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If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Much is made of Formless Oedon's strength, to transcend being and exist purely as blood and voice, or Kos's (some say Kosm's) ability to grant eyes to the lesser as indicative of similar strength. In response, the Moon Presence [[IKnowYourTrueName doesn't have a name]]. Think about it; for all Oedon's might he can still have part of his essence encapsulated by a rune and appropriated by Hunters. Further, leveling in the game requires blood echoes that the '''Moon''' rune enhances the collection of, establishing a relationship between the power in blood ''you shed from others'' and the Moon Presence. You can't capture its strength in a rune without empowering the dream it has trapped you in! The Moon Presence's whole schtick is taking the power of others and using it against them. The grand plot of the game divorced from any human concern is the Moon Presence giving Hunters the power to steal the strength of their foes and slaughter them with it.

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If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Much is made of Formless Oedon's strength, to transcend being and exist purely as blood and voice, or Kos's (some say Kosm's) ability to grant eyes to the lesser as indicative of similar strength. In response, the Moon Presence [[IKnowYourTrueName doesn't have a name]]. Think about it; for all Oedon's might he can still have part of his essence encapsulated by a rune and appropriated by Hunters. Further, leveling in the game requires blood echoes that the '''Moon''' rune enhances the collection of, establishing a relationship between the power in blood ''you shed from others'' and the Moon Presence. (Another instance: the sigil next to Level in the menu is a crescent moon.) You can't capture its strength in a rune without empowering the dream it has trapped you in! The Moon Presence's whole schtick is taking the power of others and using it against them. The grand plot of the game divorced from any human concern is the Moon Presence giving Hunters the power to steal the strength of their foes and slaughter them with it.
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*Consider also literally the credo of the Choir: "the sky and the cosmos are one." The largest object in the sky is the moon! Especially when the line between man and beast is blurred and it becomes giant red! What does that imply about the Great Ones who are hunted by the Moon Presence's hunters?
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* Jossed, it was only referenced in the alpha and that was it.

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* Jossed, it was only referenced in the alpha and that was it.
obviously.
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** Confirmed, in a sense. The miracle blood the Yharnamites have been using actually slowly turned them into beasts. The same can be said with [[spoiler: the chalice dungeons]].




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* Jossed, it was only referenced in the alpha and that was it.
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So why is it such an easy boss fight comparatively? Simple: you're a SpannerInTheWorks. Look at all the graves throughout the Hunters' Dream. There are graves underneath the shrubbery everywhere; hell, even in the final boss arena it's possible the tree is growing out of a gigantic mound of graves (some parts of the ground are just more tombstones). It didn't plan for a Hunter to actually ascend; all who had tried before in some fashion were either rendered mindless (Vacuous Rom) or raving beasts (Laurence as the Blood-letting Beast deep in the chalice dungeons).

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So why is it such an easy boss fight comparatively? Simple: you're a SpannerInTheWorks. Look at all the graves throughout the Hunters' Dream. There are graves underneath the shrubbery everywhere; hell, even in the final boss arena it's possible the tree is growing out of a gigantic mound of graves (some parts of the ground are just more tombstones). It didn't plan for a Hunter to actually ascend; all who had tried before in some fashion were either rendered mindless (Vacuous Rom) or raving beasts (Laurence as the Blood-letting Beast deep in the chalice dungeons).dungeons).

[[WMG: On the nature of blood ministration and the healing properties of blood.]]

Building on some of the above WMGs concerning Queen Yharnam, this troper proposes that the effects of her blood permanently alters recipients of blood ministration whether it turns them to beasts or not. In the description of blood vials, it's revealed that after the ''first'' in fusion, i.e. an infusion performed by a Healing Church blood minister, all successive blood infusions "recall the first, and are all the more invigorating for it".

I submit first ministration is ''always'' done with Queen Yharnam's blood. The church has a monopoly on that; it must, since poor Gilbert for example couldn't just finagle a vial from someone. So why does common blood-- Arianna's, Adella's, and the blood fond in vials which is presumably harvested from enemies-- heal the hunter?

Because it's not the blood that's special, it's the ''recipient''. Yharnam's blood transforms humans into someone else, even if they aren't sprouting fur and fangs. After you take Yharnam's blood, any blood can heal you but some "vintages" are better than others.

