History VideoGame / TacticsOgre

** Once you finish the game, Chaos Frame menu in the Warren Report is displayed. Even if they still won't tell you how to actually raise it, it still gives a hint on two things: when you can do the Cressida recruitment quest in the Chaos route without having her leave in the end and forcing you to redo it all over again, or your progress in trying to avoid the ultimate DownerEnding by having high Chaos Frame on Walister, Galgastani and Bakram.

* ArtificialStupidity: While the AI has its shades of brilliance, it can also be amazingly thick. To wit:

*** ''Reborn'' fixed this to a degree by making spellcasters only able to equip up to 4 spells at a time. However, the AI now ''never'' uses debuff spells or debuffing items, despite sometimes having them equipped. The "why" is unknown, but it's speculated that it was a "happy accident" due to how the inventory system was changed between the PSP version and ''Reborn'', plus a number of buffs and debuffs added in the PSP version were made into automatic class skills.

* AntiFrustrationFeatures:
** A fair number courtesy of ''Reborn'':
*** Crafting has been completely overhauled, removing the crafting animation, failure chance, and even letting you upgrade items already equipped by your party.
*** Random drops from the Pharompa Wildwood no longer include crafting recipes that drop from hyper specific enemies - these are instead spread across a much wider variety of enemies throughout the palace of the dead.
*** [[spoiler:Deneb's recruitment process has been dramatically simplified and only requires you unlock one of each orb type and upgrade relics thrice in her secret shop if you'd also like to get her special Wicce Job.]]
*** While still something of a grind at higher levels, weapon skills are the only ones that need to be manually improved by using them, and now improve dramatically faster than they did in the PSP version. Offensive magic also improves all equipped weapon skills simultaneously.
*** It completely revamps and streamlines class levels by making character levels class levels. A character can switch from a Fighter to a Terror Knight at level twenty and have the same skills as someone who had it since level one, the only difference being their weapon level. The whole revamp avoids gobs of grinding to get a character up to speed.
*** Once you finish the game, Chaos Frame menu in the Warren Report is displayed. Even if they still won't tell you how to actually raise it, it still gives a hint on two things: When you can do the Cressida recruitment quest in the Chaos route without having her leave in the end and forcing you to redo it all over again, or your progress in trying to avoid the ultimate DownerEnding by having high Chaos Frame on Walister, Galgastani and Bakram.

** Using finishers at the ''worst'' possible moment

** When it has a unit with rampart aura (Which prevents you from getting past them on foot), you will ''hate'' them. The AI will often place them at a bottleneck. Even if it can only occupy one tile and in theory, you can just slink past them, their rampart aura will keep you from getting too far. To make matters worse, they'll often put Phalanx on, which reduces damage taken by 90%, so you can't just beat them down so you can get past them.

*** ''Reborn'' fixed this to a degree by making spellcasters only able to equip up to 4 spells at a time. However, the AI now ''never'' uses debuff spells or debuffing items, despite sometimes having these; this suggests that they were deemed too annoying by play-testers and hastily disabled.

** Averted in the PSP remake; the translation has been completely redone with all the name-changes that come with it.

* DownloadableContent: Fortunately, the DLC in the PSP version of ''Tactics Ogre'' (called the Coda) that had to be downloaded in the Japanese version is naturally written into the English version; no download necessary.

** There's also recruiting Deneb AND unlocking her special class (via collecting Glass Pumpkins, selling them to her, and in the original, creating Pumpkin Sorcerers), which can also be tedious.

*** To get it, you have to find the 4 Wind God Weapons. ...which was also the requirement in the original and ''Videogame/OgreBattle'', but see the above about how hard it is to get specific drops. 3 of those drops are in the Palace of the Dead. The 4th was in the Ruins of San Brosa ''in the DLC Coda.'' Then you had to go to the bottom of the [=PotD=] a second time.
* GunsAreWorthless: Averted in the original version - gunners can shoot from ''anywhere'' on the map, but they realistically cannot fire over obstacles (like arrows). In the remake, however, guns have been {{Nerf}}ed with range, but are still useful. If anything, they often wind up OvershadowedByAwesome since you can't get them before chapter four when your endgame team is almost ready.

