands, yet in ''Forever'' he seemed to regret doing things like this. Could it be that he saw what the cycle of revenge and violence was doing to Catwoman and it gave him a wake up call, forcing him to rethink his own life?

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** Does Batman himself have any kind of actual character arc in the film that could then reasonably be reflected in ''Batman Forever''? ''Film/BatmanForever''? He goes about his work in much the same way as the previous film, with the death of at least one mook on his hands, yet in ''Forever'' he seemed to regret doing things like this. Could it be that he saw what the cycle of revenge and violence was doing to Catwoman and it gave him a wake up call, forcing him to rethink his own life?



* HilariousInHindsight: The tagline for Batman Returns was "The Bat. The Cat. The Penguin." In 2014's Film/{{Birdman}} (unrelated to the [[WesternAnimation/{{Birdman}} Hanna-Barbera cartoon]] of the same name), Creator/MichaelKeaton (who plays an actor who in turn plays as the eponymous superhero) would be the one who is a [[AnimalThemedSuperbeing bird themed character]].
** Michelle Pfeiffer plays Catwoman, Batman's most famous love interest in this film. A few years later she would play the love interest and wife to Moses, voiced by fellow Batman actor Val Kilmer, in 1998's ''WesternAnimation/ThePrinceOfEgypt''.
** The [[DirtyOldMan endlessly perverted]] Penguin can be seen as a dry run for Danny [=DeVito=]'s future role as [[Series/ItsAlwaysSunnyInPhiladelphia Frank Reynolds.]]
** Batman record scratching a cd, which uses lasers, was ridiculous then, but [[TechnologyMarchesOn now]] there are record players [[http://www.decodedmagazine.com/the-eip-laser-turntable-plays-records-without-touching-them/ that can use lasers instead of needles.]]

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* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
**
The tagline for Batman Returns was "The Bat. The Cat. The Penguin." In 2014's Film/{{Birdman}} (unrelated to the [[WesternAnimation/{{Birdman}} Hanna-Barbera cartoon]] of the same name), Creator/MichaelKeaton (who plays an actor who in turn plays as the eponymous superhero) would be the one who is a [[AnimalThemedSuperbeing bird themed character]].
** Michelle Pfeiffer Creator/MichellePfeiffer plays Catwoman, Batman's most famous love interest in this film. A few years later she would play the love interest and wife to Moses, voiced by fellow Batman actor Val Kilmer, Creator/ValKilmer, in 1998's ''WesternAnimation/ThePrinceOfEgypt''.
** The [[DirtyOldMan endlessly perverted]] Penguin can be seen as a dry run for Danny [=DeVito=]'s Creator/DannyDeVito's future role as [[Series/ItsAlwaysSunnyInPhiladelphia Frank Reynolds.]]
** Batman record scratching a cd, CD, which uses lasers, was ridiculous then, but [[TechnologyMarchesOn now]] there are record players [[http://www.decodedmagazine.com/the-eip-laser-turntable-plays-records-without-touching-them/ that can use lasers instead of needles.]]



** A crude, loudmouthed tabloid celebrity inexplicably gaining mainstream popularity and running for political office despite having zero experience in public service? [[Creator/DonaldTrump Look like]] ''[[Creator/DonaldTrump Batman Returns]]'' [[Creator/DonaldTrump may have predicted the future]]! And an election to recall the Mayor? In 2003, the state of California held a recall election in a (successful) attempt to get rid of Governor Gray Davis - and who won that election? Creator/ArnoldSchwarzenegger! Yes, a future (as of 1992, that is) ''Batman'' villain, Danny [=DeVito's=] brother in ''Film/{{Twins}}'', ''and'' the original [[Film/TheTerminator Terminator]]... a version of which was built by Creator/StanWinston, who also did the Penguin's makeup in this film.