I also submit that it is entirely probable that some Yharnamites fled the city and have not outwardly mutated. They're still out there, and they still know how good it feels to have new blood in their veins. All they need are a few things from an apothecary and an unsuspecting populace...

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Why? Because unlike the rest of its brethren, it is not merely sympathetic to humanity but ''understands us''. It's the Great Ones' answer to Provost Willem. In much the same way humans can, with some magical help, partially summon Great Ones and their servants to their aid, the Moon Presence through the Hunters' Dream summons Hunters to do its bidding. The Healing Church might have been an attempt by Great Ones to share knowledge of the cosmos, but those Great Ones thought they could bend humanity's fear and awe of them into being gods and control that information. The Moon Presence taps at something deeper -- revulsion -- and uses it to compel the service of Hunters, giving them only the information they need via proxy (old Gerhman) and setting them loose [[OmniscientMoralityLicense fully knowing]] what they're likely to achieve. The Moon Presence understands us to a better degree than any of the others, and for that reason doesn't underestimate us.

If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Much is made of Formless Oedon's strength, to transcend being and exist purely as blood and voice, or Kos's (some say Kosm's) ability to grant eyes to the lesser as indicative of similar strength. In response, the Moon Presence [[IKnowYourTrueName doesn't have a name]]. Think about it; for all Oedon's might he can still have part of his essence encapsulated by a rune and appropriated by Hunters. Further, leveling in the game requires blood echoes that the '''Moon''' rune enhances the collection of, establishing a relationship between the power in blood ''you shed from others'' and the Moon Presence. The Moon Presence's whole schtick is taking the power of others and using it against them! The grand plot of the game divorced from any human concern is the Moon Presence giving Hunters the power to steal the strength of their foes and slaughter them with it.

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Why? Because unlike the rest of its brethren, it is not merely sympathetic to humanity but ''understands us''. It's the Great Ones' answer to Provost Willem. In much the same way humans can, with some magical help, partially summon Great Ones and their servants to their aid, the Moon Presence through the Hunters' Dream summons Hunters to do its bidding. The Healing Church might have been an attempt by Great Ones to share knowledge of the cosmos, but those Great Ones thought they could bend humanity's fear and awe of them into being gods and control that information. The Moon Presence taps at something deeper -- revulsion -- and uses it to compel the service of Hunters, giving them only the information they need via proxy (old Gerhman) and setting them loose [[OmniscientMoralityLicense fully knowing]] [[BatmanGambit knowing what they're likely to achieve. The Moon Presence understands us to a better degree than any of the others, and for that reason doesn't underestimate us.

achieve]].

If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Much is made of Formless Oedon's strength, to transcend being and exist purely as blood and voice, or Kos's (some say Kosm's) ability to grant eyes to the lesser as indicative of similar strength. In response, the Moon Presence [[IKnowYourTrueName doesn't have a name]]. Think about it; for all Oedon's might he can still have part of his essence encapsulated by a rune and appropriated by Hunters. Further, leveling in the game requires blood echoes that the '''Moon''' rune enhances the collection of, establishing a relationship between the power in blood ''you shed from others'' and the Moon Presence. You can't capture its strength in a rune without empowering the dream it has trapped you in! The Moon Presence's whole schtick is taking the power of others and using it against them! them. The grand plot of the game divorced from any human concern is the Moon Presence giving Hunters the power to steal the strength of their foes and slaughter them with it.it.

So why is it such an easy boss fight comparatively? Simple: you're a SpannerInTheWorks. Look at all the graves throughout the Hunters' Dream. There are graves underneath the shrubbery everywhere; hell, even in the final boss arena it's possible the tree is growing out of a gigantic mound of graves (some parts of the ground are just more tombstones). It didn't plan for a Hunter to actually ascend; all who had tried before in some fashion were either rendered mindless (Vacuous Rom) or raving beasts (Laurence as the Blood-letting Beast deep in the chalice dungeons).
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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo is a baby and tried to help the School of Mensis ascend, Mergo's Wetnurse protects Mergo, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Kos, some say Kosm, helpd Rom ascend, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even though it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to kill you before the transformation is complete.]]

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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo is a baby and tried to help the School of Mensis ascend, Mergo's Wetnurse protects Mergo, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Kos, some say Kosm, helpd Rom ascend, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even though it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to kill you before the transformation is complete.]]]]

