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I have some (possibly) pretty good ideas for a new Legacy of Kain game. It will be an RPG game with characters that are mostly the new Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth, since Kain has been cured of the corruption by Raziel in ''Defiance''. Like in ''Soul Reaver I and II'', the main character will not be Kain, though, like in ''Defiance'', Kain will still be one of the playable characters. The main character will actually be a female vampire-hunter who happens to be a {{Dhampyr}}, which is the VERY first time in the series since there are '''''only''''' fully vampires and fully humans, and has an AmbiguousDisorder. And her allies will be the new Pillar Guardians, [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits who will be consisted of]]: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent A werewolf from one of the surviving tribes]], [[TheMorlocks A morlock-like soothsayer]], and a Romani girl who happens to be a {{Druid}}. I'm still working on that idea, but what do you guys think?

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I have some (possibly) pretty good ideas for a new Legacy of Kain game. It will be an RPG game with characters that are mostly the new Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth, since Kain has been cured of the corruption by Raziel in ''Defiance''. Like in ''Soul Reaver I and II'', the main character will not be Kain, though, like in ''Defiance'', Kain will still be one of the playable characters. The main character will actually be a female vampire-hunter who happens to be a {{Dhampyr}}, which is the VERY first time in the series since there are '''''only''''' fully vampires and fully humans, humans and has an AmbiguousDisorder.ambiguous disorder. And her allies will be the new Pillar Guardians, [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits who will be consisted of]]: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent A werewolf from one of the surviving tribes]], [[TheMorlocks A morlock-like soothsayer]], and a Romani girl who happens to be a {{Druid}}. I'm still working on that idea, but what do you guys think?

Changed: 180

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*** Kain has access to time travel, he could grab another different unpurified Soul Reaver, let his past self have the paradox fight, and still have his purified Reaver available.
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MAJOR SPOILERS ON PRETTY MUCH EVERY IMPORTANT PLOT POINT! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

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MAJOR SPOILERS ON PRETTY MUCH EVERY IMPORTANT PLOT POINT! [[Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
WARNED]]
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I have some (possibly) pretty good ideas for a new Legacy of Kain game. It will be an RPG game with characters that are mostly the new Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth, since Kain has been cured of the corruption by Raziel in ''Defiance''. Like in ''Soul Reaver I and II'', the main character will not be Kain, though, like in ''Defiance'', Kain will still be one of the playable characters. The main character will actually be a female vampire-hunter who happens to be a {{Dhampyr}}, which is the VERY first time in the series since there are '''''only''''' fully vampires and fully humans, and has an AmbiguousDisorder. And her allies will be the new Pillar Guardians, [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits who will be consisted of]]: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent A werewolf from one of the surviving tribes]], [[TheMorlocks A morlock-like soothsayer]], and a Romani girl who happens to be a {{Druid}}. I'm still working on that idea, but what do you guys think?

to:

I have some (possibly) pretty good ideas for a new Legacy of Kain game. It will be an RPG game with characters that are mostly the new Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth, since Kain has been cured of the corruption by Raziel in ''Defiance''. Like in ''Soul Reaver I and II'', the main character will not be Kain, though, like in ''Defiance'', Kain will still be one of the playable characters. The main character will actually be a female vampire-hunter who happens to be a {{Dhampyr}}, which is the VERY first time in the series since there are '''''only''''' fully vampires and fully humans, and has an AmbiguousDisorder. And her allies will be the new Pillar Guardians, [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits who will be consisted of]]: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent A werewolf from one of the surviving tribes]], [[TheMorlocks A morlock-like soothsayer]], and a Romani girl who happens to be a {{Druid}}. I'm still working on that idea, but what do you guys think?think?

[[WMG: Turel's soul reaver form is still canon.]]
The art of Turel's devolved form is what he looked like during the events of the Soul Reaver game, he further devolved into his Defiance form.
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edit reasonable excuse for Raziel's paradox



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** Agreeing with the general wording here, however the relationship of the the characteristics of paradoxes seems off canon. Kain more makes it seem like fate is non-negotiable, and anything outside of that CAUSES history to move around "whatever it is", taking souls and fate with it, basically leaving the paradox as-is to persist even WITHIN the altered currents. This doesn't change the WMG, but it was blurring the focus.
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add bleach/LOK crossover

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[[WMG: Kain joins the Soul Society]]
Mostly nonsense, not serious theory, but certainly possible in WMG spirit. So as Nosgoth degrades either from neglect or abuse at the hands of Kain or the Hylden, the pull on the wraith realm strengthens until it assimilates into Hueco Mundo. Kain, possessing the heart of darkness, hitches a ride on the Cleaner and into the Soul Society. Reaper Captain Yamamoto, wielding basically the sun in his Zapakuto, subjugates Kain, who bides his time as a reaper until he is powerful enough to reign supreme. I haven't worked out if Nosgoth gets pulled to Bleach dimension, or vice versa

