History WhatAnIdiot / TheLordOFTheRings

* After defeating Sarumon and getting his hand on the ring Isuldur is led to the volcano where the ring can be destroyed by Elrond, but he has been corrupted by it already and refuses to destroy it. \\
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond, who has not been effected by the ring, to do whatever he can to get it away from Isuldur and throw it into the fire where it can be destroyed. \\
'''Instead:''' Elrond just lets Isuldur walk away, with just one scream of impotent protest.

'''Possibly:''' The Ring had been messing with Boromir's head for a while so by this point he may no longer have been thinking straight.

'''Instead''': He leaves it behind at camp. And unfortunately, the Uruk Hai launch a surprise attack on the Fellowship and he doesn't even go back for his shield quickly, and when he tries to go save Merry and Pippin, he is left defenseless against Lurtz's bow and arrow attacks, [[KilledOffForReal and is killed from the arrows as a result of it]].

'''Or at least:''' The Rohirrim to go inside the ruined city walls where the Mumakil cease to be a tactical advantage.\\

* During the flashback of Elrond after the battle near Mt. Doom, he and Isuldur go to the Crack of Doom to destroy the one Ring. He tells Isuldur to "Destroy it!", but Isuldur gets corrupted by the Ring, says, [[LittleNo "No..."]], and begins leaving Mt. Doom.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to stop Isuldur from leaving Mt. Doom, take the Ring from him (doing this non lethally, course) and cast the Ring into the fire himself, ending all evil (granted, this might not work, because of the Ring's influence, but Elrond hadn't held the Ring at all yet, so I'm sure he could resist long enough to throw it in quickly!). Problem solved, the end.\\
'''Instead''': He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mt Doom without even trying to stop him (non lethally)! And this is not the only act of stupidity Elrond does.

[[folder: Applies to the whole trilogy]]
* The eagles are brought up a lot. And there is a reason why it is even on this page. After the Fellowship of the Ring is formed at Rivendell, the heroes must then set out to Mt. Doom.\\
'''You'd Expect''': The Fellowship to use the eagles to fly to someplace near Mordor, and then from there go stealthily to Mt. Doom quickly and more efficiently, then destroy the One Ring, and bring the enemy down. [[note]] By now, the eagles have already interfered in a couple of our world's affairs (once in The Hobbit, and the other time in ''Fellowship of the Ring'' when one of the eagles goes to save Gandalf from Saruman at Orthanc), despite being eagle gods, and plus they eventually got as far as the Black Gate near Mordor in ''The Return of the King'', despite the evils being pretty great.[[/note]]\\
'''Instead''': They set out on foot, and don't even think of using horses to ride on (the one horse they bring just carries the supplies and tools). Unfortunately, they meet obstacle after obstacle; one of them, gets one of the members KilledOffForReal. Even with counterpoints such as "The eagles stick out too much, a sneak attack makes more sense in the grand scheme of things.", how many times do Sam and Frodo get spotted, captured, and/or injured?
[[/folder]]

[[folder: Applies to the whole trilogy]]
* The eagles are brought up a lot. And there is a reason why it is even on this page. After the Fellowship of the Ring is formed at Rivendell, the heroes must then set out to Mt. Doom.\\
'''You'd Expect''': The Fellowship to use the eagles to fly to someplace near Mordor, and then from there go stealthily to Mt. Doom quickly and more efficiently, then destroy the One Ring, and bring the enemy down. [[note]] By now, the eagles have already interfered in a couple of our world's affairs (once in The Hobbit, and the other time in ''Fellowship of the Ring'' when one of the eagles goes to save Gandalf from Saruman at Orthanc), despite being eagle gods, and plus they eventually got as far as the Black Gate near Mordor in ''The Return of the King'', despite the evils being pretty great.[[/note]]\\
'''Instead''': They set out on foot, and don't even think of using horses to ride on (the one horse they bring just carries the supplies and tools). Unfortunately, they meet obstacle after obstacle; one of them, gets one of the members KilledOffForReal. Even with counterpoints such as "The eagles stick out too much, a sneak attack makes more sense in the grand scheme of things.", how many times do Sam and Frodo get spotted, captured, and/or injured?
[[/folder]]

'''Instead''': He reaches his arm out to Isuldur, intending to grab him and burn him, but is too slow about, and Isuldur cuts Sauron's fingers off, including the one with the Ring. It leads to Sauron's body blowing up, and he ends up (after the Ring continued to exist) existing as a flaming eyeball over Bara-Du.

