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*** [[color:red: It refers to both of them. Meta-Battler controls Piece-Battler, who, as long as Battler didn't give up, never experienced anything supernatural, always had a right to look at the bodies, was never killed until the end...He represented the human side on-board and off, just like Erika.]]
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*** Too bad Ange's 1998 is not a detective story, huh?
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***** And as the Gamemaster, he would suffer if the board was destroyed, just like Beato did earlier. Damaging the game damages it's owner; if it was so easy to just waltz out of a Logic Error, it wouldn't be so traumatizingto Bern and Lambda. Anyway, I would say that Battler actually PLANNED the Logic Error, and it was a bit Kinzo-style gambit to revive Beatrice by putting pressure on her. See my above theory about it.
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* Why does anything need to explain? The conspiracy is plausible, realistic, and in line with the Ushiromiya family's sordid financial business. Amakusa is hardly an idealised boyfriend-figure (especially since he probably killed her), the bank vaults and codes and bottle letters are real...and it's not all that odd for someone to survive a fall like that if they bounce off of soft canopies like that. Besides, the "everything waa a dying dream" thing is cliche.
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* Why does anything need to explain? The conspiracy is plausible, realistic, and in line with the Ushiromiya family's sordid financial business. Amakusa is hardly an idealised boyfriend-figure (especially since he probably killed her), the bank vaults and codes and bottle letters are real...and it's not all that odd for someone to survive a fall like that if they bounce off of soft canopies like that. Besides, the "everything waa was a dying dream" thing is cliche.
** [[color:red: Dine's 19th. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal. International plottings and war politics belong in a different category of fiction — in secret-service tales, for instance. But a murder story must be kept gemütlich, so to speak. It must reflect the reader's everyday experiences, and give him a certain outlet for his own repressed desires and emotions.]]
** [[color:red: Dine's 19th. The motives for all crimes in detective stories should be personal. International plottings and war politics belong in a different category of fiction — in secret-service tales, for instance. But a murder story must be kept gemütlich, so to speak. It must reflect the reader's everyday experiences, and give him a certain outlet for his own repressed desires and emotions.]]
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**** It was only stated that the gameboard would be destroyed as a result. BATTLER's goal was not to create a coherent story, it was to show that he understood the truth of Beato's game. Admitting the logic error would have certanitly hurt his chances of doing this. However, as long as he didn't stop trying to prove he understood Beato's game he would not die. Actually, since Beato is the one who actually solved the Logic Error, it's likely that BATTLER had succeeded in proving he understood Beato's game before the Logic Error had even occurred.
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** [[color:blue: That Red Truth you paraphrased is refering to meta!Battler, not piece!Battler. Battler is indeed the detective in the metaworld. However, on the gameboard Maria is the detective.]]
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Stop deleting my responses to your theories, jerk.
* Maria is not Erika. Maria's trauma is what caused her to ferociously involve herself in witch games in the first place, and there's nothing to suggest her character would change in such a dramatic way. Really, Maria and Erika have just about nothing in common whatsoever.
* [[color:red:Until Episode 5, Battler was the Detective.]] Then it was Erika, then Erika for a part of it and then no one.
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* Battler can't be an accomplice, he's the Detective. And there's no stakings so far in Chiru, so...
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* Why does anything need to explain? The conspiracy is plausible, realistic, and in line with the Ushiromiya family's sordid financial business. Amakusa is hardly an idealised boyfriend-figure (especially since he probably killed her), the bank vaults and codes and bottle letters are real...and it's not all that odd for someone to survive a fall like that if they bounce off of soft canopies like that. Besides, the "everything waa a dying dream" thing is cliche.
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*** Which results in death. That's not exactly what I meant by "escape".
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"Magic cannot do things you cannot do without magic" is one character's theory, And given that this is part of the When They Cry series a dubious one at that.
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There real intention was to show that Battler didn't understand the truth of Beato's game. The Logic Error they set up had a flaw he could have used to escape. Namely, he could have claimed his piece left the room using magic. Hwever, we know from the fifth game that Beato's games were solvable and that magic apparently doesn't count as a valid soloution. If Battler had used magic as the soloution the game would have continued until the end, but Lambda would judge thaqt Battler had not reached the truth of Beato's game. Thus, either returning things to how they were at the start of the fifth game, or giving Erika a chance to be the Game Master.
* [[color:red: Magic cannot do things you cannot do without magic,]] so no, it would not be a valid solution. The thing is, there's really no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, just like there's no unsolvable mystery. A Logic Error is proclaimed if the Game Master is unable to explain the trick, not when the trick is unexplainable.
* [[color:red: Magic cannot do things you cannot do without magic,]] so no, it would not be a valid solution. The thing is, there's really no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, just like there's no unsolvable mystery. A Logic Error is proclaimed if the Game Master is unable to explain the trick, not when the trick is unexplainable.
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There real intention was to show that Battler didn't understand the truth of Beato's game. The Logic Error they set up had a flaw he could have used to escape. Namely, he could have claimed his piece left the room using magic. Hwever, However, we know from the fifth game that Beato's games were solvable and that magic apparently doesn't count as a valid soloution. If Battler had used magic as the soloution the game would have continued until the end, but Lambda would judge thaqt that Battler had not reached the truth of Beato's game. Thus, either returning things to how they were at the start of the fifth game, or giving Erika a chance to be the Game Master.