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We learn in Defiance that Raziel is not the only one that immortal and unkillable. So is Kain. Earlier in the game Raziel comes to the conclusion that the Elder God did not revive him as he claims, but just happened to be there to use Raziel as his tool when Raziel came to. Raziel is immortal because Kain is immortal and Raziel was created with part of Kain's soul. This is also why Raziel has to be the one to kill his "brothers" because they are immortal as well. When they die Raziel absorbs their part of Kain's soul. Their immortality is shown with Dumah, who was impaled by the humans but he didn't die. He only moved to the spectral realm. And he gained the ability to move in both the Spectral Plane and the Material Plane exactly like Raziel when he was "killed". The only way to end Raziel and his brothers is for them to be absorbed back into one. Into Kain. When Raziel pushes the Purified Reaver into Kain he isn't just purifying his corruption with the Purified Balance Reaver, he is also restoring his entire soul. Repairing that which has been split asunder.

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We learn in Defiance that Raziel is not the only one that immortal and unkillable. So is Kain. Earlier in the game Raziel comes to the conclusion that the Elder God did not revive him as he claims, but just happened to be there to use Raziel as his tool when Raziel came to. Raziel is immortal because Kain is immortal and Raziel was created with part of Kain's soul. This is also why Raziel has to be the one to kill his "brothers" because they are immortal as well. When they die Raziel absorbs their part of Kain's soul. Their immortality is shown with Dumah, who was impaled by the humans but he didn't die. He only moved to the spectral realm. And he gained the ability to move in both the Spectral Plane and the Material Plane exactly like Raziel when he was "killed". The only way to end Raziel and his brothers is for them to be absorbed back into one. Into Kain. When Raziel pushes the Purified Reaver into Kain he isn't just purifying his corruption with the Purified Balance Reaver, he is also restoring his entire soul. Repairing that which has been split asunder.asunder.

[[WMG: An RPG game set 30 years after ''Soul Reaver'' (and 1130 years after ''Blood Omen 2'')]]
I have some (possibly) pretty good ideas for a new Legacy of Kain game. It will be an RPG game with characters that are mostly the new Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth, since Kain has been cured of the corruption by Raziel in ''Defiance''. Like in ''Soul Reaver I and II'', the main character will not be Kain, though, like in ''Defiance'', Kain will still be one of the playable characters. The main character will actually be a female vampire-hunter who happens to be a {{Dhampyr}}, which is the VERY first time in the series since there are '''''only''''' fully vampires and fully humans, and has an AmbiguousDisorder. And her allies will be the new Pillar Guardians, [[RagtagBunchOfMisfits who will be consisted of]]: [[OurWerewolvesAreDifferent A werewolf from one of the surviving tribes]], [[TheMorlocks A morlock-like soothsayer]], and a Romani girl who happens to be a {{Druid}}. I'm still working on that idea, but what do you guys think?
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Think about it. Janos Audron said it: The Pillars choose their guardians from birth; but the crux of the vampires' predicament is that they are no longer born, only sired. The curse made sure of that. Furthermore, by giving the vampires an unquenchable blood lust, the Hylden also made sure that the humans would eventually start their own crusades against the vampire race, including the original vampire Guardians. The curse made sure the Guardians would be killed, and it also made sure the Pillars would have to choose human replacements for them, susceptible to the plan the Hylden used to eventually corrupt the Circle and finally the pillars. Right from the very moment of their imprisonment, they planned every detail of their own eventual liberation.

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Think about it. Janos Audron said it: The Pillars choose their guardians from birth; but the crux of the vampires' predicament is that they are no longer born, only sired. The curse made sure of that. Furthermore, by giving the vampires an unquenchable blood lust, the Hylden also made sure that the humans would eventually start their own crusades against the vampire race, including the original vampire Guardians. The curse made sure the Guardians would be killed, and it also made sure the Pillars would have to choose human replacements for them, susceptible to the plan the Hylden used to eventually corrupt the Circle and finally the pillars. Right from the very moment of their imprisonment, they planned every detail of their own eventual liberation.liberation.