'''Instead:''' Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone, "Prepare for battle!".\\

'''You'd Expect''': The Fellowship to use the eagles to fly to someplace near Mordor, and then from there go stealthily to Mt. Doom quickly and more efficiently, then destroy the One Ring, and bring the enemy down. [[labelnote]] By now, the eagles have already interfered in a couple of our world's affairs (once in The Hobbit, and the other time in ''Fellowship of the Ring'' when one of the eagles goes to save Gandalf from Saruman at Orthanc; and plus they eventually got as far as the Black Gate near Mordor, despite the evils being pretty great.[[/labelnote]]\\

'''You'd ''Then'' Expect (!!)''': The soldiers of the guard to go, "YoureInsane" and[=/=]or "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially since if you end up helping your leader kill himself, you are left leaderless.\\

'''You'd THEN Expect''': The captain of the guard (or one of the other guards) to listen Pippin yelling the fact that Faramir isn't dead, and stop to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about your son not being dead)?", and then order the guards not carry out the order light the pyre.\\
'''Instead (!!!)''': Everybody in the room that's not Denethor, including the guards (including the captain) completely ignore Pippin like brainless, deaf morons while he yelling "HE'S NOT DEAD!!" as he's dragged out and thrown out of the room by Denethor, and don't even ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about Faramir not being dead)?"!\\

'''Instead (!!!!)''': He ''immediately'' gives up and wastes precious time going down several level of Minas Tirath looking for Gandalf. While he ''does'' manage to find Gandalf in time, but still, if he hadn't found Gandalf in time, Pippin would've been too late to save Faramir!

* The eagles are brought up a lot. And there is a reason why it is even on this page. After the Fellowship of the Ring is formed at Rivendell, the heroes must then set out to Mt. Doom
'''You'd Expect''': The Fellowship to use the eagles to fly to someplace near Mordor, and then from there go stealthily to Mt. Doom quickly and more efficiently, then destroy the One Ring, and bring the enemy down. [[labelnote]] By now, the eagles have already interfered in a couple of our world's affairs (once in The Hobbit, and the other time in ''Fellowship of the Ring'' when one of the eagles goes to save Gandalf from Saruman at Orthanc; and plus they eventually got as far as the Black Gate near Mordor, despite the evils being pretty great.[[/labelnote]]
'''Instead''': They set out on foot, and don't even think of using horses to ride on (the one horse they bring just carries the supplies and tools). Unfortunately, they meet obstacle after obstacle; one of them, gets one of the members KilledOffForReal. Even with counterpoints such as "The eagles stick out too much, a sneak attack makes more sense.", how many times do Sam and Frodo get spotted, captured, and/or injured?

[[[folder: The Return of the King]]

[[/folder]]

->''"Fool of a Took! Throw yourself in next time, and rid us of your stupidity. "''

[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]

[[AC: The Two Towers]]

* After Gandalf has removed the spell on Theoden and he's back to normal, Saruman no longer has any power over Rohan and [[TreacherousAdvisor Grima Wormtongue]] is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps). When Theoden goes to kill Grima, Aragorn stops him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled on [Grima's] account".\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to imprison Wormtongue to stop him from returning to Saruman with vital information.\\
'''Instead''': They let Wormtongue escape back to Saruman without even trying to stop him. As a result, Grima tells Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the Battle of Helms Deep, which kills hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children.

[[AC: The Return of the King]]

'''Instead (!!)''': They continue blindly following Denethor's orders without question like yes men like its the right thing to do (what?!?), despite that he has clearly lost his mind, ''and'' not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir!\\

'''You'd THEN Expect''': The captain of the guard to listen Pippin yelling the fact that Faramir isn't dead, and stop to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about your son not being dead)?", and then order the guards not carry out the order light the pyre.\\

'''You'd ''THEN'' Expect''': Pippin to open the doors, which aren't locked, and try to convince the captain of the guard, or one of the guards, and put some sense into him, which would maybe cause him to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about Faramir not being dead)?", and stop this madness without anyone getting hurt or killed.\\
'''Instead (!!!!)''': He gives up and wastes precious time looking for Gandalf. And it's only by luck does he manage to find Gandalf in time, if he hadn't found Gandalf in time, Pippin would've been too late to save Faramir!

'''Instead''': He does nothing of that sort, and Gandalf grabs a spear from the nearest guard (who for some reason, ''doesn't'' stop him) and knocks Denethor off the pyre, allowing Pippin to push Faramir's body off the pyre and save him from being burned to death. When Denethor threatens to do something terrible to Pippin while yelling, "You will not take my son from me!", he gets knocked into the pyre by Gandalf's horse, and gets set on fire, and runs all the way out and jumps to demise.

