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* He's setting it up so the potential 'successors' of Vimes, Carrot, Lipwig, and the Guilds are all propped on each other and holding each other up, so that any bids for power will collapse the whole affair. Part house of cards, part crab bucket.
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[[WMG: Vetinari isn't grooming a successor at all. Instead, he's making it so the city doesn't need him.]]
He's controlled everything under the guilds, uses the Watch to keep an eye on them, and is rebuilding the public services, right down to the Post Office and unsnarling the traffic problems. He's making it so the city works, and that keeping it working is in everybody's best interest. Indeed, so that the city will act to keep itself stable and working, without him needing to threaten anyone with an eyebrow.
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* It seems more likely that Heretofore might be offered the role of head tax collector given how Vetinari is clearly thinking of having someone new take up that job not long after mentioning Heretofore (granted, he also discussed Most in that conversation, but later books indicate Most wasn't given the job of tax collector).

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* It seems more likely that Heretofore might be offered the role of head tax collector given how Vetinari is clearly thinking of having someone new take up that job not long after mentioning Heretofore (granted, he also discussed Most Moist in that conversation, but later books indicate Most Moist wasn't given the job of tax collector).
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* It's possible Heretofore could be the secretary to his protege, Moist von Lipwig (although this is possibly tossed by him not appearing in ''Literature/RaisingSteam''). Heretofore has already demonstrated an ability to mimic the postion of Drumknott, and an absolutely unflappable adjutant is something Moist will require as Patrician. He will also need an expert commander of the Watch, and for that he will have one Carrot Ironfoundersson.

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* It's possible Heretofore could be the secretary to his protege, Moist von Lipwig (although this is possibly tossed by him not appearing in ''Literature/RaisingSteam''). Heretofore has already demonstrated an ability to mimic the postion position of Drumknott, and an absolutely unflappable adjutant is something Moist will require as Patrician. He will also need an expert commander of the Watch, and for that he will have one Carrot Ironfoundersson.

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Adding some speculation about Heretofore and hiding some stuff specualting on who is being groomed to take over the Watch which, while interesting and legitamite stuff that I'm reluctant to remove, feels like it belongs on a different WMG page than this one.


* Quite possibly as the secretary to his protege, Moist von Lipwig. Heretofore has already demonstrated an ability to mimic the postion of Drumknott, and an absolutely unflappable adjutant is something Moist will require as Patrician. He will also need an expert commander of the Watch, and for that he will have one Carrot Ironfoundersson.
** this trooper must disagree with this idea as Carrot wouldn't take the job, to quote men at arms "they shouldn't do it just because corporal Carrot says so. just because corporal Carrot is ... good at being obeyed"
* Then again, Angua has since been made up to Captain and even Pessimal is showing competence as a Watch officer - he is now an Inspector - so there are two other potential sucessors as Watch commander if Carrot declines. And in ''Snuff'', Carrot is prepared to take over as ''acting'' Watch commander in the absence of Vimes, so perhaps his oppposition is fading?
** Personally it seems that Carrot didn't want to take charge of the watch then, because everyone would follow Carrot, not their commanding officer. By now the Watch has enough inertia from Vimes that being part of the Watch is all the reason needed to obey WHOEVER is in charge, whether or not it's Carrot.
** Angua would be the logical choice. She's not only extremely competent and appealing to a large segment of Ankh-Morpork society (upper-class birth, an immigrant done good, a racial minority for those in-the-know), but she's the only Watch member besides Vimes who can realistically expect to tell Carrot what to do and make it stick.

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* Quite possibly as It seems more likely that Heretofore might be offered the role of head tax collector given how Vetinari is clearly thinking of having someone new take up that job not long after mentioning Heretofore (granted, he also discussed Most in that conversation, but later books indicate Most wasn't given the job of tax collector).
* It's possible Heretofore could be
the secretary to his protege, Moist von Lipwig.Lipwig (although this is possibly tossed by him not appearing in ''Literature/RaisingSteam''). Heretofore has already demonstrated an ability to mimic the postion of Drumknott, and an absolutely unflappable adjutant is something Moist will require as Patrician. He will also need an expert commander of the Watch, and for that he will have one Carrot Ironfoundersson.
**
Ironfoundersson.

