History WhatCouldHaveBeen / Literature

20th May '17 11:23:44 AM nombretomado
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* The ''Franchise/{{Ultima}}'' novels ''Ultima Saga: The Forge of Virtue'' and ''Ultima Saga: The Temper of Wisdom'' were going to be followed by a third book.

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* The ''Franchise/{{Ultima}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Ultima}}'' novels ''Ultima Saga: The Forge of Virtue'' and ''Ultima Saga: The Temper of Wisdom'' were going to be followed by a third book.
30th Apr '17 2:00:27 PM Pinokio
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* Jeff Green 's novel ''The Cudgel of Xanthor'' would have detailed the development process of the FictionalVideoGame series mentioned in the magazines ''Computer Gaming World'' and ''Games For Windows: The Official Magazine'', and chronicled the life of Xanthor in a fantasy world.

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* Jeff Green 's novel ''The Cudgel of Xanthor'' would have detailed the development process of the ''Xanthor'' FictionalVideoGame series mentioned in the magazines ''Computer Gaming World'' and ''Games For Windows: The Official Magazine'', and chronicled while chronicling the life of the character Xanthor in a fantasy world.
30th Apr '17 1:14:19 PM Pinokio
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Added DiffLines:

* Jeff Green 's novel ''The Cudgel of Xanthor'' would have detailed the development process of the FictionalVideoGame series mentioned in the magazines ''Computer Gaming World'' and ''Games For Windows: The Official Magazine'', and chronicled the life of Xanthor in a fantasy world.
25th Apr '17 11:34:05 AM leelea
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** ''Literature/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' introduced the idea of a "Lethifold", basically a murderous living blanket that would smother its victim and could only be defeated by using a Patronus (making it an obvious foe for Harry, since that's one of his best spells). This was revealed during the long wait for the latter books, and many people expected the Lethifold would show up, but in the end it never did.

to:

** ''Literature/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' introduced the idea of a "Lethifold", "Lethifold" -- basically a murderous living blanket that would smother its victim and could only be defeated by using a Patronus (making it an obvious foe for Harry, since that's the Patronus is one of his best spells). This was revealed during the long wait for the latter books, and many people expected the Lethifold would show up, up but in the end end, it never did.



*** ''A Dance With Dragons'' was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with ''The Winds of Winter'' to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became ''A Feast For Crows'' when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. The 7th book was -- and still is -- intended to be titled ''A Dream of Spring''.
*** Following all this, ADWD was meant to cover the other POV chapters, as well as going a little beyond into several plots left hanging or still intended to merge... Sadly, the book ended up ''still'' too long, and so some 200 pages were transferred to the start of TWOW - leaving us with a few unresolved climaxes and several characters not having chapters in that book despite Martin's intent. Currently, the 6th book is a WIP.
** After the fiasco caused by ''A Feast for Crows'' and ''A Dance with Dragons'', Martin has since commented on what he considers a "What ''Should'' Have Been - feeling the narrative should have been given a greater TimeSkip from Robert's Rebellion to the present, as he says that the younger characters (the surviving Stark and Baratheon children most of all) are too young for the plotlines he'd intended for them and that he needed to adjust his overall plans to accommodate them. This is a major reason the later books have taken so long to be completed as well as for the expansion - Bran in particular is very difficult to write, not being 10 yet but a POV character, and his arc has fewer chapters then most other POV characters; plus, all the books have moved slower than he intended in terms of plot progression, which was what necessitated the TimeSkip to ''begin'' with. GRRM admits that if he'd only made the younger characters older from the start, the books would likely have been finished satisfyingly by now - this is reflected in the TV Series, which gave the younger cast a 2-3 year AgeLift by means of a greater TimeSkip post-Rebellion, partly to avoid this problem and partly to get around child labor laws/nudity taboos, even if the narrative has a great many differences in adaptation.

to:

