History TabletopGame / OldWorldOfDarkness

16th Jun '16 4:42:13 PM CharlesPhipps
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** TabletopGame/ChicagoByNight
3rd Apr '16 10:04:42 AM Dee_Dee
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* DysfunctionJunction: AND HOW! ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', ''TabletopGame/MageTheAscension'', and ''TabletopGame/HunterTheReckoning'' all stand out as this.


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*WeAREStrugglingTogether: hoo boy.
4th Feb '16 2:10:23 AM sisima70
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*** The above is fixed in 20th anniversary edition of mage, where mages now need both life and matter to afflict vampires.

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*** The above is fixed in 20th anniversary edition of mage, where mages now need both life Life and matter Matter to afflict vampires.
4th Feb '16 2:09:51 AM sisima70
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**** This is fixed in 20th anniversary edition of mage, where mages now need both life and matter to afflict vampires.

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**** This *** The above is fixed in 20th anniversary edition of mage, where mages now need both life and matter to afflict vampires.
4th Feb '16 2:08:32 AM sisima70
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**** This is fixed in 20th anniversary edition of mage, where mages now need both life and matter to afflict vampires.
28th Oct '15 6:22:45 PM FordPrefect
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The Old setting had a grand overarching BackStory and an ongoing {{Metaplot}}, though the latter tended to Railroad games at times, if you wanted to follow it, of course. The new setting is much more modular; there's no {{metaplot}}, but there is a (mostly) unified cosmology. Some see the new setting as a RetCon of the old, to fix mistakes and imbalances; while no wholesale plot is lifted several themes, clans, institutions and other things are ported over. Many key themes and features of the old games were lost and in the case of Changeling the new game is entirely different from the old. The new games also are much more mutually compatible rules-wise, which is important for those who care about crossovers.

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The Old setting had a grand overarching BackStory and an ongoing {{Metaplot}}, though the latter tended to Railroad games at times, if you wanted to follow it, of course. The new setting is much more modular; there's no {{metaplot}}, but there is a (mostly) unified cosmology. Some see the new setting as a RetCon of the old, to fix mistakes and imbalances; while no wholesale plot is lifted lifted, several themes, clans, institutions and other things are ported over. Many key themes and features of the old games were lost and in the case of Changeling the new game is entirely different from the old. The new games also are much more mutually compatible rules-wise, which is important for those who care about crossovers.
21st May '15 6:27:19 PM DarkSoldier
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* TheCracker: Virtual Adepts.
* CrapsackWorld: The oppressive helplessness of the setting is what appeals to many. However, the old World of Darkness features some exceptions. There is ''Changeling: The Dreaming'', where the object is to prevent the world from ''becoming'' a CrapsackWorld. There is ''Mage: The Ascension'', where the characters strive to remake the world so that it ''stops'' being a CrapsackWorld. And while in ''Werewolf: The Apocalypse'' the titular Apocalypse is inevitable, you ''can'' win the Last Battle.
** Mummy: The Resurrection was primarily written as a direct subversion of this trend. The main tagline for the game is 'Where there is life, there is Hope', the [=NPCs=] are folks who lived crappy lives in the crappy world and returned with the mandate to change the world for the better, and the entire setting treats the idea of changing the world as something more than the seeming impossible.

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* TheCracker: Computer-savvy Nosferatu can become this. Virtual Adepts.
Adepts do this to ''reality itself''.
* CrapsackWorld: The oppressive helplessness of the setting is what appeals to many. However, the old World of Darkness features some exceptions. There is ''Changeling: The Dreaming'', where the object is to prevent the world from ''becoming'' a CrapsackWorld. There is ''Mage: The Ascension'', where the characters strive to remake the world so that it ''stops'' being a CrapsackWorld. And while in ''Werewolf: The Apocalypse'' the titular Apocalypse is inevitable, you ''can'' win the Last Battle.
** Mummy: The Resurrection was primarily written as a direct subversion of this trend. The main tagline for the game is 'Where "Where there is life, there is Hope', Hope," the [=NPCs=] are folks who lived crappy lives in the crappy world and returned with the mandate to change the world for the better, and the entire setting treats the idea of changing the world as something more than the seeming impossible.