*[[color:red: [[color:blue: Magic cannot do things you cannot do without magic,]] so no, it would not be a valid solution. The thing is, there's really no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, just like there's no unsolvable mystery. A Logic Error is proclaimed if the Game Master is unable to explain the trick, not when the trick is unexplainable.unexplainable.
** Of course there's no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, it's flat out stated that in order to escape the Game Master simply has to admit that the error exists.
*
** Of course there's no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, it's flat out stated that in order to escape the Game Master simply has to admit that the error exists.
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* [[color:red: Magic cannot do things you cannot do without magic,]] so no, it would not be a valid solution. The thing is, there's really no such thing as an inescapable Logic Error, just like there's no unsolvable mystery. A Logic Error is proclaimed if the Game Master is unable to explain the trick, not when the trick is unexplainable.
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[[WMG: Bern and Erika never intended to trap Battler in a Logic Error.]]
There real intention was to show that Battler didn't understand the truth of Beato's game. The Logic Error they set up had a flaw he could have used to escape. Namely, he could have claimed his piece left the room using magic. Hwever, we know from the fifth game that Beato's games were solvable and that magic apparently doesn't count as a valid soloution. If Battler had used magic as the soloution the game would have continued until the end, but Lambda would judge thaqt Battler had not reached the truth of Beato's game. Thus, either returning things to how they were at the start of the fifth game, or giving Erika a chance to be the Game Master.
There real intention was to show that Battler didn't understand the truth of Beato's game. The Logic Error they set up had a flaw he could have used to escape. Namely, he could have claimed his piece left the room using magic. Hwever, we know from the fifth game that Beato's games were solvable and that magic apparently doesn't count as a valid soloution. If Battler had used magic as the soloution the game would have continued until the end, but Lambda would judge thaqt Battler had not reached the truth of Beato's game. Thus, either returning things to how they were at the start of the fifth game, or giving Erika a chance to be the Game Master.
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*** As mentioned, his subconcious was working against him -- on some level, he ''didn't fully trust Beatrice''. He was going along with it because everyone seemed so ''happy'' and was headed for a Good End in the Golden Land, but at the same time, he wasn't fully convinced... just coasting along trying to ignore that nagging sense that something wasn't quite right. He still thought she was a manipulative sadist, but was trying to pretend otherwise because he felt SympathyForTheDevil. If he had signed, it would've been his loss, Evil!Beatrice would've 'shown her true colors', and it'd be a very BAD END for all involved.
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*** As mentioned, his subconcious was working against him -- on some level, he ''didn't fully trust Beatrice''. He was going along with it because everyone seemed so ''happy'' and was headed for a Good End in the Golden Land, but at the same time, he wasn't fully convinced... just coasting along trying to ignore that nagging sense that something wasn't quite right. He still thought she was a manipulative sadist, but was trying to pretend otherwise because he felt SympathyForTheDevil. If he had signed, it would've been his loss, Evil!Beatrice would've 'shown her true colors', TrueColors', and it'd be a very BAD END for all involved.
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Kanon is frequently and in an oddly deliberate manner compared to a cat. Bernkastel has a cat tail and at one point actually shows up as a cat. Kanon compares himself to a duck when talking to Jessica. Bernkastel said that she fell into Lambdadelta's trap like a duck in the extra Bernkastel's letter TIP. Bernkastel's obsessed with exposing Beatrice. Kanon expressed a former desire to "disclose her true colors" should he find her in the Gohda diary TIP, and still now dislikes her. He is also implied to be sneaking around throughout significant portions of the episodes - perhaps gathering clues? Both are also pretty calm, collected, and snarky, except when they get pissed.
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Kanon is frequently and in an oddly deliberate manner compared to a cat. Bernkastel has a cat tail and at one point actually shows up as a cat. Kanon compares himself to a duck when talking to Jessica. Bernkastel said that she fell into Lambdadelta's trap like a duck in the extra Bernkastel's letter TIP. Bernkastel's obsessed with exposing Beatrice. Kanon expressed a former desire to "disclose her true colors" TrueColors" should he find her in the Gohda diary TIP, and still now dislikes her. He is also implied to be sneaking around throughout significant portions of the episodes - perhaps gathering clues? Both are also pretty calm, collected, and snarky, except when they get pissed.
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Hello, and welcome to Wild Mass Guessing
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** Impossible. Maria is dead when Erika is alive. Erika is in other places when Maria is confirmed to be in another. Moreover, the 'Maria' piece isn't capable of disbelieving in magic.
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* [[color:red: Until now, you have been the detective, BATTLER. I won't allow you to DENY that!]] Moreover, there's no problem with Battler meeting Beatrice, if Beatrice is someone dressed up. And he "gave up" in Episode 2, so he wasn't the detective for that epilogue.
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* Impossible. [[color:red: The Detective cannot be the culprit or one of his accomplices,]] and as the Detective, his thoughts and intentions cannot be hidden from us. Moreover, the deed of staking is always already done when Battler arrives on the scene, and the only two episodes where he's NOT the detective, the Twilights are fake.
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* Not really. Since a lot of the information given in 1998 is validated later in the story, it would end up meaning Ange has psychic powers or some nonsense. Moreover, nothing in 1998 DOESN'T make sense, honestly, so there's no reason to invoke fantasy.
