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*** 1) Kumasawa was definitely directly hired like Genji was, serving Kinzo since Krauss and the siblings were still young children. It is strongly implied that Shannon and Kanon weren't initially hired by Kinzo, but rose through the ranks. 2) If the corpse identites were misidentified, then the Red is made invalid. Everyone has to be who they're said to be in that particular scene, but there's still leeway for Shannon's corpse to not exist. 4) I would wager that Battler and Maria's lives are much more important to the Shkanontrice murderer than Jessica and George, considering that Jessica and George tend to die fairly early and that Battler and Maria usually live until the very end. When Maria doesn't live that long, it's implied to be a different murderer.
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** 1) [[color:red:Addendum to the hints presented:]] [[color:blue:Only Gohda and Kumasawa are servants who have not called themselves "furniture", and they have not been directly employed by Kinzo.]] It's possible that the parents have some degree of control over them, but it seems that their general loyalty is towards Kinzo. Also, no heir has been announced yet, since Kinzo is still "alive". There's still leeway for the theory to be true. 2) It's also possible that the corpses were misidentified, which still counts as "[[color:red:their identities being guaranteed,]] because the method of identification may not have been conclusive. 3) Hm. I have to re-check that. But if Battler didn't witness it (since he's the detective), then "Jessica being with Kanon" may not have happened. Or that Kanon's just that really good at playing dead. 4) They weren't really interfering, so there was no need to kill them. If they did, then they would've died anyway.
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* Pretty good overall, and generally I agree, but if I may raise a few points and questions. 1) The definition of "servant" here bugs me; it seems like an escapist twist. They call themselves servants, they act as servants, and they unconditionally obey Krauss and Natsuhi's orders, acknowledging Krauss as the heir. 2) Shannon's corpse was never seen by Battler, so it need not be there at all. Hideyoshi may have been cooerced into cooperating, then killed. 3) Jessica was with Kanon's body for a good period, almost until the point he "died." Unless she's stupid, she should have noticed something. 4) Maria and Battler lived to the end too. Are they for Beatrice?
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[[WMG: Full Theory to ''Legend of the Golden Witch'']]
Hi guys. To the people who visit this page, please attack my theory and tell me if this is a viable solution to Episode 1. Here goes. '''MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD.'''
A word of note: Please be reminded of [[color:red:Knox's 9th: It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions be heard.]]
'''THE CULPRIT''':
First, [[color:blue:I propose that the term “furniture” refers to the status of a person as the servant of “Kinzo Ushiromiya”. As such, when Kinzo Ushiromiya died, all persons with the title of “furniture” lost their status as such, and without an heir to the name of “Kinzo Ushiromiya”, all those with the prior title of “furniture” also lose their status as “servants”.]]
[[color:red:Presentation of hints!]] [[color:blue:It has been implied that the furniture status may be discarded! No hints to the conditions, however, I also propose that in order for the illusion of Kinzo being alive to remain, the "furniture" were still asked to refer to themselves as such in order to hide the fact of Kinzo's death! But technically, they don't have a master anymore, so they don't count as servants!]]
Going by this assumption, [[color:blue:I propose that Kanon is the culprit!]] This way, [[color:blue:Van Dine's 11th is fulfilled]], [[color:red:which states that 'it is forbidden for servants to be the culprit'.]]
[[color:blue:I also propose that at the very least, the following people are involved: Kumasawa, Genji, and Nanjo. Reasons for this will be explained later.]]
'''FIRST TWILIGHT''':
Simple enough. [[color:blue:The culprit killed the victims in their rooms, then stashed their bodies in the shed, possibly with help. At the time the bodies were in the shed, some of the corpses were disfigured in order to give the possibility that the disfigured corpses are actually faked, thus shifting the blame to the disfigured corpses.]]
[[color:blue:I propose that the corpse identified as “Shannon” existed with that name at one point in time, and was killed (or had died) prior to this point of time. Assuming that “Shannon” was already dead before October 4, 1986, then the “Shannon” that the cousins have interacted with is actually Kanon, or vice versa.]]
