Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / BatmanMaskofthePhantasm

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
zero context


* IronWoobie: Bruce Wayne.



* JerkassWoobie: [[spoiler:Andrea.]]

Changed: 253

Removed: 233

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV cannot be played with


* VindicatedByHistory: A downplayed example. When the film was initially released, reviews ''were'' generally positive but the film was a failure at the box office due to getting a last-minute release with little advertising. However it eventually turned a profit in its home video releases and in the years since then it has only become more well-regarded, and is now hailed as not only one of the best ''Batman'' films, but one of the best animated films ever.
** Notoriously, Siskel and Ebert neglected to review the movie when it was in theaters but later admitted they made a mistake in overlooking it and stated it was superior to the other Batman movie of the time, ''Film/BatmanForever''.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: A downplayed example. When the film was initially released, reviews ''were'' generally positive but the film was a failure at the box office due to getting a last-minute release with little advertising. However it eventually turned a profit in its home video releases and in the years since then it has only become more well-regarded, and is now hailed as not only one of the best ''Batman'' films, but one of the best animated films ever.
**
ever. Notoriously, Siskel and Ebert neglected to review the movie when it was in theaters but later admitted they made a mistake in overlooking it and stated it was superior to the other Batman movie of the time, ''Film/BatmanForever''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ValuesDissonance: Joker calling Andrea "Toots" would not get into a kids film today, given its offensive nature towards women.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Unnecessary.


--> '''Jeremy,''' '''"[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]"''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Checked, he didint have anything to do with the film


** Music/HansZimmer played the synthesizer for the score. He would go on to compose the music for ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> '''Jeremy,''' ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

to:

--> '''Jeremy,''' ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'''': '''"[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]"''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> '''Jeremy,''' '''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

to:

--> '''Jeremy,''' '''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]''': ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> '''Jeremy,''' ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

to:

--> '''Jeremy,''' ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': '''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]''': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> Jeremy, ''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

to:

--> Jeremy, ''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins '''Jeremy,''' ''''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

Changed: 11

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> Jeremy, ''[[WebOriginal/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

to:

--> Jeremy, ''[[WebOriginal/CinemaSins ''[[WebVideo/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"

Added: 310

Changed: 98

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: The film is easily one of the darkest films in the DCAU, and arguably animated ''Batman'' films period, but still has a PG rating and is marketed under WB's Family Entertainment line.

to:

* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: The film is easily one of the darkest films in the DCAU, and arguably animated ''Batman'' films period, but still has a PG rating and is rating, marketed under WB's Family Entertainment line.line, and even has Bugs Bunny standing in front of the WB shield at the beginning of the movie.
--> Jeremy, ''[[WebOriginal/CinemaSins [=CinemaSins=]]]'': "Because this is what you think about when watching ''Batman'': Bugs Bunny. Remember that time Bugs was eating people and Batman solved the case by when he found traces of beta carotene in the bite wounds? Creator/FrankMiller was a dark motherfucker!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Was Andrea planning on [[spoiler: murdering Arthur for her role in her father’s death as well?]]

to:

** Was Andrea planning on [[spoiler: murdering Arthur for her his role in her father’s death as well?]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Was Andrea planning on [[spoiler: murdering Arthur for her role in her father’s death as well?]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** You can tell that the film had a bigger budget than the TV show from the fact that they were able to use a 30-piece choir to sing along with the orchestra, something unheard of on the show.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Batman trying to escape from the cops.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* {{Narm}}: The stand-off with the police is a little undercut by the SWAT members all shouting “Hut! Hut! Hut!” It’s very hard not to imagine the climax of ''Film/TheBluesBrothers''.