[[WMG: The Moon Presence is the most powerful of the Great Ones, or barring that the only really smart one.]]
Why? Because unlike the rest of its brethren, it is not merely sympathetic to humanity but ''understands us''. It's the Great Ones' answer to Provost Willem. In much the same way humans can, with some magical help, partially summon Great Ones and their servants to their aid, the Moon Presence through the Hunters' Dream summons Hunters to do its bidding. The Healing Church might have been an attempt by Great Ones to share knowledge of the cosmos, but those Great Ones thought they could bend humanity's fear and awe of them into being gods and control that information. The Moon Presence taps at something deeper -- revulsion -- and uses it to compel the service of Hunters, giving them only the information they need via proxy (old Gerhman) and setting them loose [[OmniscientMoralityLicense fully knowing]] what they're likely to achieve. The Moon Presence understands us to a better degree than any of the others, and for that reason doesn't underestimate us.

If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Much is made of Formless Oedon's strength, to transcend being and exist purely as blood and voice, or Kos's (some say Kosm's) ability to grant eyes to the lesser as indicative of similar strength. In response, the Moon Presence [[IKnowYourTrueName doesn't have a name]]. Think about it; for all Oedon's might he can still have part of his essence encapsulated by a rune and appropriated by Hunters. Further, leveling in the game requires blood echoes that the '''Moon''' rune enhances the collection of, establishing a relationship between the power in blood ''you shed from others'' and the Moon Presence. The Moon Presence's whole schtick is taking the power of others and using it against them! The grand plot of the game divorced from any human concern is the Moon Presence giving Hunters the power to steal the strength of their foes and slaughter them with it.

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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo is a baby and tried to help the School of Mensis ascend, Mergo's Wetnurse protects Mergo, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even though it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to kill you before the transformation is complete.]]

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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo is a baby and tried to help the School of Mensis ascend, Mergo's Wetnurse protects Mergo, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Kos, some say Kosm, helpd Rom ascend, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even though it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to kill you before the transformation is complete.]]

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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo's a baby, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even if it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to stop you before the transformation is complete.]]

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[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo is a baby and tried to help the School of Mensis ascend, Mergo's a baby, Wetnurse protects Mergo, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even if though it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to stop kill you before the transformation is complete.]]

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Why are the Great Ones doing this? Which ones are doing what and for what purpose? Well the obvious candidates are [[spoiler The Moon Presence]] for turning people into Hunters and tying them to the Hunter's Dream, and Formless Oedon, especially in the case of the Beast Plague as his medium is blood, so of course Oedon would want blood shed. Ebrietas would probably being the one turning people into Kin.

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Why are the Great Ones doing this? Which ones are doing what and for what purpose? Well the obvious candidates are [[spoiler [[spoiler: The Moon Presence]] for turning people into Hunters and tying them to the Hunter's Dream, and Formless Oedon, especially in the case of the Beast Plague as his medium is blood, so of course Oedon would want blood shed. Ebrietas would probably being the one turning people into Kin.



I'm less sure about this part, but if the above is true, it could also explain why defeating Mergo (who is pretty heavily implied to be Yharnam's child) presumably ends or at least halts the spread of the curse (allows you to transcend the hunt and wake up, after all); its conception is the whole reason the curse exists in the first place. Luckily, the School of Mensis got in contact with the unborn creature's mind, allowing you a way to stop its influence in the city. But considering that the source of the curse itself is not dead (for even if you kill Yharnam, her conscience lives on, as described in the Yharnam Stone), it's likely that, eventually, someone else will find their way into the Labyrinth, find the cursed blood, and bring the scourge of beasts to another land.

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I'm less sure about this part, but if the above is true, it could also explain why defeating Mergo (who is pretty heavily implied to be Yharnam's child) presumably ends or at least halts the spread of the curse (allows you to transcend the hunt and wake up, after all); its conception is the whole reason the curse exists in the first place. Luckily, the School of Mensis got in contact with the unborn creature's mind, allowing you a way to stop its influence in the city. But considering that the source of the curse itself is not dead (for even if you kill Yharnam, her conscience lives on, as described in the Yharnam Stone), it's likely that, eventually, someone else will find their way into the Labyrinth, find the cursed blood, and bring the scourge of beasts to another land.land.