** And when the second edition of ''Mage: The Ascension'' specifically mentioned in the Storyteller notes that CrapsackWorld needn't be the default, some players actually rebelled against it, claiming it was pandering to a more mainstream audience. And it probably wasn't merely one group, seeing that the third edition scrapped all the hopeful bits.

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** And when the second edition of ''Mage: The the Ascension'' specifically mentioned in the Storyteller notes that CrapsackWorld needn't be the default, some players actually rebelled against it, claiming it was pandering to a more mainstream audience. And it probably wasn't merely one group, seeing that the third edition scrapped all the hopeful bits.



* CrossoverCosmology: Each game line in the Old [=WoD=] had a long, intricate BackStory, which was notoriously full of (intentional, in all likelihood) internal inconsistencies, and an independent cosmology. Needless to say, they did not play well together. This was a reason for several {{Ret Con}}s and probably a contributing factor for [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt ending the world with a bang]] -- although, in some people's opinion, it was more of a whimper.
* CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass: Compared to the rest of the playable creatures in this setting, the Mages are this. They aren't immortal manipulators, they aren't unstoppable killing machines... but they ''are'' each a walking, talking RealityWarper and they know it. If the Mage is prepared, there is absolutely nothing any of the other creature types can do should he wish to twist them all like pretzels. (One page of the Mage core rulebook literally describes how easy it is for a Mage to turn a two thousand year old powerhouse vampire into a piece of lawn furniture... permanently...)

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* CrossoverCosmology: Each game line in the Old [=WoD=] had a long, intricate BackStory, which was notoriously full of (intentional, in all likelihood) internal inconsistencies, inconsistencies and an independent cosmology. Needless to say, they did not play well together. This was a reason for several {{Ret Con}}s and probably a contributing factor for [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt ending the world with a bang]] -- although, in some people's opinion, it was more of a whimper.
* CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass: Compared to the rest of the playable creatures in this setting, the Mages are this. They aren't immortal manipulators, they aren't manipulators or unstoppable killing machines... but they ''are'' each a walking, talking RealityWarper and they know it. If the Mage is prepared, there is absolutely nothing any of the other creature types can do should he wish to twist them all like pretzels. (One One page of the Mage core rulebook literally describes how easy it is for a Mage to turn a two thousand year old powerhouse vampire into a piece of lawn furniture... permanently...)furniture, permanently.



** Discussed often in ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'': A number of other vampires you meet are convinced that their condition really is a pretty sweet deal, what with having a good chance at an eternal or at least really long life of doing whatever the hell they want. A low humanity character in particular can cheerfully talk about they like their new power.

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** Discussed often in ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'': A number of other vampires you meet are convinced that their condition really is a pretty sweet deal, what with having a good chance at an eternal or at least really long life of doing whatever the hell they want. A low humanity Humanity character in particular can cheerfully talk about how they like their new power. power.



* TheDarkSide: Vampires in the old WOD were like this. PlayedForDrama as the degeneration carries nothing but severe penalties. Other beings in the old WOD had their own ways of falling to TheDarkSide - wraiths turn into spectres by giving in to their shadows (sentient embodiments of their negative emotions), mages can turn themselves into Nephandi by inverting their Avatars, werewolves can be turned against their will by forcing them into the Black Spiral Labyrinth, changelings who get particularly bent by Banality can become Dauntain, etc. ... And of course, there is good old getting drunk on power.

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* TheDarkSide: Vampires in the old WOD were like this. this, but PlayedForDrama as the degeneration carries nothing but severe penalties. Other beings in the old WOD had their own ways of falling to TheDarkSide - TheDarkSide: wraiths turn into spectres by giving in to their shadows (sentient embodiments of their negative emotions), mages can turn themselves into Nephandi by inverting their Avatars, werewolves can be turned against their will by forcing them into the Black Spiral Labyrinth, changelings who get particularly bent by Banality can become Dauntain, etc. ...etc. And of course, there is good old getting drunk on power.



* DemonicPossession: Used in the Old [=WOD=] in ''Demon: The Fallen'' as a means for them to come into existence and in ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'' by malevolent spirits.
* DependingOnTheWriter: Storytellers and writers generally painted the other types of supernaturals with different colors than their "home" books when they showed up in other continuities, especially in the Old World. ''Hunter: The Reckoning'' is a particularly sharp victim/benefactor of this, as many of their books encouraged [=STs=] to make sure that the players saw the hunted as monsters.
* {{Dhampyr}}: The dhampir and revenant.