'''SECOND TWILIGHT''':
The culprit killed Eva and Hideyoshi in this manner: [[color:blue:he knocked on the door, prompting Eva to open it. Once the culprit was inside, he killed Eva, then Hideyoshi, and then waited inside the closet until someone would arrive and cut open the chain. If it was one of the co-conspirators, he would merely pretend that he was one of the first to discover the corpses. If it was not, he would have remained inside the closet until the rest of the people discovered Hideyoshi’s body in the bath tub, a blind spot which would allow the culprit to sneak in and mingle with the rest of the family.]]
'''FOURTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:Kinzo's corpse was disposed of by any of the people who know about his death in order to hide the fact that he died before October 4, 1986.]]
'''FIFTH TWILIGHT''':
This is the most crucial part of the argument. [[color:blue:Kanon did not die. An object, perhaps a notebook, was lodged in his clothing, which prevented a stab wound from the stake from penetrating into his body. Any blood found on the scene was probably faked using paint, ketchup, or any similar material. After that, his “corpse” was carried to Doctor Nanjo. The onlookers were probably chased out of the room while Kanon was being “treated”, and when Doctor Nanjo got out of the room, the illusion of Kanon’s “death” is completed.]]
[[color:red:Presentation of hints! Kanon's death was not an accident, and Kanon did not commit suicide!]] [[color:blue:The red truths have not been violated, and Beatrice's refusal to say that it was a homicide is the vital clue to this argument!]]
'''SIXTH, SEVENTH, EIGHTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:By supposing Kanon’s death as faked, the triple murder of Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Genji is now solvable. Kanon, disguised as Beatrice, ordered Maria to turn around and drown out all noises while Kanon killed the three people. Afterwards, he called Kinzo’s study to draw out Natsuhi and the other cousins.]]
'''NINTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:The murder of Natsuhi is also solvable by supposing Kanon’s fake death. Kanon lured Natsuhi out using the letter of unknown contents, and then killed her.]]
'''MOTIVE''':
[[color:blue:Kanon’s motive is love.]] Recall that [[color:red:Jessica and George survived until the tenth twilight.]] [[color:blue:I propose that Shannon/Kanon committed the murders in order to get rid of the remaining obstacles to their relationship with George/Jessica. By the tenth twilight, Shannon/Kanon would have picked which identity to adopt, thus fulfilling the relationship of one while destroying the other. However, the remaining survivors died before that could happen, finally killing everyone on the island.]]
Well, what do you think, everyone...?
Hi guys. To the people who visit this page, please attack my theory and tell me if this is a viable solution to Episode 1. Here goes. '''MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD.'''
A word of note: Please be reminded of [[color:red:Knox's 9th: It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions be heard.]]
'''THE CULPRIT''':
First, [[color:blue:I propose that the term “furniture” refers to the status of a person as the servant of “Kinzo Ushiromiya”. As such, when Kinzo Ushiromiya died, all persons with the title of “furniture” lost their status as such, and without an heir to the name of “Kinzo Ushiromiya”, all those with the prior title of “furniture” also lose their status as “servants”.]]
[[color:red:Presentation of hints!]] [[color:blue:It has been implied that the furniture status may be discarded! No hints to the conditions, however, I also propose that in order for the illusion of Kinzo being alive to remain, the "furniture" were still asked to refer to themselves as such in order to hide the fact of Kinzo's death! But technically, they don't have a master anymore, so they don't count as servants!]]
Going by this assumption, [[color:blue:I propose that Kanon is the culprit!]] This way, [[color:blue:Van Dine's 11th is fulfilled]], [[color:red:which states that 'it is forbidden for servants to be the culprit'.]]
[[color:blue:I also propose that at the very least, the following people are involved: Kumasawa, Genji, and Nanjo. Reasons for this will be explained later.]]
'''FIRST TWILIGHT''':
Simple enough. [[color:blue:The culprit killed the victims in their rooms, then stashed their bodies in the shed, possibly with help. At the time the bodies were in the shed, some of the corpses were disfigured in order to give the possibility that the disfigured corpses are actually faked, thus shifting the blame to the disfigured corpses.]]
[[color:blue:I propose that the corpse identified as “Shannon” existed with that name at one point in time, and was killed (or had died) prior to this point of time. Assuming that “Shannon” was already dead before October 4, 1986, then the “Shannon” that the cousins have interacted with is actually Kanon, or vice versa.]]