[[WMG: The true villain is...]]
[[spoiler: The Moon Presence.]] Most of the Great Ones and their Kin seem to non-hostile to humans or even helpful. [[spoiler: Oedon and several other Great Ones offered their children to humans, Mergo's a baby, the Brain sits there and gives you a rune if you Make Contact, Rom doesn't attack directly until she's nearly dead and Ebrietas allows humans to summon her via her Augur.]] It's said they're sympathetic and will answer if called upon, even if it doesn't work out. But [[spoiler: the Moon Presence created the dream]] specifically to kill an infant Great One, and on that path you end up killing most of the other Great Ones and their Kin. They also trapped Gehrman and possibly all of Yharnam in [[spoiler: the dream]] and does the same to [[spoiler: you in the Honoring Wishes ending.]] Apparently they don't want humanity to ascend, and are willing to kill the Great Ones to stop it. That also explains why they attack you [[spoiler: if you've used three Umbilical Cords; you're ascending and turning into a Great One, so it tries to stop you before the transformation is complete.]]
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[[Pantheon/CombatOther Yes]].
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She bleeds Pale (white) blood if you attack her. Also note that she cannot ever be truly killed. She may, in fact, be a Great One who is looking for a surrogate child herself (YOU) and the Childhood's Beginning ending is her wish finally fulfilled. Congratulations, Plain Doll, you now have kin.

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She bleeds Pale (white) blood if you attack her. Also note that she cannot ever be truly killed. She may, in fact, be a Great One who is looking for a surrogate child herself (YOU) and the Childhood's Beginning ending is her wish finally fulfilled. Congratulations, Plain Doll, you now have kin.kin.

[[WMG: The Pthumerian Queen Yharnam is the source of the cursed blood]]
The pthumerians used blood, presumably granted to them by the Great Ones, to become super-human beings. However, by the time Byrgenwerth found the Old Labyrinth, it was a dilapidated mess, and the remaining pthumerians were either beasts or desiccated things that attack you on sight... except for Yharnam herself, who is locked and shackled in the deepest reaches of the Labyrinth.

What if, then, the source of the corruption is Yharnam's blood itself? Presumably, the leader of the pthumerians would be the one in contact with the Great Ones, and the one that passed the blood that turned them super-human. What if, then, in perhaps an extra bid for power, Yharnam sought to and succeded in becoming pregnant with the child of a Great One? And with it, brought corruption to her blood? Perhaps the mix between Great One and pthumerian made her blood cursed, slowly turning any that drank it into mindless beasts. The pthumerians realized this too late, and tried to lock her away (which is why she is shackled and sealed), but by then the damage had been done, and the blood that once made them super-human brought their own end as they all turned into monsters. Since by then the blood was probably sent everywhere, this is also why the blood that the scholars of Byrgenwerth found turns people into beasts, as it is likely Yharnam's own cursed blood itself (or at very least the blood of pthumerians that turned cursed after they drunk Yharnam's).

I'm less sure about this part, but if the above is true, it could also explain why defeating Mergo (who is pretty heavily implied to be Yharnam's child) presumably ends or at least halts the spread of the curse (allows you to transcend the hunt and wake up, after all); its conception is the whole reason the curse exists in the first place. Luckily, the School of Mensis got in contact with the unborn creature's mind, allowing you a way to stop its influence in the city. But considering that the source of the curse itself is not dead (for even if you kill Yharnam, her conscience lives on, as described in the Yharnam Stone), it's likely that, eventually, someone else will find their way into the Labyrinth, find the cursed blood, and bring the scourge of beasts to another land.
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Added a theory from Epic Name Bro about the Plain Doll\'s true nature

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[[WMG: The Plain Doll is actually a Great One]]
EpicNameBro theorized that the Plain Doll is actually the one who sustains the Hunter's Dream, and may in fact BE a Great One who has power over Blood Echoes. She seemed surprised that you were able to talk with Gehrman, as she mentions that 'Gehrman is unseen in dreams'. It may be a hint that Gehrman is actively hiding from her.

