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Eliminated \"If You Know What I Mean\" sinkhole as part of Special Efforts cleanup.


* Grindelwald lost to [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean his other wand]].

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* Grindelwald lost to [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean his other wand]].wand.
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** Out of all the people you mentioned, only DD is a confirmed Gryffindor. Also, Mrs. Norris is a CAT.

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** Out of all the people you mentioned, only DD is a confirmed Gryffindor. Snape, and possibly Crouch, is a Slytherin. Also, Mrs. Norris is a CAT.

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** Out of all the people you mentioned, only DD is a confirmed Gryffindor. Also, Mrs. Norris is a CAT.



* Gryffs can see through the Cloak; Slyths don't even know that invisible spells xist, so they never bother to check. The Cloak works against DEATH, therefore DEATH is a Slytherin.

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* Gryffs can see through the Cloak; Slyths don't even know that invisible spells xist, exist, so they never bother to check. The Cloak works against DEATH, therefore DEATH is a Slytherin.
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[[spoiler: I actually had this thought while the movie played but assuming Nagini whom can't cast magic due to not being human and or have magical properties than this theory falls apart.]]

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[[spoiler: I actually had this thought while the movie played but assuming Nagini whom can't cast magic due to not being human and or have magical properties than this theory falls apart.]]]]


[[WMG: DEATH belongs to Slytherin House]]
* DEATH cannot see through Harry's cloak. DD, Moody, Crouch, Snape, Norris and such Gryffindors '''can''' see through. The Cloak only works versus children, squibs and Slyths.
* Slytherins do not even know '''that there is such a thing''' as an invisibility spell. POA cloaked Harry attacks Draco. Draco '''automatically''' assumes that it is ghosts, he never considers for an instant that the attack is from a Wizard with an invisible spell.
* DH: Ministry hunts Harry, they never think of putting anti-invisible Charms on the Ministry and Gringotts and the Secret Thaumonuclear Bunker.
* Gryffs can see through the Cloak; Slyths don't even know that invisible spells xist, so they never bother to check. The Cloak works against DEATH, therefore DEATH is a Slytherin.
** Draco knew about invisible spells in HBP, but he was sorted too soon. DH ends with the Malfoys being redeemed because of random wand rules, therefore they became Gryffs.
*** Slytherin =/= evil. Besides, despite their apparent HeelFaceTurn (or rather, they went from working for the BigBad to being neutral), Malfoy was still somewhat of a coward, although also somewhat intelligent - he was implied to be able to pick up new skills rather easily. Of course, all of that talent was hidden under his JerkAss personality and a laundry list of other character flaws. If he had been sorted anywhere else, it probably would have been Ravenclaw.
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[[WMG: In the movie continuity, ''Neville'' is the master of the Elder Wand.]]
Warning: spoilers for ''Deathly Hallows, Part 2''. [[spoiler: Firstly, this falls under the simple assumption that the Elder Wand doesn't work any differently than any other wand in regard to allegiance, because nothing of the sort is stated in the films to the best of my memory. Now, we've seen a number of disarmings in the movie continuity, with no mention or indication of wand allegiance. However, Ollivander does mention towards the beginning of ''Deathly Hallows, Part Two'' that Malfoy's wand is now allied to Harry's, after he defeated the former and took it. It can be extrapolated, then, that the allegiance of a wand does not come from simply taking it, but from defeating the wizard in question. In the infamous Astronomy Tower scene in ''The Half-Blood Prince'', Malfoy merely disarmed Dumbledore; Snape killed him. In the films, as in the books, Voldemort believes that Snape is the master of the Elder Wand and has him killed. But - and this is crucial - he does not do it himself, no doubt out of fear that the Elder Wand will rebel against him to protect its true master. But rather than simply using another wand, he has Nagini kill Snape. Nagini, a living entity with as much of a human soul within it as Voldemort itself.]]