'''Instead:''' [[HollywoodTactics Theoden has the entire host of Rohan charge the Mumakil]], and we're treated to a montage of them getting trampled, sent flying by the Mumakils' tusks, or shot by the Harad archers riding the Mumakil. [[spoiler:Ironically, this bout of stupidity doesn't get Theoden killed; it's the Witch King who does him in.]]

'''You'd Think''': Saruman would summon an fireball (like how he does in the Extended Edition of ''Return of the King'') and kill the eagle by burning it, along with Gandalf, so that he can't escape.\\

'''Instead''': He urges them to leave Middle Earth within the hour. The film version of Elrond is quite an idiot compared to the book version.
** And then there is Bilbo, 129 years old, who seemingly is left alone at Rivendell when the Elves just leave like that. Never mentioned, never missed.

'''After That''':Pippin gets thrown out of the Tomb of the Stewards, with him being fired by Denethor, who tells him "Go now and die in what way seems best for you.", and then closes the doors, but doesn't lock them.\\

'''You'd Think''': Saruman would summo an fireball (like how he does in the Extended Edition of ''Return of the King'') and kill the eagle by burning it, along with Gandalf, so that he can't escape.\\

'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to stop Isuldur from leaving Mt. Doom, take the Ring from him (doing this non lethally, course) and cast the Ring into the fire himself, ending all evil (granted, this might not work, because of the Ring's influence, but Elrond hadn't held the Ring at all yet, so I'm sure he could resist enough to throw it in quickly!) Problem solved, the end.\\

'''You'd Think''': Saruman would summon fireball (like how he does in the Extended Edition of ''Return of the King'') and kill the eagle by burning it, along with Gandalf, so that he can't escape.\\

'''The Result:''' The Ringwraiths attack the Hobbits and Frodo gets impaled by the Witch King's blade, and is nearly killed as a result of it.

'''Instead:''' [[HollywoodTactics Theoden has the entire host of Rohan charge the Mumakil]], and we're treated to a montage of them getting trampled, sent flying by the Mumakils' tusks, or shot by the Harad archers riding the Mumakil. [[spoiler:Ironically, this bout of stupidity doesn't get Theoden killed; it's the Witch King who does him in.]]

* Finally, the eagles.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' The Fellowship to use the eagles to fly to someplace near Mordor. That way, they could reach Mt Doom very quickly to destroy the One Ring and bring the enemy down.\\
'''Instead:''' The Fellowship (and to the extension, after the break up, just Frodo and Sam) go on foot, which takes days and days, obstacle after obstacle, to get to Mount Doom, which makes the stakes very high. And it's only by [[LuckBasedMission pure luck]] does this plan work.

** The WebVideo/CinemaSins narrator even brought this up in the ''Everything Wrong With The Fellowship of the Ring'':
-->''' ''CinemaSins'' Narrator''': What the f**k is Sauron reaching for? Just kill the guy! You have this huge mace... FOR KILLING.

* After Gandalf gets held captive at the top of Orthanc, Saruman's tower, Gandalf manages to have the moth go get one of the eagles to come and help him escape, which he does later. Saruman is at the top of the tower at the time.\\
'''You'd Think''': Saruman would use his magic to maybe summon a lightning strike or a fireball or something and kill the eagle, along with Gandalf, so that he can't escape.\\
'''Instead''': He just lets him go and makes no attempt to stop him from escaping with the fact that Saruman has allied with Sauron.

'''You'd Expect:''' Pippin or one of the other soldiers in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the House of Healings, and have him recover, saving his life. \\

'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to stop Isuldur from leaving Mt. Doom, take the Ring from him (doing this non lethally, course) and cast the Ring into the fire himself, ending all evil granted, this might not have actually worked, because of the Ring's influence, but Elrond hadn't held the Ring at all yet, so I'm sure he could resist enough to throw it in quickly!) Problem solved, the end.\\

'''After That''': When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his members of the citadel guard, "Bring wood and oil."\\

'''Instead (!!)''': They continue blindly following Denethor's orders without question like yes men who think their boss is always right, despite that he has clearly lost his mind, ''and'' not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir!\\

You'd THEN Expect: The captain of the guard to listen Pippin yelling the fact that Faramir isn't dead, and stop to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about your son not being dead)?", and then order the guards not carry out the order light the pyre.\\

'''You'd Expect''': Sam to go "screw it", and still accompany Frodo. After all, like he said at the end of the first movie, "Don't you leave him, Samwise Gangee"!\\

'''Instead:''' The Fellowship (and to the extension, after the break up, just Frodo and Sam) go on foot, which takes days and days, obstacle after obstacle, to get to Mount Doom, which makes the stakes very high. And it's only by [[LuckBasedMission pure luck]] does this plan work.