She bleeds Pale (white) blood if you attack her. Also note that she cannot ever be truly killed. She may, in fact, be a Great One who is looking for a surrogate child herself (YOU) and the Childhood's Beginning ending is her wish finally fulfilled. Congratulations, Plain Doll, you now have kin.
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Added a WMG about Darkbeasts and why Bolt harms the Kin

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[[WMG: Darkbeasts create electricity as a specific defense mechanism against the Kin]]
All of the Kin have a weakness to Bolt damage, even the Great Ones like Ebrietas. Darkbeasts can emit lightning. Maybe the reason why they do this is that those afflicted with the Beast Plague but still hostile to the Kin can actually 'evolve' to help themselves survive fights against them. Maybe they were enemies of the various factions trying to contact the Great Ones, and though they are no longer human still have hatred against their sworn enemies. What if Darkbeast Paarl was a prisoner of Yahar'Gul, and became the lightning monster that it is because the prisoner absolutely HATED the Kin?
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[[WMG: Yharnam was destroyed by rumors of the Panacea]]
Stories about a "panacea" in Yharnem that could cure all ills led to every crippled, sick, and otherwise desperate person in the world descending on the city, including the protagonist. Of course, the sick brought their diseases with them. Soon, the entire city, with its population swelled by refugees until its infrastructure was already buckling, began drowning in plague(s). [[spoiler:Which is why the real-life city is empty when the protagonist wakes from their dream.]]

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[[WMG: Yharnam was destroyed by rumors of the Panacea]]
Paleblood]]
Stories about a "panacea" in Yharnem Yharnam that could cure all ills led to every crippled, sick, and otherwise desperate person in the world descending on the city, including the protagonist. Of course, the sick brought their diseases with them. Soon, the entire city, with its population swelled by refugees until its infrastructure was already buckling, began drowning in plague(s). [[spoiler:Which is why the real-life city is empty when the protagonist wakes from their dream.]]
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[[WMG: Yharnem was destroyed by rumors of the Panacea]]

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[[WMG: Yharnem Yharnam was destroyed by rumors of the Panacea]]

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Indeed, you don’t even need to go to Old Yharnam to complete the Hunt and end the Nightmare; Gehrman just points you in that direction so that you can steal the Holy Chalice from them. The Old Yharnamites really are no threat to anyone. [[YouBastard YOU’RE the one trespassing on their domain, murdering them as you see fit, and taking whatever belongings you like.]]

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Indeed, you don’t even need to go to Old Yharnam to complete the Hunt and end the Nightmare; Gehrman just points you in that direction so that you can steal the Holy Chalice from them. The Old Yharnamites really are no threat to anyone. [[YouBastard YOU’RE the one trespassing on their domain, murdering them as you see fit, and taking whatever belongings you like.]]]]

[[WMG: "Yharnam Blood" is far more literal than any first time player realizes.]]
Getting through the chalice dungeons reveals that the queen of the ancient Phtumerian Super Beings, who had uncovered the Eldritch Truth, was a woman named Yharnam. During the Boss Fight with Yharnam, she uses blood in a variety of ways that no other entity does in the rest of the game. Reading the Formless Oedon Formless Oedon Rune gives the detail that Oedon uses blood as a medium and his "inadvertant worshippers" seek blood. Nothing is really known about Blood ministration, only that Lawerence, against Provost Willem, used "old blood" as the foundation of his Healing Church. Yharnam the Queen is extremely old, and shown to still be around somewhat in the time period the game takes place in.

I submit to this humble WMG that when the old man who gives you the blood ministration at the opening says "Easy! With a little Yharnam Blood of your own!" he is literally giving you a dose of the Queen's Blood.
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Another point I thought of, the first few moments after your character gets his blood ministration, a bloody beast comes up and reaches out to touch your character, only for a molotov to drive it off. This may have been symbolic of the Hunter and Beast Runes fighting for dominance in your mind.

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Another point I thought of, the first few moments after your character gets his blood ministration, a bloody beast comes up and reaches out to touch your character, only for a molotov to drive it off. This may have been symbolic of the Hunter and Beast Runes fighting for dominance in your mind.mind.

[[WMG: Djura has a point.]]
Djura explains that “the things you hunt are not beasts, they’re people.” While the beasts you encounter in Old Yharnam are hostile to you, there are signs that they’re not really mindless monsters. They appear to have built up a society of sorts, many of them wear robes, indicating that they are willing to make clothes to fit their new bodies, and they even appear to have unique religious beliefs. If anything, they seem to be the opposite of the huntsman mobs you encounter everywhere else. While the Yharnamites are humans who are figuratively and literally devolving into beasts in their endless WitchHunt, the beastmen of Old Yharnam are becoming a bit more human. They’re not a TorchesAndPitchforks mob looking for someone to blame for their problems, they just want to be left alone.