'''SECOND TWILIGHT''':
The culprit killed Eva and Hideyoshi in this manner: [[color:blue:he knocked on the door, prompting Eva to open it. Once the culprit was inside, he killed Eva, then Hideyoshi, and then waited inside the closet until someone would arrive and cut open the chain. If it was one of the co-conspirators, he would merely pretend that he was one of the first to discover the corpses. If it was not, he would have remained inside the closet until the rest of the people discovered Hideyoshi’s body in the bath tub, a blind spot which would allow the culprit to sneak in and mingle with the rest of the family.]]
'''FOURTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:Kinzo's corpse was disposed of by any of the people who know about his death in order to hide the fact that he died before October 4, 1986.]]
'''FIFTH TWILIGHT''':
This is the most crucial part of the argument. [[color:blue:Kanon did not die. An object, perhaps a notebook, was lodged in his clothing, which prevented a stab wound from the stake from penetrating into his body. Any blood found on the scene was probably faked using paint, ketchup, or any similar material. After that, his “corpse” was carried to Doctor Nanjo. The onlookers were probably chased out of the room while Kanon was being “treated”, and when Doctor Nanjo got out of the room, the illusion of Kanon’s “death” is completed.]]
[[color:red:Presentation of hints! Kanon's death was not an accident, and Kanon did not commit suicide!]] [[color:blue:The red truths have not been violated, and Beatrice's refusal to say that it was a homicide is the vital clue to this argument!]]
'''SIXTH, SEVENTH, EIGHTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:By supposing Kanon’s death as faked, the triple murder of Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Genji is now solvable. Kanon, disguised as Beatrice, ordered Maria to turn around and drown out all noises while Kanon killed the three people. Afterwards, he called Kinzo’s study to draw out Natsuhi and the other cousins.]]
'''NINTH TWILIGHT''':
[[color:blue:The murder of Natsuhi is also solvable by supposing Kanon’s fake death. Kanon lured Natsuhi out using the letter of unknown contents, and then killed her.]]
'''MOTIVE''':
[[color:blue:Kanon’s motive is love.]] Recall that [[color:red:Jessica and George survived until the tenth twilight.]] [[color:blue:I propose that Shannon/Kanon committed the murders in order to get rid of the remaining obstacles to their relationship with George/Jessica. By the tenth twilight, Shannon/Kanon would have picked which identity to adopt, thus fulfilling the relationship of one while destroying the other. However, the remaining survivors died before that could happen, finally killing everyone on the island.]]
Well, what do you think, everyone...?
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[[WMG:The Siestas were made in Iceland]]
Why else would they have the national flag on their arms?
Why else would they have the national flag on their arms?
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Trying to contribute my theory
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***** It's possible if the 'games' between Battler and Beatrice start during Episode 2. I think Battler himself mentions that things didn't really start between himself and Beatrice until Episode 2, therefore, it's possible that Episode 1 wasn't really a game, and Virgilia's Red Truth and Knox's 7th wouldn't apply.
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* In the sixth game, when Erika and Maria were arguing about Beato's candy magic, Erika asked Maria to confirm that she was telling the truth in red. Dlanor claimed refusal would be a violation of Knox's 7th. [[color:blue:Since Knox's 7th goverens the actions of the detective, only the detective can violate it. In other words, Maria was the detective of the sixth game.]]
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** The original version of Knox's 2nd does indeed forbid the use of any magic. However, the Umineko version of Knox's 2nd only prevents it from being used as a detective technique
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To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. So off he goes to the director's girlfriend, Beatrice, to sort things out. She tells him that all of the events that he remembers, even ones that contradict reason, are true. Battler insists that only one can be true and that one must be the most logical. On it goes, eventually they just [[ShutUpKiss make out]]. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
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To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. So off he goes to the director's girlfriend, Beatrice, to sort things out. She tells him that all of the events that he remembers, even ones that contradict reason, are true. Battler insists that only one can be true and that one must be the most logical. On it goes, eventually they just [[ShutUpKiss make out]].goes. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
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To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
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To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. So off he goes to the director's girlfriend, Beatrice, to sort things out. She tells him that all of the events that he remembers, even ones that contradict reason, are true. Battler insists that only one can be true and that one must be the most logical. On it goes, eventually they just [[ShutUpKiss make out]]. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
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# "Magic" and "science" are difficult to distinguish after magic has been explained. One might think of magnetism as magic if you aren't introduced to the principles behind it early enough. Say a wizard explained everything about how to make fireball, right up to what physical law allows for it; you'd probably still think of it as magic, simply because it's too out there for your brain to place into the "science" file folder. In fiction, this becomes a problem. As a result, "fantasy" and "science fiction" are separate by this maxim: "Fantasy is where the impossible is possible and science fiction is where the improbable is probable." Put that in red if you want, I'm to lazy to. The vast majority of things in Umineko are quite impossible. It's fantasy, straight up, but that's not always a bad thing. Science fiction isn't "intelligent" fantasy and fantasy isn't "ignorant" or "unexplained" science fiction. They're two separate genres, not [[Pokemon evolutionary forms]] of the same thing. Just because the Witches here are well versed in quantum mechanics doesn't mean that their magic doesn't violate the laws of nature. Lot's of scientific laws are true in fantasy works, but it's the ones that are clearly violated that make it a fantasy proper. Science fiction (well, good science fiction) rarely violates real world laws, otherwise they may as well be casting a spell to teleport their spaceship.