Added DiffLines:

** Notoriously, Siskel and Ebert neglected to review the movie when it was in theaters but later admitted they made a mistake in overlooking it and stated it was superior to the other Batman movie of the time, ''Film/BatmanForever''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Music/HansZimmer played the synthesizer for the score. He would go on to compose the music for ''Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cut trope


* CounterpartComparison:
** The Phantasm's voice and DissonantSerenity have often been compared to [[Franchise/KingdomHearts Xemnas]]'s.
** The Phantasm can also be compared to the Red Hood, as both are murderous vigilantes with a grudge against the Joker, and they are both somebody [[spoiler: from Bruce's past that he deeply cared about]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Why is Andrea able to so conveniently arrive to save Batman from the police pursuit? [[spoiler:Because she was already there, fighting him as the Phantasm just minutes before.]]

Added: 1453

Changed: 836

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Creator/TiaCarrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too--Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: FridgeBrilliance:
** As noted in this [[http://sfdebris.com/videos/animation/maskofthephantasm.php review by SF Debris]], for years in this series, it is said that "Bruce Wayne" is the mask for Batman. "Bruce" is the mask he wears in the light to hide his true personality and beliefs. Now, consider the title of the movie, "Mask of the Phantasm" isn't just trying to be scary about the titular character. It refers equally to [[spoiler:like Batman using "Bruce", the mask of the Phantasm is "Andrea Beaumont." Like Batman, Phantasm uses the appearance of a socialite person to move by people who have not earned her vengeance]].
**
More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Creator/TiaCarrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too--Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FridgeBrilliance: More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Tia Carrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too--Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.

to:

* FridgeBrilliance: More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Tia Carrere Creator/TiaCarrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too--Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker both pre-transformation and post-transformation. Closer to the [[Film/{{Batman}} 1989 movie]]'s origin of the character than the MultipleChoicePast's origin of the comics, though no less ambiguous than the latter. See [[YMMV/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries here]] for more details.

to:

* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker both pre-transformation and post-transformation. Closer to the [[Film/{{Batman}} [[Film/Batman1989 1989 movie]]'s origin of the character than the MultipleChoicePast's origin of the comics, though no less ambiguous than the latter. See [[YMMV/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries here]] for more details.

Added: 701

Changed: 441

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Does the Joker know, or at least suspect, that [[spoiler:Bruce and Batman are one and the same]] at the end? If so, his laugh at the end could be triumph at his realization that his actions [[spoiler:have corrupted and driven away his archenemy's greatest love.]] ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker'' would seem to contradict this, though it's certainly possible it didn't count for him unless the info was forcibly extracted...

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
**
Does the Joker know, or at least suspect, that [[spoiler:Bruce and Batman are one and the same]] at the end? If so, his laugh at the end could be triumph at his realization that his actions [[spoiler:have corrupted and driven away his archenemy's greatest love.]] ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker'' would seem to contradict this, though it's certainly possible it didn't count for him unless the info was forcibly extracted...extracted...
** Alfred's reaction to Bruce when he puts on the mask for the first time. Is Alfred reacting to Bruce's terrifying appearance, or to the realization that he has finally cast aside any chance of a normal life, and has irrevocably set himself on this course.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague Unlimited'' episode "Epilogue" also showed [[spoiler:Andrea's future: as a contract hitman]].

to:

** The ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague Unlimited'' episode "Epilogue" also showed [[spoiler:Andrea's future: as a contract hitman]].hitman (though one that still retains at least a tiny amount of morality)]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans felt that the film worked better on its own and shouldn't have been in canon with the series (Joker's death, Reeves' mere presence, and the absence of both Robin and Harley Quinn being indicators that it was in its own continuity) and were only forced to accept it as canon with [[spoiler: Andrea's in-costume cameo in the JLU episode 'Epilogue']]. With the release of the now rare "Shadow of the Phantasm" ''Batman'' annual explaining why [[spoiler: Andrea]] left Joker alive and the fate of Reeves, some have accepted it, but others see this comic as Paul Dini admitting they wrote themselves into a corner.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwesomeMusic:

to:

* AwesomeMusic:SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FoeYay: When he visits Arthur Reeves to try and get answers on who killed the mob bosses, we get this little line from ComicBook/TheJoker (what, and this ''surprises'' you?)

to:

* FoeYay: When he visits Arthur Reeves to try and get answers on who killed the mob bosses, we get this little line from ComicBook/TheJoker (what, and this ''surprises'' you?)you?)[[note]]Bonus points for the Phantasm being a ''woman''.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Unapproved by the MB thread


* MagnificentBastard: The Joker is in top form here, playing the Phantasm and Valestra like fiddles, and ''immediately'' [[spoiler:deducing the Phantasm's true identity when he hears Andrea is in town]]. Add to the fact that his entire ''lair'' is a series of insanely awesome death traps and one of the [[DieLaughing classiest exits]] in the entirety of Western animation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker both pre-transformation and post-transformation. Closer to the [[Film/{{Batman}} 1989 movie]]'s origin of the character than the MultipleChoicePast's origin of the comics, though no less ambiguous than the latter.

to:

* CompleteMonster: ComicBook/TheJoker both pre-transformation and post-transformation. Closer to the [[Film/{{Batman}} 1989 movie]]'s origin of the character than the MultipleChoicePast's origin of the comics, though no less ambiguous than the latter. See [[YMMV/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries here]] for more details.

Added: 311

Changed: 350

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AwesomeMusic: And '''how'''. Shirley Walker cited her work here as one of her favorite compositions, and it's not hard [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGCLJ4BQXXQ&index=1&list=PL5D3839EE13F3367A to hear why]].

to:

* AwesomeMusic: AwesomeMusic:
**
And '''how'''. Shirley Walker cited her work here as one of her favorite compositions, and it's not hard [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGCLJ4BQXXQ&index=1&list=PL5D3839EE13F3367A to hear why]].



* CounterpartComparison: The Phantasm's voice and DissonantSerenity have often been compared to [[Franchise/KingdomHearts Xemnas]]'s.

to:

* CounterpartComparison: CounterpartComparison:
**
The Phantasm's voice and DissonantSerenity have often been compared to [[Franchise/KingdomHearts Xemnas]]'s.



* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans felt that the film worked better on its own and shouldn't have been in canon with the series (Joker's death, Reeves' mere presence, and the absence of both Robin and Harley Quinn being indicators that it was in its own continuity) and were only forced to accept it as canon with [[spoiler: Andrea's in-costume cameo in the JLU episode 'Epilogue']]. With the release of the now rare Shadow of the Phantasm Batman annual explaining why [[spoiler: Andrea]] left Joker alive and the fate of Reeves, some have accepted it, but others see this comic as Paul Dini admitting they wrote themselves into a corner.
* FridgeBrilliance: More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Tia Carrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too -- Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: Some fans felt that the film worked better on its own and shouldn't have been in canon with the series (Joker's death, Reeves' mere presence, and the absence of both Robin and Harley Quinn being indicators that it was in its own continuity) and were only forced to accept it as canon with [[spoiler: Andrea's in-costume cameo in the JLU episode 'Epilogue']]. With the release of the now rare Shadow "Shadow of the Phantasm Batman Phantasm" ''Batman'' annual explaining why [[spoiler: Andrea]] left Joker alive and the fate of Reeves, some have accepted it, but others see this comic as Paul Dini admitting they wrote themselves into a corner.
* FridgeBrilliance: More like Fridge Tearjerking. The song "I Never Even Told You" by Tia Carrere doesn't make sense in terms of Bruce and Andrea's relationship. After all, the ''entire film'' was about how they loved each other and told each other so. So, who is the song about? And then it hits you: it's about '''Bruce and his parents'''. It was a sudden, brutal murder. The way they were killed never gave Bruce a chance to tell them he loved them or even goodbye. Bruce's parents never got to say goodbye or tell him they loved him. Their deaths hang over the entire film, too -- Bruce too--Bruce is looking for love and acceptance, because he never got closure with his parents. It's the entire reason he's Batman. He was willing to toss away being Batman because of love. All of which is denied him in the film, all stemming from not having that closure.