* LeaningOnTheFourthWall: Played in the PSP remake and ''Reborn'', Presance attempted to use Exorcism on living Undead... only to fail because the new system requires that undead be knocked out first before being exorcised. He remarks that it's been 15 years since he fought an undead as an excuse, [[FridgeBrilliance which is the real time difference between the remake and the original's release]]. ''Reborn'' even changed it to "(a) quarter century". [[spoiler:However, in Orias' case in the Chaos route, this got her fatally wounded by the undead as she failed to exorcise, and it wounded her to the point she succumbed to the wounds and die.]]

* GenderRestrictedAbility: Less so in the PSP, which re-balanced some classes (Witches were turned into the female version of Wizards, both can now cast damage and support magic) and added opposite gender variants of the existing ones that did not have a close counterpart. There are, however, gender restricted pieces of equipment, such as [[PaperFanOfDoom fans]] and [[WhipItGood whips]].

** An inversion: Neutral route in the PSP and ''Reborn'' versions is the least desirable route because [[spoiler:Gildas dies]], barring you from doing the Coda scenarios at all since completing the first one (and starting the second) requires [[spoiler:Gildas]] in your party and alive in the Warren Report. Even more so in ''Reborn'' because said Coda also raises the maximum level cap to 50, which means Neutral players are stuck at Level 45 unless they use the time travel to try another route and [[spoiler:pick up Gildas]]. Players most likely take this route first out of pragmatism because Arycelle's drop in loyalty becomes harder to fix if another route is taken first.[[note]]The easiest way to raise loyalty is to raise skill/weapon levels, or in case of ''Reborn'', merely leveling up. If everything has been maximized before tackling the Neutral route, there are fewer ways to raise Arycelle's loyalty.[[/note]]

* AcceptableBreaksFromReality: If you recruit a character, but go to a route using the Chariot system where they are canonically dead or not recruited yet, you will still have them.

** The Chaos Route in the SNES/PSX/Saturn version, if only for being the only way to recruit and keep Arycelle, plus recruit all four of the Phoraena sisters, in the same playthrough. Furthermore, the Neutral and Chaos Routes are the only ones you could get access to the Shaman class, since the associated sidequest required all four sisters, one for each shrine. This meant that it was impossible to fully complete the quest on the Law route as [[spoiler:Cerya and Cistina are only recruitable on Chaos/Neutral. Also, Sherri is missable and a bit of GuideDangIt to recruit.]] With the PSP release, this was changed so as long as you have a single sister in your army, alive or dead in the Warren Report, you can open every single shrine.

them.
* {{Superboss}}: During a trek to the Palace of the Dead in ''Reborn'', if you enter a random battle where you deploy 12 characters, then there is a chance that you will encounter one of these two bosses as an EasterEgg: Allocer or Aym (Haborim in Japanese). Yes, they're basically the absurdly powerful incarnations of Arycelle and Hobyrim in the SFC/PSX versions... now as your enemy. Not only they are surrounded with Level 55 enemies while they're at Level 60 themselves, they have 1000+ points for their primary stats, which means they can easily one shot your squishy units to death. They also break the normal rules of a normal Archer and Swordmaster respectively. It's more advised to retreat from the battle if you're not specifically preparing to hunt them down.

* TarotMotifs: All of the major arcana are items that enemies sometimes drop. Ending someones turn on one nets you a status effect inflicting item and a tiny but permanent stat boost.

* WhiteMage: Clerics, Priests, and High Priests. Brantyn has a special class called Dark Bishop that focuses also on Divine Magic (since he is basically the head of the church), but sounds as if it would focus on ''dark'' magic like Catiua's Dark Priest class.
** Maybe since the spear was originally held by merfolk, only they know how to make it do this? You don't obtain it from merfolk this time around; it was stolen.

* ZombieApocalypse: The Neutral route.