The only sign of maliciousness we see is that they appear to conduct some sort of ritualistic sacrifice on Blood-Starved Beasts, which frankly nothing compared to what the Healing Church has been doing (and you’re unlikely to feel much sympathy after going through [[ThatOneBoss the pure hell]] of killing a Blood-Starved Beast yourself). Considering that the Healing Church conducted a passive purge on Old Yharnam, it’s understandable why the inhabitants there would be hostile to outsiders as well.

Indeed, you don’t even need to go to Old Yharnam to complete the Hunt and end the Nightmare; Gehrman just points you in that direction so that you can steal the Holy Chalice from them. The Old Yharnamites really are no threat to anyone. [[YouBastard YOU’RE the one trespassing on their domain, murdering them as you see fit, and taking whatever belongings you like.]]
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EpicNameBro pointed out that Caryll the Runesmith made the rune workshop tool after Master Willem was lost to the Church and yet killing him nets you an "Eye" Caryll Rune. He then goes on to hypothesize that a Great One may have "spoke" the rune into Master Willem. He further posits that the Hunter's Mark item uses the same rune as the Hunter Oath Rune but was different in nature, leading him to speculate that a Great One "spoke" it into your character at the beginning of the game.

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EpicNameBro pointed out that Caryll the Runesmith made the rune workshop tool after Master Willem was lost to the Church and yet killing him Willem nets you an "Eye" Caryll Rune. He then goes on to hypothesize that a Great One may have "spoke" the rune into Master Willem. He further posits that the Hunter's Mark item uses the same rune as the Hunter Oath Rune but was different in nature, leading him to speculate that a Great One "spoke" it into your character at the beginning of the game.
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* maybe its because of how "Insight"ful the Good Hunter is... regardless of actual Insight counter... Though this theory is rather awesome, in fact maybe its not just the arrangement of the Limbs but the time delay and motion that is the full polite greeting.

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* maybe its because of how "Insight"ful the Good Hunter is... regardless of actual Insight counter... Though this theory is rather awesome, in fact maybe its not just the arrangement of the Limbs but the time delay and motion that is the full polite greeting.greeting.

[[WMG: The Words of the Great Ones can change people's nature.]]
EpicNameBro pointed out that Caryll the Runesmith made the rune workshop tool after Master Willem was lost to the Church and yet killing him nets you an "Eye" Caryll Rune. He then goes on to hypothesize that a Great One may have "spoke" the rune into Master Willem. He further posits that the Hunter's Mark item uses the same rune as the Hunter Oath Rune but was different in nature, leading him to speculate that a Great One "spoke" it into your character at the beginning of the game.

This seems like a great theory, but let's take it further. Anyone who is a beast, like the Suspicious Beggar, would have a Beast Rune dangling in their mind. I would further suspect that creature that is a human turned Kin of the Cosmos would bear the symbol for Kin inside them in a similar fashion, even though currently there are no Kin runes the player can equip. [[Maybe Fake Iosefka had a process to implant Kin into humans to turn them into Celestial Mobs.]] Even further, perhaps Patches and the rest of the Human-Headed Spiders had the symbol for Spider "spoken" into their minds.

Why are the Great Ones doing this? Which ones are doing what and for what purpose? Well the obvious candidates are [[spoiler The Moon Presence]] for turning people into Hunters and tying them to the Hunter's Dream, and Formless Oedon, especially in the case of the Beast Plague as his medium is blood, so of course Oedon would want blood shed. Ebrietas would probably being the one turning people into Kin.

Another point I thought of, the first few moments after your character gets his blood ministration, a bloody beast comes up and reaches out to touch your character, only for a molotov to drive it off. This may have been symbolic of the Hunter and Beast Runes fighting for dominance in your mind.
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[[WMG: Someday, one of them will enter the Pantheon/TropePantheons]]
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* [[spoiler: Seemingly unlikely considering how it isn't a literal dream, it's like the Dream Cycles from the Cthulhu Mythos, where people are brought into a dream by evil entities. Writing the game off as ONLY a dream is honestly both stupid and generic.]]

