History UsefulNotes / AlcoholismAndAlcoholAbuse

14th Jul '16 11:17:07 AM MerryMikael
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** '''Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs''' Mistakes do happen. There are also those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.

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** '''Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs''' Mistakes do happen. There are also those rare few staffers who are dumb or dishonest enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.



** '''Not knowing your limits/ignoring them and consequently attempting to match people who can outdrink you''' Swallow your pride and accept that you're just not going to be able to down quite as many as your squad. If the bar staff opts to kick the entire group out and your friends have to carry you out or leave with you yet '' '''again''' '', it will piss your friends off, even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise. Enough instances of this and the next time that you try to have a night out with your friends, those same staff will say "you guys can come in, but your buddy is no longer welcome here", provided your friends don't opt to exclude you themselves.

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** '''Not knowing your limits/ignoring them and consequently attempting to match people who can outdrink you''' Swallow your pride and accept pride. Accept that you're just not going to be able to down quite as many as your squad. If the bar staff opts to kick the entire group out and your friends have to carry you out or leave with you yet '' '''again''' '', it will piss your friends off, even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise. Enough instances of this and the next time that you try to have a night out with your friends, those same staff will say "you guys can come in, but your buddy is no longer welcome here", provided here". That is if your friends don't opt to exclude you themselves.



* If you're a bouncer, odds are good you can sum this passage up instinctively: "Don't be a dickhead and do your goddamn job." Even so, elaboration on the standard societal perception of bouncers is necessary. The perception tends to cleave towards "barely-verbal, troglodytic meathead who only took the job to get a chance to get away with being a violent, power-tripping asshole". This isn't true as a whole, but anyone who has worked in nightlife can tell you there ''definitely'' are bouncers who fit this to a T. You should scrupulously avoid doing anything that could be seen as this. Basically, don't start or join in on fights, don't be a dick to patrons, don't argue with or antagonize drunks, don't blow up at rude patrons (no matter how egregious their misbehavior is), don't drink or do drugs on the job (should be a no-brainer, but, again, this is all too common in the nightlife industry) and listen to what patrons and coworkers are trying to tell you. Failure to do so could get you fired, ruin your reputation and restrict your job options to sketchy, poorly-managed shitholes. It could possibly even cause you to get your ass kicked or cost you your life if you piss off the wrong person.

to:

* If you're a bouncer, odds are good you can sum this passage up instinctively: "Don't be a dickhead and do "Do your goddamn job.job and don't act like a dick." Even so, elaboration on the standard societal perception of bouncers is necessary. The perception tends to cleave towards "barely-verbal, troglodytic meathead who only took the job to get a chance to get away with being a violent, power-tripping asshole". This isn't true as a whole, but anyone who has worked in nightlife can tell you there ''definitely'' are bouncers who fit this to a T. You should scrupulously avoid doing anything that could be seen as this. Basically, don't start or join in on fights, don't be a dick to patrons, don't argue with or antagonize drunks, don't blow up at rude patrons (no matter how egregious their misbehavior is), don't drink or do drugs on the job (should be a no-brainer, but, again, this is all too common in the nightlife industry) and listen to what patrons and coworkers are trying to tell you. Failure Failing to do so keep these in mind could get you fired, ruin your reputation and restrict your job options to sketchy, poorly-managed shitholes. It could possibly even cause you to get your ass kicked or cost you your life if you piss off the wrong person.



** Furthermore, negligence on your part that leads to drunk driving also can have major legal consequences for you. Taking keys at gatherings where people are likely to get piss drunk is customary not just because it's a very easy way to keep people from being able to drive drunk, but also because if you fail to take someone's keys and they subsequently go off and drive drunk (or worse, get into an accident) and they implicate you when asked where they got the alcohol by an arresting officer, you can get in ''serious'' trouble for negligence in the form of arrests or lawsuits. If you could have prevented it and failed to, your ass will be on the line.

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** Furthermore, negligence on your part that leads to drunk driving also can have major legal consequences for you. Taking keys at gatherings where people are likely to get piss drunk is customary customary. This is not just because it's a very easy way to keep people from being able to drive drunk, but also because if drunk. If you fail to take someone's keys and they subsequently go off and drive drunk (or worse, get into an accident) and accident), they implicate you when asked an arresting officer asks where they got the alcohol by an arresting officer, alcohol. In such a case you can get in ''serious'' trouble for negligence in the form of arrests or lawsuits. If you could have prevented it and failed to, your ass will be on the line.



* This also applies to other things that are dangerous, or even to things that might not ''seem'' dangerous at first glance. Drunk people (especially those who are also high on a stimulant at the same time, anything from too many Jagerbombs to cocaine or meth) ''can'' be highly inventive in regard to ways to get accidentally injured or killed. If someone could fall on it or fall off of or out of it, get stabbed or cut on it, choke themselves on it or with it, consume it when it shouldn't be consumed, shove it into a bodily orifice, etc, etc - make sure that it's not easily accessible to someone drunk.

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* This also applies to other things that are dangerous, dangerous or even to things that might not ''seem'' dangerous at first glance. Drunk people (especially those who are also high on a stimulant at the same time, anything from too many Jagerbombs to cocaine or meth) ''can'' be highly inventive in regard to ways to get accidentally injured or killed. If someone could fall on it or fall off of or out of it, get stabbed or cut on it, choke themselves on it or with it, consume it when it shouldn't be consumed, shove it into a bodily orifice, etc, etc - make sure that it's not easily accessible to someone drunk.