%%**
this trooper must disagree with this idea as Carrot wouldn't take the job, to quote men at arms "they shouldn't do it just because corporal Carrot says so. just because corporal Carrot is ... good at being obeyed"
* %%* Then again, Angua has since been made up to Captain and even Pessimal is showing competence as a Watch officer - he is now an Inspector - so there are two other potential sucessors as Watch commander if Carrot declines. And in ''Snuff'', Carrot is prepared to take over as ''acting'' Watch commander in the absence of Vimes, so perhaps his oppposition is fading?
** %%** Personally it seems that Carrot didn't want to take charge of the watch then, because everyone would follow Carrot, not their commanding officer. By now the Watch has enough inertia from Vimes that being part of the Watch is all the reason needed to obey WHOEVER is in charge, whether or not it's Carrot.
** %%** Angua would be the logical choice. She's not only extremely competent and appealing to a large segment of Ankh-Morpork society (upper-class birth, an immigrant done good, a racial minority for those in-the-know), but she's the only Watch member besides Vimes who can realistically expect to tell Carrot what to do and make it stick.
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[[AC: {{WMG}}s for Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/GoingPostal and Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/MakingMoney. Warning: Potential unmarked spoilers.]]

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[[AC: {{WMG}}s for Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/GoingPostal Literature/GoingPostal and Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/MakingMoney.Literature/MakingMoney. Warning: Potential unmarked spoilers.]]



In more recent books, Vimes has started to show a streak of [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bastardry]], which he even remarks on in Discworld/{{Thud}}. Knowing that Vetinari takes a personal interest in his development, it seems quite plausible that this was his intended goal all along. Vimes and Moist represent different elements of what makes his style of government successful. Vimes is focused, has a clear sense of right and wrong, is absolutely incorruptible and has a talent at upsetting established power players, but can be a bit hard-headed. Moist is a born con-man, good at manipulating people and getting them to like him and thinks outside the box all the time, but he's flighty and unreliable unless forced to focus on one task. It's possible that Vetinari either intends to make them compete indirectly to show which one would make a better successor or split up his power between them eventually. Also note how, in his interactions with each of them, he seems to channel the spirit of the other. With Vimes, he's gratuitously obfuscating and manipulative, almost trickster-like, while with Moist, he's a stern authority figure.

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In more recent books, Vimes has started to show a streak of [[MagnificentBastard Magnificent Bastardry]], which he even remarks on in Discworld/{{Thud}}.Literature/{{Thud}}. Knowing that Vetinari takes a personal interest in his development, it seems quite plausible that this was his intended goal all along. Vimes and Moist represent different elements of what makes his style of government successful. Vimes is focused, has a clear sense of right and wrong, is absolutely incorruptible and has a talent at upsetting established power players, but can be a bit hard-headed. Moist is a born con-man, good at manipulating people and getting them to like him and thinks outside the box all the time, but he's flighty and unreliable unless forced to focus on one task. It's possible that Vetinari either intends to make them compete indirectly to show which one would make a better successor or split up his power between them eventually. Also note how, in his interactions with each of them, he seems to channel the spirit of the other. With Vimes, he's gratuitously obfuscating and manipulative, almost trickster-like, while with Moist, he's a stern authority figure.



* In ''Discworld/RaisingSteam'', it's mentioned that Leonard is still around. It does seem like Leonard's situation is essentially the forerunner of the whole "rehabilitation" system in spirit if not specifics, though, which is pretty neat. Same deal with Moist, even, in a loose sense. Maybe Leonard and Owlswick are neighbors now; they'd probably get along well.