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**Impossible. Maria is dead when Erika is alive. Erika is in other places when Maria is confirmed to be in another. Moreover, the 'Maria' piece isn't capable of disbelieving in magic.
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* [[color:red: Until now, you have been the detective, BATTLER. I won't allow you to DENY that!]] Moreover, there's no problem with Battler meeting Beatrice, if Beatrice is someone dressed up. And he "gave up" in Episode 2, so he wasn't the detective for that epilogue.
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* Impossible. [[color:red: The Detective cannot be the culprit or one of his accomplices,]] and as the Detective, his thoughts and intentions cannot be hidden from us. Moreover, the deed of staking is always already done when Battler arrives on the scene, and the only two episodes where he's NOT the detective, the Twilights are fake.
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* Not really. Since a lot of the information given in 1998 is validated later in the story, it would end up meaning Ange has psychic powers or some nonsense. Moreover, nothing in 1998 DOESN'T make sense, honestly, so there's no reason to invoke fantasy.
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I wrote those as comments deliberately, 'k? no need to fix them
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EDIT: Paperweights? Hee!
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* Not seeing the connection. Can you elaborate, please?
** (Respondent here.) Seriously, who keeps dumping my requests for explanations, and why?
** (Respondent here.) Seriously, who keeps dumping my requests for explanations, and why?
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** (Respondent here.) Seriously, who keeps dumping my requests for explanations, and why?
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EDIT: So in this metaphor the voice on the telephone would be... Lambdadelta... OH HELL THE VOICE ON THE TELEPHONE WAS LAMBDADELTA
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* In addition to the 1st respondent's claim, I must remind you that Bern made Erika a [[strike:[[MarySue Mary]]]] JerkassSue with the purpose of winning the game after Battler decided to RageQuit because Lambda wouldn't let Beato resign the game and let Battler kill her like he was going to at the end of [=EP4=].
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[[WMG:Erika is Maria]]
As the 'Erika is Jessica' theory above, but:
* We know that Maria is ferociously intelligent.
* We know Maria has been through some fairly traumatic events which might cause her to act out against her former hippy-dippy witchy ways and replace them with a core of cold hard rationality.
* They ''look'' the same age.
* Erika's backstory, about the cheating boyfriend who she couldn't prove ''didn't'' love her, is a straight copy-paste of Maria's relationship with her mother.
* The throwaway line in Episode 1 about how children Maria's age spend a lot of time 'trying on' new personalities.
* Maria's 'witch battle' against Erika would suddenly be much more exciting.
It follows that...
[[WMG: Maria is the detective]]
Battler and Maria are almost never separated, so Battler's testimony is 'locked in' to the Detective's objective observations for most of the story. Maria is conveniently absent when Battler meets Beatrice in the flesh in Episodes 2 and 4, and also when he inspects the bodies in the shed in Episode 1, all events that are surounded with mystery and innuendo for other reasons.
There's precedent: Murder mystery tradition dictates that that detective be the smartest and most eccentric person in the room, and the narrator be their not-quite-so-smart sidekick.
[[WMG: The Mad Staker is...]]
None of the parents could do it. None of the kids could do it. None of the servants could do it. A Nanjo-Shannon alliance could ''almost'' do it. Jessica could just about do it, if you assume she managed to fake her death in "Turn of the Golden Witch".
But aren't we overlooking someone? Someone very close to the heart of the case, someone who is verifiably alive at the time of each staking, someone with ample opportunity to do the deed, perhaps while the camera is away focusing on another character?
[[color:red:Battler isn't a killer.]] But he makes one hell of an accomplice.
[[WMG: Stakers and Fakers]]
An odd thing happened to Hideyoshi in Episode 5. In a closed room, he lay down on the bed and was run through by a demon stake.
So it's a fake: a pretend murder to pressure Natsuhi. But... there's something ''bizzare'' about it. Why would the 'fakers' stumble across the exact same method of murder as the killer from the previous four episodes? There's nothing in the epitaph to suggest goetic stake murder: only a vague suggestion that body parts be 'gouged'. What are the odds of the 'fakes' reinventing the 'real' stakings they know nothing about?
So.
Somewhere there is a cardbord box. The box contains stakes (some of them cunningly halved so as to harmlessly appear to pierce a body), stage blood, stencils (for the quick printing of magic circles) and other tricks of the pseudo-witch trade. The box was either assembled by the real deal and found by the fakers, or assembled by the fakers and found by the real one. The latter sounds slighty more plausible -- it also fits the series theme of fake things become real.
[[WMG:1998 is a fantasy]]
Ange's persecution at the hands of a vast and faceless conspiracy, her flight across the nation in the company of her idealised boyfriend-figure, all that monkeying about with bank vaults and codes and bottle letters, did not exactly so to speak entirely honestly really... happen.
Like the man from ''An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge'', she escaped a fall that should have killed her, had many exciting adventures on the run, returned home, buried her demons and... suddenly broke out into a rash of fatal wounds. Turns out the whole adventure was a fantasy flashing before her eyes in the instant before she died.
I'd hate to pull the trigger on this 'nuclear option', but it sure would explain a bunch.
As the 'Erika is Jessica' theory above, but:
* We know that Maria is ferociously intelligent.