* If you have a friend who is a mean, abusive, belligerent or violent drunk and insists on drinking anyways even after having been made aware of their repellent behavior while they were sober and able to process it, you should probably not let them wander out of your sight if they're drunk. Be ready to defuse bad situations and/or break up fights and talk people out of continuing them. You never know if the person they're threatening or loudly insulting has a bad temper, is a skilled fighter or carries guns or knives on them. Even if your friend is steadily wearing away at your patience and desperately needs to accept that they have a problem and need treatment, the last thing you want is for them to wind up getting beaten to a pulp, stabbed or shot. Beating-related deaths or permanently-crippling injuries are particularly common among drunks due to the body's greatly dulled ability to perceive pain while inebriated, which leads to people getting up from injuries or attempting to struggle out of holds that would have a sober person howling in pain.

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* If you have a friend friends who is a mean, abusive, belligerent or violent drunk and insists on drinking anyways even after having drunk, has been made aware of informed about their repellent behavior while they were sober and able to process it, it and insists on drinking anyways even after that, you should probably not let them wander out of your sight if they're drunk. Be ready to defuse bad situations and/or break up fights and talk people out of continuing them. You never know if the person they're threatening or loudly insulting has a bad temper, is a skilled fighter or carries guns or knives on them. Even if your friend is steadily wearing away at your patience and desperately needs to accept that they have a problem and need treatment, the last thing you want is for them to wind up getting beaten to a pulp, stabbed or shot. Beating-related deaths or permanently-crippling injuries are particularly common among drunks due to the body's greatly dulled ability to perceive pain while inebriated, which leads to people getting up from injuries or attempting to struggle out of holds that would have a sober person howling in pain.
30th Jun '16 6:55:09 AM shokoshu
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* Nobody can really agree on safe, moderate, healthy or whatever guidelines for drinking. The only consistency between sources, even the same ones over time, seems to be that the new guidelines keep contradicting earlier guidelines. The only ironclad advice is that safe drinking and drinking habits become known by self-observation.

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* Nobody can really agree on safe, moderate, healthy or whatever guidelines for drinking. The only consistency between sources, even the same ones over time, seems to be that the new guidelines keep contradicting earlier guidelines. The only ironclad advice is that safe drinking and drinking habits become known by self-observation. In the same vein, nobody agrees which percentage of the population has an alcohol problem. (Especially, as cynics may say, they don't have the problem, their neighborhood has the problem.) [[http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/112736/1/9789240692763_eng.pdf?ua=1 WHO Report 2014]]
27th Jun '16 10:43:17 PM MerryMikael
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Whether someone can ever drink responsibly again after having been an alcoholic is an issue of [[FlameWar fierce debate]]. One side (that of most therapeutic opinion and of Alcoholics Anonymous) says that complete abstinence is required for anyone who ever reached the point of physical addiction. In some cases, being even short of that threshold is enough according to this side. It insists that any consumption of alcohol after beginning rehabilitation is a relapse. The other side (championed by Moderation Management, Rational Recovery, and some other therapists) postulates that it is ''possible'' for someone who was once an alcoholic to drink responsibly/on a limited basis - given the variables of personal willpower to do so, and structured settings to reduce temptation to overconsume or revert to addictive use. That said, with the development of medication treatments that can, if properly adhered to, restore the ability to stop drinking/"have enough," moderation/harm reduction ''can'' possibly be a more viable alternative to abstinence than it was in the past when it relied solely on self-control that an alcoholic almost always by definition doesn't have.

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!Rehabilitation

Whether someone can ever drink responsibly again after having been an alcoholic is an issue of [[FlameWar fierce debate]]. debate]].

One side (that of most therapeutic opinion and of Alcoholics Anonymous) says that complete abstinence is required for anyone who ever reached the point of physical addiction. In some cases, being even short of that threshold is enough according to this side. It insists that any consumption of alcohol after beginning rehabilitation is a relapse. relapse.

The other side (championed by Moderation Management, Rational Recovery, Recovery and some other therapists) postulates that it is ''possible'' for someone who was once an alcoholic to drink responsibly/on a limited basis - given basis. Considered are the variables of personal willpower to do so, so and structured settings to reduce temptation to overconsume or revert to addictive use. That said, with the development of medication treatments that can, if properly adhered to, restore the ability to stop drinking/"have enough," moderation/harm reduction ''can'' possibly be a more viable alternative to abstinence than it was in the past when it relied solely on self-control that an alcoholic almost always by definition doesn't have.



* If you're a bouncer, odds are good you can sum this passage up instinctively: "don't be a dickhead and do your goddamn job". Even so, elaboration on the standard societal perception of bouncers is necessary. The perception tends to cleave towards "barely-verbal, troglodytic meathead who only took the job to get a chance to get away with being a violent, power-tripping asshole". This isn't true as a whole, but anyone who has worked in nightlife can tell you that there ''definitely'' are bouncers who fit this to a T. You should scrupulously avoid doing anything that could be seen as this. Basically, don't start or join in on fights, don't be a dick to patrons, don't argue with or antagonize drunks, don't blow up at rude patrons (no matter how egregious their misbehavior is), don't drink or do drugs on the job (should be a no-brainer, but, again, this is all too common in the nightlife industry), and listen to what patrons and coworkers are trying to tell you. Failure to do so could get you fired, ruin your reputation and restrict your job options to sketchy, poorly-managed shitholes. It could possibly even cause you to get your ass kicked or cost you your life if you piss off the wrong person.

to:

* If you're a bouncer, odds are good you can sum this passage up instinctively: "don't "Don't be a dickhead and do your goddamn job". job." Even so, elaboration on the standard societal perception of bouncers is necessary. The perception tends to cleave towards "barely-verbal, troglodytic meathead who only took the job to get a chance to get away with being a violent, power-tripping asshole". This isn't true as a whole, but anyone who has worked in nightlife can tell you that there ''definitely'' are bouncers who fit this to a T. You should scrupulously avoid doing anything that could be seen as this. Basically, don't start or join in on fights, don't be a dick to patrons, don't argue with or antagonize drunks, don't blow up at rude patrons (no matter how egregious their misbehavior is), don't drink or do drugs on the job (should be a no-brainer, but, again, this is all too common in the nightlife industry), industry) and listen to what patrons and coworkers are trying to tell you. Failure to do so could get you fired, ruin your reputation and restrict your job options to sketchy, poorly-managed shitholes. It could possibly even cause you to get your ass kicked or cost you your life if you piss off the wrong person.



** Something a lot of people don't even realize could be dangerous here is ''food,'' specifically hard candies, nuts in shell, sections of soft pretzels, grapes, or food that contains inedible garnishes or bones. If you're putting out food for a party where you're expecting lots of people to be drunk, ask yourself if someone could choke on it - and if the answer is "yes," either don't serve it or remove the choking hazard, or serve it early on before people have the chance to be very drunk. Furthermore, think long and hard before you put out anything that contains common allergy triggers. Sober people are usually very good about remembering what their triggers are and are generally quite capable of administering an epinephrine shot if they carry an [=EpiPen=] on their person. Drunk people are forgetful and easily confused when things go awry and will not react to sudden changes in the way that they would if they were sober. In short, alcohol-induced forgetfulness and serious food allergies are a ''lethal'' combination. If a drunk person goes into anaphylaxis, their diminished ability to know just what the hell is going on means that death is a ''very'' real possibility.

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** Something a lot of people don't even realize could be dangerous here is ''food,'' specifically ''food''. Specifically hard candies, nuts in shell, sections of soft pretzels, grapes, grapes or food that contains inedible garnishes or bones. bones can prove to be hazardous. If you're putting out food for a party where you're expecting lots of people to be drunk, ask yourself if someone could choke on it - and if it. If the answer is "yes," either don't serve it or it, remove the choking hazard, hazard or serve it early on before people have the chance to be very drunk. Furthermore, think long and hard before you put out anything that contains common allergy triggers. Sober people are usually very good about remembering what their triggers are and are generally quite capable of administering an epinephrine shot if they carry an [=EpiPen=] on their person. Drunk people are forgetful and easily confused when things go awry and will not awry. They won't react to sudden changes in the way that they would if they were sober. In short, alcohol-induced forgetfulness and serious food allergies are a ''lethal'' combination. If a drunk person goes into anaphylaxis, their diminished ability to know just what the hell is going on means that death is a ''very'' real possibility.



* If someone drunk is being aggressive or overemotional, do your very best to distract them with something that doesn't involve starting a physical fight or harassing/insulting other people. Treat them like you would an unruly, tantrum-prone child: don't attempt to argue with them or convince them that their behavior is unacceptable, because they a). aren't functioning at a level where they can process it and b). don't really give a fuck anyways and very well may just take it as a reason to escalate things. Make simple, direct statements that don't come off as antagonistic, don't argue with them or take the bait if they try to start one, and if they're being aggressive or acting in a threatening manner, make sure that your distraction doesn't piss them off further and can hold for long enough to make them forget why they were angry. Drunks have short attention spans and tend to be forgetful - use this to your advantage.
** Additionally, if you wind up getting attacked, ''do not'' physically take your frustration out on them or fight them any more than you have to to get away from them. You will probably be understandably furious at having to deal with a violent drunk, but once again, drunks do not process pain on the same level that sober people do. They may [[ImplacableMan continually get up again and again]], but the injuries are still the same. Beat the shit out of them, and there's a good possibility that they won't realize that they've broken or dislocated a bone, received a major laceration, or even that they're bleeding internally (which is normally immensely painful). Again, lots of beating deaths where alcohol was a factor have boiled down to "the victim attacked the offender, got pounded into jelly, and was too drunk to know just how badly injured they were", and if someone winds up dying by your hands under similar circumstances, you will almost always be facing manslaughter charges.

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* If someone drunk is being aggressive or overemotional, do your very best to distract them with something that doesn't involve starting a physical fight or harassing/insulting other people. Treat them like you would an unruly, tantrum-prone child: don't attempt to argue with them or convince them that their behavior is unacceptable, because they a). aren't functioning at a level where they can process it and b). don't really give a fuck anyways and very well may just take it as a reason to escalate things. Make simple, direct statements that don't come off as antagonistic, don't argue with them or take the bait if they try to start one, and if they're being aggressive or acting in a threatening manner, make sure that your distraction doesn't piss them off further and can hold for long enough to make them forget why they were angry. Drunks have short attention spans and tend to be forgetful - use forgetful. Use this to your advantage.
** Additionally, if you wind up getting attacked, ''do not'' physically take your frustration out on them or them. '' '''Don't''' '' fight them any more than you have to to get away from them. You will probably be understandably furious at having to deal with a violent drunk, but once again, drunks do not process pain on the same level that sober people do. They may [[ImplacableMan continually get up again and again]], but the injuries are still the same. Beat the shit out of them, them and there's a good possibility that they won't realize that they've broken or dislocated a bone, received a major laceration, laceration or even that they're bleeding internally (which is normally immensely painful). Again, lots of beating deaths where with alcohol was as a factor have boiled down to "the victim attacked the offender, got pounded into jelly, jelly and was too drunk to know just how badly injured they were", and if were". If someone winds up dying by your hands under similar circumstances, you will almost always - almost certainly - be facing manslaughter charges.