* ClusterFBomb: You'll see the word 'shit' uttered a lot in Tactics Ogre, [[{{Bowdlerise}} Though not in the Switch version]].

*** ''Reborn'' fixed this to a degree by making spellcasters only able to equip up to 4 spells at a time. However, their AI usually prioritizes casting offensive or healing spells over debuffs and status effects.

* ElementalRockPaperScissors: An odd, limited version: Light and Dark are weak to each other, and strong against themselves. The other elements also resist themselves but are not particularly effective against one another.
* EmergencyWeapon: Soldiers without weapon type can either punch or throw a stone. The thrown stone only does ScratchDamage, which generally makes it less effective than waiting to gain a faster activation. The punch does slightly more damage equivalent to a double scratch but allows the opponent to counterattack.

** The Templars of the Black Knights can use every single weapon and skill, but most possessors of the class are built as other classes; Knights, Warriors, Archers, Terror Knights, Rune Fencers, Clerics, and Wizards, to be precise. The Templar job forces players to observe what foes have carefully, on top of allowing all Lodissian enemies to be [[ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption unrecruitable]] and have [[InvisibleWall Rampart Aura]].

* ClusterFBomb: You'll see the word 'shit' uttered a lot in Tactics Ogre.

** Generically, the amount of MutuallyExclusivePartyMember characters illustrates that you can't save everyone. While it may be undermined slightly by the fact the player ''can'' recruit everybody through the use of the Chariot system and the CODA, InUniverse, not everyone is alive, and is essentially a form of AcceptableBreaksFromReality.

** Chaotic: Having principles is a very nice thing. However, it sure as heck does ''not'' make life easier for you. Denam spends the entirety of the Chaos Route on the run. Additionally, enemies call Denam out to be a cowardly version of a PrinciplesZealot, someone who refuses to stain his hands to achieve a realistic goal and prefers to live in a heroic fantasy with clear cut morality like a child who never grow up.

** Chaotic: Having principles is a very nice thing. However, it sure as heck does ''not'' make life easier for you. Denam spends the entirety of the Chaos Route on the run,

* IHateYouVampireDad: Subverted. Nybeth the Necromancer tried to bring his son back to life using Forbidden Magic. However, his son comes back as an undead knight, with no memory or personality. It's for this reason his daughter Orias hates him.

* ShaggyDogStory: [[spoiler: If you pursue Lord route, you can get a divergence by gaining the support of the three clans through Chaos Frame. Denam gets assassinated if he doesn't and if he does win their support, Lodis will launch an invasion against Valeria, rendering his efforts pointless.]]

** Martym. ''LOOK'' at him.

* {{Superboss}}: During a trek to the Palace of the Dead in ''Reborn'', if you enter a random battle where you deploy 12 characters, then there is a chance that you will encounter one of these two bosses as an EasterEgg: Allocer or Aym (Haborim in Japanese). Yes, they're basically the absurdly powerful incarnations of Arycelle and Hobyrim in the SFC/PSX versions... now as your enemy. Not only they are surrounded with Level 55 enemies while they're at Level 60 themselves, they have 1000+ points for their primary stats, which means they can easily one shot your squishy units to death. They also break the normal rules of a normal Archer and Swordmaster respectively. It's more advised to retreat from the battle if you're not specifically preparing to hunt them down.
** Allocer has a tendency to locate herself on the higher ground and has Speedstar which procures everytime in the beginning, therefore she can act quick and fast, and despite using a mere Short Bow, she can shoot across the screen to easily reach your squad's initial position, meaning that she can immediately take out one member of your team or just take half of their HP.
** Emulating Haborym in the past, Aym has both Spellstrike and Petrifog, so he can petrify your whole team with ease. In addition, he dual-wields like the old version of the Swordmaster. While he wields dagger, his sheer physical attack stat is enough to make him kill you in one shot.
* SquishyWizard: Magic-focused units deal excessive amounts of damage but tend to die easily.