* We know Maria has been through some fairly traumatic events which might cause her to act out against her former hippy-dippy witchy ways and replace them with a core of cold hard rationality.
* They ''look'' the same age.
* Erika's backstory, about the cheating boyfriend who she couldn't prove ''didn't'' love her, is a straight copy-paste of Maria's relationship with her mother.
* The throwaway line in Episode 1 about how children Maria's age spend a lot of time 'trying on' new personalities.
* Maria's 'witch battle' against Erika would suddenly be much more exciting.
It follows that...
[[WMG: Maria is the detective]]
Battler and Maria are almost never separated, so Battler's testimony is 'locked in' to the Detective's objective observations for most of the story. Maria is conveniently absent when Battler meets Beatrice in the flesh in Episodes 2 and 4, and also when he inspects the bodies in the shed in Episode 1, all events that are surounded with mystery and innuendo for other reasons.
There's precedent: Murder mystery tradition dictates that that detective be the smartest and most eccentric person in the room, and the narrator be their not-quite-so-smart sidekick.
[[WMG: The Mad Staker is...]]
None of the parents could do it. None of the kids could do it. None of the servants could do it. A Nanjo-Shannon alliance could ''almost'' do it. Jessica could just about do it, if you assume she managed to fake her death in "Turn of the Golden Witch".
But aren't we overlooking someone? Someone very close to the heart of the case, someone who is verifiably alive at the time of each staking, someone with ample opportunity to do the deed, perhaps while the camera is away focusing on another character?
[[color:red:Battler isn't a killer.]] But he makes one hell of an accomplice.
[[WMG: Stakers and Fakers]]
An odd thing happened to Hideyoshi in Episode 5. In a closed room, he lay down on the bed and was run through by a demon stake.
So it's a fake: a pretend murder to pressure Natsuhi. But... there's something ''bizzare'' about it. Why would the 'fakers' stumble across the exact same method of murder as the killer from the previous four episodes? There's nothing in the epitaph to suggest goetic stake murder: only a vague suggestion that body parts be 'gouged'. What are the odds of the 'fakes' reinventing the 'real' stakings they know nothing about?
So.
Somewhere there is a cardbord box. The box contains stakes (some of them cunningly halved so as to harmlessly appear to pierce a body), stage blood, stencils (for the quick printing of magic circles) and other tricks of the pseudo-witch trade. The box was either assembled by the real deal and found by the fakers, or assembled by the fakers and found by the real one. The latter sounds slighty more plausible -- it also fits the series theme of fake things become real.
[[WMG:1998 is a fantasy]]
Ange's persecution at the hands of a vast and faceless conspiracy, her flight across the nation in the company of her idealised boyfriend-figure, all that monkeying about with bank vaults and codes and bottle letters, did not exactly so to speak entirely honestly really... happen.
Like the man from ''An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge'', she escaped a fall that should have killed her, had many exciting adventures on the run, returned home, buried her demons and... suddenly broke out into a rash of fatal wounds. Turns out the whole adventure was a fantasy flashing before her eyes in the instant before she died.
I'd hate to pull the trigger on this 'nuclear option', but it sure would explain a bunch.
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*** Respondent here. First off, can I request we drop the Alter word? It's technically outdated since modern models of DID don't hold that there's a "host" personality anymore, and it's actually sort of offensive to actual Multiples. Moving on, Beatrice's motives don't work here, because [[color:red: Beatrice did not kill because of money or revenge]], and these are pretty Vengeance-y motives. But then, I would argue that Beatrice is herself actually 100% innocent of all crimes, and is just martyring herself.
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[[WMG: Okonogi spoke of world peace for a reason.]]
It turns out that actually Kinzo's epitaph leads not just to the gold, controversial in itself, but also a secret cache of weaponry and multi-national secrets. The Ushiromiya family found them out, and if word got out, World War III would have broken out and caused the collapse of multiple governments of First World Nations all over the planet. Therefore, to keep this from happening, Shkannon, an orphan from Fukuin house (actually a secret plant for training shadow government assassin agents) was assigned with observing the Ushiromiyas and silencing them if things turned bad. Therefore, by killing the Ushiromiyas, the entire world was saved from nuclear fallout. It is for this reason that Beatrice martyred herself as a supernatural witch, as Shkannontrice felt sympathy for the family (especially Battler) and wanted them to die as heroes in service of mankind and it's future.
It turns out that actually Kinzo's epitaph leads not just to the gold, controversial in itself, but also a secret cache of weaponry and multi-national secrets. The Ushiromiya family found them out, and if word got out, World War III would have broken out and caused the collapse of multiple governments of First World Nations all over the planet. Therefore, to keep this from happening, Shkannon, an orphan from Fukuin house (actually a secret plant for training shadow government assassin agents) was assigned with observing the Ushiromiyas and silencing them if things turned bad. Therefore, by killing the Ushiromiyas, the entire world was saved from nuclear fallout. It is for this reason that Beatrice martyred herself as a supernatural witch, as Shkannontrice felt sympathy for the family (especially Battler) and wanted them to die as heroes in service of mankind and it's future.