* Most importantly, ''NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER LEAVE A SEVERELY DRUNK PERSON ALONE.'' This encompasses all of the above and the points below. Always make sure an adult who is at least ''somewhat'' sober is keeping an eye on anyone who is overwhelmingly drunk until they sober up. In an absolute pinch "buzzed" people are okay for supervising - in that someone who's only had a couple beers or smoked a little bit of a joint watching someone who is in a far more worse state is better than ''nobody'' watching them.

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* Most importantly, ''NEVER, '' '''NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER LEAVE A SEVERELY DRUNK PERSON ALONE.''' '' This encompasses all of the above and the points below. Always make sure an adult who is at least ''somewhat'' sober is keeping an eye on anyone who is overwhelmingly drunk until they sober up. In an absolute pinch "buzzed" people are okay for supervising - in that someone who's only had a couple beers or smoked a little bit of a joint watching someone who is in a far more worse state is better than ''nobody'' watching them.



Whether to call EmergencyServices, a private ambulance or a taxi or drive someone to the hospital yourself/have a sober driver drive them is a very complicated decision. If you have the money or connections for a private ambulance call, it is likely the very best option - medical assistance ensured to arrive solely with no law enforcement response and the person in a safe environment if they do begin experiencing a life-threatening issue. EmergencyServices is best if someone is experiencing life-threatening problems and you ''don't'' have the means for a private ambulance call - and it is ''sometimes'' possible to avoid law enforcement response if you give the person's age as being of legal age and you emphasize that there is no violence or threat of violence. Your/someone else's vehicle or a taxi, however, is the best idea IF, and only IF, the person is NOT experiencing any of the life-threatening symptoms (e.g. their breathing is fine and they are not seizing) and the concern is dehydration/sickness/vomiting or similar alone.

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Whether to call EmergencyServices, a private ambulance or a taxi or drive someone to the hospital yourself/have a sober driver drive them is a very complicated decision. If you have the money or connections for a private ambulance call, it is likely the very best option - medical assistance ensured to arrive solely with no law enforcement response and the person in a safe environment if they do begin experiencing a life-threatening issue. EmergencyServices is best if someone is experiencing life-threatening problems and you ''don't'' have the means for a private ambulance call - and it is ''sometimes'' possible to avoid law enforcement response if you give the person's age as being of legal age and you emphasize that there is no violence or threat of violence. Your/someone else's vehicle or a taxi, however, is the best idea IF, ''if'', and only IF, '' '''if''' '', the person is NOT '' '''not''' '' experiencing any of the life-threatening symptoms (e.g. their breathing is fine and they are not seizing) and the concern is dehydration/sickness/vomiting or similar alone.
27th Jun '16 10:29:47 PM MerryMikael
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** Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs. Mistakes do happen. There are also those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.
** Habitually being rude, belligerent, or verbally abusive. This ties into the whole mean drunk thing. If drinking turns you into an abusive asshole, quit drinking.
** Sexually harassing patrons or staff. The same goes for this: if drinking turns you into a disgusting lecherous creep, stop drinking.
** Being obnoxious. Obviously, "obnoxious" is kind of a subjective definition. If, however, your behavior while drunk would irritate a reasonable person enough to get them to ask the bouncers to step in and the bouncers agreed that you were being annoying enough to warrant an ejection, you should at least '' '''think''' '' about drinking less. If it takes a certain amount to get you to go from "fun" to "holy shit someone tell that jackass in the flannel shirt with the gauges to shut the fuck up" kind of obnoxious, consider reducing the amount of drinking.
** Starting or participating in fights. As anyone in nightlife can tell you, fights happen. There are times when they may genuinely not be your fault. People do sometimes have to defend themselves against unprovoked attacks from others or get dragged into brawls when they were trying to clear out. Some people look for excuses to fight and/or perceive provocation, slight or insult that's actually entirely inside their minds. However, if you become aggressive when drunk and respond to things that sober people would see as minor annoyances by getting in the faces of others, inviting them out front, informing them that you'll be waiting outside or taking swings at them, the bar staff have every right to ban you for life and/or call the cops. You should absolutely view your first fight-related ban or arrest as a major wake-up call.
** Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses off staff and other patrons alike. By that point you have likely long since reached the cutoff point. Staff could be tending to less-irritating patrons, who can actually be served. Other patrons don't want to listen to slurred, incoherent and frankly asinine "wisdom". Anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you that being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.
** Not knowing your limits/ignoring them and attempting to match people who can outdrink you. Swallow your pride and accept that you're just not going to be able to down quite as many as your squad. Even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise, it will piss your friends off when they have to carry you out or leave with you yet AGAIN because the bar staff opted to kick the entire group out, and enough instances of this will get those same staff to say "you guys can come in, but your buddy is no longer welcome here" the next time that you try to have a night out with them if they don't opt to do it themselves.