** The Chaos Route in the SNES/PSX/Saturn version, if only for being the only way to recruit and keep Arycelle, plus recruit all four of the Phoraena sisters, in the same playthrough. That said, the Neutral and Chaos Routes are the only ones you could get access to the Shaman class, since the associated sidequest can only be accessed if you've recruited the sisters.
** The Law Route has the most benefits for following than either of the other paths in the PSP and ''Reborn'' version. You get more route-exclusive unique characters than the other paths, three of whom (Vyce, Ravness, and [[spoiler:Ozma]]) are the only ones who get special additional scenes when doing any Coda scenarios. And it is the path with Denam at his most {{Antihero}}-ness (considering he [[spoiler:takes part in the massacre of his fellow countrymen who didn't want to fight in a false flag operation to goad others to war]]). The only downside is you don't get Cerya and Cistina who are available in both other paths and Cressida who is only available in Chaos. There are a some other semi-uniques (characters with unique portraits but otherwise recolored generic unit sprites) that are unavailable in Law, but what you do get generally outshines everything you don't get.
** An inversion: Neutral route in the PSP and ''Reborn'' versions is made to be the least desirable route because [[spoiler:Gildas dies.]] This bars you from doing the Coda scenarios at all since the first one requires [[spoiler:Gildas]] in your party. Even more so in ''Reborn'' because said Coda also raises the maximum level cap to 50, which means Neutral players are stuck at Level 45 unless they use the time travel to try another route and [[spoiler:pick up Gildas]]. However, players are most likely taking this route first out of pragmatism because Arycelle's drop in loyalty becomes harder to fix if other route is taken first.[[note]]The easiest way to raise loyalty is to raise skill/weapon levels, or in case of ''Reborn'', merely leveling up. If everything has been maximized before tackling the Neutral route, there are only fewer easy ways to raise Arycelle's level and loyalty.[[/note]]

* FightingAShadow: Late game you can fight {{avatar}}s of servants of the gods in the shrines; or using a special "tuning forks" through ItemCrafting in a bonus dungeons, {{avatar}}s of the 12 Heavenly Generals; based on Indian mythology. Killing them can give you special drops, but if you go through the shrine again, they'll still be there; or if you have another tuning fork. The divine servants are actually pleased you're doing this.

* BonusLevelOfHell: It will test your patience more than your skill, but the Palace of the Dead has 115 floors, and there's a fight on all of them (except the 3 shops). The EXP and SP rewards are also pitifully low on each floor. In the original, it was appropriately translated as ''Hell Gate'' and serves as something of an evil counterpart to the San Bronsa Ruins.

*** ''Reborn'' fixed this to a degree by making spellcasters only able to equip up to 4 spells at a time. However, their AI usually prioritizes casting offensive spells over debuffs and status effects.

*** ''Reborn'' fixed this to a degree by making spellcasters only able to equip up to 4 spells at a time. However, it seems like their AI doesn't end up prioritizing debuffs at all, despite them being equipped.

* AscendedExtra: Some generic enemy leaders is given Warren Report entries in the PSP remake, most prominently Mordova (previously a witch, now a Necromancer), and Hektorr (originally named Didario, this was his first name, and he's now linked further with Nybeth's story).

** In grand ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'' tradition, several villains do this. Deneb as always, although we don't ever meet her original body (she denies it to Canopus; but her "death" quote still says otherwise). Serene seems to be the only one to get permanently destroyed; and her host was sad about that. There's also Georges Sekendorff and Beelzemuth in the Palace of the Dead; killing the latter's body doesn't bother her; she's sure some other group of heroes will come down soon enough. Supplemental material reveals that Rudlum, found in the Palace of the Dead, is the villain Albeleo from the original ''VideoGame/OgreBattle'' game; also body surfing.

* BonusLevelOfHell: It will test your patience more than your skill, but the Palace of the Dead has 115 floors, and there's a fight on all of them (except the 3 shops). The EXP and SP rewards are also pitifully low on each floor. In the original, it was appropriately translated as ''Hell Gate'', and serves as something of an evil counterpart to the San Bronsa Ruins.