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* DemonicPossession: Used in the Old [=WOD=] in ''Demon: The Fallen'' as a means for them to come into existence and Malevolent spirits in ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'' and the ''player characters'' in ''TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen''. The upside to being a Fallen in a mortal shell is that the shell can't be possessed by malevolent spirits.
something else.
* DependingOnTheWriter: Storytellers and writers generally painted the other types of supernaturals with different colors than their "home" books when they showed up in other continuities, especially in the Old World. ''Hunter: The the Reckoning'' is a particularly sharp victim/benefactor of this, as many of their books encouraged [=STs=] to make sure that the players saw the hunted as monsters.
* {{Dhampyr}}: Revenants and dhampir. The dhampir and revenant.former are families of ghouls serving their vampire masters, while the latter are natural children of thin-blooded vampires. Mechanically, they're nearly identical.



**** Given that one of the first books of the Revised line, Time of Thin Blood, was a crazy mega-crossover that culminated in one of the big bads of one game literally NUKING one of the big bads of another game, this argument is pretty much entirely invalid. White Wolf only trotted out the 'crossovers are optional' line when people pointed out how terrible the game mechanics were. Revised actually featured MORE crossovers than the 2E line did, what with ToTB, Blood Treachery, The Red Sign, etc...

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**** Given that one of the first books of the Revised line, Time ''Time of Thin Blood, Blood'', was a crazy mega-crossover that culminated in one of the big bads of one game literally NUKING one of the big bads of another game, this argument is pretty much entirely invalid. White Wolf only trotted out the 'crossovers "crossovers are optional' optional" line when people pointed out how terrible the game mechanics were. Revised actually featured MORE crossovers than the 2E line did, what with ToTB, Time of Thin Blood, Blood Treachery, The Red Sign, etc...



* EnemyWithin: All vampires suffer from The Beast, animalistic, id-like force with a hint of supernatural malice, that attempts to compel them into immediately satisfying their instinctive urges, such as craving for blood, fear of sunlight or anger at a slightest provocation, no matter the circumstances. The Shadow from ''Wraith: the Oblivion'', and the P'o from ''Kindred of the East'', fit this trope even better; in both cases, it is intelligent and consciously attempts to turn you to TheDarkSide. (In case it's not obvious, the Shadow and P'o are the same thing.)

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* EnemyWithin: All vampires suffer from The Beast, the animalistic, id-like force with a hint of supernatural malice, that attempts to compel them into immediately satisfying their instinctive urges, such as craving for blood, fear of sunlight sunlight, or anger at a slightest provocation, no matter the circumstances. The Shadow from ''Wraith: the Oblivion'', and the P'o from ''Kindred of the East'', fit this trope even better; in both cases, it is intelligent and consciously attempts to turn you to TheDarkSide. (In In case it's not obvious, the Shadow and P'o are the same thing.)



* EvilFeelsGood: Morality, in gamelines with KarmaMeter, is lost by not showing remorse for misdeeds. You also can lose it anyway, if the dice screw you.

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* EvilFeelsGood: Morality, in gamelines with a KarmaMeter, is lost by not showing remorse for misdeeds. You also can still lose it anyway, anyway if the dice screw you.



* EvilerThanThou: Default playable factions in both Worlds of Darkness tend to be morally dubious at best and outright evil at worst. Then there are guys like the Sabbat, the Technocracy and the Pure, who are firmly lodged in the "outright evil" camp, despite their rhetorics. But even they pale before the crazy, dog-raping, demon-worshiping, apocalypse-mongerers that usually serve as each game's ''worst'' faction.

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* EvilerThanThou: Default playable factions in both Worlds of Darkness tend to be morally dubious at best and outright evil at worst. Then there are guys like the Sabbat, the Technocracy and the Pure, who are firmly lodged in the "outright evil" camp, despite their rhetorics.rhetoric. But even they pale before the crazy, dog-raping, demon-worshiping, apocalypse-mongerers that usually serve as each game's ''worst'' faction.



* EvilutionaryBiologist: Pentex in Werewolf: The Apocalypse has the trappings of this trope, but is actually run by outright evil cultists. Developmental Neogenetics Amalgamated is a straight example. Progenitors and Etherites in Mage: The Ascension could be this.