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* [[spoiler: Seemingly unlikely considering how it isn't a literal dream, it's like the Dream Cycles from the Cthulhu Mythos, where people are brought into a dream by evil entities. Writing the game off as ONLY a dream is honestly both stupid and generic.]]

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* if Kosm/Kos is not just a tasty bit of foreshadowing at a future DLC boss, and is as the above poster suggests The Cosmos Itself, then that would make it more along the lines of Asathoth. Formless Oedon seems much more Yog-Sothoth than the Great mysterious Kosm/Kos



Considering how you get the best Moon rune by performing the gesture in front of a Great One that's not actively attacking you, this is probably the best way you can start a conversation with a Great One, and to keep talking you have to perform all sorts of other gestures. There seems to be a really precise requirement to it, as when you perform Make Contact you shift your arms to the opposite direction after exactly 35 seconds. How your character figured this out from a corpse stuck in one position is anyone's guess.

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Considering how you get the best Moon rune by performing the gesture in front of a Great One that's not actively attacking you, this is probably the best way you can start a conversation with a Great One, and to keep talking you have to perform all sorts of other gestures. There seems to be a really precise requirement to it, as when you perform Make Contact you shift your arms to the opposite direction after exactly 35 seconds. How your character figured this out from a corpse stuck in one position is anyone's guess.guess.
* maybe its because of how "Insight"ful the Good Hunter is... regardless of actual Insight counter... Though this theory is rather awesome, in fact maybe its not just the arrangement of the Limbs but the time delay and motion that is the full polite greeting.
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Added WMG about the Make Contact gesture


It's doubtful a Great One powerful enough to transform Rom is just some brain monster. Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as Micolash says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?

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It's doubtful a Great One powerful enough to transform Rom is just some brain monster. Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as Micolash says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?itself?

[[WMG: The 'Make Contact' gesture is how to politely say hello to a Great One, and humans communicate with them primarily by body language.]]
Considering how you get the best Moon rune by performing the gesture in front of a Great One that's not actively attacking you, this is probably the best way you can start a conversation with a Great One, and to keep talking you have to perform all sorts of other gestures. There seems to be a really precise requirement to it, as when you perform Make Contact you shift your arms to the opposite direction after exactly 35 seconds. How your character figured this out from a corpse stuck in one position is anyone's guess.
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[[WMG: The game takes place in the same universe as ''DarkSouls'']]

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[[WMG: The game takes place in the same universe as ''DarkSouls'']]''VideoGame/DarkSouls'']]
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Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as Micolash says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?

to:

It's doubtful a Great One powerful enough to transform Rom is just some brain monster. Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as Micolash says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?
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Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as when Micolash dies he says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?

to:

Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as when Micolash dies he says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?
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[[WMG: The reason you never fight or even meet Kosm/Kos is because they are not only far beyond your level, but the level of all the other Great Ones.]]
Kos/Kosm was apparently powerful enough to transform Rom into a Great One without going to the [[FaceFullofAlienWingWong absurd lengths]] of Oedon, and Micolash, an insanely powerful arcanist, implies what Kosm/Kos has given him is only a SLIVER of his power. In short, Kos/Kosm is the [[CthulhuMythos Yog-Sothoth]] of Bloodborne, and Ebrietas might even be his daughter, considering his name is implied to mean "Cosmos," as when Micolash dies he says something along the lines of "Oh, it was Cosmos." Perhaps Kosm/Kos [[GeniusLoci IS]] the Cosmos itself?
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* Alternatively, you could end up as the next Rom, desperately trying to prevent HUmanity from realizing the Nightmare all around them. Because, given From's track record, and considering the [[CthulhuMythos inspiration]], this is the most likely "Good Eldritch Abomination" ending.

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* Alternatively, you could end up as the next Rom, desperately trying to prevent HUmanity humanity from realizing the Nightmare all around them. Because, given From's track record, and considering the [[CthulhuMythos inspiration]], this is the most likely "Good Eldritch Abomination" ending.
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* Alternatively, you could end up as the next Rom, desperately trying to prevent HUmanity from realizing the Nightmare all around them. Because, given From's track record, and considering the [[CthulhuMythos inspiration]], this is the most likely "Good Eldritch Abomination" ending.

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