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** Habitually '''Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs. tabs''' Mistakes do happen. There are also those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.
** Habitually '''Habitually being rude, belligerent, or verbally abusive. abusive''' This ties into the whole mean drunk thing. If drinking turns you into an abusive asshole, quit drinking.
** Sexually '''Sexually harassing patrons or staff. staff''' The same goes for this: if drinking turns you into a disgusting lecherous creep, stop drinking.
** Being obnoxious. '''Being obnoxious''' Obviously, "obnoxious" is kind of a subjective definition. If, however, your behavior while drunk would irritate a reasonable person enough to get them to ask the bouncers to step in and the bouncers agreed that you were being annoying enough to warrant an ejection, you should at least '' '''think''' '' about drinking less. If it takes a certain amount to get you to go from "fun" to "holy shit someone tell that jackass in the flannel shirt with the gauges to shut the fuck up" kind of obnoxious, consider reducing the amount of drinking.
** Starting '''Starting or participating in fights. fights''' As anyone in nightlife can tell you, fights happen. There are times when they may genuinely not be your fault. People do sometimes have to defend themselves against unprovoked attacks from others or get dragged into brawls when they were trying to clear out. Some people look for excuses to fight and/or perceive provocation, slight or insult that's actually entirely inside their minds. However, if you become aggressive when drunk and respond to things that sober people would see as minor annoyances by getting in the faces of others, inviting them out front, informing them that you'll be waiting outside or taking swings at them, the bar staff have every right to ban you for life and/or call the cops. You should absolutely view your first fight-related ban or arrest as a major wake-up call.
** Sitting '''Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. disruptive''' Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses off staff and other patrons alike. By that point you have likely long since reached the cutoff point. Staff could be tending to less-irritating less irritating patrons, who can actually be served. Other patrons don't want to listen to slurred, incoherent and frankly asinine "wisdom". Anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you that being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.
** Not '''Not knowing your limits/ignoring them and consequently attempting to match people who can outdrink you. you''' Swallow your pride and accept that you're just not going to be able to down quite as many as your squad. Even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise, it will piss If the bar staff opts to kick the entire group out and your friends off when they have to carry you out or leave with you yet AGAIN because the bar staff opted to kick the entire group out, and enough '' '''again''' '', it will piss your friends off, even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise. Enough instances of this will get and the next time that you try to have a night out with your friends, those same staff to will say "you guys can come in, but your buddy is no longer welcome here" the next time that you try to have a night out with them if they here", provided your friends don't opt to do it exclude you themselves.



* ''Dangerous behavior while under the influence'' is another warning sign that should be taken with the utmost seriousness. It means that your(or another person's) irresponsible use of alcohol is ''immediately life-threatening'', as opposed to liver damage or cancer or other long-term effects. If you find yourself getting into even one car accident drunk, walking on a freeway, fighting people twice your size and stronger than you (or even just randomly going up to people and starting shit with them - you never know when someone might be a trained martial artist or have weapons on them), engaging in unwanted or unsafe sex, jumping from windows or other heights, using firearms, attempting or even contemplating suicide, breaking bones or sustaining other injuries requiring hospital treatment or anything similar while drunk, you need to either immediately stop drinking or seek treatment for alcoholism. This is also a major warning sign that you may be self-medicating or triggering another underlying mental illness with alcohol.

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* ''Dangerous behavior while under the influence'' is another warning sign that should to be be taken with the utmost seriousness. It means that your(or another person's) irresponsible use of alcohol is ''immediately life-threatening'', as opposed to liver damage or cancer or other long-term effects. If you find yourself getting into even one car accident drunk, walking on a freeway, fighting people twice your size and stronger than you (or even just randomly going up to people and starting shit with them - you never know when someone might be a trained martial artist or have weapons on them), engaging in unwanted or unsafe sex, jumping from windows or other heights, using firearms, attempting or even contemplating suicide, breaking bones or sustaining other injuries requiring hospital treatment or anything similar while drunk, you need to either immediately stop drinking or seek treatment for alcoholism. This is also a major warning sign that you may be self-medicating or triggering another underlying mental illness with alcohol.



Whether someone can ever drink responsibly again after having been an alcoholic is an issue of [[FlameWar fierce debate]]: one side (that of most therapeutic opinion and of Alcoholics Anonymous) says that complete abstinence is required for anyone who ever reached the point of physical addiction (or, in some cases, even short of that threshold) and insists that any consumption of alcohol after beginning rehabilitation is a relapse. The other side (championed by Moderation Management, Rational Recovery, and some other therapists) postulates that it is ''possible'' for someone who was once an alcoholic to drink responsibly/on a limited basis - given the variables of personal willpower to do so, and structured settings to reduce temptation to overconsume or revert to addictive use. That said, with the development of medication treatments that can, if properly adhered to, restore the ability to stop drinking/"have enough," moderation/harm reduction ''can'' possibly be a more viable alternative to abstinence than it was in the past when it relied solely on self-control that an alcoholic almost always by definition doesn't have.

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Whether someone can ever drink responsibly again after having been an alcoholic is an issue of [[FlameWar fierce debate]]: one debate]]. One side (that of most therapeutic opinion and of Alcoholics Anonymous) says that complete abstinence is required for anyone who ever reached the point of physical addiction (or, in addiction. In some cases, being even short of that threshold) and threshold is enough according to this side. It insists that any consumption of alcohol after beginning rehabilitation is a relapse. The other side (championed by Moderation Management, Rational Recovery, and some other therapists) postulates that it is ''possible'' for someone who was once an alcoholic to drink responsibly/on a limited basis - given the variables of personal willpower to do so, and structured settings to reduce temptation to overconsume or revert to addictive use. That said, with the development of medication treatments that can, if properly adhered to, restore the ability to stop drinking/"have enough," moderation/harm reduction ''can'' possibly be a more viable alternative to abstinence than it was in the past when it relied solely on self-control that an alcoholic almost always by definition doesn't have.
27th Jun '16 10:13:10 PM MerryMikael
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* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed. There are exceptions (disputes over tips or bad reviews, someone in your group started trouble and got everyone kicked out, you failed to meet the dress code, you're associated with known troublemakers and they just don't want to risk more problems), but it's safe to say that the following reasons for ejection or blacklisting ''cannot'' be whitewashed so easily:
** Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs. Yes, mistakes do happen and there are those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.