[[spoiler: Throughout both parts of ''Deathly Hallows'', we see a phenomenon simply not present in the books; that Voldemort slowly falls apart as his Horcruxes are destroyed, implying that, rather than just anchoring his soul to the mortal plane, they are literally holding his body together. Cut to the end of ''Deathly Hallows, Part Two'', and Harry and Voldemort's epic final confrontation, climaxing in a final wand stalemate broken only by Neville swiftly slaying Nagini. Voldemort barely has time to fire one last Avada Kedavra before dying, apparently by his own curse rebounding. Yet we see no apparent signs of an actual rebounded curse; nor does Avada Kedavra cause an individual to explode into confetti. It seems far more likely that Voldemort's death was due to the death of Nagini. Nor is any mastery of the Elder Wand made apparent by Harry. Oddly enough, the scene where Harry uses the wand to repair his old one is completely omitted, leaving us with a movie where Harry did not once use the Elder Wand. Why, then, should we assume he mastered it?]]

[[spoiler: Putting all the pieces together, it seems far more likely that Snape, who ultimately bested Dumbledore (as Malfoy certainly wasn't going to kill him or seize his wand), did become the master of the Elder Wand, until mastery was taken from him by Nagini, who had every bit as much right to hold ownership of the wand as Voldemort, thanks to the piece of a human soul within him. Finally, Neville took the life of Nagini, making him the master of the wand. Voldemort did not die because Harry was the master of the wand; he, never the wand's master, could not overcome the wand stalemate between he and Harry, which lasted until his death, at which point Harry's Expelliarmus took effect and he seized the Elder Wand.]]

[[spoiler: Which means that he just snapped Neville's wand in two and tossed it off a bridge. Class act, Harry.]]

[[spoiler: I actually had this thought while the movie played but assuming Nagini whom can't cast magic due to not being human and or have magical properties than this theory falls apart.]]
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* Actually no. Dumbledore owned the Elder Wand, and at one point had borrowed the Cloak from James. But by the time he got his hands on the stone, Harry had had the cloak for some time. Since anyone would have been able to claim the Stone by that point one could argue Dumbledore was the 'owner' of that Hallow as well, though he later bequeathed it to Harry. Only the Elder Wand genuinely belonged to Dumbledore since he outright won it. The other two weren't truly his and he never had all three at once.

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* Actually no. Dumbledore owned the Elder Wand, and at one point had borrowed the Cloak from James. But by the time he got his hands on the stone, Harry had had the cloak for some time. Since anyone would have been able to claim the Stone by that point one could argue Dumbledore was the 'owner' of that Hallow as well, though he later bequeathed it to Harry. Only the Elder Wand genuinely belonged to Dumbledore since he outright won it. The other two weren't truly his and he never had all three at once.once.

[[WMG: Harry Potter was never the master of the Elder Wand.]]
Draco Malfoy was the master, wand ownership transfers only with magical defeat, and perhaps also non-magical murder in the case of the Elder Wand, but not via physical wand grabbing.

So why did the Elder Wand not kill him? Because it was facing another wand ''also owned by its master''. It was Draco's wand vs. Draco's wand, and the Elder Wand realized that first (It seems more sentient than other wands) and gave up.
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Not a literal example within the story of dying by falling into a literal river; Death probably wouldn't have cared that some random wizards thought to build a bridge and escape his grasp [[ScrewDestiny if fate is that easy to fight]]. Other wizards would likely have escaped his clutches many times if that was the case. However, if each brother used their magic to circumvent their destined deaths in much more ingenious ways, he might then choose to intervene.

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Not a literal example within the story of dying by falling into a literal river; Death probably wouldn't have cared that some random wizards thought to build a bridge and escape his grasp [[ScrewDestiny if fate is that easy to fight]]. Other wizards would likely have escaped his clutches many times if that was the case. However, if each brother used their magic to circumvent their destined deaths in much more ingenious ways, he might then choose to intervene.intervene.