*** ''A Dance With Dragons'' was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with ''The Winds of Winter'' to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became ''A Feast For for Crows'' when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. The 7th book was -- and still is -- intended to be titled ''A Dream of Spring''.
*** Following all this, ADWD ''A Dance With Dragons'' was meant to cover the other POV chapters, as well as going a little beyond into several plots left hanging or still intended to merge... Sadly, the book ended up ''still'' too long, and so some 200 pages were transferred to the start of TWOW - ''The Winds of Winter'' -- leaving us with a few unresolved climaxes and several characters not having chapters in that book despite Martin's intent. Currently, the 6th book is a WIP.
** After the fiasco caused by ''A Feast for Crows'' and ''A Dance with Dragons'', Martin has since commented on what he considers a "What ''Should'' Have Been - Been" -- feeling the narrative should have been given a greater TimeSkip from Robert's Rebellion to the present, as he says that the younger characters (the surviving Stark and Baratheon children most of all) are too young for the plotlines he'd intended for them and that he needed to adjust his overall plans to accommodate them. This is a major reason the later books have taken so long to be completed as well as for the expansion - Bran in particular is very difficult to write, not being 10 yet but a POV character, and his arc has fewer chapters then most other POV characters; plus, all the books have moved slower than he intended in terms of plot progression, which was what necessitated the TimeSkip to ''begin'' with. GRRM admits that if he'd only made the younger characters older from the start, the books would likely have been finished satisfyingly by now - this is reflected in the TV Series, which gave the younger cast a 2-3 year AgeLift by means of a greater TimeSkip post-Rebellion, partly to avoid this problem and partly to get around child labor laws/nudity taboos, even if the narrative has a great many differences in adaptation.
25th Apr '17 11:28:03 AM leelea
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** Another huge aborted arc regards Theodore Nott. He's a Slytherin student in Harry's year that basically does nothing in the whole series. Originally, though, a chapter called "Malfoy and Nott" was going to be about Draco Malfoy and Theodore Nott talking and discussing the myths between the Death Eaters about The Boy Who Lived. The chapter would present Draco as talking to an equal, as Theodore's blood is as pure as his. Theodore himself was also going to be a recurring character, according to Rowling, he's a quiet student that doesn't get along with the rest of the Slytherin students and that didn't necessarily approve of their ideas. Fanwank has theorized that he could have been a TokenGoodTeammate of sorts. For those that felt the Slytherin students were excessively characterized as AlwaysChaoticEvil, this is a serious wasted plotline, if only to show a Slytherin student that wasn't a complete asshole. Rowling herself reportedly liked the scene so much and tried to use it both in Chamber of Secrets and later in Goblet of Fire, before finally giving up on it.

to:

** Another huge aborted arc regards Theodore Nott. He's a Slytherin student in Harry's year that basically does nothing in the whole series. Originally, though, a chapter called "Malfoy and Nott" was going to be about Draco Malfoy and Theodore Nott talking and discussing the myths between the Death Eaters about The Boy Who Lived. The chapter would present Draco as talking to an equal, as Theodore's blood is as pure as his. Theodore himself was also going to be a recurring character, according to Rowling, he's a quiet student that doesn't get along with the rest of the Slytherin students and that didn't necessarily approve of their ideas. Fanwank has theorized that he could have been a TokenGoodTeammate of sorts. For those that felt the Slytherin students were excessively characterized as AlwaysChaoticEvil, this is perceived as a serious seriously wasted plotline, if only to show a Slytherin student that wasn't a complete asshole. Rowling herself reportedly liked the scene so much and tried to use it both in Chamber of Secrets and later in Goblet of Fire, before finally giving up on it.



** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed -- Eddard Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:
*** The Red Wedding was intended, in the earliest stages, to be the climax of ''A Game of Thrones'': the other plot aspects were intended for the trilogy's 2nd and 3rd books. Once Ned Stark's arc overtook the 1st book's plot (it's hard to tell if he was always meant to be a POV character) and the other plots were more deeply fleshed out, ''A Clash of Kings'' was developed to cover the War of the Five Kings arc, likely with the Red Wedding intended to occur ''here'' as a climax -- it was GRRM's realizing just how much plot he still had that needed to breathe which led to him expanding the war and its immediate aftermath into ASOS, and the Red Wedding finally took place just over halfway through that book.

to:

** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng finding the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed -- Eddard Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:
*** The Red Wedding was intended, in the earliest stages, to be the climax of ''A Game of Thrones'': the other plot aspects were intended for the trilogy's 2nd and 3rd books. Once Ned Stark's arc overtook the 1st book's plot (it's hard to tell if he was always meant to be a POV character) and the other plots were more deeply fleshed out, ''A Clash of Kings'' was developed to cover the War of the Five Kings arc, likely with the Red Wedding intended to occur ''here'' as a climax -- it was GRRM's realizing just how much plot he still had that needed to breathe which led to him expanding the war and its immediate aftermath into ASOS, ''A Storm of Swords'', and the Red Wedding finally took place just over halfway through that book.
25th Apr '17 11:23:47 AM leelea
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** Also, in Jo's website one of the {{Easter Egg}}s shows an alternate plotline for Book 1, where Harry's parents had apparently stolen the Philosopher's Stone, which partly explains why the Potters were so rich.

to:

** Also, in Jo's website On Rowling's website, one of the {{Easter Egg}}s shows an alternate plotline for Book 1, where Harry's parents had apparently stolen the Philosopher's Stone, which partly explains why the Potters were so rich.



*** Dean/"Gary" actually was going to have his own subplot. Apparently his biological father was actually a wizard killed for refusing to join Voldemort; Dean's mother, however, just thought he abandoned her. This gets briefly alluded to in Book 7, but J.K. abandoned most of this back story in favor of [[TheUnchosenOne Neville's]], which ties in closer to Harry's story.

to:

*** Dean/"Gary" actually was going to have his own subplot. Apparently Apparently, his biological father was actually a wizard killed for refusing to join Voldemort; Dean's mother, however, just thought he abandoned her. This gets is briefly alluded to in Book 7, but J.K. Rowling abandoned most of this back story in favor of [[TheUnchosenOne Neville's]], which ties in closer to Harry's story.



** Hermione was planned to have a younger, Muggle sister. Eventually JK decided it was too late to introduce her, and Book 7 makes it clear that Hermione is an only child.

to:

** Hermione was planned to have a younger, Muggle sister. Eventually JK younger sister who is a muggle. Eventually, Rowling decided it was too late to introduce her, this character and Book 7 makes it clear that Hermione is an only child.



** In the epilogue of ''Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows'', J.K. admitted that she wanted Dudley to be at Platform 9 and 3/4 with a magic child. This was nixed, under the premise that "no magic would survive contact with Vernon Dursley's genes".

to:

** In the epilogue of ''Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows'', J.K. Rowling admitted that she wanted Dudley to be at Platform 9 and 3/4 with a magic child. This was nixed, under the premise that "no magic would survive contact with Vernon Dursley's genes".



** Another huge aborted arc regards Theodore Nott. He's a Slytherin student in Harry's year that basically does nothing in the whole series. Originally, though, a chapter called "Malfoy and Nott" was going to be about Draco Malfoy and Theodore Nott talking and discussing the myths between the Death Eaters about The Boy Who Lived. The chapter would present Draco as talking to an equal, as Theodore's blood is as pure as his. Theodore himself was also going to be a recurring character, according to JK he's a quiet student that doesn't get along with the rest of the Slytherin students and that didn't necessarily approve of their ideas. Fanwank has theorized that he could have been a TokenGoodTeammate of sorts. For those that felt the Slytherin students were excessively characterized as AlwaysChaoticEvil, this is a serious wasted plotline, if only to show a Slytherin student that wasn't a complete asshole. JK herself reportedly liked the scene so much and tried to use it both in Chamber of Secrets and later in Goblet of Fire, before finally giving up on it.

to:

** Another huge aborted arc regards Theodore Nott. He's a Slytherin student in Harry's year that basically does nothing in the whole series. Originally, though, a chapter called "Malfoy and Nott" was going to be about Draco Malfoy and Theodore Nott talking and discussing the myths between the Death Eaters about The Boy Who Lived. The chapter would present Draco as talking to an equal, as Theodore's blood is as pure as his. Theodore himself was also going to be a recurring character, according to JK Rowling, he's a quiet student that doesn't get along with the rest of the Slytherin students and that didn't necessarily approve of their ideas. Fanwank has theorized that he could have been a TokenGoodTeammate of sorts. For those that felt the Slytherin students were excessively characterized as AlwaysChaoticEvil, this is a serious wasted plotline, if only to show a Slytherin student that wasn't a complete asshole. JK Rowling herself reportedly liked the scene so much and tried to use it both in Chamber of Secrets and later in Goblet of Fire, before finally giving up on it.