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* In ''Discworld/RaisingSteam'', ''Literature/RaisingSteam'', it's mentioned that Leonard is still around. It does seem like Leonard's situation is essentially the forerunner of the whole "rehabilitation" system in spirit if not specifics, though, which is pretty neat. Same deal with Moist, even, in a loose sense. Maybe Leonard and Owlswick are neighbors now; they'd probably get along well.



Maurice from ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedRodents'' recalls having known a blind cat who walked into doors a lot. Tiddles ''acts'' blind and walks into doors if they're not opened for him, and there can't be many places in Ankh-Morpork where a cat that oblivious can survive. If Maurice met Tiddles before the former became Amazing, he could easily have concluded Tiddles really was blind, simply by how he behaves.

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Maurice from ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedRodents'' ''Literature/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedRodents'' recalls having known a blind cat who walked into doors a lot. Tiddles ''acts'' blind and walks into doors if they're not opened for him, and there can't be many places in Ankh-Morpork where a cat that oblivious can survive. If Maurice met Tiddles before the former became Amazing, he could easily have concluded Tiddles really was blind, simply by how he behaves.
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** Kill? Like a common murderer? Surely you mean ''inhume''.
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** In ''Discworld/RaisingSteam'', it's mentioned that Leonard is still around. It does seem like Leonard's situation is essentially the forerunner of the whole "rehabilitation" system in spirit if not specifics, though, which is pretty neat. Same deal with Moist, even, in a loose sense. Maybe Leonard and Owlswick are neighbors now; they'd probably get along well.

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** * In ''Discworld/RaisingSteam'', it's mentioned that Leonard is still around. It does seem like Leonard's situation is essentially the forerunner of the whole "rehabilitation" system in spirit if not specifics, though, which is pretty neat. Same deal with Moist, even, in a loose sense. Maybe Leonard and Owlswick are neighbors now; they'd probably get along well.
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** In ''Discworld/RaisingSteam'', it's mentioned that Leonard is still around. It does seem like Leonard's situation is essentially the forerunner of the whole "rehabilitation" system in spirit if not specifics, though, which is pretty neat. Same deal with Moist, even, in a loose sense. Maybe Leonard and Owlswick are neighbors now; they'd probably get along well.
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* In ''Going Postal'', Mr Pump says this about Adora Bell: "Anghammarad Said She Reminded Him of Lela The Volcano Goddess, Who Smokes All The Time Because The God Of Rain Has Rained On Her Lava." And in ''Wintersmith'', Anoia says "I used to be a volcano goddess [...] and the god of storms was always raining on my lava."

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* In ''Going Postal'', Mr Pump says this about Adora Bell: Belle: "Anghammarad Said She Reminded Him of Lela The Volcano Goddess, Who Smokes All The Time Because The God Of Rain Has Rained On Her Lava." And in ''Wintersmith'', Anoia says "I used to be a volcano goddess [...] and the god of storms was always raining on my lava."
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[[WMG: Moist and Adora Belle's first child will be a daughter]]
Named either 'Hope' or 'Angel(a)'
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Maurice from ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedrodents'' recalls having known a blind cat who walked into doors a lot. Tiddles ''acts'' blind and walks into doors if they're not opened for him, and there can't be many places in Ankh-Morpork where a cat that oblivious can survive. If Maurice met Tiddles before the former became Amazing, he could easily have concluded Tiddles really was blind, simply by how he behaves.