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* Original poster here. I'll concede that the Beatrice personality manifested first. However I will argue Dine's 13th. The only way Dine's rule 13 as well as [[color:red:Dine's 12th: There can only be one murderer. The villain could have a helper or "co-plotter," but only one is going to get the ax in the matter.]] could apply is if there's only one 'killer'. Because of the possiblity of Kanon's stabbing being fatal I put forth that the Beatrice alter killed Krauss, Rosa, and Gohda without joining the conspiracy. For example, the three are sedated and about to be killed, then the Beatrice alter shows up, offers to kill them and demands that the conspiracy kills Shannon as well. This is preferable for the conspiracy because then thier hands are technically clean. They appease the alter with the fake Shannon body. This also explains how the bodies were transported. The conspirators transported the dead bodies and the fake ones into the tool shed. The Beatrice alter is the only 'killer' since after the first twilight only Kanon's murder is actually real. The alter only plays along because it only cares about being 'real' and killing Shannon and Kanon. It enjoys people saying that Beatrice 'exists'. At the end Natsuhi kills herself or is killed by the Beatrice alter who has dressed itself up to resemble the Beatrice portrait.
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* Original poster here. I'll concede that the Beatrice personality manifested first. However I will argue Dine's 13th. The only way Dine's rule 13 as well as [[color:red:Dine's 12th: There can only be one murderer. The villain could have a helper or "co-plotter," but only one is going to get the ax in the matter.]] could apply is if there's only one 'killer'. Because of the possiblity of Kanon's stabbing being fatal I put forth that the Beatrice alter killed Krauss, Rosa, and Gohda without joining the conspiracy. For example, The alter is triggered by stress, which I believe is true of real DID. The stress and conflicted emotions triggered the three are sedated and about Beatrice alter to be killed, then surface on the first night. The Beatrice alter shows up, up at the parents' meeting, offers to kill them/is told that if it kills them it'll be real and demands that the conspiracy kills Shannon as well. This is preferable for the conspiracy because then thier their hands are technically clean. They appease the alter with the fake Shannon body. This also explains how the bodies were transported. The conspirators transported the dead bodies and the fake ones into the tool shed. The Beatrice alter is the only 'killer' since after the first twilight only Kanon's murder is actually real. The alter manifests because of the stress Kanon feels that causes him to make his epic speech. In summation, the alter only plays along because it only cares about being 'real' and killing Shannon and Kanon. It enjoys people saying that Beatrice 'exists'. At the end Natsuhi kills herself or is killed by the Beatrice alter who has dressed itself up to resemble the Beatrice portrait.
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*Original poster here. I'll concede that the Beatrice personality manifested first. However I will argue Dine's 13th. The only way Dine's rule 13 as well as [[color:red:Dine's 12th: There can only be one murderer. The villain could have a helper or "co-plotter," but only one is going to get the ax in the matter.]] could apply is if there's only one 'killer'. Because of the possiblity of Kanon's stabbing being fatal I put forth that the Beatrice alter killed Krauss, Rosa, and Gohda without joining the conspiracy. For example, the three are sedated and about to be killed, then the Beatrice alter shows up, offers to kill them and demands that the conspiracy kills Shannon as well. This is preferable for the conspiracy because then thier hands are technically clean. They appease the alter with the fake Shannon body. This also explains how the bodies were transported. The conspirators transported the dead bodies and the fake ones into the tool shed. The Beatrice alter is the only 'killer' since after the first twilight only Kanon's murder is actually real. The alter only plays along because it only cares about being 'real' and killing Shannon and Kanon. It enjoys people saying that Beatrice 'exists'. At the end Natsuhi kills herself or is killed by the Beatrice alter who has dressed itself up to resemble the Beatrice portrait.
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* Good work, except for two minor points. 1) The Beatrice personality would have come first, and 2) [[color:red: Dine's 13th: No secret societies or conspiracies. The murderer, too, needs a sporting chance to outwit the detective.]]
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[[WMG: The solution the first sound novel is that there is not just one culprit, but a conspiracy]]
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[[WMG: The solution to the first sound novel is that there is not just one culprit, but a conspiracy]]
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[[WMG: The solution the first sound novel is that there is not just one culprit, but a conspiracy]]
This troper hasn't seen this anywhere else on this page, so I'll post here. This a Pro-Mystery solution to ''Legend of the Golden Witch'' that assumes that magic does not exist. There spoiler from the first sound novel as well as spoilers from later sound novels (including the seventh one) are also used to reach a conclusion. This is a long, complex theory and no spoiler tags are used. Read at your own risk.
''Part 1: The ones who are behind the twilights.'' The conspirators are Eva, Rudolph, Hideyoshi, Kyrie, Genji, & Dr. Nanjo. Why these six? Eva wants George to be family head. Hideyoshi supports his wife. Rudolph and Kyrie want money and more likely than not Kyrie was the only who had the ruthlesness to come up with the plan. Why include Eva and Hideyoshi? Because it is established that Eva and Rudolph are by far the closest of the four siblings. Genji and Dr. Nanjo are mentioned several times to be Kinzo's best friends. The reason they become part of the plan is becuase they don't believe the current heir, Krauss, is honoring thier best friend's memory. It's not hard to see one of the two (probably Dr. Nanjo) revealing to either Eva or Hideyoshi about being forced to cover up Kinzo's death.