** Recently, Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Benjen is implied to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but an anguished Jon and Benjen find themselves unable help their family because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one else in line and framing Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A Game of Thrones", where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.

to:

** Recently, Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Benjen is implied to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but an anguished Jon and Benjen find themselves unable help their family because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one everyone else ahead of him in line and framing for the throne, blaming Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A ''A Game of Thrones", Thrones'', where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however himself -- however, he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.
25th Apr '17 11:10:09 AM leelea
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* For a while, Creator/JRRTolkien was planning on naming the protagonist of ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' Bingo, son of Bilbo Baggins. Frodo Took might have been the name of one of his companions. Tolkien switched names a lot during the early stages of writing [=LotR=], so almost all characters in the Fellowship went through multiple names.
** In ''Literature/{{Unfinished Tales|of Numenor and Middleearth}}'', it's shown that Tolkien considered making Celeborn a Telerin elf rather than a Sindarin elf, and changing his name to the Telerin form: Teleporno. (Imagine the [[HaveAGayOldTime consequences]] if he had gone with that name...)

to:

* For a while, Creator/JRRTolkien was planning on naming the protagonist of ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' Bingo, son of Bilbo Baggins. Frodo Took might have been the name of one of his companions. Tolkien switched names a lot many times during the early stages of writing [=LotR=], so almost all characters in the Fellowship went through multiple names.
** In ''Literature/{{Unfinished Tales|of Numenor and Middleearth}}'', it's shown that Tolkien considered making Celeborn a Telerin elf rather than a Sindarin elf, and changing his name to the Telerin form: Teleporno. (Imagine Imagine the [[HaveAGayOldTime consequences]] if he had gone with that name...)



** Among the highlights of what Rowling cut from the series are a dandy named Pyrites working for Voldemort, Sirius in dog form being "adopted" by an eccentric dog-lover (replaced by him hiding out in a cave), Mafalda, a horrible cousin of the Weasley family who was to be sorted in Slytherin (replaced by Rita Skeeter), and Hermione's last name being "Puckle".

to:

** Among the highlights of what Rowling cut from the series are include a dandy named Pyrites working for Voldemort, Voldemort; Sirius in dog form being "adopted" by an eccentric dog-lover (replaced by him hiding (this would have replaced Sirius's plot of having to hide out in a cave), cave); Mafalda, a horrible cousin of the Weasley family who was to be sorted in Slytherin (replaced (a character replaced by Rita Skeeter), Skeeter); and Hermione's last name being "Puckle".



** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed -- Eddark Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:

to:

** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed -- Eddark Eddard Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:



*** ''A Dance With Dragons'' was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with "The Winds of Winter" to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became "A Feast For Crows" when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. the 7th book was - and still is - intended to be titled "A Dream of Spring"

to:

*** ''A Dance With Dragons'' was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with "The ''The Winds of Winter" Winter'' to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became "A ''A Feast For Crows" Crows'' when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. the The 7th book was - -- and still is - -- intended to be titled "A ''A Dream of Spring"Spring''.



** Recently, Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Benjen does not perished in this outline; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but an anguished Jon and Benjen cannot help them because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one else in line and framing Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A Game of Thrones", where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.

to:

** Recently, Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Benjen does not perished in this outline; is implied to be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but an anguished Jon and Benjen cannot find themselves unable help them their family because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one else in line and framing Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A Game of Thrones", where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.



