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[[WMG: The Genocide Route takes place after the Flawed Pacifist Ending.]]
This explain Flowey's claims at the of the Genocide Route when he says he knows how it ends. He decided to reset after Clover died at Asgore's hands, not knowing he subsconsciously remembers the captured souls and murderous intent, thus making him focused on his original mission and the corruption of his trait of JUSTICE is retained, considered he killed Ceroba out of revenge and wanted to do the same to Asgore.
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It's Kanakover
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[[WMG: If there is any sort of substantial update to the game, it will center around Kanako and the True Lab.]]
Despite Kanako being built up a lot during Ceroba's arc during the Pacifist route, as well as the other routes seemingly hinting towards the True Lab's contents during their endings, neither of them play any sort of factor in the Pacifist ending, leading to something feeling missing. ''If'' the game gets any major update, it's possible that Kanako and the True Lab could be elaborated upon more to tie up any loose ends, especially concerning whether or not Kanako is even alive.
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Spelling/grammar fix(es)
Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
Isn't it possible Flowey saw the new human arrive and immediately saw the opportunity to let something new happen? We don't know what exactly Toriel's and Flowey's relationship is at this time, because we don't see them interact, but if Flowey is still the same sweet-faced sociopath we know from the original Undertale, she most likely wouldn't want him near Clover. So he somehow disables the lever and makes the ground give way under them, to separate them from Toriel and gain their trust by making himself appear as a kind, friendly guide.
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Isn't it possible Flowey saw the new human arrive and immediately saw the opportunity to let something new happen? We don't know what exactly Toriel's and Flowey's relationship is at this time, because we don't see them interact, but if Flowey is still the same sweet-faced sociopath we know from the original Undertale, ''Undertale'', she most likely wouldn't want him near Clover. So he somehow disables the lever and makes the ground give way under them, to separate them from Toriel and gain their trust by making himself appear as a kind, friendly guide.
Changed line(s) 10,11 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Confirmed in the neutral ending. Flowey had already witnessed Clover's actions through hundreds of resets, and when he manipulated them into attempting to reach Asgore they kept on dying in the main Underground, so he rigged the Ruins switch to set Clover on a different path]].
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* [[spoiler:Confirmed in the neutral ending. Flowey had already witnessed Clover's actions through hundreds of resets, and when he manipulated them into attempting to reach Asgore Asgore, they kept on dying in the main Underground, so he rigged the Ruins switch to set Clover on a different path]].
path.]]
Changed line(s) 15,16 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Jossed in the pacifist and neutral endings. In the former case, depending on the [[LastSecondEndingChoice final decision]] you make, Flowey will be more or less decisive on whether to reset again or to keep Clover dead, while in the latter case he will always offer to reset and encourage Clover to get a different ending. Confirmed in the genocide ending, though with the twist of instead of Clover dying, they're the one to override Flowey's power and gains the ability to SAVE on their own]].
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* [[spoiler:Jossed in the pacifist and neutral endings. In the former case, depending on the [[LastSecondEndingChoice final decision]] you make, Flowey will be more or less decisive on whether to reset again or to keep Clover dead, while in the latter case he will always offer to reset and encourage Clover to get a different ending. Confirmed in the genocide ending, though with the twist of instead of Clover dying, they're the one to override Flowey's power and gains the ability to SAVE on their own]].
own.]]
Changed line(s) 19,20 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Jossed. Though the best ending doesn't end with Clover getting killed by Asgore, they still ultimately die in the end due to willingly giving up their SOUL]].
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* [[spoiler:Jossed. Though the best ending doesn't end with Clover getting killed by Asgore, they still ultimately die in the end due to willingly giving up their SOUL]].
SOUL.]]
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. According to Toby Fox, Asgore personally killed the six humans that fell after Chara. Though Clover still dies in the best ending, they give up their SOUL willingly and never faces Asgore. Asgore ''does'' kill Clover if they killed the final boss in the pacifist route instead of sparing them, which is indeed the lesser ending]].
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* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. According to Toby Fox, Asgore personally killed the six humans that fell after Chara. Though Clover still dies in the best ending, they give up their SOUL willingly and never faces face Asgore. Asgore ''does'' kill Clover if they killed the final boss in the pacifist route instead of sparing them, which is indeed the lesser ending]].
ending.]]
Changed line(s) 27,28 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Confirmed in the true pacifist ending]].
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* [[spoiler:Confirmed in the true pacifist ending]].
ending.]]
Changed line(s) 36,37 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Jossed. In the ending where Clover lives, they override Flowey's ability to SAVE and kill him]].
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* [[spoiler:Jossed. In the ending where Clover lives, they override Flowey's ability to SAVE and kill him]].
him.]]