[[WMG: The Tale of the Three Brothers is real.]]
Sure, Xenophilius offered the alternate theory that the three brothers were just very powerful magicians who made their own cloaks and wands and rings, but it doesn't quite gel with what we know about the magic in the series already.

1. The Elder Wand: We've been told time and again that wands are only as good as the wizard who uses them, and the real power comes from the wizard who wields the wand. So why suddenly is there a wand which miraculously makes peoples' magic stronger? Unless there's something about crafting wands which was forgotten in the hundreds of years since the Elder Wand was made, then it has to have come from somewhere else, and since it couldn't have been another wizard, Death is as good an explanation as any.

2. The Ring: This is literally the only item we've come across which can do this. The Priori Incantatem spells are after images of old spells, Voldemort's appearances are all linked to his soul, because he wasn't really dead, so where exactly does this ring come from? Who has the power to bring people back from the dead, even as some sort of after-image, that stays permanently? Death. The Ring makes people stay until the user wants them to go, Priori Incantatem only lasts for as long as someone's wand is pointed at yours.

3. The Cloak: Again, we're told repeatedly that invisibility cloaks either don't make you truly invisible or don't last forever, so why is there one that makes you completely invisible and has lasted for hundreds of years?

The gist is that there must be limits that human wizards and witches can't surpass when it comes to magic, no matter how skilled they are. If Dumbledore, Grindelwald, the founders of Hogwarts and more haven't been able to replicate the efforts of three wizards despite thousands of years of magical improvements, then where did these three items come from? The story of the three brothers meeting Death must be true, there isn't another explanation.

** Pretty much ''confirmed'' in-universe when Ron mentions that the Invisibility Cloak acts exactly as the tale describes, then Harry puts it together that he's descended from the third brother. (This becomes HilariousInHindsight when you realize that Harry and Voldemort are pretty much cousins seventy-times removed since Voldemort is descended of the SECOND brother) And then Dumbledore and Voldemort flat out prove the Elder Wand is real so the first brother also existed. Harry even proves the Stone is real when he uses the thing to summon his parents, Sirius, and Lupin. Since we know Voldemort's grandfather claimed direct lineage to the Peverell brothers as stated in book six and that there were three of them...well, do the math. The Peverell siblings are the three brothers in the tale and their encounter with Death happened.

[[WMG:The real reason Harry survived Voldemort's curse that destroyed the Horcrux within him was his mastery of the Deathly Hallows.]]
If the Deathly Hallows are real, then by theend of the book Harry is the master of all three -

1)He has earned and found and was the last person to use the Resurrection Stone, and even had the phantoms of his loved ones as created by the Stone with him when he was killed.

2)He owns and has in his possession the Invisibility Cloak, also given to him by Dumbledore and inherited legally from his father.

3)He has, according to the events later in the book, mastery even if not possession of the Elder Wand, which was also the wand used to kill him.

Thus he is the mastery of all 3 Hallows and according to the legend the master of Death itself. Voldemort's curse didn't kill him because he could not die. He then revokes his mastery when he rejects the Wand consciously later, presumably.

This also means that Dumbledore also had all 3 Hallows at some point, but I think not all at the same time, and he had only borrowed the Cloak.

* Actually no. Dumbledore owned the Elder Wand, and at one point had borrowed the Cloak from James. But by the time he got his hands on the stone, Harry had had the cloak for some time. Since anyone would have been able to claim the Stone by that point one could argue Dumbledore was the 'owner' of that Hallow as well, though he later bequeathed it to Harry. Only the Elder Wand genuinely belonged to Dumbledore since he outright won it. The other two weren't truly his and he never had all three at once.
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** Asha fell very ill during sunset, and wouldn't allow anyone to touch her. It was moonrise at the same time and she didn't want to hurt the others. Brilliant!
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*** To clarify everything here, Harry is clearly the master of the Elder Wand [[spoiler: as his defeat of Voldemort proves]] because if he was not then expelliarmus would not have worked against the killing curse. Also Harry did not master the Elder Wand with his own wand he did so when he took [[spoiler: Draco's]] wand from him physically, thus even if he is disarmed in a real duel it would be his holly and phoenix wand and not the Elder Wand which is in Dumbledore's tomb. The only way for him to lose the mastery of the Elder Wand is if he is killed because of the way he obtained the mastery over it, because I sincerely doubt he uses the wand that he used to defeat the Elder Wand.

