History UsefulNotes / GermanPeculiarities

22nd May '17 12:42:36 PM InnothenjaValentin
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Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (as of October 2016 there are 50 stores and five more planned until 2019, in comparison: the entire US has 44) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.

to:

Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (as of October 2016 there are 50 51 stores and five more planned until 2019, in comparison: the entire US has 44) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.
22nd May '17 5:36:22 AM InnothenjaValentin
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Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (as of October 2016 there are 50 and five more planned until 2019, in comparison: the entire US has 44) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.

to:

Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (as of October 2016 there are 50 stores and five more planned until 2019, in comparison: the entire US has 44) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.
22nd May '17 5:35:32 AM InnothenjaValentin
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Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, in comparison: the entire US has 50) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.

to:

Now, Ikea is of course a Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, (as of October 2016 there are 50 and five more planned until 2019, in comparison: the entire US has 50) 44) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.
16th May '17 12:28:42 PM Kamikashi
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Today, the worldwide export of its products is one of the most important pillars of the German economy. For some time, Germany exported more than even the US - not in percentages, in absolute numbers! The stigma turned cachet ''Made in Germany'' can arguably seen as significant factor which contributed to this development. Even to this day a number of German companies that would be too large to list here are world leaders in their field (often rather obscure fields only of interest to industry experts but nonetheless essential) and they often produce mostly or exclusively in Germany exporting worldwide. To give just one example of the importance of family-led "small" companies known as the ''Mittelstand'' (middle estate) in Germany, the town of Herzogenaurach is famous for and headquarters of Adidas and Puma, but the biggest employer is INA Schaeffler, a company producing ball bearings and one of the handful of top companies in that segment.

to:

Today, the worldwide export of its products is one of the most important pillars of the German economy. For some time, Germany exported more than even the US - not in percentages, in absolute numbers! The stigma turned cachet ''Made in Germany'' can arguably seen as significant factor which contributed to this development. Even to this day a number of German companies that would be too large to list here are world leaders in their field (often rather obscure fields only of interest to industry experts but nonetheless essential) and they often produce mostly or exclusively in Germany exporting worldwide. To give just one example of the importance of family-led "small" companies known as the ''Mittelstand'' (middle estate) class) in Germany, the town of Herzogenaurach is famous for and headquarters of Adidas and Puma, but the biggest employer is INA Schaeffler, a company producing ball bearings and one of the handful of top companies in that segment.
22nd Apr '17 12:41:14 PM Kamikashi
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Nowadays nobody sane in Germany wants to start a war in Europe, but people still like their Autobahn very much. There's still for a (small) part no speed limit on them, which was unique in the world for quite some time. People who wanted to change this (like the [[UsefulNotes/PoliticalSystemOfGermany Green Party]]) faced too much resistance and gave up on the issue. "Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger!" (Free driving for free citizens!) is a slogan used by car lobbyists and enthusiasts alike (though might attract giggles from juvenile English listeners). The car lobby in Germany is roughly comparable in power to the [[UsefulNotes/AmericanGunPolitics American pro-gun lobby.]] There are strict speed limits on the more dangerous parts, and a list of other rules are in place to allow as smooth travel as possible. One of these is that every vehicle has to be able to drive at least 70 km/h (43 mph). Another is that it is illegal to run out of fuel, or insult other drivers[[note]]For the latter one, just as for stopping in a dangerous curve for no reason, the penalty may be even ''imprisonment''[[/note]]. Travel is done in the right lane with one only being permitted to use the left lane for passing. ''No'' passing in the right lane is permitted. During TheSeventies, many new Autobahnen were built - during this decade, the network almost doubled its length. In 2010, Germany had about 13,000 kilometers of Autobahn, one of the densest networks in the world, and the third longest, after the United States and China. Which means a lot in a country the size of Montana.