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* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed. There are exceptions (disputes over tips or bad reviews, someone else in your group started trouble and got everyone kicked out, you failed to meet the dress code, you're associated with known troublemakers and they just don't want to risk more problems), but it's safe to say that the following reasons for ejection or blacklisting ''cannot'' be whitewashed so easily:
** Habitually disputing or refusing to pay tabs. Yes, mistakes Mistakes do happen and there happen. There are also those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you either won't notice or will be too drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or an outright ban are cause for concern.



** Sexually harassing patrons or staff. Like the above, if drinking turns you into a disgusting lecherous creep, then stop drinking.
** Being obnoxious. Obviously, "obnoxious" is kind of a subjective definition, but if your behavior while drunk would irritate a reasonable person enough to get them to ask the bouncers to step in and the bouncers agreed that you were being annoying enough to warrant an ejection, you should at least THINK about drinking less if it takes a certain amount to get you to go from "fun" to "holy shit someone tell that jackass in the flannel shirt with the gauges to shut the fuck up".
** Starting or participating in fights. As anyone in nightlife can tell you, fights happen. There will be times where they may genuinely not be your fault - people do sometimes have to defend themselves against attacks from others or get dragged into brawls when they were trying to clear out. However, if you become aggressive when drunk and respond to things that sober people would see as minor annoyances by getting in the faces of others, inviting them out front or informing them that you'll be waiting outside, or taking swings at them, the bar staff have every right to ban you for life and/or call the cops and you should absolutely view your first fight-related ban or arrest as a major wake-up call.
** Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses off staff (who could be tending to less-irritating patrons who can actually be served, as you have likely long since reached the cutoff point) and patrons (who don't want to listen to your slurred, incoherent, and frankly asinine "wisdom") alike. As anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you, being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.

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** Sexually harassing patrons or staff. Like the above, The same goes for this: if drinking turns you into a disgusting lecherous creep, then stop drinking.
** Being obnoxious. Obviously, "obnoxious" is kind of a subjective definition, but if definition. If, however, your behavior while drunk would irritate a reasonable person enough to get them to ask the bouncers to step in and the bouncers agreed that you were being annoying enough to warrant an ejection, you should at least THINK '' '''think''' '' about drinking less if less. If it takes a certain amount to get you to go from "fun" to "holy shit someone tell that jackass in the flannel shirt with the gauges to shut the fuck up".
up" kind of obnoxious, consider reducing the amount of drinking.
** Starting or participating in fights. As anyone in nightlife can tell you, fights happen. There will be are times where when they may genuinely not be your fault - people fault. People do sometimes have to defend themselves against unprovoked attacks from others or get dragged into brawls when they were trying to clear out. Some people look for excuses to fight and/or perceive provocation, slight or insult that's actually entirely inside their minds. However, if you become aggressive when drunk and respond to things that sober people would see as minor annoyances by getting in the faces of others, inviting them out front or front, informing them that you'll be waiting outside, outside or taking swings at them, the bar staff have every right to ban you for life and/or call the cops and you cops. You should absolutely view your first fight-related ban or arrest as a major wake-up call.
** Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses off staff (who could be tending to less-irritating and other patrons who can actually be served, as alike. By that point you have likely long since reached the cutoff point) and point. Staff could be tending to less-irritating patrons, who can actually be served. Other patrons (who don't want to listen to your slurred, incoherent, incoherent and frankly asinine "wisdom") alike. As anyone "wisdom". Anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you, you that being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.
8th May '16 2:03:28 PM HasturHasturHastur
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** Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses staff (who could be tending to less-irritating patrons who can actually be served, as you have likely long since reached the cutoff point) and patrons (who don't want to listen to your slurred, incoherent, and frankly asinine "wisdom") alike. As anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you, being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.

to:

** Sitting around all day being irritating and disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses off staff (who could be tending to less-irritating patrons who can actually be served, as you have likely long since reached the cutoff point) and patrons (who don't want to listen to your slurred, incoherent, and frankly asinine "wisdom") alike. As anyone who has worked in a bar can tell you, being this kind of regular ''will'' wear out your welcome.
8th May '16 2:02:00 PM HasturHasturHastur
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* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed.
** The exception is if an ejection or ban is ''entirely'' unrelated to drinking - e.g. over a dispute over not tipping/leaving a bad review in the case of spectacularly bad service, someone else in your band/party/group/etc. starting problems or you violating a dress code.
** You almost certainly have a drinking problem if you get ejected or banned because you habitually dispute or refuse to pay tabs. The only exception to this would be when someone genuinely has screwed it up or is obviously trying to rip you off. Yelling "I didn't order this shit!" because you're too wasted to remember ordering is a different story.
** You also have a problem if an ejection or a ban comes because you've started or participated in a fight, been obnoxious, belligerent or verbally abusive, sexually harassed other patrons or staff or been sitting around all day being annoying and disruptive.
** Not knowing your limits is another common reason for a ban. While it's generally not related to serious alcohol problems, regularly trying to match your friends shot-for-shot despite being unable to and then getting obnoxious or abusive ''will'' eventually make you PersonaNonGrata when the bar staff get sick of having to deal with your drunk ass.
** If your friends have to carry you out or find their nights cut short because you got the entire party ejected, you can be sure you've pissed off your friends.
** If a ban/an ejection isn't entirely related to drinking, you might just be an asshole.