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*** * To clarify everything here, Harry is clearly the master of the Elder Wand [[spoiler: as his defeat of Voldemort proves]] because if he was not then expelliarmus would not have worked against the killing curse. Also Harry did not master the Elder Wand with his own wand he did so when he took [[spoiler: Draco's]] wand from him physically, thus even if he is disarmed in a real duel it would be his holly and phoenix wand and not the Elder Wand which is in Dumbledore's tomb. The only way for him to lose the mastery of the Elder Wand is if he is killed because of the way he obtained the mastery over it, because I sincerely doubt he uses the wand that he used to defeat the Elder Wand.
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*** To clarify everything here, Harry is clearly the master of the Elder Wand [[spoiler: as his defeat of Voldemort proves]] because if he was not then expelliarmus would not have worked against the killing curse. Also Harry did not master the Elder Wand with his own wand he did so when he took [[spoiler: Draco's]] wand from him physically, thus even if he is disarmed in a real duel it would be his holly and phoenix wand and not the Elder Wand which is in Dumbledore's tomb. The only way for him to lose the mastery of the Elder Wand is if he is killed because of the way he obtained the mastery over it, because I sincerely doubt he uses the wand that he used to defeat the Elder Wand.
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** And Altheda was the one who ''really'' invented the Wolfsbane potion!
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* Strangely enough, i can totally see that.

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* Strangely enough, i can totally see that.that.

[[WMG: The river in the Tale of the Three Brothers that Death crosses for the Elder wand is not the literal river that the brothers tried to cross, but a metaphor for death.]]
Where else would Death get the [[IncrediblyLamePun styx]] to carve into the most lethal wand in all of existence? But puns aside, a wand from a tree beyond the veil would probably be ''much'' more potent, and definitely more resistant to "dying" from violence or old age ([[DoubleJeopardy again]]), than would a wand carved from a normal (albeit very, very old) tree.

[[WMG: The river in the Tale of the Three Brothers is a metaphor for death.]]
Not a literal example within the story of dying by falling into a literal river; Death probably wouldn't have cared that some random wizards thought to build a bridge and escape his grasp [[ScrewDestiny if fate is that easy to fight]]. Other wizards would likely have escaped his clutches many times if that was the case. However, if each brother used their magic to circumvent their destined deaths in much more ingenious ways, he might then choose to intervene.
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She's sickly, nothing can cure her, and she's totally the woobie.

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She's sickly, nothing can cure her, and she's totally the woobie.woobie.
* Strangely enough, i can totally see that.
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*** It doesn't work like that. Whether or not a wand changes allegiance has a lot more to do with the intent of the "defeat" than the actual act of disarming your opponent. If you're just fooling around or practicing or something, the wand stays with its rightful owner. If the wizards or witches are duelling with a serious, perhaps life-or-death intent to win, then the wand would change hands. Remember, wands basically have feelings here--imagine them as a shallow girlfriend who will go off with whoever seems to have the most power. It's not as simple as another boy simply yanking them away.
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* And they only bless people who have seen their collective form, see their individual form.
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**** Except Deathly Hallows explicitly mentions the wizarding superstition "wand of elder, never prosper," with that referring to the type of wood. Also note how the wand's decoration appears to be ''elderberries.''
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[[WMG: Asha]] from the fountain of Fair Fortune is a Werewolf.
* She's sickly, nothing can cure her, and she's totally the woobie.