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** A crude, loudmouthed tabloid celebrity inexplicably gaining mainstream popularity and running for political office despite having zero experience in public service? [[Creator/DonaldTrump Look like]] ''[[Creator/DonaldTrump Batman Returns]]'' [[Creator/DonaldTrump may have predicted the future]]! And an election to recall the Mayor? In 2003, the state of California held a recall election in a (successful) attempt to get rid of Governor Gray Davis - and who won that election? Creator/ArnoldSchwarzenegger! Yes, a future (as of 1992, that is) ''Batman'' villain, Danny [=DeVito's=] Creator/DannyDeVito's brother in ''Film/{{Twins}}'', ''and'' the original [[Film/TheTerminator Terminator]]... a version of which was built by Creator/StanWinston, who also did the Penguin's makeup in this film.



* HollywoodHomely: Michelle Pfeiffer as Selina Kyle. In the time period the movie seemed to be mimicking, executive assistants and secretaries weren't hired for their office skills but for their... ahem... other assets. The movie itself showed that Selina was treated bad mostly because she was so timid she was intimidated just by being in the same room as a bunch of people. But, in her favor, she is also shown pre-transformation as intelligent... just overlooked due to the sexism of her workplace.

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* HollywoodHomely: Michelle Pfeiffer HollywoodHomely:
** Creator/MichellePfeiffer
as Selina Kyle. In the time period the movie seemed to be mimicking, executive assistants and secretaries weren't hired for their office skills but for their... ahem... other assets. The movie itself showed that Selina was treated bad mostly because she was so timid she was intimidated just by being in the same room as a bunch of people. But, in her favor, she is also shown pre-transformation as intelligent... just overlooked due to the sexism of her workplace.



* JustHereForGodzilla: Even those who dislike the film are willing to admit that Michelle Pfeiffer and Danny [=DeVito=] turned in great performances.

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* JustHereForGodzilla: Even those who dislike the film are willing to admit that Michelle Pfeiffer Creator/MichellePfeiffer and Danny [=DeVito=] Creator/DannyDeVito turned in great performances.



* MemeticMutation: "Bruce Wayne... why are you dressed up like Batman?" Naturally, this requires a ChristopherWalken impression for the full effect.

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* MemeticMutation: "Bruce Wayne... why are you dressed up like Batman?" Naturally, this requires a ChristopherWalken Creator/ChristopherWalken impression for the full effect.



** Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman became a popular feminist icon - which is somewhat understandable, since such characters were relatively few and far between in 1980s and early '90s mainstream films. But Selina herself realizes that she is not an empowering figure at all, but [[HeWhoFightsMonsters just as much a thug as the men who have persecuted her]]. This should be clear from the guilt-ridden scolding she gives herself while looking in a shop window, as well as the fact that she ''cries'' when Bruce challenges her to explain what she's really feeling.

to:

** Michelle Pfeiffer's Creator/MichellePfeiffer's Catwoman became a popular feminist icon - which is somewhat understandable, since such characters were relatively few and far between in 1980s and early '90s mainstream films. But Selina herself realizes that she is not an empowering figure at all, but [[HeWhoFightsMonsters just as much a thug as the men who have persecuted her]]. This should be clear from the guilt-ridden scolding she gives herself while looking in a shop window, as well as the fact that she ''cries'' when Bruce challenges her to explain what she's really feeling.



* MoralEventHorizon: The Penguin crossed the line after he had to ditch the mayor campaign and decided to kidnap all of Gotham's firstborn children, including the babies, with the intention of drowning them in a deep puddle of Shreck's industrial byproducts.

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* MoralEventHorizon: MoralEventHorizon:
**
The Penguin crossed the line after he had to ditch the mayor campaign and decided to kidnap all of Gotham's firstborn children, including the babies, with the intention of drowning them in a deep puddle of Shreck's industrial byproducts.