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Maurice from ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedrodents'' ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedRodents'' recalls having known a blind cat who walked into doors a lot. Tiddles ''acts'' blind and walks into doors if they're not opened for him, and there can't be many places in Ankh-Morpork where a cat that oblivious can survive. If Maurice met Tiddles before the former became Amazing, he could easily have concluded Tiddles really was blind, simply by how he behaves.
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[[WMG: Tiddles has met the Amazing Maurice.]]
Maurice from ''Discworld/TheAmazingMauriceAndHisEducatedrodents'' recalls having known a blind cat who walked into doors a lot. Tiddles ''acts'' blind and walks into doors if they're not opened for him, and there can't be many places in Ankh-Morpork where a cat that oblivious can survive. If Maurice met Tiddles before the former became Amazing, he could easily have concluded Tiddles really was blind, simply by how he behaves.
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* Moist is frequently compared to a corkscrew (all twisty but he gets the corks out), which Anoia is said to eat. Make of that what you will.
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Refuge in Audacity

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** Wouldn't that rather be "Refugium ab audacia petendum." or "In audacia, refugium"?
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* Or possibly [[RefugeInAudacity ''Perfugium in audacitate'']].

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* Or possibly [[RefugeInAudacity ''Perfugium ''[[RefugeInAudacity Perfugium in audacitate'']].audacitate]]''.
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* Or possibly [[RefugeInAudacity ''Perfugium in audacitate'']].
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* He's pretty much a textbook of someone with significant Asperger's.
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* It would be out-of-character for Leonard to have actually committed a crime worthy of hanging, however. The worst harm he's ever done was to build the gonne, and he honestly never imagined anyone would try to use it on another person.

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* It would be out-of-character for Leonard to have actually committed a crime worthy of hanging, however. The worst harm he's ever done was to build the gonne, and he honestly never imagined anyone would try to use it on another person.
person.
* Leonard was never tried for a crime. The folks at Alchemists' Guild mention that he simply disappeared, so Vetinari just had him kidnapped and gave him everything he could want in a workshop to keep him happy.
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[[WMG: Moist's family motto]]
If he gets to pick one, it will be ''Tarn deliram ad operamini''. Or "Crazy Enough to Work"
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* It would be out-of-character for Leonard to have actually committed a crime worthy of hanging, however. The worst harm he's ever done was to build the gonne, and he honestly never imagined anyone would try to use it on another person.
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[[WMG: Stanley is mildly autistic.]]
That's why he's obsessively devoted to one narrow topic, and he takes instructions literally.
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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As they don't accept jobs that would breach a previously-accepted contract, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.

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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As they don't accept jobs that would breach a previously-accepted contract, any such contract arrangement would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.
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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As they don't accept jobs that conflict with one another, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.

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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As they don't accept jobs that conflict with one another, would breach a previously-accepted contract, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.
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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As Vetinari is implied to have adopted Mr. Fusspot, and is therefore unlikely to harm the little dog merely to put pressure on von Lipwig, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.

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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As Vetinari is implied to have adopted Mr. Fusspot, and is therefore unlikely to harm the little dog merely to put pressure on von Lipwig, they don't accept jobs that conflict with one another, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.
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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As Vetinari is implied to have adopted Mr. Fusspot, and is therefore unlikely to kill the little dog merely to put pressure on von Lipwig, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.

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* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As Vetinari is implied to have adopted Mr. Fusspot, and is therefore unlikely to kill harm the little dog merely to put pressure on von Lipwig, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.
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to:

* The Assassins' Guild already ''has'' a conditional contract out on Moist, however: as of ''Making Money'', they're to kill him if Mr. Fusspot dies of anything other than natural causes. As Vetinari is implied to have adopted Mr. Fusspot, and is therefore unlikely to kill the little dog merely to put pressure on von Lipwig, any such contract would have to wait until the Chairman has died of old age.
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[[WMG: Leonard da Quirm was an early beneficiary of Vetinari's 'rehabilitation' system.]]
It wasn't quite so sophisticated in those days- perhaps for want of a suitable hangman- but his life in the palace sounds very much like the one [[spoiler: eventually believed to be the fate of Owlswick Jenkins]]. In fact he was probably quite elderly and he hasn't been mentioned for a while, so his... apartment might have come vacant, as it were, by natural causes (or the natural effects of using a lot of dangerous chemicals all the time)

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