History WMG / HomestuckGuardians

29th Mar '15 6:12:55 PM nombretomado
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Plus, it'd give a whole new reason behind his name being [[TheFairlyOddParents Mr. Crocker]]: Nobody but him knows about the Old Universe. Nobody'd believe him, either.

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Plus, it'd give a whole new reason behind his name being [[TheFairlyOddParents [[WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents Mr. Crocker]]: Nobody but him knows about the Old Universe. Nobody'd believe him, either.
16th Apr '12 12:10:23 PM Altimadark
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG: Dad is a clone (ectobiological or otherwise) of Colonel Sassacre]]
They're the same height, the same build; hoot, even their noses are identical. It would explain why there's such a strong resemblance despite the fact that John/Poppop and Nanna/Jane aren't his blood relatives at all, and would also explain why he looks ''exactly'' the same in both timelines, despite the fact that he clearly has different parents. Of note, while Nanna mentions that she [[http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005856 started a family]], she doesn't actually say she gave birth...
12th Apr '12 6:39:23 PM Bligue
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1st Apr '12 4:49:40 PM dresdenfanvm
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1st Apr '12 4:41:54 PM dresdenfanvm
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Added DiffLines:

[[WMG:Dad is going to be used as a material in a first guardian at some point.]]
*Look at the first guardians and how they were created so far: Doc Scratch was made partially from Lil' Cal, an object with significance to Bro and Dave. Bec has Harley's genes, and is thus linked to Jade and her Grandpa. Gcat hasn't had anything confirmed yet, but I would bet money he's got something to do with Jaspers. So, what is there a significant link to in John's life that would be sentient enough to form a first guardian? Dad. Any other links John has to someone or something who is not a player in a session are to non-sentient objects, and Dad is mysterious enough to work.
25th Mar '12 1:59:02 PM Katana
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*** Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.

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*** Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.\\



2) While this argument is valid for Bec, [=GCat=] has no strong emotional connection demonstrated to any of the Kids. Moreover, Bec and [=GCat=] aren't sentient, so they can't really have motives! Animals can however obey orders; even Bec's prototyping of himself to save Jade was in and of itself preserving the Alpha Timeline. \\

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2) While this argument is valid for Bec, [=GCat=] has no strong emotional connection demonstrated to any of the Kids. Moreover, Bec and [=GCat=] aren't sentient, so they can't really have motives! Animals can however obey orders; orders, and even Bec's prototyping of himself to save Jade was in and of itself preserving the Alpha Timeline.Timeline, meaning these things aren't mutually exclusive. \\
25th Mar '12 1:57:39 PM Katana
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***** I've tried my best to offer counter arguments, but you haven't listened. That's why I keep going over them. Your "overwhelming evidence" boils down to a few shaky arguments. \\

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***** ** I've tried my best to offer counter arguments, but you haven't listened. That's why I keep going over them. Your "overwhelming evidence" boils down to a few shaky arguments. \\




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*** Rebumped chat back for coherency. Point by point.
1) While Cal himself is a "jUjU", there is no indication that English cannot play out a similar role with another FG. Scratch was a puppet used as a weapon, so [=GCat=] and Bec might just be animals obeying their masters. Just because the motif exists with Scratch and English doesn't mean that's what must ''always'' exist.\\
2) While this argument is valid for Bec, [=GCat=] has no strong emotional connection demonstrated to any of the Kids. Moreover, Bec and [=GCat=] aren't sentient, so they can't really have motives! Animals can however obey orders; even Bec's prototyping of himself to save Jade was in and of itself preserving the Alpha Timeline. \\
3) This depends on the assumption that Lord English varies his appearance based on Universes, and there is not simply one Lord English. Given that Andrew referred to English being the Troll's conception of death and an agent of their mythology, this assumption does carry some weight, as Humanity's conception of death is markedly different from the Troll's, and that could presumably extend to others. Look at for instance Anubis, a god of the dead whom a LE with Bec's ears would heavily resemble.\\
4) I never meant to undergo ConfirmationBias, though you apparently think I did. I merely am cautious at taking Doc's words at face value, especially words mentioned all of ''once'' in a sequence that was heavily symbolic (the calling card). Moreover part of our diagreement is about Doc's reference to his "counterparts" which you take to mean "Doc Scratch" and I take to mean "First Guardian". Neither of these are incorrect, and from the evidence in front of us at this time, neither can be proven or disproven.\\
Closing: My argument boils down to this. We know Doc Scratch is connected with LE, and that in other sessions, First Guardians are created by agents of Derse, which is very loosely allied with Lord English (Feferi's Lusus, Snowman, Destruction etc). First Guardians prepare a planet for Sburb, ''AndThenWhat''. Once a session has entered, a First Guardian's purpose is complete. We have no idea what happens after that stage, though in Doc's case he became Lord English. It's not that much of a stretch to believe that is the natural fate of any First Guardian, not necessarily that it ''must'' be an alternate of Doc Scratch. Moreover, in every case of FG that we have seen thus far, they are based on a tool or an animal, something that naturally can be subservient to a master. \\




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* It would have to be Sassacre, as that seems to genuinely be his name, rather than Sam Clemens.
22nd Mar '12 11:21:45 AM Kurtulmak
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* Doubtful, though, considering that Bro doesn't show any signs of possessing future tech beyond his rocket board.
11th Mar '12 5:01:58 PM JET73L
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[[WMG: Nanna's maiden name was [[InsertNameHere ????]] [[MarkTwain Clemens]].]]

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[[WMG: Nanna's maiden name was [[InsertNameHere [[HelloInsertNameHere ????]] [[MarkTwain Clemens]].]]
11th Mar '12 4:59:59 PM JET73L
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[[WMG: Nanna's maiden name was ???? [[MarkTwain Clemens]].]]
In the Alpha universe, Jane's (and likely but not necessarily Jade's) surname is Crocker, but the Batterwitch has her hooks deeper into things over there than she ever did in the Beta universe. It's quite possible that Nanna was originally given her adoptive father's name,and her active rebellion and love of japery may have led her to keep (or, later in life, re-acquire) her late adoptive father's surname.

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[[WMG: Nanna's maiden name was ???? [[InsertNameHere ????]] [[MarkTwain Clemens]].]]
In the Alpha universe, Jane's (and likely but not necessarily Jade's) surname is Crocker, but the Batterwitch has her hooks deeper into things over there than she ever did in the Beta universe. It's quite possible that Nanna was originally given her adoptive father's name,and her active rebellion and love of japery may have led her to keep (or, later in life, re-acquire) her late adoptive father's surname.
surname.\\
On a vaguely related note from the vantage point of another universe, Jane Twain [[UnfortunateNames would have been a horrible name to have the option of choosing over Jane Crocker]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WMG.HomestuckGuardians