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# "Magic" and "science" are difficult to distinguish after magic has been explained. One might think of magnetism as magic if you aren't introduced to the principles behind it early enough. Say a wizard explained everything about how to make fireball, right up to what physical law allows for it; you'd probably still think of it as magic, simply because it's too out there for your brain to place into the "science" file folder. In fiction, this becomes a problem. As a result, "fantasy" and "science fiction" are separate by this maxim: "Fantasy is where the impossible is possible and science fiction is where the improbable is probable." Put that in red if you want, I'm to lazy to. The vast majority of things in Umineko are quite impossible. It's fantasy, straight up, but that's not always a bad thing. Science fiction isn't "intelligent" fantasy and fantasy isn't "ignorant" or "unexplained" science fiction. They're two separate genres, not [[Pokemon [[{{Pokemon}} evolutionary forms]] of the same thing. Just because the Witches here are well versed in quantum mechanics doesn't mean that their magic doesn't violate the laws of nature. Lot's of scientific laws are true in fantasy works, but it's the ones that are clearly violated that make it a fantasy proper. Science fiction (well, good science fiction) rarely violates real world laws, otherwise they may as well be casting a spell to teleport their spaceship.
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* While I admit I'm certainly no fan of Umineko, stopped watching the anime around episode 25 or so, and thus haven't been through everything as thoroughly as the majority of those debating here have, but I must still make the following points the above discussion seems to have forgotten:
# On the subject of Knox's Rules, we must remember that they are merely suggestions meant to advance the quality of detective literature, not universal laws that have mathematical proofs to back them up. They should be considered more like the general consensus around Mary Sues or Self Insert fanfics. Most of such things are rubbish, but some are quite good. Heck, Dante's Divine Comedy is a self insert fanfic of the Bible and is a respected classic all the same. So while Knox's Rules probably shouldn't (and in Umineko, probably won't) be broken, they still can be without the universe imploding.
# The 4th of Knox's Rules is probably one that has not withstood the test of time very well and thus its literal meaning seems to say things it doesn't. I personally would rewrite it if I could, but whatever. The general point that rule is trying to make is that the author shouldn't brag about how much he knows about chemistry or Rube Goldberg contraptions. Some random poison that comes from left field is a no-no, some random obscure scientific rule or process that the author either made up or somehow knows because he's a nerd is also a no-no. The latter is the point of debate here, and to bring it into context let's just say we have a murder mystery where the victim is found burning away in his favorite chair or something. Following Knox's 4th, random chemical reactions are a no-no, spontaneous human combustion is a no-no, and so on. If the victim burnt to death, there has to be a match or flame or flamethrower that set him on fire. Note the flamethrower is fine. Yes, a flamethrower can be used as a murder weapon, you just have to justify its existence to begin with. Higher forms of technology is fine, they just have to fit the setting and be shown to the reader so that they count as evidence.