* During the flashback of Elrond after the battle near Mt. Doom, he and Isuldur go to the Crack of Doom to destroy the one Ring. He tells Isuldur to "Destroy it!", but Isuldur gets corrupted by the Ring, says, [[LittleNo "No..."]], and begins leaving Mt. Doom.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to stop Isuldur from leaving Mt. Doom, take the Ring from him (doing this non lethally, course) and cast the Ring into the fire himself, ending all evil. Problem solved, the end.\\
'''Instead''': He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mt Doom without even trying to stop him (non lethally)! And this is not the only act of stupidity Elrond does.

* Elrond and the household of Rivendell decides to leave for the Grey Havens ''in the middle of war'', complete with ritual lanterns glowing in the dark and almost no visible armor or weapons. ''At night!''
** '''You`d expect''': Elrond to be a mite more strategic, knowing full well that the area around Rivendell is swarming with Orcs (who attack in the dark), and to just wait it out until the whole thing is over.
** '''Instead''': He urges them to leave Middle Earth within the hour. The film version of Elrond is quite an idiot compared to the book version.
*** And then there is Bilbo, 129 years old, who seemingly is left alone at Rivendell when the Elves just leave like that. Never mentioned, never missed.

'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath, which leads to disastrous results.
** Faramir's attempt to retake Osgiliath ends in failure with the entire unit wiped out, except for Faramir and his horse. Faramir is knocked unconscious from a poisoned arrow, however Denethor gets greatly upset and thinks he's dead. Pippin however notices he's still kicking, but needs medicine, and says, "He needs medicine, my lord."\\

'''Instead:''' Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone, "Prepare for battle!".
** Since Denethor is knocked out, this leaves Faramir's unconscious body unattended.\\

'''Instead (!):''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin himself said that he needed medicine and everybody, including Pippin, who runs off to join the defense of Minas Tirath, leave his body unattended, and they don't get Denethor away and put him somewhere where he wouldn't have access to Faramir's KO'd body. Unfortunately, this becomes a waste of time for Pippin, who ends up having to go back to the citadel on Gandalf's request. But by then, Denethor regains consciousness, and he still takes Faramir's unconscious body to burn himself and Faramir in the Tomb of the Stewards!
*** It was also brought up by the WebVideo/CinemaSins narrator in ''EWW Return of the King'':
-->''' ''CinemaSins'' Narrator''': Let me get this straight, so after Gandalf knocked Denethor unconscious, no one decided to get Faramir any medicine? They didn't just leave him outside in the white tree court, did they?
** When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his members of the citadel guard, "Bring wood and oil."\\
'''You'd Then Expect (!!)''': The soldiers of the guard to go, "YoureInsane" and[=/=]or "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially since if you end up helping your leader kill himself, you are left leaderless.\\

'''...Or even:''' If neither the above, when Pippin comes in, yelling "HE'S NOT DEAD!", the captain of the guard to at least not ignore Pippin yelling the fact that Faramir isn't dead, and stop to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about your son not being dead)?", and then order the guards not carry out the order light the pyre.\\
'''Instead (!!)''': They continue blindly following Denethor's orders without question, despite that he has clearly lost his mind, ''and'' not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir! And the guards (including the captain) and everybody else completely ignore Pippin like brainless, deaf morons while he yelling "HE'S NOT DEAD!!" as he's dragged out and thrown out of the room by Denethor, and don't even ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about Faramir not being dead)?"!
*** Even worse, in the book, one of the members of the guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the guard who ''didn't''.
** Pippin gets thrown out of the Tomb of the Stewards, with him being fired by Denethor, who tells him "Go now and die in what way seems best for you.", and then closes the doors, but doesn't lock them.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Pippin to open the doors, which aren't locked, and try to convince the captain of the guard, or one of the guards, and put some sense into him, which would maybe cause him to ask Denethor, "Sir, what if he's right (about Faramir not being dead)?", and stop this madness without anyone getting hurt or killed.\\
'''Instead (!!!)''': He gives up and wastes precious time looking for Gandalf. And it's only by luck does he manage to find Gandalf in time, if he hadn't found Gandalf in time, Pippin would've been too late to save Faramir!

** '''Instead''': He urges them to leave Middle Earth within the hour. The film version of Elrond is quite an idiot compared to the book version.

** '''You`d expect''': Elrond to be a mite more strategic, knowing full well that the area around Rivendell is swarming with Orcs (who attack in the dark, and to just wait it out until the whole thing is over.

'''You`d expect''': Elrond to be a mite more strategic, knowing full well that the area around Rivendell is swarming with Orcs (who attack in the dark, and to just wait it out until the whole thing is over.
'''Instead''': He urges them to leave Middle Earth within the hour. The film version of Elrond is quite an idiot compared to the book version.