History WhatMeasureIsANonHuman / WesternAnimation

9th Jun '18 10:31:08 AM SymBionicFan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Kong: The Animated Series'', the only characters to possibly die are Set, Onimous, Harpy, and Chiros - all of whom are evil monsters. Ramone De La Porta is just as evil and power-hungry as any of them, yet he is not killed (though suffers a FateWorseThanDeath brought on by Chiros). Main characters attempt to save him whenever he is in mortal danger, even though they know how evil he is, and it would save them a lot of trouble and having to foil his evil plans if they just let him die one of these times. The same goes for Andre, the arms dealer, in one of his two major appearances.

to:

* In ''Kong: The Animated Series'', ''WesternAnimation/KongTheAnimatedSeries'', the only characters to possibly die are Set, Onimous, Harpy, and Chiros - all of whom are evil monsters. Ramone De La Porta is just as evil and power-hungry as any of them, yet he is not killed (though suffers a FateWorseThanDeath brought on by Chiros). Main characters attempt to save him whenever he is in mortal danger, even though they know how evil he is, and it would save them a lot of trouble and having to foil his evil plans if they just let him die one of these times. The same goes for Andre, the arms dealer, in one of his two major appearances.



* Discussed and averted in WesternAnimation/TheAvengersUnitedTheyStand episode "Remnants." The Avengers consider killing the robots they discover on the island, but aren't sure if the robots matter morally or not and decide to avoid killing them until they can be sure. [[spoiler: Eventually they discover that the robots will kill everyone else on Earth and have the UN nuke the island. They deeply regret the robots' deaths and feel just as bad as if they had been forced to kill humans.]]

to:

* Discussed and averted in WesternAnimation/TheAvengersUnitedTheyStand ''WesternAnimation/TheAvengersUnitedTheyStand'' episode "Remnants." The Avengers consider killing the robots they discover on the island, but aren't sure if the robots matter morally or not and decide to avoid killing them until they can be sure. [[spoiler: Eventually they discover that the robots will kill everyone else on Earth and have the UN nuke the island. They deeply regret the robots' deaths and feel just as bad as if they had been forced to kill humans.]]



** The clones of Twilight and her friends in ''[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS8E13TheMean6 The Mean 6]]'' get a surprisingly dark death scene ([[https://trixiebooru.org/1750459 one that was even toned down considerably before release]]) that no real but equally evil pony villain would ever get, in spite of them apparently being free thinking enough to be motivated to [[TurnedOnTheirMasters turn on their creator]] so they didn't have to follow her orders. Justified InUniverse though, as the only one who's around to witness their death is Queen Chrysalis who wouldn't care about "real" ponies dying either.

to:

** The clones of Twilight and her friends in ''[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS8E13TheMean6 "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS8E13TheMean6 The Mean 6]]'' 6]]" get a surprisingly dark death scene ([[https://trixiebooru.org/1750459 one that was even toned down considerably before release]]) that no real but equally evil pony villain would ever get, in spite of them apparently being free thinking enough to be motivated to [[TurnedOnTheirMasters turn on their creator]] so they didn't have to follow her orders. Justified InUniverse though, as the only one who's around to witness their death is Queen Chrysalis who wouldn't care about "real" ponies dying either.
7th Jun '18 3:37:11 PM gophergiggles
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* A case of What Measure is a Non-Equine in the ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' episode "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS3E3TooManyPinkiePies Too Many Pinkie Pies]]". Some of them could talk, the ones who couldn't talk could still understand complex speech, they were fully capable of learning (particularly the first one that was around longer than the rest) and even felt emotions (again, the first one was devastated that she was missing "fun" events and the last one to be zapped looked [[https://derpibooru.org/450042 notably scared]]), but the ponies didn't even think twice about zapping them into oblivion. Needless to say, some of the FanArt and FanFiction about the episode is downright [[NightmareFuel terrifying]], with some fans going far enough to consider it the [[MoralEventHorizon most evil act in the entire series]]. A CallBack in a later episode showed that [[https://derpibooru.org/1159462 one escaped]] and has since gone on to make a life for herself in another town, seemingly cementing that they [[ReallyWasBornYesterday Really Were Born Yesterday]] rather than "mindless copies".

to:

* A case couple of cases of What Measure is a Non-Equine pop up in the ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' episode ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'':
**
"[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS3E3TooManyPinkiePies Too Many Pinkie Pies]]". Some of them could talk, the ones who couldn't talk could still understand complex speech, they were fully capable of learning (particularly the first one that was around longer than the rest) and even felt emotions (again, the first one was devastated that she was missing "fun" events and the last one to be zapped looked [[https://derpibooru.org/450042 notably scared]]), but the ponies didn't even think twice about zapping them into oblivion. Needless to say, some of the FanArt and FanFiction about the episode is downright [[NightmareFuel terrifying]], with some fans going far enough to consider it the [[MoralEventHorizon most evil act in the entire series]]. A CallBack in a later episode showed that [[https://derpibooru.org/1159462 one escaped]] and has since gone on to make a life for herself in another town, seemingly cementing that they [[ReallyWasBornYesterday Really Were Born Yesterday]] rather than "mindless copies".copies".
** The clones of Twilight and her friends in ''[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS8E13TheMean6 The Mean 6]]'' get a surprisingly dark death scene ([[https://trixiebooru.org/1750459 one that was even toned down considerably before release]]) that no real but equally evil pony villain would ever get, in spite of them apparently being free thinking enough to be motivated to [[TurnedOnTheirMasters turn on their creator]] so they didn't have to follow her orders. Justified InUniverse though, as the only one who's around to witness their death is Queen Chrysalis who wouldn't care about "real" ponies dying either.
21st Apr '18 6:16:43 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/BuzzLightyearOfStarCommand'' has hordes of robot drones that are just there to be shot (granted, they don't appear to possess any brain function). More {{egregious}} examples are NOS-4-A2 (a robot that is, to all outward appearances, sentient and the only non-drone villain to be actually killed) and XR, the PluckyComicRelief RobotBuddy who spends much of his time getting blown up, crushed, dismembered and tortured in various ways- and none of the protagonists seem to care, despite the fact XR displays myriad human traits and emotions (having outbursts rivaling those of a hormonal 13-year-old girl) and has just as well-rounded a personality as any organic character on the show. As a result, a far amount of FanFic looks at him as [[TheWoobie a victim]]. It may just be because XR gets better every time. Still, he seems to feel ''pain'', and react to it [[ComedicSociopathy accordingly]].

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/BuzzLightyearOfStarCommand'' has hordes of robot drones that are just there to be shot (granted, they don't appear to possess any brain function). More {{egregious}} JustForFun/{{egregious}} examples are NOS-4-A2 (a robot that is, to all outward appearances, sentient and the only non-drone villain to be actually killed) and XR, the PluckyComicRelief RobotBuddy who spends much of his time getting blown up, crushed, dismembered and tortured in various ways- and none of the protagonists seem to care, despite the fact XR displays myriad human traits and emotions (having outbursts rivaling those of a hormonal 13-year-old girl) and has just as well-rounded a personality as any organic character on the show. As a result, a far amount of FanFic looks at him as [[TheWoobie a victim]]. It may just be because XR gets better every time. Still, he seems to feel ''pain'', and react to it [[ComedicSociopathy accordingly]].
8th Mar '18 10:49:08 AM ading
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Discussed in ''WesternAnimation/OverTheGardenWall''. In "Mad Love", Beatrice claims the group stole Fred the horse, but Wirt points out that Fred joined them voluntarily and, as a ''talking'' horse, he has the right to decide who he wants to work for.
13th Jan '18 10:41:41 PM Delphi
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Another cutaway has Peter squash a sentient talking spider [[DisproportionateRetribution for talking in the theater.]]
11th Jul '17 1:59:34 PM Chytus
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[Franchise/{{Transformers}} Optimus Prime]] has a very clear opinion on this, with his famous "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" motto. The series, though, have sometimes defined sentience in an unsatisfying way - [[OurSoulsAreDifferent not having a spark]] renders you a 'drone' even if said 'drone' clearly thinks and feels. In a non-canon series of ''WesternAnimation/TransformersAnimated'' comics (with a few OutOfCharacter moments, though mostly confined to Megatron being generically evil instead of a MagnificentBastard) Bumblebee is told by Optimus not to mourn for [[spoiler:Afterburn]] because he was a sparkless drone, and it's not clear who is right ([[spoiler:Afterburn]] appears to think and feel, and Bumblebee cared about him and it sure seems a {{Jerkass}} move to callously tell him that the friend he just saw torn in half was just a drone and thus not worth any worry, but he ''was'' a [[spoiler:Decepticon infiltrator, only pretending to be friends with Bee or ''anybody,'' was killed by Megatron in a YouHaveFailedMe moment, and could ''well'' have been acting according to the "make nice with the mark" programming you'd expect an advanced but nonsentient infiltration-bot to have. And since whether he was real or not, any friendship he had with the Autobots clearly wasn't, he kinda ''isn't'' worth crying over either way.]] Still, be nice to [[TheWoobie poor Bee]], huh?)
** In the original ''WesternAnimation/TheTransformers'', Optimus Prime uses a device called "Dominator Disks" to force the Constructicons to help him against their will. As TFwiki stats:
-->'''TFwiki:'''Prime sure goes along with the notion of enslaving one of his enemies pretty readily, huh? What happened to his ol' "Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings" schtick?