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Nowadays nobody sane in Germany wants to start a war in Europe, but people still like their Autobahn very much. There's still for a (small) part no speed limit on them, which was unique in the world for quite some time. People who wanted to change this (like the [[UsefulNotes/PoliticalSystemOfGermany Green Party]]) faced too much resistance and gave up on the issue. "Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger!" (Free driving for free citizens!) is a slogan used by car lobbyists and enthusiasts alike (though might attract giggles from juvenile English listeners). The car lobby in Germany is roughly comparable in power to the [[UsefulNotes/AmericanGunPolitics American pro-gun lobby.]] There are strict speed limits on the more dangerous parts, and a list of other rules are in place to allow as smooth travel as possible. One of these is that every vehicle has to be able to drive at least 70 60 km/h (43 (37 mph). Another is that it is illegal to run out of fuel, or insult other drivers[[note]]For the latter one, just as for stopping in a dangerous curve for no reason, the penalty may be even ''imprisonment''[[/note]]. Travel is done in the right lane with one only being permitted to use the left lane for passing. ''No'' passing in the right lane is permitted. During TheSeventies, many new Autobahnen were built - during this decade, the network almost doubled its length. In 2010, Germany had about 13,000 kilometers of Autobahn, one of the densest networks in the world, and the third longest, after the United States and China. Which means a lot in a country the size of Montana.
20th Jan '17 3:40:16 PM onionmaster
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Now, Ikea is of course a danish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, in comparison: the entire US has 50) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.

to:

Now, Ikea is of course a danish Swedish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, in comparison: the entire US has 50) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long amounts of time can attest themselves.
29th Dec '16 9:08:36 PM ADrago
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Most of the TV recording is unfortunately LostForever, including the whole soundtrack. Fortunately, the {{radio}} comment by Herbert Zimmermann has survived (and always was better known anyway, since few Germans had TV then). His [[LargeHam emotional reporting style]] stands out even today ("Deutschland im Endspiel der Fußballweltmeisterschaft das ist eine Riesen-Sensation das ist ein echtes Fußball-Wunder" - "Germany in the football finals - that's a huge sensation - that's a real football miracle"; "Gott sei Dank! Es steht nur noch 2:1." - "Thank {{God}}! It's only 2-1 now."; "Halten Sie mich für verrückt, halten Sie mich für übergeschnappt" - "Call me crazy, call me nuts"; ) and especially his comments when Germany scored the winning goal ("Aus dem Hintergrund müsste Rahn schießen, Rahn schießt - TOR, TOR, TOR!" - "Rahn has to shoot from the background, Rahn shoots - goal, goal, goal!"), when Turek saved one last time ("Turek, du bist ein Teufelskerl, Turek, du bist ein Fußballgott" - "Turek, you're a MagnificentBastard; Turek, you're a football god") and after the final whistle ("AUS! AUS! AUS! Das Spiel ist aus. Deutschland ist Weltmeister, schlägt Ungarn 3 zu 2!" - "Over! Over! Over! The game is over! Germany are World Champions, beat Hungary 32!") In 2003, a movie about the match was made in Germany, with the very same title: ''Das Wunder von Bern''.

to:

Most of the TV recording is unfortunately LostForever, [[MissingEpisode lost]], including the whole soundtrack. Fortunately, the {{radio}} comment by Herbert Zimmermann has survived (and always was better known anyway, since few Germans had TV then). His [[LargeHam emotional reporting style]] stands out even today ("Deutschland im Endspiel der Fußballweltmeisterschaft das ist eine Riesen-Sensation das ist ein echtes Fußball-Wunder" - "Germany in the football finals - that's a huge sensation - that's a real football miracle"; "Gott sei Dank! Es steht nur noch 2:1." - "Thank {{God}}! It's only 2-1 now."; "Halten Sie mich für verrückt, halten Sie mich für übergeschnappt" - "Call me crazy, call me nuts"; ) and especially his comments when Germany scored the winning goal ("Aus dem Hintergrund müsste Rahn schießen, Rahn schießt - TOR, TOR, TOR!" - "Rahn has to shoot from the background, Rahn shoots - goal, goal, goal!"), when Turek saved one last time ("Turek, du bist ein Teufelskerl, Turek, du bist ein Fußballgott" - "Turek, you're a MagnificentBastard; Turek, you're a football god") and after the final whistle ("AUS! AUS! AUS! Das Spiel ist aus. Deutschland ist Weltmeister, schlägt Ungarn 3 zu 2!" - "Over! Over! Over! The game is over! Germany are World Champions, beat Hungary 32!") In 2003, a movie about the match was made in Germany, with the very same title: ''Das Wunder von Bern''.
15th Dec '16 11:17:16 AM HiddenWindshield
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Meanwhile in East Germany the government encouraged patriotism on its terms, and facilitated it by treating the Nazis as something alien to the Victorious German Working Class. This led to the odd situation that the uniforms of the East German armed forces resembled those of the Nazi Wehrmacht more than those of the West German ones. For a long time East Germany defined itself was the "better Germany" and still paid lip service to the stated goal of reunification. It was only some time after the building of the Wall that the government tried to foster a GDR identity completely separate from the rest of Germany, but as the events of 1989-1990 showed, that did not quite work. Since 1989 attitudes have relaxed somewhat. It helped that many people abroad actually turned out to be happy for the reunited Germans, and that the 2006 [[UsefulNotes/TheWorldCup World Cup]] in Germany showed that even German association football fans could be happy for their team and proud of their nation while still be welcoming hosts for the international teams and their fans. However, things started taking a turn towards the other direction again with the rise of a right wing populist party in the mid 2010s and ''Pegida'' demonstrations that are chock full of black red yellow flags (albeit some of them in a weird "Scandinavian cross" design that was invented by the 1944 coup attempt against Hitler and is now popular with the political right, just like black white red flags were in the past). In general, a German waving around a flag unrelated to a sports event is almost universally presumed to be politically on the right.