** ''Through The Looking Glass'' had a chapter called "The Wasp In The Wig" shelved because illustrator John Tenniel claimed it was impossible to draw. (A draft of this chapter recently resurfaced and has been published in Martin Gardner's annotated edition.)

to:

** ''Through The Looking Glass'' had a chapter called "The Wasp In The Wig" shelved because illustrator John Tenniel claimed it was impossible to draw. (A A draft of this chapter recently resurfaced and has been published in Martin Gardner's annotated edition.)
25th Apr '17 10:50:33 AM leelea
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** The character of Arwen was introduced very late in the game. Originally Aragorn was to marry Éowyn, then Tolkien decided Éowyn should die and Aragorn never marry because he didn't get over his grief. Tolkien's wife convinced him not to kill Éowyn, so Arwen came into being. (This is part of why her and Aragorn's story is included in the Appendices rather than the book itself.) This created a fair amount of FanWank even when the books first came out, with some wishing he'd married Éowyn as originally planned.

to:

** The character of Arwen was introduced very late in the game. Originally Originally, Aragorn was to marry Éowyn, then Tolkien decided Éowyn should die and Aragorn never marry because he didn't get over his grief. Tolkien's wife convinced him not to kill Éowyn, so Arwen came into being. (This being (this is part of why her and Aragorn's story is included in the Appendices rather than the book itself.) itself). This created a fair amount of FanWank even when the books first came out, with some wishing he'd married Éowyn as originally planned.



* ''Literature/HarryPotter'': Creator/JKRowling planned to kill off Arthur Weasley in the [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows final book]] after she put off killing him in ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix Order of the Phoenix]]''. (A remnant of this can be seen in the attack on him by Voldemort, which he survives. Rowling's reported outburst into tears over the character killed in this book may have actually been over Arthur, and in the end she couldn't bring herself to do it.) She changed her mind, "making up for it" by [[DroppedABridgeOnHim killing]] [[spoiler:Lupin and Tonks]] instead.

to:

* ''Literature/HarryPotter'': Creator/JKRowling planned to kill off Arthur Weasley in the [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows final book]] after she put off killing him in ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix Order of the Phoenix]]''. (A Phoenix]]'' (a remnant of this can be seen in the attack on him by Voldemort, which he survives. Rowling's reported outburst into tears over the character killed in this book may have actually been over Arthur, and in the end she couldn't bring herself to do it.) it). She changed her mind, "making up for it" by [[DroppedABridgeOnHim killing]] [[spoiler:Lupin and Tonks]] instead.



** The ARG site "Pottermore" is loaded with Rowling's "ghost ideas," pieces of the series' world that she fully considers canon but never found a place to put in the books. Professor [=McGonagall=]'s surprisingly tragic backstory has gotten one of the biggest fan responses.

to:

** The ARG site "Pottermore" is loaded with Rowling's "ghost ideas," ideas" -- pieces of the series' world that she fully considers canon but never found a place to be put in into the books. Professor [=McGonagall=]'s surprisingly tragic backstory has gotten one of the biggest fan responses.



** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed - Eddark Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:
*** The Red Wedding was intended, in the earliest stages, to be the climax of AGOT: the other plot aspects were intended for the trilogy's 2nd and 3rd books. Once Ned Stark's arc overtook the 1st book's plot (it's hard to tell if he was always meant to be a POV character) and the other plots were more deeply fleshed out, ACOK was developed to cover the War of the Five Kings arc, likely with the RW intended to occur ''here'' as a climax - it was GRRM's realizing just how much plot he still had that needed to breathe which led to him expanding the war and its immediate aftermath into ASOS, and the Red Wedding finally took place just over halfway through that book.
*** "A Dance With Dragons" was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with "The Winds of Winter" to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became "A Feast For Crows" when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. the 7th book was - and still is - intended to be titled "A Dream of Spring"

to:

** However, once the story came into shape as a fantasy-based tale (beyond the initial setup of a young boy seeing a man beheaded and then findng the direwolf pups in the snow), one thing ''never'' changed - -- Eddark Stark and his eldest son Robb were ''always'' intended to die, specifically in defiance of audience expectations that Ned would be TheHero; once he went the way of DisappearedDad, Robb would ''look'' like TheHero, only to be killed off instead of avenging his father, so the audience wouldn't assume that was the story's focus. On that:
*** The Red Wedding was intended, in the earliest stages, to be the climax of AGOT: ''A Game of Thrones'': the other plot aspects were intended for the trilogy's 2nd and 3rd books. Once Ned Stark's arc overtook the 1st book's plot (it's hard to tell if he was always meant to be a POV character) and the other plots were more deeply fleshed out, ACOK ''A Clash of Kings'' was developed to cover the War of the Five Kings arc, likely with the RW Red Wedding intended to occur ''here'' as a climax - -- it was GRRM's realizing just how much plot he still had that needed to breathe which led to him expanding the war and its immediate aftermath into ASOS, and the Red Wedding finally took place just over halfway through that book.
*** "A ''A Dance With Dragons" Dragons'' was the working title for the 4th book when the time progression ideas were intended to be used, with "The Winds of Winter" to follow (the working title for the final book as "A Time For Wolves"). Book 4 became "A Feast For Crows" when the plot was adjusted, because the title better suited the events of the book: showing the repercussions of the War on Westeros and how the land was far from recovering from the devastation of War, although any plans to hint at the plans of the Others (who loom in the background still) were discarded when the POV split happened. the 7th book was - and still is - intended to be titled "A Dream of Spring"



** After the fiasco caused by AFFC and ADWD, Martin has since commented on what he considers a "What ''Should'' Have Been - feeling the narrative should have been given a greater TimeSkip from Robert's Rebellion to the present, as he says that the younger characters (the surviving Stark and Baratheon children most of all) are too young for the plotlines he'd intended for them and that he needed to adjust his overall plans to accommodate them. This is a major reason the later books have taken so long to be completed as well as for the expansion - Bran in particular is very difficult to write, not being 10 yet but a POV character, and his arc has fewer chapters then most other POV characters; plus, all the books have moved slower than he intended in terms of plot progression, which was what necessitated the TimeSkip to ''begin'' with. GRRM admits that if he'd only made the younger characters older from the start, the books would likely have been finished satisfyingly by now - this is reflected in the TV Series, which gave the younger cast a 2-3 year AgeLift by means of a greater TimeSkip post-Rebellion, partly to avoid this problem and partly to get around child labor laws/nudity taboos, even if the narrative has a great many differences in adaptation.
** Recently Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but being turned away by Jon because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one else in line and framing Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A Game of Thrones", where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.

to:

** After the fiasco caused by AFFC ''A Feast for Crows'' and ADWD, ''A Dance with Dragons'', Martin has since commented on what he considers a "What ''Should'' Have Been - feeling the narrative should have been given a greater TimeSkip from Robert's Rebellion to the present, as he says that the younger characters (the surviving Stark and Baratheon children most of all) are too young for the plotlines he'd intended for them and that he needed to adjust his overall plans to accommodate them. This is a major reason the later books have taken so long to be completed as well as for the expansion - Bran in particular is very difficult to write, not being 10 yet but a POV character, and his arc has fewer chapters then most other POV characters; plus, all the books have moved slower than he intended in terms of plot progression, which was what necessitated the TimeSkip to ''begin'' with. GRRM admits that if he'd only made the younger characters older from the start, the books would likely have been finished satisfyingly by now - this is reflected in the TV Series, which gave the younger cast a 2-3 year AgeLift by means of a greater TimeSkip post-Rebellion, partly to avoid this problem and partly to get around child labor laws/nudity taboos, even if the narrative has a great many differences in adaptation.
** Recently Recently, Martin unveiled some of his earliest plans for the series. Some of the larger changes include a LoveTriangle between Jon Snow, Arya and Tyrion; Sansa becoming pregnant with Joffrey's child; Benjen does not perished in this outline; Catelyn taking her children to the Night's Watch for protection, but being turned away by an anguished Jon and Benjen cannot help them because of the Watch's neutrality; and Jaime becoming king by murdering every one else in line and framing Tyrion for the murders. Elements of this still remain in "A Game of Thrones", where it is hinted Jaime may be planning to take the Iron Throne himself, however he eventually becomes a more sympathetic character.



* Creator/DavidWeber's ''Literature/HonorHarrington'' was originally going to be timeskipped several decades, following the death of its namesake character. Her children would have continued the action. His Eric Flint collaboration ''Crown of Slaves'' nixed this original plan; its espionage plot ended up fast-forwarding the conflict by putting pressure on [[spoiler: the Mesans]] (spoiler probably unnecessary) to enact their plan early. As a happy side effect, Honor was spared, cutting off what would probably have been the greatest [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks fan rebellion]] in modern Sci-Fi literature.