* NarmCharm: [[spoiler: The Penguin's death. When Oswald, wearing pajamas, asks for a drink of ice water as his last words, falls over dead, and is ceremoniously pushed into the sewer by six emperor penguins, acing as pallbearers, while sad and dramatic music plays in the background, it should be completely ridiculous!]] But somehow, it isn't. The scene still works, and is actually rather moving.

to:

* NarmCharm: NarmCharm:
**
[[spoiler: The Penguin's death. When Oswald, wearing pajamas, pyjamas, asks for a drink of ice water as his last words, falls over dead, and is ceremoniously pushed into the sewer by six emperor penguins, acing as pallbearers, while sad and dramatic music plays in the background, it should be completely ridiculous!]] But somehow, it isn't. The scene still works, and is actually rather moving.



* SpecialEffectsFailure: As the Batmobile goes on its rampage, the mechanisms used to flip the parked cars can be seen.

to:

* SpecialEffectsFailure: SpecialEffectsFailure:
**
As the Batmobile goes on its rampage, the mechanisms used to flip the parked cars can be seen.



* VindicatedByHistory: Audience reception to this movie was mixed to negative, with many people finding the movie weird and/or disturbing. In fact, ''Film/BatmanForever'' was much better received in 1995 for being more of a popcorn flick. Now over 20 years later, while ''Batman Returns'' still has a large amount of detractors (mainly for liberally adapting the source material and Batman playing second-fiddle to the villains, though even Christopher Nolan's Bat-films have been criticized for the latter), just as many people consider it the best Burton/Schumacher film, if not the best Batman film, period. It has the highest rating on Rotten Tomatoes for the Burton/Schumacher series. (''Forever'', meanwhile, is often ranked by fans somewhere near the bottom of the barrel, thanks in part to [[Film/BatmanAndRobin its own sequel.]])
* WhatAnIdiot: When Max Schreck [[spoiler:sees Batman unmasked]], he says [[spoiler:"Bruce Wayne? Why are you dressed up as Batman?" Selina quickly points out that Shreck is a moron]]. He gave Selina another excuse to kill him after he apparently shot Batman in front of her. [[spoiler: He had his armor on and Max was unfortunate enough to miss his exposed head.]]

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: Audience reception to this movie was mixed to negative, with many people finding the movie weird and/or disturbing. In fact, ''Film/BatmanForever'' was much better received in 1995 for being more of a popcorn flick. Now over 20 years later, while ''Batman Returns'' still has a large amount of detractors (mainly for liberally adapting the source material and Batman playing second-fiddle to the villains, though even Christopher Nolan's Creator/ChristopherNolan's Bat-films have been criticized for the latter), just as many people consider it the best Burton/Schumacher film, if not the best Batman film, period. It has the highest rating on Rotten Tomatoes for the Burton/Schumacher series. (''Forever'', meanwhile, is often ranked by fans somewhere near the bottom of the barrel, thanks in part to [[Film/BatmanAndRobin its own sequel.]])
* WhatAnIdiot: WhatAnIdiot:
**
When Max Schreck [[spoiler:sees Batman unmasked]], he says [[spoiler:"Bruce Wayne? Why are you dressed up as Batman?" Selina quickly points out that Shreck is a moron]]. He gave Selina another excuse to kill him after he apparently shot Batman in front of her. [[spoiler: He had his armor on and Max was unfortunate enough to miss his exposed head.]]
9th Nov '16 3:15:13 PM NWolfman
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Added DiffLines:

* TrueArtIsAngsty: Easily the darkest ''Batman'' film for many years, bordering on nihilistic, from the grotesque villains to the DownerEnding.
26th Oct '16 5:16:51 PM HBICece
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Added DiffLines:

** The HoYay between Shreck and Penguin, given the latter's AdaptationalSexuality in his [[{{Series/Gotham}} next incarnation.]]
5th Oct '16 9:54:07 PM philipnova798
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Added DiffLines:

* SpecialEffectsFailure: As the Batmobile goes on its rampage, the mechanisms used to flip the parked cars can be seen.
** While the penguins themselves are an example of VisualEffectsOfAwesome, they're clearly not touching [[spoiler: The Penguin's body as they cast him off during his funeral]].
** The Batmobile's armor is clearly cartoonish CGI.
19th Aug '16 5:04:40 PM TVRulezAgain
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** Michelle Pfeiffer plays Catwoman, Batman's most famous love interest in this film. A few years later she would play the love interest and wife to Moses, voiced by fellow Batman actor Val Kilmer, in 1998's ''ThePrinceOfEgypt''.