-->'''Arthur Reeves:''' Haven't you read the papers?! It's Batman!
-->'''The Joker:''' (''makes a buzz noise'') Wrong! It ain't the Bat! Nope, nope, nope! I've ''seen'' the guy. He looks more like [[Literature/AChristmasCarol the Ghost of Christmas Future]]. Nowhere near as cute as Bat-boy.

to:

-->'''Arthur Reeves:''' Haven't you read the papers?! It's Batman!
-->'''The
Batman!\\
'''The
Joker:''' (''makes ''[makes a buzz noise'') noise]'' Wrong! It ain't the Bat! Nope, nope, nope! I've ''seen'' the guy. He looks more like [[Literature/AChristmasCarol the Ghost of Christmas Future]]. Nowhere near as cute as Bat-boy.



** The Joker says "Why so formal?" to Sal Valestra. Replace "formal" with a synonym [[Film/TheDarkKnight and you get...]]

to:

** The Joker says says, "Why so formal?" to Sal Valestra. Replace "formal" with a synonym [[Film/TheDarkKnight and you get...]]



* MagnificentBastard: The Joker is in top form here, playing Phantasm and Valestra like fiddles, and ''immediately'' [[spoiler:deducing Phantasm's true identity when he hears Andrea is in town.]] Add to the fact that his entire ''lair'' is a series of insanely awesome death traps and one of the [[DieLaughing classiest exits]] in the entirety of western animation.
* MisaimedFandom: The sequence with Batman confronting Andrea in her hotel room, ending with her declaring that ''"The only one in this room controlled by their parents is '''you''',"'' has become something of a moderate MemeticMutation from the film and is typically used on places like Tumblr to blast Batman for the root cause of his being Batman. In context, however, it completely ignores the fact that [[spoiler: Andrea is just like Bruce, if not worse, as she's become a killer because of the death of her father and seeks vengeance only on those involved with said death while having no plan for her life afterwards, possibly even wishing to die achieving her final vengeance. Even she admittedly doesn't get that Batman is ''not'' about vengeance, as demonstrated at the film's end]].

to:

* MagnificentBastard: The Joker is in top form here, playing the Phantasm and Valestra like fiddles, and ''immediately'' [[spoiler:deducing the Phantasm's true identity when he hears Andrea is in town.]] town]]. Add to the fact that his entire ''lair'' is a series of insanely awesome death traps and one of the [[DieLaughing classiest exits]] in the entirety of western Western animation.
* MisaimedFandom: The sequence with Batman confronting Andrea in her hotel room, ending with her declaring that ''"The "The only one in this room controlled by their parents is '''you''',"'' '''you'''," has become something of a moderate MemeticMutation from the film and is typically used on places like Tumblr to blast Batman for the root cause of his being Batman. In context, however, it completely ignores the fact that [[spoiler: Andrea is just like Bruce, if not worse, as she's become a killer because of the death of her father and seeks vengeance only on those involved with said death while having no plan for her life afterwards, possibly even wishing to die achieving her final vengeance. Even she admittedly doesn't get that Batman is ''not'' about vengeance, as demonstrated at the film's end]].



* VindicatedByHistory: A downplayed example. When the film was initially released, reviews ''were'' generally positive but the film was a failure at the box office due to getting a last-minute release with little advertising. However it eventually turned a profit in its home video releases and in the years since then it has only become more well-regarded, and is now hailed as not only one of the best Batman films, but one of the best animated films ever.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: The film is easily one of the darkest films in the DCAU, and arguably animated Batman films period, but still has a PG rating and is marketed under WB's Family Entertainment line.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: A downplayed example. When the film was initially released, reviews ''were'' generally positive but the film was a failure at the box office due to getting a last-minute release with little advertising. However it eventually turned a profit in its home video releases and in the years since then it has only become more well-regarded, and is now hailed as not only one of the best Batman ''Batman'' films, but one of the best animated films ever.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: The film is easily one of the darkest films in the DCAU, and arguably animated Batman ''Batman'' films period, but still has a PG rating and is marketed under WB's Family Entertainment line.

Top