to:

Meanwhile in East Germany the government encouraged patriotism on its terms, and facilitated it by treating the Nazis as something alien to the Victorious German Working Class. This led to the odd situation that the uniforms of the East German armed forces resembled those of the Nazi Wehrmacht more than those of the West German ones. For a long time East Germany defined itself was the "better Germany" and still paid lip service to the stated goal of reunification. It was only some time after the building of the Wall that the government tried to foster a GDR identity completely separate from the rest of Germany, but as the events of 1989-1990 showed, that did not quite work. Since 1989 attitudes have relaxed somewhat. It helped that many people abroad actually turned out to be happy for the reunited Germans, and that the 2006 [[UsefulNotes/TheWorldCup World Cup]] in Germany showed that even German association football fans could be happy for their team and proud of their nation while still be being welcoming hosts for the international teams and their fans. However, things started taking a turn towards the other direction again with the rise of a right wing populist party in the mid 2010s and ''Pegida'' demonstrations that are chock full of black red yellow flags (albeit some of them in a weird "Scandinavian cross" design that was invented by the 1944 coup attempt against Hitler and is now popular with the political right, just like black white red flags were in the past). In general, a German waving around a flag unrelated to a sports event is almost universally presumed to be politically on the right.
24th Nov '16 2:46:17 PM Seraphine
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Meanwhile in East Germany the government encouraged patriotism on its terms, and facilitated it by treating the Nazis as something alien to the Victorious German Working Class. This led to the odd situation that the uniforms of the East German armed forces resembled those of the Nazi Wehrmacht more than those of the West German ones. For a long time East Germany defined itself was the "better Germany" and still paid lip service to the stated goal of reunification. It was only some time after the building of the Wall that the government tried to foster a GDR identity completely separate from the rest of Germany, but as the events of 1989-1990 showed, that did not quite work. Since 1989 attitudes have relaxed somewhat. It helped that many people abroad actually turned out to be happy for the reunited Germans, and that the 2006 [[TheWorldCup World Cup]] in Germany showed that even German association football fans could be happy for their team and proud of their nation while still be welcoming hosts for the international teams and their fans. However, things started taking a turn towards the other direction again with the rise of a right wing populist party in the mid 2010s and ''Pegida'' demonstrations that are chock full of black red yellow flags (albeit some of them in a weird "Scandinavian cross" design that was invented by the 1944 coup attempt against Hitler and is now popular with the political right, just like black white red flags were in the past). In general, a German waving around a flag unrelated to a sports event is almost universally presumed to be politically on the right.

to:

Meanwhile in East Germany the government encouraged patriotism on its terms, and facilitated it by treating the Nazis as something alien to the Victorious German Working Class. This led to the odd situation that the uniforms of the East German armed forces resembled those of the Nazi Wehrmacht more than those of the West German ones. For a long time East Germany defined itself was the "better Germany" and still paid lip service to the stated goal of reunification. It was only some time after the building of the Wall that the government tried to foster a GDR identity completely separate from the rest of Germany, but as the events of 1989-1990 showed, that did not quite work. Since 1989 attitudes have relaxed somewhat. It helped that many people abroad actually turned out to be happy for the reunited Germans, and that the 2006 [[TheWorldCup [[UsefulNotes/TheWorldCup World Cup]] in Germany showed that even German association football fans could be happy for their team and proud of their nation while still be welcoming hosts for the international teams and their fans. However, things started taking a turn towards the other direction again with the rise of a right wing populist party in the mid 2010s and ''Pegida'' demonstrations that are chock full of black red yellow flags (albeit some of them in a weird "Scandinavian cross" design that was invented by the 1944 coup attempt against Hitler and is now popular with the political right, just like black white red flags were in the past). In general, a German waving around a flag unrelated to a sports event is almost universally presumed to be politically on the right.



Germany is crisscrossed by one of the densest railway networks in the world and UsefulNotes/DeutscheBahn carries two billion people a year in a country of a bit over 80 million people. Nonetheless Germans ''love'' complaining about Deutsche Bahn. Among the favorites are the unreliability of the trains being on time, the "unexpected weather" reactions that the Deutsche Bahn has to rain in spring and fall, heat in summer as well as snow in winter and to the announcements in the stations being harder to understand than morse code. So much so that some UsefulNotes/GermanHumor relies on simply saying something along the lines of "I took a train recently" as the German equivalent of "What's the deal with airline food".

to:

Germany is crisscrossed by one of the densest railway networks in the world and UsefulNotes/DeutscheBahn carries two billion people a year in a country of a bit over 80 million people. Nonetheless Germans ''love'' complaining about Deutsche Bahn. Among the favorites are the unreliability of the trains being on time, the "unexpected weather" reactions that the Deutsche Bahn has to rain in spring and fall, heat in summer as well as snow in winter and to the announcements in the stations being harder to understand than morse code. So much so that some UsefulNotes/GermanHumor GermanHumor relies on simply saying something along the lines of "I took a train recently" as the German equivalent of "What's the deal with airline food".
24th Nov '16 2:44:15 PM Seraphine
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Germany is crisscrossed by one of the densest railway networks in the world and UsefulNotes/DeutscheBahn carries two billion people a year in a country of a bit over 80 million people. Nonetheless Germans ''love'' complaining about Deutsche Bahn. Among the favorites are the unreliability of the trains being on time, the "unexpected weather" reactions that the Deutsche Bahn has to rain in spring and fall, heat in summer as well as snow in winter and to the announcements in the stations being harder to understand than morse code. So much so that some GermanHumor relies on simply saying something along the lines of "I took a train recently" as the German equivalent of "What's the deal with airline food".

to:

Germany is crisscrossed by one of the densest railway networks in the world and UsefulNotes/DeutscheBahn carries two billion people a year in a country of a bit over 80 million people. Nonetheless Germans ''love'' complaining about Deutsche Bahn. Among the favorites are the unreliability of the trains being on time, the "unexpected weather" reactions that the Deutsche Bahn has to rain in spring and fall, heat in summer as well as snow in winter and to the announcements in the stations being harder to understand than morse code. So much so that some GermanHumor UsefulNotes/GermanHumor relies on simply saying something along the lines of "I took a train recently" as the German equivalent of "What's the deal with airline food".



Now, Ikea is of course a danish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, in comparison: the entire US has 50) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package this troper can attest to the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long ammounts of time.

to:

Now, Ikea is of course a danish furniture shop, so what could it possibly do on a page about Germany? Well, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Germans ''love'' IKEA]]. It is one of the countries with the most IKEA shops (currently 46, in comparison: the entire US has 50) and the highest revenue (15% of IKEA's total turnover comes from Germany). The IKEA restaurant is in the Top 5 fastfood restaurants of Germany, Germany created a ''law'' called IKEA-Klausel [[note]]which allows the use of warranty when the client damaged his furniture by building it wrong ''if'' the building description is faulty itself[[/note]], a museum in Hamburg showed an exhibition about IKEA furniture and research about the "IKEA effect" [[note]]which describes that a person cares more about an object if they build it themselves[[/note]] is currently done on german citizens. It also seems like products sold in Germany are higher quality than those sold in America. While America IKEA seems to be almost-scrap wood from the moment it leaves the package this troper can attest to package, the legions of BILLY shelves making up the basis for storage of things in cellars or in attics for long ammounts amounts of time.time can attest themselves.
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