* BossBanter: Nearly every single boss in the remake has something to say during their battle, whether it be [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech The Reason You Suck]], a HannibalLecture, or just a BadassBoast.

* BreatherEpisode: Deneb's side quests is relatively more light hearted than the whole game.

** Chapter three Chaotic, where you fight both Oz ''and'' Ozma. Changed up in the PSP version in the lawful route, where the boss is Oz and ''Balxephon''. (whereas it was just Oz in the original.) The Penultimate boss is also just Barbas and Martym.

* ElementalRockPaperScissors: An odd limited version: Light and dark are weak to each other, and strong against themselves. The other elements also resist themselves, but are not particularly effective against one another.

* HeroicBastard: [[spoiler:Vice]] in Tactics Ogre's Law route. Other routes turn [[spoiler: him]] into a literal bastard.

** Unfortunately, it's very tedious, with a long animation for ''every'' sub-combine, and no ability to make multiples at a time, and it can fail; thus, some of these sub-materials can involve over thirty previous item crafting processes to produce. Items can only be improved to +1, but are almost always better than the next "tier" of gear, often adding special effects as well.
** The ''Reborn'' version of the game keeps the crafting system, but fixes all of its issues by removing everything that made it tedious. The crafting animation is gone, you do not have to manually craft every sub-material anymore, and all of your recipes have a 100% success rate.

* MasterOfNone: Generic classes that "specialize" in more than one thing generally aren't too great. Valkyries/Rune Fencers can't dish out the magical damage that focused spellcasters can, or the physical damage that other classes can. Terror Knights can dish out decent physical damage, but are frailer than most front-liners and are the slowest unit; they can't manage the versatility or precision in debuffs that casters can, either. Et cetera.

* SNKBoss: Somehow, even if it's not a fighting/competitive game, ''Reborn'' provides a case of this trope as an EasterEgg. During a trek to the Palace of the Dead, if you enter a random battle where you deploy 12 characters, then there is a chance that you will encounter one of these two bosses: Allocer or Aym (Haborim in Japanese). Yes, they're basically the absurdly powerful incarnations of Arycelle and Hobyrim in the SFC/PSX versions... now as your enemy. Not only they are surrounded with Level 55 enemies while they're at Level 60 themselves, they have 1000+ points for their primary stats, which means they can easily one shot your squishy units to death. They also break the normal rules of a normal Archer and Swordmaster respectively. It's more advised to retreat from the battle if you're not specifically preparing to hunt them down.

* SNKBoss: During a trek to the Palace of the Dead in ''Reborn'', if you enter a random battle where you deploy 12 characters, then there is a chance that you will encounter two easter egg bosses: Allocer or Aym (Haborim in Japanese). Yes, they're basically the absurdly powerful incarnations of Arycelle and Hobyrim in the SFC/PSX versions... now as your enemy. Not only they are surrounded with Level 55 enemies while they're at Level 60 themselves, they have 1000+ points for their primary stats, which means they can easily one shot your squishy units to death. They also break the normal rules of a normal Archer and Swordmaster respectively. It's more advised to retreat from the battle if you're not specifically preparing to hunt them down.

** Dame Ravness, a new character added in the PSP version, is extremely similar to Final Fantasy Tactics' Holy Knight Agrias Oaks. Both in position, attitude and looks, they are almost the same character. Ravness' battle sprite is pretty much Agrias with a lighter colored hair and her unique class is the White Knight!

** In the original version of the game, your own army is always at risk of permanent death. They can still die in the remakes, and on your original run they'll largely stay that way, but they can each be replaced through the [[TimeTravel World Tarot]] in the post game.

* HiddenBackupPrince: [[spoiler:Caitua is secretly the illegitimate daughter of King Dorgalua; her mother was driven out of the palace by the queen when Caitua's conception was discovered, and said mother died in childbirth. Unlike many a [[HiddenBackupPrince Hidden Backup Royal]], Caitua's life wasn't preserved as a fail-safe, but rather because the two men who ended up deciding what to do with her couldn't bring themselves to throw the baby to the wolves (for varying reasons). One of these two men became her adopted father, who named her for (and acted like she ''was'') the infant daughter he recently lost. Caitua [[HeroicBSOD does not]] [[FaceHeelTurn take it well]], and all the circumstances surrounding her discovery of her true parentage (and what it means about the people she thought were her family) can throw her across the DespairEventHorizon and [[DrivenToSuicide drive her to suicide.]]]]