to:

** [[Franchise/{{Transformers}} Optimus Prime]] Prime has a very clear opinion on this, with his famous "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" motto. The series, though, have sometimes defined sentience in an unsatisfying way - [[OurSoulsAreDifferent not having a spark]] renders you a 'drone' even if said 'drone' clearly thinks and feels. In a non-canon series of ''WesternAnimation/TransformersAnimated'' comics (with a few OutOfCharacter moments, though mostly confined to Megatron being generically evil instead of a MagnificentBastard) Bumblebee is told by Optimus not to mourn for [[spoiler:Afterburn]] because he was a sparkless drone, and it's not clear who is right ([[spoiler:Afterburn]] appears to think and feel, and Bumblebee cared about him and it sure seems a {{Jerkass}} move to callously tell him that the friend he just saw torn in half was just a drone and thus not worth any worry, but he ''was'' a [[spoiler:Decepticon infiltrator, only pretending to be friends with Bee or ''anybody,'' was killed by Megatron in a YouHaveFailedMe moment, and could ''well'' have been acting according to the "make nice with the mark" programming you'd expect an advanced but nonsentient infiltration-bot to have. And since whether he was real or not, any friendship he had with the Autobots clearly wasn't, he kinda ''isn't'' worth crying over either way.]] Still, be nice to [[TheWoobie poor Bee]], huh?)
** In the original ''WesternAnimation/TheTransformers'', Optimus Prime uses a device called "Dominator Disks" to force the Constructicons to help him against their will. As TFwiki stats:
-->'''TFwiki:'''Prime
[=TFwiki=] states:
-->'''Wiki/TFWikiDotNet:'''Prime
sure goes along with the notion of enslaving one of his enemies pretty readily, huh? What happened to his ol' "Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings" schtick?



*** The Dinobots in ''Animated''. After the incident that gives them the ability to function on their own, Prowl is the only one to suspect that they're truly alive. They are huge, lumbering, and destructive, and Prowl is shocked when, after their defeat, Optimus Prime agrees with the decision to melt them down. [[spoiler: So he and Bulkhead sneak out in the middle of the night and transport the Dinobots to a forested island where, concealed by holograms, they can live peacefully.]] Later, [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Porter C. Powell]] argued that since Transformers have no legal status, it's not a crime to do anything to them. (He's a {{Jerkass}}, and we're not meant to agree with him.) Later, they use their lack of legal status to threaten (and eat) him with impunity. (Don't worry, Grimlock spits him back out unharmed; these are the ''Autobots'' we're talking about.)
*** It has more to do with the fact that Grimlock has good taste, and with all the hair product necessary to keep his rockin' mullet in place, Porter C. Powell probably tastes horrible.

to:

*** ** The Dinobots in ''Animated''. After the incident that gives them the ability to function on their own, Prowl is the only one to suspect that they're truly alive. They are huge, lumbering, and destructive, and Prowl is shocked when, after their defeat, Optimus Prime agrees with the decision to melt them down. [[spoiler: So he and Bulkhead sneak out in the middle of the night and transport the Dinobots to a forested island where, concealed by holograms, they can live peacefully.]] Later, [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Porter C. Powell]] argued that since Transformers have no legal status, it's not a crime to do anything to them. (He's a {{Jerkass}}, and we're not meant to agree with him.) Later, they use their lack of legal status to threaten (and eat) him with impunity. (Don't worry, Grimlock spits him back out unharmed; these are the ''Autobots'' we're talking about.)
*** It has more to do with the fact that Grimlock has good taste, and with all the hair product necessary to keep his rockin' mullet in place, Porter C. Powell probably tastes horrible.
)
8th Jul '17 2:38:16 PM CG-Druid
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The gargoyles in the series ''Gargoyles'' are also held by many humans for monsters, although there were in the entire series just two nasty gargoyles, but many evil humans.

to:

* The gargoyles in the series ''Gargoyles'' ''WesternAnimation/{{Gargoyles}}'' are also held by many humans for monsters, although there were in the entire series just two nasty gargoyles, but many evil humans.
22nd May '17 2:57:20 AM gophergiggles
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* A case of What Measure is a Non-Equine in the ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' episode "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS3E3TooManyPinkiePies Too Many Pinkie Pies]]". Some of them could talk, and the ones who couldn't talk could understand complex speech, but the ponies didn't even think twice about zapping them into oblivion. Needless to say, some of the FanArt and FanFiction about the episode is downright [[NightmareFuel terrifying]], with some fans going far enough to consider it the [[MoralEventHorizon most evil act in the entire series]].

to:

* A case of What Measure is a Non-Equine in the ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'' episode "[[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS3E3TooManyPinkiePies Too Many Pinkie Pies]]". Some of them could talk, and the ones who couldn't talk could still understand complex speech, they were fully capable of learning (particularly the first one that was around longer than the rest) and even felt emotions (again, the first one was devastated that she was missing "fun" events and the last one to be zapped looked [[https://derpibooru.org/450042 notably scared]]), but the ponies didn't even think twice about zapping them into oblivion. Needless to say, some of the FanArt and FanFiction about the episode is downright [[NightmareFuel terrifying]], with some fans going far enough to consider it the [[MoralEventHorizon most evil act in the entire series]]. A CallBack in a later episode showed that [[https://derpibooru.org/1159462 one escaped]] and has since gone on to make a life for herself in another town, seemingly cementing that they [[ReallyWasBornYesterday Really Were Born Yesterday]] rather than "mindless copies".
1st May '17 8:10:13 AM TrollMan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Still, the extent of carnage and violence in which Tartakovsky indulged under sole excuse of this trope is unsettling. It's not just that robots can be killed on-screen - they can be killed in ''horrifying'' ways on screen. They are burned, dissolved in acid, disemboweled in slow-mo, cannibalised and ''devoured alive by a huge monster''. At this they sometimes clearly express emotions, namely pain and horror, and other times they look exactly like living beings right until the moment of death.

to:

** Still, the extent of carnage and violence in which Tartakovsky indulged under sole excuse of this trope is unsettling. It's not just that robots can be killed on-screen - they can be killed in ''horrifying'' ways on screen. They are burned, dissolved in acid, disemboweled disembowelled in slow-mo, cannibalised cannibalized and ''devoured alive by a huge monster''. At this they sometimes clearly express emotions, namely pain and horror, and other times they look exactly like living beings right until the moment of death.death.
** However, in the DarkerAndEdgier fifth season revival, the trope is deconstructed, as Jack delivers a lethal blow on what he thinks is another one of Aku's robots, only to be shocked when blood spills out instead of oil. The mask of his assailant drops off and underneath is just a normal human being. He later struggles with the knowledge that he killed a real person, and has to convince himself that it's justifiable to kill people in self-defence. Later, the show's tendency to have a seemingly organic being turn out to be a robot when killed was inverted, with what the audience is led to believe is a robot is actually a man in a metal suit, but he still gets killed.
29th Apr '17 10:30:47 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** To be fair, the people in the movies are unaware of the appliances being alive. ThomasTheTankEngine, on the other hand...(see below).

to:

** To be fair, the people in the movies are unaware of the appliances being alive. ThomasTheTankEngine, WesternAnimation/ThomasTheTankEngine, on the other hand...(see below).
This list shows the last 10 events of 126. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WhatMeasureIsANonHuman.WesternAnimation