# "Magic" and "science" are difficult to distinguish after magic has been explained. One might think of magnetism as magic if you aren't introduced to the principles behind it early enough. Say a wizard explained everything about how to make fireball, right up to what physical law allows for it; you'd probably still think of it as magic, simply because it's too out there for your brain to place into the "science" file folder. In fiction, this becomes a problem. As a result, "fantasy" and "science fiction" are separate by this maxim: "Fantasy is where the impossible is possible and science fiction is where the improbable is probable." Put that in red if you want, I'm to lazy to. The vast majority of things in Umineko are quite impossible. It's fantasy, straight up, but that's not always a bad thing. Science fiction isn't "intelligent" fantasy and fantasy isn't "ignorant" or "unexplained" science fiction. They're two separate genres, not [[Pokemon evolutionary forms]] of the same thing. Just because the Witches here are well versed in quantum mechanics doesn't mean that their magic doesn't violate the laws of nature. Lot's of scientific laws are true in fantasy works, but it's the ones that are clearly violated that make it a fantasy proper. Science fiction (well, good science fiction) rarely violates real world laws, otherwise they may as well be casting a spell to teleport their spaceship.
# Magic itself violates Knox's 2nd. Straight up. However, giving all of what appeared to be supernatural events explanations (such as the servants being robots) would legitimately violate Rule 4. Where did this miraculous technology come from? How did that crazy old man I forget the name of acquire that technology and keep it from both the world and the reader? Why are they calling it magic to begin with instead of just saying its high tech? It's all too elaborate a conspiracy. Heck, you probably shouldn't even trust your eyes all the time. Remember, everything after the first round of murders is constructed. Logically, it isn't a game meant to give a fair chance to both sides, just some stupid false reality that is presented to Battler as somehow being legitimate and one that follows any kind of ruleset. Unless one of the Witches says in red "I'm not playing this game with loaded dice," we have to logically assume that they are and thus trying to get Battler to submit to them (or whatever they want, idk, I couldn't follow anyone's motives at all). The only murder mystery that we can say is actually worth solving at all is the first one, not the endless game Battler and Beatrice play. As a result, we should be looking for clues to that one, truths that are found in a sea of lies. Everything else is freshly prepared RedHerring.
To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
# On the subject of Knox's Rules, we must remember that they are merely suggestions meant to advance the quality of detective literature, not universal laws that have mathematical proofs to back them up. They should be considered more like the general consensus around Mary Sues or Self Insert fanfics. Most of such things are rubbish, but some are quite good. Heck, Dante's Divine Comedy is a self insert fanfic of the Bible and is a respected classic all the same. So while Knox's Rules probably shouldn't (and in Umineko, probably won't) be broken, they still can be without the universe imploding.
# The 4th of Knox's Rules is probably one that has not withstood the test of time very well and thus its literal meaning seems to say things it doesn't. I personally would rewrite it if I could, but whatever. The general point that rule is trying to make is that the author shouldn't brag about how much he knows about chemistry or Rube Goldberg contraptions. Some random poison that comes from left field is a no-no, some random obscure scientific rule or process that the author either made up or somehow knows because he's a nerd is also a no-no. The latter is the point of debate here, and to bring it into context let's just say we have a murder mystery where the victim is found burning away in his favorite chair or something. Following Knox's 4th, random chemical reactions are a no-no, spontaneous human combustion is a no-no, and so on. If the victim burnt to death, there has to be a match or flame or flamethrower that set him on fire. Note the flamethrower is fine. Yes, a flamethrower can be used as a murder weapon, you just have to justify its existence to begin with. Higher forms of technology is fine, they just have to fit the setting and be shown to the reader so that they count as evidence.
# "Magic" and "science" are difficult to distinguish after magic has been explained. One might think of magnetism as magic if you aren't introduced to the principles behind it early enough. Say a wizard explained everything about how to make fireball, right up to what physical law allows for it; you'd probably still think of it as magic, simply because it's too out there for your brain to place into the "science" file folder. In fiction, this becomes a problem. As a result, "fantasy" and "science fiction" are separate by this maxim: "Fantasy is where the impossible is possible and science fiction is where the improbable is probable." Put that in red if you want, I'm to lazy to. The vast majority of things in Umineko are quite impossible. It's fantasy, straight up, but that's not always a bad thing. Science fiction isn't "intelligent" fantasy and fantasy isn't "ignorant" or "unexplained" science fiction. They're two separate genres, not [[Pokemon evolutionary forms]] of the same thing. Just because the Witches here are well versed in quantum mechanics doesn't mean that their magic doesn't violate the laws of nature. Lot's of scientific laws are true in fantasy works, but it's the ones that are clearly violated that make it a fantasy proper. Science fiction (well, good science fiction) rarely violates real world laws, otherwise they may as well be casting a spell to teleport their spaceship.