* KarmaHoudiniWarranty: Balxephon was a KarmaHoudini in the original game - but the remake adds a plot thread in which the other Lodissians learn about what he did, thanks to some AdaptationExpansion in Ozma having been his girlfriend. This is reinforced by Volaq in his optional boss fight when he informs Ozma that Balxephon wil be tried ''after'' they get back to Lodis.

** Magic received a significant nerf in the PSP version, needing multiple skills to augment certain element(s) and to stack "Averse" debuffs and/or attuned buffs before it kept up with the damage done by melees and archers. It received a buff in ''Reborn'', but crafted weapons and finishers can still outdamage them ''easily''. One thing that helps is that weapon strength does help increase the damage of spells now.

** Warlocks also fall into this, moreso in ''Knight of Lodis'', where their preferred weapons are swords.

* NeutralNoLonger: There are a few maps with powerful, overleveled neutral dragons just hanging about. Ordinarily they do nothing, simply maneuvering the battlefield. The moment one side is careless with their spells or abilities and strikes them however, they'll turn on them and assist the other.
* NoArcInArchery: You'll love that they averted this whenever you start on the top of a map, and hate them for it whenever you're at the bottom. Crossbows even get their own, mostly accurate arcs -- straight forward.

* ObviousRulePatch: ''Reborn'' removes TP and instead has Finishing Moves cast from the Mana pool like every other skill. To counterbalance this and keep the player from stocking up on Magic Leaves to nuke everything they encounter, they, and any other MP restoring items aside from a single item that only recovers 10% of your HP and MP, can not be purchased from shops.

* {{Pirate}}: Diego[[spoiler:/Azelstan]]. Formerly a type 1, he freely admits to having done worse than murdering children out of spite, until his daughter was killed and he put it all behind him to take up drinking and cynicism. His buccaneer class can equip a [[SwordAndGun sword and fusil simultaneously]], if you want.

** The Chaos Route in the SNES/PSX/Saturn version, if only for being the only way to recruit Arycelle and all four of the Phoraena sisters in the same playthrough. This was also the only route you could have ''four'' Shamans at once.

** An inversion: Neutral route in the PSP and ''Reborn'' versions is made to be the least desirable route because [[spoiler:Gildas dies.]] This bars you from doing the Coda scenarios at all since the first one requires [[spoiler:Gildas]] in your party. Even moreso in ''Reborn'' because said Coda also raises the maximum level cap to 50, which means Neutral players are stuck at Level 45 unless they use the time travel to try another route and [[spoiler:pick up Gildas]]. However, players are most likely taking this route first out of pragmatism because Arycelle's drop in loyalty becomes harder to fix if other route is taken first[[note]]The easiest way to raise loyalty is to raise skill/weapon levels, or in case of ''Reborn'', merely leveling up. If everything has been maximized before tackling the Neutral route, there are only fewer easy ways to raise Arycelle's level and loyalty.[[/note]]

*** Once you finish the game, Chaos Frame menu in the Warren Report is displayed. Even if they still won't tell you how to actually raise it, it still gives a hint on when you can do the Cressida recruitment quest in the Chaos route without having her leave in the end and forcing you to redo it all over again.

* DownerEnding: Neither ending where [[spoiler:Katchua kills herself and Denam becomes King ends well. Depending on your chaos frame (and obscure stat based on how many Galgastani you've killed), Denam will either be assassinated by a Galgastani radical at his coronation, or Lodis will return with a proper army to conquer Valeria, which King Tristan in Xenobia notes will almost certainly end in defeat for Denam and Valeria.]] The only happy ending comes [[spoiler:if you talk Katchua out of suicide which leads to her becoming queen at the end.]]