to:

* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed.
** The exception is if an
filed. There are exceptions (disputes over tips or bad reviews, someone in your group started trouble and got everyone kicked out, you failed to meet the dress code, you're associated with known troublemakers and they just don't want to risk more problems), but it's safe to say that the following reasons for ejection or ban is ''entirely'' unrelated to drinking - e.g. over a dispute over not tipping/leaving a bad review in the case of spectacularly bad service, someone else in your band/party/group/etc. starting problems blacklisting ''cannot'' be whitewashed so easily:
** Habitually disputing
or you violating a dress code.
** You almost certainly have a drinking problem if you get ejected or banned because you habitually dispute or refuse
refusing to pay tabs. The only exception Yes, mistakes do happen and there are those rare few staffers who are dumb enough to this would be when someone genuinely has screwed it up or is obviously trying to rip try and sneak in extra charges while hoping that you off. Yelling "I didn't order this shit!" because you're either won't notice or will be too wasted drunk to have your word taken seriously if you do. We're not talking about those times. These are the times where the charges are all totally legitimate and you were just too drunk to remember ordering is a different story.
** You also have a problem if an
half the items. One ejection can be chalked up to a bad night, repeated ejections or a an outright ban comes because you've started or participated in a fight, been obnoxious, belligerent are cause for concern.
** Habitually being rude, belligerent,
or verbally abusive, sexually harassed other abusive. This ties into the whole mean drunk thing. If drinking turns you into an abusive asshole, quit drinking.
** Sexually harassing
patrons or staff. Like the above, if drinking turns you into a disgusting lecherous creep, then stop drinking.
** Being obnoxious. Obviously, "obnoxious" is kind of a subjective definition, but if your behavior while drunk would irritate a reasonable person enough to get them to ask the bouncers to step in and the bouncers agreed that you were being annoying enough to warrant an ejection, you should at least THINK about drinking less if it takes a certain amount to get you to go from "fun" to "holy shit someone tell that jackass in the flannel shirt with the gauges to shut the fuck up".
** Starting or participating in fights. As anyone in nightlife can tell you, fights happen. There will be times where they may genuinely not be your fault - people do sometimes have to defend themselves against attacks from others or get dragged into brawls when they were trying to clear out. However, if you become aggressive when drunk and respond to things that sober people would see as minor annoyances by getting in the faces of others, inviting them out front or informing them that you'll be waiting outside, or taking swings at them, the bar
staff have every right to ban you for life and/or call the cops and you should absolutely view your first fight-related ban or been sitting arrest as a major wake-up call.
** Sitting
around all day being annoying irritating and disruptive.
** Not knowing
disruptive. Beyond the obvious message of "get a life", sitting on the same stool for most of the day and drunkenly attempting to make conversation pisses staff (who could be tending to less-irritating patrons who can actually be served, as you have likely long since reached the cutoff point) and patrons (who don't want to listen to your limits is another common reason for slurred, incoherent, and frankly asinine "wisdom") alike. As anyone who has worked in a ban. While it's generally not related to serious alcohol problems, regularly trying to match your friends shot-for-shot despite bar can tell you, being unable to and then getting obnoxious or abusive this kind of regular ''will'' eventually make you PersonaNonGrata when the bar staff get sick of having to deal with wear out your drunk ass.
welcome.
** If Not knowing your limits/ignoring them and attempting to match people who can outdrink you. Swallow your pride and accept that you're just not going to be able to down quite as many as your squad. Even if you don't have a drinking problem otherwise, it will piss your friends off when they have to carry you out or find their nights cut short leave with you yet AGAIN because you got the bar staff opted to kick the entire party ejected, you group out, and enough instances of this will get those same staff to say "you guys can be sure you've pissed off come in, but your friends.
** If a ban/an ejection isn't entirely related to drinking,
buddy is no longer welcome here" the next time that you might just be an asshole.try to have a night out with them if they don't opt to do it themselves.
30th Apr '16 7:55:40 PM RevolutionStone
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* ''Legal problems'' are another warning sign of alcohol abuse. Not legal problems so much as in "I carried my beer outside the bar and got a ticket" or "someone opened a container in my car" as those aren't necessarily related to your personal usage. If you get a DUI or drunk and disorderly conduct arrest, ''that'' is a major warning sign. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed.
* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem.

to:

* ''Legal problems'' are another warning sign of alcohol abuse. Not legal problems so much as in "I carried my beer outside the bar and got a ticket" or "someone opened a container in my car" as those aren't necessarily related to your personal usage. If you get a DUI or drunk and disorderly conduct arrest, ''that'' is a major warning sign. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed.\n
* If you find yourself getting 86'd[[note]]restaurant slang for being ejected as a consequence of bad behavior[[/note]] from establishments, chances are good that you have a problem. If you receive a ban from one, you ''definitely'' have a problem. While not necessarily a legal problem, it can easily turn into it if your behavior is bad enough to get the police called or result in charges being filed.
11th Apr '16 5:48:48 PM MarkVonLewis
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* ''Binge drinking'' is the consumption of five or more alcoholic beverages within a span of 24 hours, generally within the same drinking session (e.g. not four drinks over 10 hours, but four drinks in two hours). If one has binged more than once in a six-month period, this is generally a sign of ongoing alcohol abuse. If you find that you cannot stop drinking once you've started, that you consistently lose track of how much alcohol you've consumed after several drinks, or that your drinking sessions almost always end with you passing out (and occasionally stop short of that solely because ''you've consumed all the alcohol you could find''), you have almost certainly passed into alcoholism. When excessive drinking goes from being a desire to a compulsion, you have passed beyond the threshold.

to:

* ''Binge drinking'' is the consumption of five or more alcoholic beverages within a span of 24 hours, generally within the same drinking session (e.g. not four drinks over 10 hours, but four drinks in two hours). If one has binged more than once in a six-month period, this is generally a sign of ongoing alcohol abuse. If you find that you cannot stop drinking once you've started, that you consistently lose track of how much alcohol you've consumed after several drinks, or that your drinking sessions almost always end with you passing out (and occasionally stop short of that solely because ''you've consumed all the alcohol you could find''), you have almost certainly passed into alcoholism. When excessive drinking goes from being a desire to a compulsion, you have passed beyond the threshold.
28th Dec '15 9:20:49 AM MerryMikael
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''Alcohol abuse'' is simply the regular use of alcohol to a dangerous or unhealthy degree, the regular overuse of alcohol, and/or the use of alcohol to a degree that it creates dangerous or problematic behavior on a regular basis. Almost all alcoholics are alcohol abusers, but not everyone who abuses alcohol is or will become a true alcoholic.

to:

''Alcohol abuse'' is simply the regular use of alcohol to a dangerous or unhealthy degree, the regular overuse of alcohol, alcohol and/or the use of alcohol to a degree that it creates dangerous or problematic behavior on a regular basis. Almost all alcoholics are alcohol abusers, but not everyone who abuses alcohol is or will become a true alcoholic.



* ''Relational problems'' from the use of alcohol is a sign of alcohol abuse. If your use of alcohol causes you to get in fights, engage in violence, or be criticized for your drinking (and the people criticizing you are ''not'' TheFundamentalist), this is likely a warning sign that you need to monitor your alcohol usage. This goes double for people with unpleasant personality shifts after they imbibe: if people begin to empty out of a room when you start drinking or you are outright told that you are mean, vicious, and abusive when drunk, ''you should not drink''. Period. If you doubt that the person telling you this is being truthful, ask around. If the general consensus is that you're an asshole when you're drunk, it's a safe bet that you are a mean drunk. Failure to moderate your drinking in this case can cost you friendships and relationships, strain family relations, give you a reputation that makes you a pariah, and possibly even cost you a job if you get verbally abusive at an office party. This goes quadruple for people who become aggressive or violent when drunk: if you gain a HairTriggerTemper when you get loaded and fly off the handle at everything, you should consider not even being near alcohol, as the stakes are far higher here.

to:

* ''Relational problems'' from the use of alcohol is a sign of alcohol abuse. If your use of alcohol causes you to get in fights, engage in violence, or be criticized for your drinking (and the people criticizing you are ''not'' TheFundamentalist), this is likely a warning sign that you need to monitor your alcohol usage. This goes double for people with unpleasant personality shifts after they imbibe: if people begin to empty out of a room when you start drinking or you are outright told that you are mean, vicious, and abusive when drunk, ''you should not drink''. Period. If you doubt that the person telling you this is being truthful, ask around. If the general consensus is that you're an asshole when you're drunk, it's a safe bet that you are a mean drunk. Failure to moderate your drinking in this case can cost you friendships and relationships, strain family relations, give you a reputation that makes you a pariah, pariah and possibly even cost you a job if you get verbally abusive at an office party. This goes quadruple for people who become aggressive or violent when drunk: if you gain a HairTriggerTemper when you get loaded and fly off the handle at everything, you should consider not even being near alcohol, as the stakes are far higher here.



** You also have a problem if an ejection or a ban comes because you've started or participated in a fight, been obnoxious, belligerent or verbally abusive, sexually harassed other patrons or staff or been sitting around all day being annoying and disruptive. If it's not entirely related to drinking, you might just be an asshole.

to:

** You also have a problem if an ejection or a ban comes because you've started or participated in a fight, been obnoxious, belligerent or verbally abusive, sexually harassed other patrons or staff or been sitting around all day being annoying and disruptive. If it's not entirely related to drinking, you might just be an asshole.



** If a ban/an ejection isn't entirely related to drinking, you might just be an asshole.



''Alcoholism'' is even far more serious than alcohol abuse, which can become alcoholism and is always a part of it. The difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse is that alcoholism is a literal physical and emotional ''addiction'' to alcohol itself. Someone who is abusing alcohol but isn't addicted (yet) can, even if they drink problematically, manage their drinking. TheAlcoholic cannot, at least not without outside help and therapy in almost all cases.

to:

''Alcoholism'' is even far more serious than alcohol abuse, which abuse. Alcohol abuse can become alcoholism and is always a part of it. The difference between alcoholism and alcohol abuse is that alcoholism is a literal physical and emotional ''addiction'' to alcohol itself. Someone who is abusing alcohol but isn't addicted (yet) can, even if they drink problematically, manage their drinking. TheAlcoholic cannot, at least not without outside help and therapy in almost all cases.
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