to:

** Michelle Pfeiffer plays Catwoman, Batman's most famous love interest in this film. A few years later she would play the love interest and wife to Moses, voiced by fellow Batman actor Val Kilmer, in 1998's ''ThePrinceOfEgypt''.''WesternAnimation/ThePrinceOfEgypt''.
9th Jul '16 10:16:22 AM Shadowgazer
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* EvilIsSexy: Catwoman. Just look at that outfit. If you look at her beh

to:

* EvilIsSexy: Catwoman. Just look at that outfit. If you look at her behbehaviour though, you may argue that antiheroic is sexy.
9th Jul '16 10:09:41 AM Shadowgazer
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* EvilIsSexy: Catwoman. Just look at that outfit.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: Not only for this series but the entire genre, Catwoman was arguably the first ever Unneeded Secondary Villain In A Superhero Film Sequel. With Penguin and Schreck as the main villains, Selina was mostly in her own plot throughout the movie, and she only briefly works with the Penguin. And even then, her job--distracting Batman while the Penguin's mooks hack into the Batmobile--could have been done by another mook.

to:

* EvilIsSexy: Catwoman. Just look at that outfit.
outfit. If you look at her beh
* FranchiseOriginalSin: Not only for this series but the entire genre, Catwoman was arguably the first ever Unneeded Secondary Villain In A Superhero Film Sequel. With Penguin and Schreck as the main villains, Selina was mostly in her own plot throughout the movie, and she only briefly works with the Penguin. And even then, her job--distracting Batman while the Penguin's mooks hack into the Batmobile--could have been done by another mook. She is still probably the best example of this, as she is a really well-rounded character with emotional depth and impact and much symbolism that fits perfectly into the films themes and mirrors the primary villain's case.



** Selina's aforementioned FreakOut can definitely be this too- though some would fail to see it as {{Narm}} at all.
* NightmareFuel: With surprisingly gross behavior from the Penguin (i.e. biting a man's nose and his death scene where carcinogens pour from his mouth). There's also Selina's breakdown and Max Shreck's demise.
** And the Ice Princess falling to her death - especially since we see her screaming all the way down ''and'' hitting the ground. Even ''Film/DieHard'' didn't do that, and that was an '''R-rated''' movie!
** The intro. From Baby!Penguin's treatment at the hands of his AbusiveParents (no matter what he looks like) to the fact you never actually see his appearance ([[NothingIsScarier leaving you to wonder just what it is about him that warrants such horror and disgust]]). And the cat-killing and the attempted drowning are just the icing on the cake. And all at Christmastime, too!

to:

** Selina's aforementioned FreakOut can definitely be this too- though some many would fail to see it as {{Narm}} at all.
* NightmareFuel: With surprisingly gross behavior from the Penguin (i.e. biting a man's nose and his death scene where carcinogens pour from his mouth). There's also Selina's breakdown and Max Shreck's demise.
** And the Ice Princess falling to her death - especially since we see her screaming all the way down ''and'' hitting the ground. Even ''Film/DieHard'' didn't do that, and that was an '''R-rated''' movie!
** The intro. From Baby!Penguin's treatment at the hands of his AbusiveParents (no matter what he looks like) to the fact you never actually see his appearance ([[NothingIsScarier leaving you to wonder just what it is about him that warrants such horror and disgust]]). And the cat-killing and the attempted drowning are just the icing on the cake. And all at Christmastime, too!
all.
16th May '16 9:06:29 AM AnotherGuy
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** One of the headlines of the newspapers is "'''MEE-OUCH!''', which was the New York Post's review of ''Film/{{Catwoman}}''.

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** One of the headlines of the newspapers is "'''MEE-OUCH!''', "'''MEE-OUCH!'''", which was the New York Post's review of ''Film/{{Catwoman}}''.
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