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[[WMG:Kanako will become an OptionalBoss of Deltarune]]
Long story short, Kanako's [[spoiler:amalgam]] gets abducted by Gaster, turning her into a cursed doll that haunts one of the 'theatre'-themed chapters. Her misery is only compounded by Gaster's revelation that her world wasn't 'real' enough, and so she could never return even if she sacrificed her 'canon-ness', causing her to try to obtain her happiness by trapping Kris and co. in an endless tea party. And - if you use the in-universe save copying system - ''you can submit to her request in one universe and defeat her in another''.
Long story short, Kanako's [[spoiler:amalgam]] gets abducted by Gaster, turning her into a cursed doll that haunts one of the 'theatre'-themed chapters. Her misery is only compounded by Gaster's revelation that her world wasn't 'real' enough, and so she could never return even if she sacrificed her 'canon-ness', causing her to try to obtain her happiness by trapping Kris and co. in an endless tea party. And - if you use the in-universe save copying system - ''you can submit to her request in one universe and defeat her in another''.
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[[WMG:Kanako will become an OptionalBoss of
Long story short, Kanako's [[spoiler:amalgam]] gets abducted by Gaster, turning her into a cursed doll that haunts one of the 'theatre'-themed chapters. Her misery is only compounded by Gaster's revelation that her world wasn't 'real' enough, and so she could never return even if she sacrificed her 'canon-ness', causing her to try to obtain her happiness by trapping Kris and co. in an endless tea party. And
Changed line(s) 84 (click to see context) from:
Ok, so we know that Clover can use their shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale. But what I noticed is that their soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
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Ok, so we know that Clover can use their shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale.''Undertale''. But what I noticed is that their soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
Changed line(s) 86 (click to see context) from:
* Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized they is doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once they reach Axis and gives into his rage, their soul also accepts that they're a monster and changes accordingly.
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* Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized they is are doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once they reach Axis and gives into his give in to their rage, their soul also accepts that they're a monster and changes accordingly.
Changed line(s) 88 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: The Zenith of Monsterkind form that Marlet take in the Genocid Route might be what she would look like if she had absorbed a human soul.]]
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[[WMG: The Zenith of Monsterkind form that Marlet
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Changed line(s) 88 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Zenith of Monsterkind that Marlet take in the Genocid Route might be what she would look like if she had absorbed a human soul.]]
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[[WMG: The Zenith of Monsterkind form that Marlet take in the Genocid Route might be what she would look like if she had absorbed a human soul.]]
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[[WMG: Zenith of Monsterkind that Marlet take in the Genocid Route might be what she would look like if she had absorbed a human soul.]]
It's been established that a monster absorbing a human soul gives them an immense boost to their magic and abilities and doing so will alter their appearance. Determination is a byproduct of a human soul, possibly because in the ''Undertale'' universe, a human soul can will itself to linger far longer than a monster soul ever could. Therefore, injecting Determination might be artificially inducing the same kind of power a monster would have if they had a human soul inside of them.
It's been established that a monster absorbing a human soul gives them an immense boost to their magic and abilities and doing so will alter their appearance. Determination is a byproduct of a human soul, possibly because in the ''Undertale'' universe, a human soul can will itself to linger far longer than a monster soul ever could. Therefore, injecting Determination might be artificially inducing the same kind of power a monster would have if they had a human soul inside of them.
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Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup
Changed line(s) 81 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG:Kanako will become a BonusBoss of Deltarune]]
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[[WMG:Kanako will become a BonusBoss an OptionalBoss of Deltarune]]
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Changed line(s) 75,76 (click to see context) from:
Some of Dalv's dialogue implies that he did something he feels ashamed of, but it's never made clear what. However, there are a few hints at what might have happened, mostly in the Pacifist route:
* Chujin's video says that the monster who Kanako was with in Snowdin was attacked by the human, but doesn't say anything about them being killed. It's possible that Dalv was asked to or offered to look after Kanako during Chujin's visit, since he seems to like children if him wanting to make books for them is any indication.
* Chujin's video says that the monster who Kanako was with in Snowdin was attacked by the human, but doesn't say anything about them being killed. It's possible that Dalv was asked to or offered to look after Kanako during Chujin's visit, since he seems to like children if him wanting to make books for them is any indication.
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* Chujin's video says
* Dalv's dialogue before and during his boss battle implies that he's encountered a human before, and that they were rather violent towards him.
* Chujin's video doesn't say anything about
* Kanako's room has a drawing of Dalv on the wall, implying that she's met him before.
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[[WMG:Dalv was attacked by the blue-souled human, and Kanako was the one leaving corn for him]]
Some of Dalv's dialogue implies that he did something he feels ashamed of, but it's never made clear what. However, there are a few hints at what might have happened, mostly in the Pacifist route:
* Chujin's video says that the monster who Kanako was with in Snowdin was attacked by the human, but doesn't say anything about them being killed. It's possible that Dalv was asked to or offered to look after Kanako during Chujin's visit, since he seems to like children if him wanting to make books for them is any indication.