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[[WMG: Asha]] [[WMG:Asha from the fountain of Fair Fortune is a Werewolf.
*
Werewolf.]]
She's sickly, nothing can cure her, and she's totally the woobie.
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*** It doesn't have to be consistent - Harry's not that bright and has never paid attention to magical theory (at least that's my Watsonian explanation for it never being explained).
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** Why not? This is a universe with wizards and witches, centaurs, phoenixes, basilisks, vampires, werewolves, accurate prophecies, soul-sucking demons, and an afterlife - is it so much of a stretch to believe that there might be a personification of death?
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* Obsidian- which is associated with the underworld.

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* Obsidian- which is associated with the underworld.underworld.

[[WMG: Asha]] from the fountain of Fair Fortune is a Werewolf.
* She's sickly, nothing can cure her, and she's totally the woobie.
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** Also, Yggdrasil is a mystical tree, with many variations in different cultures. I doubt it is always an ash tree.

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** Also, Yggdrasil is a mystical tree, with many variations in different cultures. I doubt it is always an ash tree.
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* The only problem with this is that Sirius is "younger by far than Harry had seen him in life", as is Lupin. This suggests that they are being presented as they were in the prime of life, rather than how they were when they died (necessarily). If they were created from Harry's memories, they would have looked how they looked when he knew them.
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** I would like to point out that being a Gryffindor does not necessarily get you the sword, acts of valor do.

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** I would like to point out that being a Gryffindor does not necessarily get you the sword, acts of valor do.do.

[[WMG: The Resurrection Stone is made from...]]
* Obsidian- which is associated with the underworld.
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** Also, Yggdrasil is a mystical tree, with many variations in different cultures. I doubt it is always an ash tree.
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Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.

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Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.
is the only Death I know of to reach this level of {{Jerkass}}.
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*** What if by elder she simply meant old, rather than specifying the type of tree it was made from? The book says "so Death crossed to an elder tree on the banks of the river." As Yggdrasil is indeed quite old, it qualifies as being called an elder tree, even if it is not part of the ''Sambucus'' genus.
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*** It's simple. The Elder Wand ''isn't'' invincible. Indeed the one consistent feature in the Elder Wand's history is that every single one of its owners is defeated and loses it. It has changed hands many more times than directly mentioned in the novels, and undoubtedly some, if not most of them, occurred in direct duels. The Elder Wand is just an unusually powerful wand, the user's own skill still matters. A sufficiently powerful opponent can overcome whatever advantage the Elder Wand gives. Dumbledore beat Grindelwald because he was just that good.

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*** * It's simple. The Elder Wand ''isn't'' invincible. Indeed the one consistent feature in the Elder Wand's history is that every single one of its owners is defeated and loses it. It has changed hands many more times than directly mentioned in the novels, and undoubtedly some, if not most of them, occurred in direct duels. The Elder Wand is just an unusually powerful wand, the user's own skill still matters. A sufficiently powerful opponent can overcome whatever advantage the Elder Wand gives. Dumbledore beat Grindelwald because he was just that good.
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*** It's simple. The Elder Wand ''isn't'' invincible. Indeed the one consistent feature in the Elder Wand's history is that every single one of its owners is defeated and loses it. It has changed hands many more times than directly mentioned in the novels, and undoubtedly some, if not most of them, occurred in direct duels. The Elder Wand is just an unusually powerful wand, the user's own skill still matters. A sufficiently powerful opponent can overcome whatever advantage the Elder Wand gives. Dumbledore beat Grindelwald because he was just that good.
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[[WMG:Death, from the Tale of the Three Brothers, is...]]
*Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}. Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.

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[[WMG:Death, from the Tale of the Three Brothers, is...is Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}.]]
*Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}. Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.
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[[WMG:Death, from the Tale of the Three Brothers, is Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}.]]
Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.

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[[WMG:Death, from the Tale of the Three Brothers, is Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}.is...]]
*Der Tod from {{Elisabeth}}. Death seems to be a {{trickster}} when he gives the deathly hallows to the Peverell brothers. He claims the lives of the older two brothers after they use their gifts foolishly. It sounds like something Der Tod would do.

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