# Magic itself violates Knox's 2nd. Straight up. However, giving all of what appeared to be supernatural events explanations (such as the servants being robots) would legitimately violate Rule 4. Where did this miraculous technology come from? How did that crazy old man I forget the name of acquire that technology and keep it from both the world and the reader? Why are they calling it magic to begin with instead of just saying its high tech? It's all too elaborate a conspiracy. Heck, you probably shouldn't even trust your eyes all the time. Remember, everything after the first round of murders is constructed. Logically, it isn't a game meant to give a fair chance to both sides, just some stupid false reality that is presented to Battler as somehow being legitimate and one that follows any kind of ruleset. Unless one of the Witches says in red "I'm not playing this game with loaded dice," we have to logically assume that they are and thus trying to get Battler to submit to them (or whatever they want, idk, I couldn't follow anyone's motives at all). The only murder mystery that we can say is actually worth solving at all is the first one, not the endless game Battler and Beatrice play. As a result, we should be looking for clues to that one, truths that are found in a sea of lies. Everything else is freshly prepared RedHerring.
To save someone from yelling at me because it might sound like I'm saying Umineko is of low quality, think of it like this: there is a troupe of actors who preform a play based on how the troupe first met and got into acting. However, no two performances of the play are the same, with variations here and there. One of the actors, Battler, has begun to become confused as to how the group legitimately first met, since all of the preformances being based around that has confused him. In a sense, it is much like this. We have to assume that the first presentation of the events was the real one. Everything after that is false, unless revealed to be otherwise. Now I'm definately not saying that this is the literal explaination, but it is generally like that in the sense of the whole "the first mystery is the one you should be focusing on, dummköpfe" thing.
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... actually belongs to the Knox family. Dlanor will solve the epitaph to reclaim it, then have the gold moved to a high-security [[StealthPun fort.]]
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... actually belongs used to belong to the Knox family. Dlanor will solve the epitaph to reclaim it, then have the gold moved to a high-security [[StealthPun fort.]]
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* Because music in Umineko have NEVER been remixed for use outside of thematic reasons. No sirree, not at all. Never.
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* Listen to Sakutaro's theme. Listen to Happiness of Marionette (EVA's theme). Compare, consider, recoil in horror.
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[[WMG:Sakutaro and EVA are related]]
[[MusicalSpoiler Their themes are a little too related for This Troper.]] We can only hope we are being trolled, or else that stuffed lion is a greater troll than Fermat.
[[MusicalSpoiler Their themes are a little too related for This Troper.]] We can only hope we are being trolled, or else that stuffed lion is a greater troll than Fermat.
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just another \'light\' WMG for the fun of it. ;P
[[WMG: The Ushiromiya gold...]]
... actually belongs to the Knox family. Dlanor will solve the epitaph to reclaim it, then have the gold moved to a high-security [[StealthPun fort.]]
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* From Episode 4, regarding Eva and Hideyoshi in Episode 1: [[color:red: "Both were killed by another person! It is not the case that, after the construction of the closed room, one of them committed suicide after committing murder! Furthermore, the murder was carried out with both the victim and the perpetrator in the same room! No method exists for the perpetrator to commit murder from outside the room!"]] Eva and Hideyoshi were confirmed in red to have been killed, so their deaths were not faked. From Episode 4, referring to the parlour murders in Episode 1: [[color:red: "Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, the three were killed by other people!"]] Nanjo, Genji and Kumasawa are confirmed in red to have been killed, so their deaths were not faked.
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* Why is it a fake? It can be solved the same way as the second twilight of Episode 1, or even how Natsuhi was supposed to be in the room herself - the killer was hidden somewhere in the room when Hideyoshi locked it, came out, killed him, then hid again. As in Episode 1, they didn't think to search the room, but this time if they had they would have found Natsuhi and assumed she was the killer instead!
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xci4LXaYTh0&feature=related As seen here.]]
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* To expand on this: Using several WMGs above, there are ten arcs, including ''Episode X''. In the ninth arc, Beatrice is revived in a way that merges the gameboard with the Meta-World, meeting the requirement that "At the ninth twilight, the witch will be revived and none will be left alive". Bernkastel reveals that she knew this would happen, using the magic of miracles to make sure that Beatrice would survive. She then explains that a)she wanted a good story, b)she was calling the audience out, or c)she was prodding Battler into action so that he'd solve the riddle. They then throw a massive celebration and Battler drops one of the ingots, cracking it open.