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* Creator/DavidWeber's ''Literature/HonorHarrington'' was originally going to be timeskipped time-skipped several decades, following the death of its namesake character. Her children would have continued the action. His Eric Flint collaboration ''Crown of Slaves'' nixed this original plan; its espionage plot ended up fast-forwarding the conflict by putting pressure on [[spoiler: the Mesans]] (spoiler probably unnecessary) to enact their plan early. As a happy side effect, Honor was spared, cutting off what would probably have been the greatest [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks fan rebellion]] in modern Sci-Fi literature.



** ''Literature/SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish'' originally featured Arthur trying to remember where God's Last Message is by jumping off a cliff so his [[MyLifeFlashedBeforeMyEyes life would flash before his eyes]], thereby realising how [[ArcWelding all the events of the previous books fitted together]], and deliberately heading back to Earth. New characters would include a man with a skill at opening oysters and "a Brockian Ultra-Walrus with an embarassing past". The walrus was largely there simply because there was one on the cover (don't blame the publisher for the cover being done before the book was written, by the way, blame Adams's attitude to deadlines).

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** ''Literature/SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish'' originally featured Arthur trying to remember where God's Last Message is by jumping off a cliff so his [[MyLifeFlashedBeforeMyEyes life would flash before his eyes]], thereby realising how [[ArcWelding all the events of the previous books fitted together]], and deliberately heading back to Earth. New characters would include a man with a skill at opening oysters and "a Brockian Ultra-Walrus with an embarassing embarrassing past". The walrus was largely there simply because there was one on the cover (don't blame the publisher for the cover being done before the book was written, by the way, blame Adams's attitude to deadlines).
24th Apr '17 7:35:10 PM nombretomado
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* The first installment of ''Literature/TheRailwaySeries'' "The Three Railway Engines" was intended to have only three stories. Henry's railway would have been disconnected from Edward and Gordon's and he would have supposedly have been left stuck in the tunnel permanently. Publishers agreed to releasing the book, on the condition Rev. W. Awdry made a fourth story in which the three engines met (thus establishing the Sodor North Railway) and Henry was released and got a happy ending. Had this stipulation not went through who knows what changes this would have made on the novels' continuity or [[ThomasTheTankEngine the television series that stemmed from it]].

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* The first installment of ''Literature/TheRailwaySeries'' "The Three Railway Engines" was intended to have only three stories. Henry's railway would have been disconnected from Edward and Gordon's and he would have supposedly have been left stuck in the tunnel permanently. Publishers agreed to releasing the book, on the condition Rev. W. Awdry made a fourth story in which the three engines met (thus establishing the Sodor North Railway) and Henry was released and got a happy ending. Had this stipulation not went through who knows what changes this would have made on the novels' continuity or [[ThomasTheTankEngine [[WesternAnimation/ThomasTheTankEngine the television series that stemmed from it]].
8th Apr '17 11:02:21 AM nombretomado
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* The first installment of ''TheRailwaySeries'' "The Three Railway Engines" was intended to have only three stories. Henry's railway would have been disconnected from Edward and Gordon's and he would have supposedly have been left stuck in the tunnel permanently. Publishers agreed to releasing the book, on the condition Rev. W. Awdry made a fourth story in which the three engines met (thus establishing the Sodor North Railway) and Henry was released and got a happy ending. Had this stipulation not went through who knows what changes this would have made on the novels' continuity or [[ThomasTheTankEngine the television series that stemmed from it]].

to:

* The first installment of ''TheRailwaySeries'' ''Literature/TheRailwaySeries'' "The Three Railway Engines" was intended to have only three stories. Henry's railway would have been disconnected from Edward and Gordon's and he would have supposedly have been left stuck in the tunnel permanently. Publishers agreed to releasing the book, on the condition Rev. W. Awdry made a fourth story in which the three engines met (thus establishing the Sodor North Railway) and Henry was released and got a happy ending. Had this stipulation not went through who knows what changes this would have made on the novels' continuity or [[ThomasTheTankEngine the television series that stemmed from it]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WhatCouldHaveBeen.Literature