* Depending on your FUN value, the pillars in the Dark Ruins can show a different image instead of the cat drawing. One of them is of a hooded Dalv, with lines that make it look like he's running. Another is Axis, which seems out of place. Another one is what appears to be the blue-souled human, with the pillar being broken to indicate that they were killed. And the last one is of a human SOUL. Put together, these seem to spell out a story: the human attacked Dalv, causing him to run away, Axis was sent after the human, he killed them, and then Chujin temporarily took possession of their SOUL.
* The end credits of the Pacifist route shows Ceroba bringing corn to Dalv's new house, further showing the connection between him and her family.
Some of Dalv's dialogue implies that he did something he feels ashamed of, but it's never made clear what. However, there are a few hints at what might have happened, mostly in the Pacifist route:
* Chujin's video says that the monster who Kanako was with in Snowdin was attacked by the human, but doesn't say anything about them being killed. It's possible that Dalv was asked to or offered to look after Kanako during Chujin's visit, since he seems to like children if him wanting to make books for them is any indication.
* Depending on your FUN value, the pillars in the Dark Ruins can show a different image instead of the cat drawing. One of them is of a hooded Dalv, with lines that make it look like he's running. Another is Axis, which seems out of place. Another one is what appears to be the blue-souled human, with the pillar being broken to indicate that they were killed. And the last one is of a human SOUL. Put together, these seem to spell out a story: the human attacked Dalv, causing him to run away, Axis was sent after the human, he killed them, and then Chujin temporarily took possession of their SOUL.
* The end credits of the Pacifist route shows Ceroba bringing corn to Dalv's new house, further showing the connection between him and her family.
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Changed line(s) 77 (click to see context) from:
Ok, so we know that Clover can use his shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale. But what I noticed is that his soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
to:
Ok, so we know that Clover can use his their shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale. But what I noticed is that his their soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
Changed line(s) 79,80 (click to see context) from:
* Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized he is doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once he reaches Axis and gives into his rage, his soul also accepts that he’s a monster and changes accordingly.
* Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizing he’s gone through similar things. It’s an inverse of the genocide route, where Clover sees monsters and himself as the same, not as murderers, but as kindred spirits. His soul agrees, and changes accordingly.
* Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizing he’s gone through similar things. It’s an inverse of the genocide route, where Clover sees monsters and himself as the same, not as murderers, but as kindred spirits. His soul agrees, and changes accordingly.
to:
* Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized he they is doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once he reaches they reach Axis and gives into his rage, his their soul also accepts that he’s they're a monster and changes accordingly.
* Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizinghe’s they've gone through similar things. It’s an inverse of the genocide route, where Clover sees monsters and himself themselves as the same, not as murderers, but as kindred spirits. His Their soul agrees, and changes accordingly.
* Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizing
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added example(s)
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[[WMG: A further explanation of how Clover uses the yellow soul’s shooting attack in each route.]]
Ok, so we know that Clover can use his shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale. But what I noticed is that his soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
*Neutral: Clover is absorbed into Flowey, technically becoming a monster by proxy.
*Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized he is doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once he reaches Axis and gives into his rage, his soul also accepts that he’s a monster and changes accordingly.
*Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizing he’s gone through similar things. It’s an inverse of the genocide route, where Clover sees monsters and himself as the same, not as murderers, but as kindred spirits. His soul agrees, and changes accordingly.
Ok, so we know that Clover can use his shooty power that is seen with the yellow soul in Undertale. But what I noticed is that his soul flips over, becoming more similar to a monster’s soul. This makes sense considering where it happens in each route.
*Neutral: Clover is absorbed into Flowey, technically becoming a monster by proxy.
*Genocide: Clover may have subconsciously realized he is doing the same thing the monsters did to the other humans: killing indiscriminately. Once he reaches Axis and gives into his rage, his soul also accepts that he’s a monster and changes accordingly.
*Pacifist: Clover sympathizes with Monsterkind’s struggle, realizing he’s gone through similar things. It’s an inverse of the genocide route, where Clover sees monsters and himself as the same, not as murderers, but as kindred spirits. His soul agrees, and changes accordingly.
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Changed line(s) 49 (click to see context) from:
** True Pacifist: [[spoiler:Your original idea of justice was incorrect. Justice is seeking freedom for the wrongly imprisoned monsters.]]
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** True Pacifist: [[spoiler:Your original idea of justice was incorrect. Justice is seeking freedom for the wrongly imprisoned monsters.imprisoned.]]