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* To expand on this: Using several WMGs [=WMGs=] above, there are ten arcs, including ''Episode X''. In the ninth arc, Beatrice is revived in a way that merges the gameboard with the Meta-World, meeting the requirement that "At the ninth twilight, the witch will be revived and none will be left alive". Bernkastel reveals that she knew this would happen, using the magic of miracles to make sure that Beatrice would survive. She then explains that a)she wanted a good story, b)she was calling the audience out, or c)she was prodding Battler into action so that he'd solve the riddle. They then throw a massive celebration and Battler drops one of the ingots, cracking it open.
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Now let's just wait until they say it in Red...
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Now let's just wait until they say it in Red...Red...
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----
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* And the title of the story is really just "Na", and Higurashi never happened. We've been hardcoroe trolled.
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* And the title of the story is really just "Na", and Higurashi never happened. We've been hardcoroe hardcore trolled.
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[[WMG:Erika didn't fall off the boat, she jumped.]]
Bitch is crazy; she could've done it just cause, or she was suicidal over her boyfriend's betrayal.
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***** Well, actually Erika was the Witch of Truth during the span of Episode 6, admittedly.
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* And the title of the story is really just "Na", and Higurashi never happened. We've been hardcoroe trolled.
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[[WMG:UminekoNoNakuKoroNi is based off of a true story.]]
Why else would the this is a work of fiction disclaimer be in white instead of red?
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"Magic cannot do something that cannot be done by human means" is one character's theory (which was only stated in white)
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****** Around the same time Erika revealed she didn't intend to make the detective's proclamation. Also, Battler didn't have the right to invoke the Blue Truth until Beato gave him the right to use it.
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****** [[color:red:There are mysteries that don't follow Knox or Dine.]]
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*** [[color:red: Magic cannot do something that cannot be done by human means.]] So Erika could not have revived them with magic. However, the characters were "playing dead." It's a fiction nested within another fiction, so there's absolutely no problem. I think your issue is that you're interpretting the Red too literally, and don't seem to realize how many layers are at work, here.
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*** [[color:red: [[color:blue: Magic cannot do something that cannot be done by human means.]] So Erika could not have revived them with magic. However, the characters were "playing dead." It's a fiction nested within another fiction, so there's absolutely no problem. I think your issue is that you're interpretting the Red too literally, and don't seem to realize how many layers are at work, here.
**** [[color:red:Erika is human.]] Therefore, [[color:blue:even if she were to use magic to accomplish something that can only be accomplished with magic she still did it via human means.]]
**** [[color:red:Erika is human.]] Therefore, [[color:blue:even if she were to use magic to accomplish something that can only be accomplished with magic she still did it via human means.]]
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***** When were we told Battler never had the Detective Authority? Putting that aside, his viewpoint was unfalsifiable, meaning he had some sort of Authority. Just because he never actively used it doesn't mean he never had it. Battler has the right to do all sorts of things he never invoked, like the Blue Truth before Episode 4.
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*** [[color:red: Magic cannot do something that cannot be done by human means.]] So Erika could not have revived them with magic. However, the characters were "playing dead." It's a fiction nested within another fiction, so there's absolutely no problem. I think your issue is that you're interpretting the Red too literally, and don't seem to realize how many layers are at work, here.
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** That red can be explained with, [[color:blue:Erika revived the victims using magic, and then rekilled them.]] If the first deaths were false in the context of the gameboard, Erika wouldn't be able to say she rekilled them in that context.
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***** Sure, it's part of Umineko, but the entirety of Umineko is not a Mystery story; it's a blend of genres. The Meta-World is not strictly Mystery, and there are multiple Fantasy scenes on the Gameboard. The thing is, by definition, 1998 doesn't qualify as Mystery because Ange's perspective isn't reliable as her journey breaks a lot of Knox and Dine rules, which, by the way, only need to apply to the Gameboard, because only the Gameboard needs to follow Mystery rules. Reality isn't bound by Narrative Causality.