''Part 2: The Witch's Letter.'' Included in this theory is that Shannon and Kanon are in the same body due to Dissociative Personality Disorder. Kanon is an alter that has only recently manifested since he was only 'employed' a couple years ago. Genji and Kumasawa are aware of this fact and actively cover it up. Possibly because they are protective of Shannon, who's been working as a maid since she was 6 and is bullied by Natsuhi. Notice that only scenes involving either Genji and/or Kumasawa do we also see Shannon and Kanon at the same time. Then possibly from the stress of Battler not remembering/honoring his promise towards Shannon a third personality surfaced. This second alter "Beatrice" is the one that gives Maria the Witch's Letter.
It is possible that Genji and Kumasawa are aware of this alter as well. After Maria reads the letter at dinner but before the meeting later that night between the parents is when the plan is hatched. If the murder of Krauss is believed by all to be the fault of the Witch Beatrice, then Eva can be head of the family without suspicion. This is why everyone needs to believe that witch is real.
''Part 3: The First Twilight.'' The first twilight victims were Krauss, Rosa, Gohda, and a body faked to be Shannon's. Both Rudolph's and Kyrie's deaths are faked. Krauss is the primary target. Rosa is killed becuase she's seen as threat to the plan. Gohda is killed becuase he is seen as Krauss' agent. A reason why Natsuhi is not in the first twilight is because of the unstable Beatrice alter. Shannon was patrolling the halls of the mansion when she saw golden butterflies which could've signified the Beatrice alter surfacing. But why? Becuase she sees Kruass, Rosa, and Gohda being murdered! This Beatrice joins the group of conspiraters and wants Kanon and Shannon dead so she can be 'real'. The fake Shannon body is prepared to appease this new conspirator Note that the fake Shannon body was probably not all that convincing, which is why Hideyoshi did not want anyone else to see it when the first twilight is discovered the next day, though Kanon does see it and is convinced she's dead. This symbolic killing of the Shannon personality also gives a reason why Shannon never resurfaces.
''Part 4: The Rest of the Twilights.'' All dead bodies with stakes in them are staged except for one. Dr. Nanjo is around to say that the staged deaths are genuine. Kinzo's body was cremated by one of the conspirators who have faked thier death. The only 'stake murder' that was not staged was Kanon's. As Kanon is pursuing whoever burned Kinzo's body, the Beatrice alter surfaces and tries to kill Kanon. Dr. Nanjo tries so desperately to save Kanon because this wasn't a part of the plan. It is also possible that Dr. Nanjo succeeds and fakes Kanon's death. After that is when everyone holes up in Kinzo's study. Either Dr. Nanjo, Genji, or Maria provide the Witch's Letter III which causes Natsuhi to kick them out of the study. Note that only Kumasawa actually protests leaving while Genji and Dr. Nanjo know this part of the plan and Maria is, well, deluded.
The final set of murders, with Maria singing facing the wall are also staged. It's not hard to imagine either Eva, Kyrie, or the Beatrice alter (if Kanon's body survived) dressing up as Beatrice to convince Maria to play along. Kumasawa is forced to become part of the conspiracy or die. Nobody actually inspects the three dead bodies all that closely. The final letter was a challenge to draw Natsuhi away from the children. Natsuhi either kills herself or is murdered. At the end Battler and the other see the costumed Beatrice, who Maria hugs. And that's where the Sound Novel ends.
This troper hasn't seen this anywhere else on this page, so I'll post here. This a Pro-Mystery solution to ''Legend of the Golden Witch'' that assumes that magic does not exist. There spoiler from the first sound novel as well as spoilers from later sound novels (including the seventh one) are also used to reach a conclusion. This is a long, complex theory and no spoiler tags are used. Read at your own risk.
''Part 1: The ones who are behind the twilights.'' The conspirators are Eva, Rudolph, Hideyoshi, Kyrie, Genji, & Dr. Nanjo. Why these six? Eva wants George to be family head. Hideyoshi supports his wife. Rudolph and Kyrie want money and more likely than not Kyrie was the only who had the ruthlesness to come up with the plan. Why include Eva and Hideyoshi? Because it is established that Eva and Rudolph are by far the closest of the four siblings. Genji and Dr. Nanjo are mentioned several times to be Kinzo's best friends. The reason they become part of the plan is becuase they don't believe the current heir, Krauss, is honoring thier best friend's memory. It's not hard to see one of the two (probably Dr. Nanjo) revealing to either Eva or Hideyoshi about being forced to cover up Kinzo's death.
''Part 2: The Witch's Letter.'' Included in this theory is that Shannon and Kanon are in the same body due to Dissociative Personality Disorder. Kanon is an alter that has only recently manifested since he was only 'employed' a couple years ago. Genji and Kumasawa are aware of this fact and actively cover it up. Possibly because they are protective of Shannon, who's been working as a maid since she was 6 and is bullied by Natsuhi. Notice that only scenes involving either Genji and/or Kumasawa do we also see Shannon and Kanon at the same time. Then possibly from the stress of Battler not remembering/honoring his promise towards Shannon a third personality surfaced. This second alter "Beatrice" is the one that gives Maria the Witch's Letter.
It is possible that Genji and Kumasawa are aware of this alter as well. After Maria reads the letter at dinner but before the meeting later that night between the parents is when the plan is hatched. If the murder of Krauss is believed by all to be the fault of the Witch Beatrice, then Eva can be head of the family without suspicion. This is why everyone needs to believe that witch is real.