[[WMG: The Real Reason Raziel is immortal and unkillable]]
We learn in Defiance that Raziel is not the only one that immortal and unkillable. So is Kain. Earlier in the game Raziel comes to the conclusion that the Elder God did not revive him as he claims, but just happened to be there to use Raziel as his tool when Raziel came to. Raziel is immortal because Kain is immortal and Raziel was created with part of Kain's soul. This is also why Raziel has to be the one to kill his "brothers" because they are immortal as well. When they die Raziel absorbs their part of Kain's soul. Their immortality is shown with Dumah, who was impaled by the humans but he didn't die. He only moved to the spectral realm. And he gained the ability to move in both the Spectral Plane and the Material Plane exactly like Raziel when he was "killed". The only way to end Raziel and his brothers is for them to be absorbed back into one. Into Kain. When Raziel pushes the Purified Reaver into Kain he isn't just purifying his corruption with the Purified Balance Reaver, he is also restoring his entire soul. Repairing that which has been split asunder.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Think about it. Janos Audron said it: The Pillars choose their guardians from birth; but the crux of the vampires' predicament is that they are no longer born, only sired. The curse made sure of that. Furthermore, by giving the vampires an unquenchable blood lust, they also made sure that the humans would eventually start their own crusades against the vampire race, including the original vampire Guardians. The curse made sure the Guardians would be killed, and it also made sure the Pillars would have to choose human replacements for them, susceptible to the corruption the Hylden used to eventually corrupt the Circle and finally the pillars. Right from the very moment of their imprisonment, they planned every detail of their own eventual liberation.

to:

Think about it. Janos Audron said it: The Pillars choose their guardians from birth; but the crux of the vampires' predicament is that they are no longer born, only sired. The curse made sure of that. Furthermore, by giving the vampires an unquenchable blood lust, they the Hylden also made sure that the humans would eventually start their own crusades against the vampire race, including the original vampire Guardians. The curse made sure the Guardians would be killed, and it also made sure the Pillars would have to choose human replacements for them, susceptible to the corruption plan the Hylden used to eventually corrupt the Circle and finally the pillars. Right from the very moment of their imprisonment, they planned every detail of their own eventual liberation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes any laws of time travel]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox no matter for what reason]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to be spun within or outside of linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way.]]

to:

* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes any laws of time travel]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox no matter for what reason]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to be spun within or outside of linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way.]]]]

[[WMG: The Hylden didn't just curse the vampires out of spite, hatred or blind revenge. They didn't even do it to foil the Elder God. They specifically did it to foil the vampires' construction of the Hylden's own prison: the Pillars.]]
Think about it. Janos Audron said it: The Pillars choose their guardians from birth; but the crux of the vampires' predicament is that they are no longer born, only sired. The curse made sure of that. Furthermore, by giving the vampires an unquenchable blood lust, they also made sure that the humans would eventually start their own crusades against the vampire race, including the original vampire Guardians. The curse made sure the Guardians would be killed, and it also made sure the Pillars would have to choose human replacements for them, susceptible to the corruption the Hylden used to eventually corrupt the Circle and finally the pillars. Right from the very moment of their imprisonment, they planned every detail of their own eventual liberation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes any laws of time travel]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox no matter for what reason]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, or can't be outside of, be spun in linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.]]

to:

* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes any laws of time travel]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox no matter for what reason]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, to be spun within or can't be outside of, be spun in of linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.way.]]
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Original paradox when Kain wields the Reaver against William the Just, also wielding the Reaver. When Kain wields future Reaver against past Reaver there are multitudes of paradoxes that the blade must sustain. I'm saying sustain because whatever happens to William's Reaver will need to be evident in Kain's Reaver later, but simultaneously. Every strike will echo across the time and then back again to the Reaver in Kain's hands and each strike, limiting the paradoxical properties to not only to the time of the battle but to the entire time spanning the Reaver's existence after William's battle with Kain until the conclusion of the battle with it in Kain's hands. Alone the blade can NEVER strike itself because it can never BE anywhere else, other than where it is, let alone as another of itself to do so. Since Kain makes this possible through time travel, the Reaver must gain some perverted form of free will at Kain's hand. More specifically, the blade then represents the purest form of rebellion, in the form of perverted free will, against the properties of fate as set by the timeline, and I believe never loses this property of, this familiarity with, tampering with entire actions and events regarding 'fate', as it were. The Reaver would NEVER possess Raziel's soul until Raziel, with his soul draining ability and wraith blade, die in the presence of the Reaver. If Kain handed him the Reaver, and then killed him somehow, ([[KungFuProofMook "or if Raziel died any other way wielding the Reaver himself"]] during gameplay) the Reaver would absorb the wraith blade and Raziel as he died, even with it in his own hands. Kain would then, at some point, obtain the un-purified Reaver to continue with the plotwe are all familiar with, taunting and mocking the fool Raziel at every step, bloodrage over Moebius' petty, childlike meddling, burning over his every motive.

to:

Original paradox when Kain wields the Reaver against William the Just, also wielding the Reaver. When Kain wields future Reaver against past Reaver there are multitudes of paradoxes that the blade must sustain. I'm saying sustain because whatever happens to William's Reaver will need to be evident in Kain's Reaver later, but simultaneously. Every strike will echo across the time and then back again to the Reaver in Kain's hands and each strike, limiting the paradoxical properties to not only to the time of the battle but to the entire time spanning the Reaver's existence after William's battle with Kain until the conclusion of the battle with it in Kain's hands. Alone the blade can NEVER strike itself because it can never BE anywhere else, other than where it is, let alone as another of itself to do so. Since Kain makes this possible through time travel, the Reaver must gain some perverted form of free will at Kain's hand. More specifically, the blade then represents the purest form of rebellion, in the form of perverted free will, against the properties of fate as set by the timeline, and I believe never loses this property of, this familiarity with, tampering with entire actions and events regarding 'fate', as it were. The Reaver would NEVER possess Raziel's soul until Raziel, with his soul draining ability and wraith blade, die in the presence of the Reaver. If Kain handed him the Reaver, and then killed him somehow, ([[KungFuProofMook "or or if Raziel died any other way wielding the Reaver himself"]] himself]] during gameplay) the Reaver would absorb the wraith blade and Raziel as he died, even with it in his own hands. Kain would then, at some point, obtain the un-purified Reaver to continue with the plotwe are all familiar with, taunting and mocking the fool Raziel at every step, bloodrage over Moebius' petty, childlike meddling, burning over his every motive.



[[spoiler:Raziel's own soul as his wraith blade]] is excusable with one redundant statement: It [[spoiler: can't be Raziel's SAME soul because it's NOT Raziel's same soul]]History abhors a paradox, buuuuuut not in this case. If time and history act as Kain says, flowing around paradoxes, then what event could really lead to Raziel's paradox? And what does it have to do with the fact that individuals and their experiences are somehow [[RippleProofMemory "immune"]] ? How can time and history know how to adjust without already having fundamental understanding of paradoxes?
* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes "any laws of time travel"]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox "no matter for what reason"]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, or can't be outside of, be spun in linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.]]

to:

[[spoiler:Raziel's own soul as his wraith blade]] is excusable with one redundant statement: It [[spoiler: can't be Raziel's SAME soul because it's NOT Raziel's same soul]]History abhors a paradox, buuuuuut not in this case. If time and history act as Kain says, flowing around paradoxes, then what event could really lead to Raziel's paradox? And what does it have to do with the fact that individuals and their experiences are somehow [[RippleProofMemory "immune"]] immune]] ? How can time and history know how to adjust without already having fundamental understanding of paradoxes?
* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to [[TimeTravelTropes "any any laws of time travel"]], travel]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox "no no matter for what reason"]].reason]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, or can't be outside of, be spun in linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.]]
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[[spoiler:Raziel's own soul as his wraith blade]] is excusable with one redundant statement: It [[spoiler: can't be Raziel's SAME soul because it's NOT Raziel's same soul]]History abhors a paradox, buuuuuut not in this case. If time and history act as Kain says, flowing around paradoxes, then what event could really lead to Raziel's paradox? And what does it have to do with the fact that individuals and their experiences are somehow [[RippleProofMemory "immune"]]? How can time and history know how to adjust without already having fundamental understanding of paradoxes?

to:

[[spoiler:Raziel's own soul as his wraith blade]] is excusable with one redundant statement: It [[spoiler: can't be Raziel's SAME soul because it's NOT Raziel's same soul]]History abhors a paradox, buuuuuut not in this case. If time and history act as Kain says, flowing around paradoxes, then what event could really lead to Raziel's paradox? And what does it have to do with the fact that individuals and their experiences are somehow [[RippleProofMemory "immune"]]? "immune"]] ? How can time and history know how to adjust without already having fundamental understanding of paradoxes?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to AnyLawsOfTimeTravel, they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox "no matter for what reason"]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, or can't be outside of, be spun in linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.]]

to:

* SPOILERS AHEAD!-----> First, in general, two things can't exist at the same time in the same place, but, apparently, according to AnyLawsOfTimeTravel, [[TimeTravelTropes "any laws of time travel"]], they CAN exist in the same time but not the same place, no matter how they get there, no matter for how long, and in some cases [[GrandfatherParadox "no matter for what reason"]]. The souls can be respun into new lives but there's nothing in canon that says they are going to, or can't be outside of, be spun in linear time. Raziel and Kain can postulate all and as they wish but it doesn't change the fact that [[spoiler: greater forces can manipulate their very souls and use and place them in any way they wish.]]

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