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* [[color:red: Everyone...was certainly alive before I killed them.]] She took people who were "killed" by the competing lovers and "rekilled" them so they were actually dead. The Red Truth can allow for repeating fictions, since none of the Gameboards actually happened.
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**** [[color:blue UminekoNoNakuKoroNi is a detective story.]][[color:red:Ange's 1998 is part of UminekoNoNakuKoroNi.]] Therefore, Ange's 1998 is part of a detective story.
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**** [[color:blue UminekoNoNakuKoroNi [[color:blue:UminekoNoNakuKoroNi is a detective story.]][[color:red:Ange's ]] [[color:red:Ange's 1998 is part of UminekoNoNakuKoroNi.]] Therefore, Ange's 1998 is part of a detective story.
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[[color:red:[Erika] rekilled [Rosa, Maria, Kyrie, Natsuhi, and Eva].] [[color:blue:Rekill means to kill someone or something that has already been killed. Killing means making a living thing into a dead thing. Dead things are not living things. A dead thing cannot be made into a living thing without magic.]]
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[[color:red:[Erika] rekilled [Rosa, Maria, Kyrie, Natsuhi, and Eva].] ]] [[color:blue:Rekill means to kill someone or something that has already been killed. Killing means making a living thing into a dead thing. Dead things are not living things. A dead thing cannot be made into a living thing without magic.]]
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*** [[color:red: It refers to both of them. Meta-Battler controls Piece-Battler, who, as long as Battler didn't give up, never experienced anything supernatural, always had a right to look at the bodies, was never killed until the end...He represented the human side on-board and off, just like Erika.]]
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*** [[color:red: [[color:blue: It refers to both of them. Meta-Battler controls Piece-Battler, who, as long as Battler didn't give up, never experienced anything supernatural, always had a right to look at the bodies, was never killed until the end...end. He represented the human side on-board and off, just like Erika.]]
**** [[color:blue: Dlanor wanted Battler to think that red was reffering to both Battlers, but it wasn't.]] Also, doesn't the right to examine bodies fall under "detective's authority" [[color:red:which is something that we were told Battler never had.]] Being the detective doesn't automaticly give someone "detective's authority" it simply prevents one from falsifying one's viewpoint.
**** [[color:blue: Dlanor wanted Battler to think that red was reffering to both Battlers, but it wasn't.]] Also, doesn't the right to examine bodies fall under "detective's authority" [[color:red:which is something that we were told Battler never had.]] Being the detective doesn't automaticly give someone "detective's authority" it simply prevents one from falsifying one's viewpoint.
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**** [[color:blue UminekoNoNakuKoroNi is a detective story.]][[color:red:Ange's 1998 is part of UminekoNoNakuKoroNi.]] Therefore, Ange's 1998 is part of a detective story.
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***** And as the Gamemaster, he would suffer if the board was destroyed, just like Beato did earlier. Damaging the game damages it's owner; if it was so easy to just waltz out of a Logic Error, it wouldn't be so traumatizingto Bern and Lambda. Anyway, I would say that Battler actually PLANNED the Logic Error, and it was a bit Kinzo-style gambit to revive Beatrice by putting pressure on her. See my above theory about it.
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***** And as the Gamemaster, he would suffer if the board was destroyed, just like Beato did earlier. Damaging the game damages it's owner; if it was so easy to just waltz out of a Logic Error, it wouldn't be so traumatizingto traumatizing to Bern and Lambda. Anyway, I would say that Battler actually PLANNED the Logic Error, and it was a bit Kinzo-style gambit to revive Beatrice by putting pressure on her. See my above theory about it.it.
[[WMG: The first twilight of the sixth game could not have been accomplished without magic.]]
[[color:red:[Erika] rekilled [Rosa, Maria, Kyrie, Natsuhi, and Eva].] [[color:blue:Rekill means to kill someone or something that has already been killed. Killing means making a living thing into a dead thing. Dead things are not living things. A dead thing cannot be made into a living thing without magic.]]
[[WMG: The first twilight of the sixth game could not have been accomplished without magic.]]
[[color:red:[Erika] rekilled [Rosa, Maria, Kyrie, Natsuhi, and Eva].] [[color:blue:Rekill means to kill someone or something that has already been killed. Killing means making a living thing into a dead thing. Dead things are not living things. A dead thing cannot be made into a living thing without magic.]]