Changed line(s) 51,53 (click to see context) from:
** Neutral: [[spoiler:Justice is attacking anyone who attacks you first.]]
** Genocide: [[spoiler:Justice is condemning all of monsterkind for failing to protect the five humans.]]
** Genocide: [[spoiler:Justice is condemning all of monsterkind for failing to protect the five humans.]]
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** Neutral: [[spoiler:Justice is attacking anyone who attacks you first.first, and sparing anyone who begs to be spared.]]
** Genocide:[[spoiler:Justice [[spoiler:[[Anime/MelodyOfOblivion Justice is condemning all of monsterkind for failing to protect the five humans.murdering human children]].]]
** Genocide:
Changed line(s) 56,57 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Jossed. No Mercy is the only route that ''cannot'' fit the original game, as it defies DoomedByCanon with Clover taking Asgore's soul and leaving the Underground with the human souls.]]
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* [[spoiler:Jossed. No Mercy is the only route that ''cannot'' fit the original game, as it defies DoomedByCanon with Clover taking Asgore's soul killing Flowey and Asgore and leaving the Underground with the human souls.]]
Changed line(s) 73 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG:The House you can see in the distance in Snowdin from ''Undertale'' is the one Dalv moved into at the end of this game]]
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[[WMG:The House you can see in the distance in Snowdin from ''Undertale'' is the one Dalv moved into at the end of this game]]game.]]
[[WMG:Kanako will become a BonusBoss of Deltarune]]
Long story short, Kanako's [[spoiler:amalgam]] gets abducted by Gaster, turning her into a cursed doll that haunts one of the 'theatre'-themed chapters. Her misery is only compounded by Gaster's revelation that her world wasn't 'real' enough, and so she could never return even if she sacrificed her 'canon-ness', causing her to try to obtain her happiness by trapping Kris and co. in an endless tea party. And - if you use the in-universe save copying system - ''you can submit to her request in one universe and defeat her in another''.
[[WMG:Kanako will become a BonusBoss of Deltarune]]
Long story short, Kanako's [[spoiler:amalgam]] gets abducted by Gaster, turning her into a cursed doll that haunts one of the 'theatre'-themed chapters. Her misery is only compounded by Gaster's revelation that her world wasn't 'real' enough, and so she could never return even if she sacrificed her 'canon-ness', causing her to try to obtain her happiness by trapping Kris and co. in an endless tea party. And - if you use the in-universe save copying system - ''you can submit to her request in one universe and defeat her in another''.
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[[folder:Pre-Release]]
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Post-Release]]
[[WMG:The House you can see in the distance in Snowdin from ''Undertale'' is the one Dalv moved into at the end of this game]]
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Post-Release]]
[[WMG:The House you can see in the distance in Snowdin from ''Undertale'' is the one Dalv moved into at the end of this game]]
[[/folder]]
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Changed line(s) 58,59 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. Both Pacifist endings can be taken as canon. The Neutral ending ends with Flowey resetting the timeline, so it being an end at all is debatable. The Genocide Route, on the other hand, is jossed because it utterly 'breaks' canon with Clover killing Flowey and Asgore, taking the latter's soul, and leaving the Underground with the five souls.]]
to:
* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. Both Pacifist endings can be taken as canon. The Neutral ending ends with Flowey resetting the timeline, so it being an end at all is debatable. The Genocide Route, on the other hand, is jossed because it utterly 'breaks' ''breaks'' canon with Clover killing Flowey and Asgore, taking the latter's soul, and leaving the Underground with the five souls.]]
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Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
** [[spoiler:Jossed. Clover gives up his SOUL willingly in the True Pacifist ending and has it taken by Asgore in the lesser Pacifist ending. The Neutral ending merely ends with Flowey resetting the timeline and the Genocide ending has Clover leaving the Underground with the five SOULs.]]
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** [[spoiler:Jossed. Clover gives up his SOUL soul willingly in the True Pacifist ending and has it taken by Asgore in the lesser Pacifist ending. The Neutral ending merely ends with Flowey resetting the timeline and the Genocide ending has Clover leaving the Underground with the five SOULs.souls.]]
Changed line(s) 58,59 (click to see context) from:
* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. Both Pacifist endings can be taken as canon. The Neutral ending ends with Flowey resetting the timeline, so it being an end at all is debatable. The Genocide Route, on the other hand, is jossed because it utterly 'breaks' canon with Clover killing Flowey and Asgore, taking the latter's SOUL, and leaving the Underground with the five SOULs.]]
to:
* [[spoiler:Somewhat confirmed. Both Pacifist endings can be taken as canon. The Neutral ending ends with Flowey resetting the timeline, so it being an end at all is debatable. The Genocide Route, on the other hand, is jossed because it utterly 'breaks' canon with Clover killing Flowey and Asgore, taking the latter's SOUL, soul, and leaving the Underground with the five SOULs.souls.]]