''Part 3: The First Twilight.'' The first twilight victims were Krauss, Rosa, Gohda, and a body faked to be Shannon's. Both Rudolph's and Kyrie's deaths are faked. Krauss is the primary target. Rosa is killed becuase she's seen as threat to the plan. Gohda is killed becuase he is seen as Krauss' agent. A reason why Natsuhi is not in the first twilight is because of the unstable Beatrice alter. Shannon was patrolling the halls of the mansion when she saw golden butterflies which could've signified the Beatrice alter surfacing. But why? Becuase she sees Kruass, Rosa, and Gohda being murdered! This Beatrice joins the group of conspiraters and wants Kanon and Shannon dead so she can be 'real'. The fake Shannon body is prepared to appease this new conspirator Note that the fake Shannon body was probably not all that convincing, which is why Hideyoshi did not want anyone else to see it when the first twilight is discovered the next day, though Kanon does see it and is convinced she's dead. This symbolic killing of the Shannon personality also gives a reason why Shannon never resurfaces.
''Part 4: The Rest of the Twilights.'' All dead bodies with stakes in them are staged except for one. Dr. Nanjo is around to say that the staged deaths are genuine. Kinzo's body was cremated by one of the conspirators who have faked thier death. The only 'stake murder' that was not staged was Kanon's. As Kanon is pursuing whoever burned Kinzo's body, the Beatrice alter surfaces and tries to kill Kanon. Dr. Nanjo tries so desperately to save Kanon because this wasn't a part of the plan. It is also possible that Dr. Nanjo succeeds and fakes Kanon's death. After that is when everyone holes up in Kinzo's study. Either Dr. Nanjo, Genji, or Maria provide the Witch's Letter III which causes Natsuhi to kick them out of the study. Note that only Kumasawa actually protests leaving while Genji and Dr. Nanjo know this part of the plan and Maria is, well, deluded.
The final set of murders, with Maria singing facing the wall are also staged. It's not hard to imagine either Eva, Kyrie, or the Beatrice alter (if Kanon's body survived) dressing up as Beatrice to convince Maria to play along. Kumasawa is forced to become part of the conspiracy or die. Nobody actually inspects the three dead bodies all that closely. The final letter was a challenge to draw Natsuhi away from the children. Natsuhi either kills herself or is murdered. At the end Battler and the other see the costumed Beatrice, who Maria hugs. And that's where the Sound Novel ends.
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Adding a silly theory. This is a rather heavy page. Hahaha!
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Each retelling gets increasingly bizarre, with more 'magical' elements and characters added each time.
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* The Meta-World was [color:red: created for the purpose of being with Battler], not to convince him to accept magic.
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* The Meta-World was [color:red: [[color:red: created for the purpose of being with Battler], Battler]], not to convince him to accept magic.
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*** Close enough, yea. It was stated that defeating Erika would reveal a part of Beatrice's heart, after all, and Beatrice is a personification of the mystery.
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* Or she lied outright.
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* The Meta-World was [color:red: created for the purpose of being with Battler], not to convince him to accept magic.
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[[WMG: The meta-reality is total bullshit.]]
There isn't any reason to believe that it follows reality at all, or that Beatrice is ever telling the truth. In fact, the necessity of the creation of a specific universe with its own rules to "prove" that magic is real, instead of simply doing something else magical in the real world, speaks to this. Battler could just as easily avoid all this nonsense by destroying the meta-world by telling Beatrice to fuck off behind him, what what.
There isn't any reason to believe that it follows reality at all, or that Beatrice is ever telling the truth. In fact, the necessity of the creation of a specific universe with its own rules to "prove" that magic is real, instead of simply doing something else magical in the real world, speaks to this. Battler could just as easily avoid all this nonsense by destroying the meta-world by telling Beatrice to fuck off behind him, what what.
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She co-wrote them with someone else, but their partnership broke up for Reason X afterwards. This explains why the style of those two frogeries is so different from the style of her later forgeries.
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She co-wrote them with someone else, but their partnership broke up for Reason X afterwards. This explains why the style of those two frogeries forgeries is so different from the style of her later forgeries.
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[[WMG: Hachijo Toya wasn't the only author of ''Banquet'' and ''Alliance''.]]
She co-wrote them with someone else, but their partnership broke up for Reason X afterwards. This explains why the style of those two frogeries is so different from the style of her later forgeries.
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** Erika factored in the possibillity of other people when she set up the logic error. "[[color:red: I acknowledge that everyone else is in the cousins' room.]] That being said, if I understand you correctly you're saying "Erika is the 18th person" is the truth of ''Dawn'' and ''End''. While "There are only 17 people" is the truth of Rokkenjima-prime, right?
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[[color:red:This gameboard shall henceforth be split in two. One half shall be for the discussion of episodes of ''UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' that have been translated into the English language. The other half shall be for episodes not yet translated.]]
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[[color:red:This gameboard shall henceforth be split in two. three. One half third shall be for the discussion of episodes of ''UminekoNoNakuKoroNi'' that have been translated into the English language. The other half second third shall be for episodes not yet translated.translated. The last third shall be for theories regarding Colored Text.]]
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* If there were six people unaccounted for, then a Logic Error was never even at risk. If Erika knew there were more people, her blues would have been ineffective. Moreover, [[color:red: There are no more than 18 people. This applies to all games.]] The two Reds needn't necessarily be time-sensitive. While Eva-Beatrice's riddle was, there were many that explicitly weren't. Erika's red simply references how her presence boosts the initial number count by one (She can't "introduce" herself at any point but at the beginning of the game, see?) And Battler and Beato expose a part of Beatrice's heart, a little bit of the truth that supercedes all games: Even if Erika is here, the count would only be 17.
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** Not to mention that Izanami is voiced by Takano, who Lambdadelta is an {{Expy}} of. What's Izanami's special ability? [[OneHitKill To kill unfailingly!]]
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****** So far, I've made two arguments supporting my cliam that the difference (if any) between humans and people doesn't matter. Both of which rely on extra people being on the island, the various Love Duels (for example Chick!Beato and Lucifer's duel with Natsuhi) are sufficent evidence to satisfy Knox's 8th, as is Erika and Dlanor's conversation when the former discovered the lack of duct tape. Argument 1: [[color:blue:There were 23 people at the start of the sixth game. Erika was the 18th people (and that status doesn't change when the number of people changes). Erika murdered six people. Bringing the number of people down to 17. The red truths made at the end refer to the condition that the gameboard was in at 2:34 am on the second day.]] Nanjo's murder in the third game showed that the Red Truth is time sensitive. If you would claim that the last two Red Truths of the sixth game were not time sensitive you must present evidence to support that claim. Argument 2: [[color:blue:Both Red Truths are reffering to the start of the game. However, Beato and Battler were using base 13, in other words there were 20 (in base 10) people on the island. The statement 6*9=42 is sufficent to show that base 13 could have been used instead of base 10.]] I will now present a third argument which doesn't rely on any extra prople being on the island. Arguement 3: [[color:red:"I am Furudo Erika, the detective!!" Knox's 7th. It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit! Someone who appeared to be Erika stated in red, that she killed Rosa, Maria, Eva, Kyrie, and Natsuhi. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues!]] Therefore, Erika killed those five people. [[cololr:red: An exception clause to Knox's 7th was mentioned in the fifth game. An exception to Knox's 7th exists in real life namely Knox's 7th only applies if the author claims that the detective is in fact the detective. The resoloution to the logic error was written by Beatrice, ]] [[color:blue:thus making her one of the authors of Dawn]] [[color:red: and she acknowledged Erika as the detective using the white text. [[color:blue: This is sufficent to show that Erika couldn't have been acting under the exception clause. color:blue:This leads us to "Erika is the culprit." and "Erika cannot be the culprit." This contradiction can be resolved in two ways. One, they are reffering to two different people (i.e. Piece!Erika is the culprit, and Meta!Erika can't be culprit). Two, they are reffering to two different worlds (i.e. Erika is the culprit of the sixth game, and Erika cannot be the culprit of the fifth game. Thereofore the final two Red Truths of the sixth game refer to either different Erikas or more likely different worlds.
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****** So far, I've made two arguments supporting my cliam that the difference (if any) between humans and people doesn't matter. Both of which rely on extra people being on the island, the various Love Duels (for example Chick!Beato and Lucifer's duel with Natsuhi) are sufficent evidence to satisfy Knox's 8th, as is Erika and Dlanor's conversation when the former discovered the lack of duct tape. Argument 1: [[color:blue:There were 23 people at the start of the sixth game. Erika was the 18th people (and that status doesn't change when the number of people changes). Erika murdered six people. Bringing the number of people down to 17. The red truths made at the end refer to the condition that the gameboard was in at 2:34 am on the second day.]] Nanjo's murder in the third game showed that the Red Truth is time sensitive. If you would claim that the last two Red Truths of the sixth game were not time sensitive you must present evidence to support that claim. Argument 2: [[color:blue:Both Red Truths are reffering to the start of the game. However, Beato and Battler were using base 13, in other words there were 20 (in base 10) people on the island. The statement 6*9=42 is sufficent to show that base 13 could have been used instead of base 10.]] I will now present a third argument which doesn't rely on any extra prople being on the island. Arguement 3: [[color:red:"I am Furudo Erika, the detective!!" Knox's 7th. It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit! Someone who appeared to be Erika stated in red, that she killed Rosa, Maria, Eva, Kyrie, and Natsuhi. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues!]] Therefore, Erika killed those five people. [[cololr:red: [[color:red: An exception clause to Knox's 7th was mentioned in the fifth game. An exception to Knox's 7th exists in real life namely Knox's 7th only applies if the author claims that the detective is in fact the detective. The resoloution to the logic error was written by Beatrice, ]] [[color:blue:thus [[color:blue: thus making her one of the authors of Dawn]] [[color:red: Dawn]][[color:red: and she acknowledged Erika as the detective using the white text. text.]] [[color:blue: This is sufficent to show that Erika couldn't have been acting under the exception clause. color:blue:This color:blue: This leads us to "Erika is the culprit." and "Erika cannot be the culprit." This contradiction can be resolved in two ways. One, they are reffering to two different people (i.e. Piece!Erika is the culprit, and Meta!Erika can't be culprit). Two, they are reffering to two different worlds (i.e. Erika is the culprit of the sixth game, and Erika cannot be the culprit of the fifth game. Thereofore the final two Red Truths of the sixth game refer to either different Erikas or more likely different worlds.]]