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* EvilutionaryBiologist: Pentex in Werewolf: The Apocalypse ''Werewolf: the Apocalypse'' has the trappings of this trope, but is actually run by outright evil cultists. Developmental Neogenetics Amalgamated is a straight example. Progenitors and Etherites in Mage: The Ascension ''Mage: the Ascension'' could be this.



* FantasyKitchenSink: Each game line in the original was incredibly insular, Vampires could go centuries never meeting a werewolf.
** For a vampire, meeting a werewolf is the best way to NOT go any more centuries.
** AND vice versa.

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* FantasyKitchenSink: Each game line in the original was incredibly insular, Vampires insular; vampires could go centuries never meeting a werewolf.
** For
werewolf, though for a vampire, meeting a werewolf is the best good way to NOT go any more centuries.
** AND vice versa.
centuries.



*** A stronger case can be made for Wraiths as the fifth race, who were an incredibly common 'species', one of the five 'core' races introduced for the original gameline, and whose metaplot ending was used as the springboard for numerous later games- among them Hunter, Mummy, and Demon.

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*** A stronger case can be made for Wraiths as the fifth race, who were an incredibly common 'species', one of the five 'core' races introduced for the original gameline, and whose metaplot ending was used as the springboard for numerous later games- games, among them Hunter, Mummy, and Demon.



* {{Glamour}}: Many supernaturals can make themselves seem beautiful, trustworthy, desirable and invincible to onlookers.

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* {{Glamour}}: Many supernaturals can make themselves seem beautiful, trustworthy, desirable desirable, and invincible to onlookers.



* HalfHumanHybrid: Every game has at least one sub-class of mortals who have some of the parent supernaturals' strengths, but none of their weaknesses. It's worth noting that most of the following examples are not exlusive of each other or even the main supernaturals (Mages can be ghouls, Changelings can be Kinfolk, etc., though too much crossing over is frowned upon):

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* HalfHumanHybrid: Every game has at least one sub-class of mortals who have some of the parent supernaturals' strengths, but none of their weaknesses. It's worth noting that most of the following examples are not exlusive exclusive of each other or even the main supernaturals (Mages can be ghouls, Changelings can be Kinfolk, etc., though too much crossing over is frowned upon):



** Technically, all magic is a result of pure enlightened will, but the Order of Hermes explicitly advocates this (obviously) along with some of the sons of ether who've implanted themselves with their gadgets or quaffed some mutagens to gain "psychic powers" instead of more traditional paradigms.

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** Technically, all magic is a result of pure enlightened will, but the Order of Hermes explicitly advocates this (obviously) along with some of the sons Sons of ether Ether who've implanted themselves with their gadgets or quaffed some mutagens to gain "psychic powers" instead of more traditional paradigms.



* HorrorHunger: Vampires and blood
* HypnoticEyes: The vampire discipline of Dominate works entirely via eye contact.
** Unless you are allowed to use Dominate 6, then you can use Dominate Disciplines via touch. Granted you have to be 7th Gen to even do that.
** Eyes of the serpent allow you to hold a mortal, or kindred to a limited degree, in place. Also overlaps with SupernaturalGoldEyes.
* IKnowYourTrueName: One of the power branches in Mummy: The Resurrection is called "Nomenclature," where knowing anything's True Name (which requires varying amounts of time invested in study to learn - it's easier to learn the Names of simple things like plants and animals than, say, the Name for humans, which is even less complex than an individual human's personal True Name, and so on) allows for varying effects, culminating in (at the highest level) ''total erasure from existence.'' Of course, that last one automatically costs the Mummy a permanent dot on the KarmaMeter, no matter who you do it to.

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* HorrorHunger: Vampires and blood
need blood.
* HypnoticEyes: The vampire discipline of Dominate works entirely via eye contact.
** Unless you are allowed
contact until you're powerful enough to use Dominate 6, take the sixth rank, then you can use Dominate Disciplines via touch. Granted you have to be 7th Gen to even do that.
touch.
** Eyes of the serpent Serpent allow you to hold a mortal, or kindred to a limited degree, in place. Also overlaps with SupernaturalGoldEyes.
* IKnowYourTrueName: One of the power branches in Mummy: ''Mummy: The Resurrection Resurrection'' is called "Nomenclature," where knowing anything's True Name (which requires varying amounts of time invested in study to learn - it's easier to learn the Names of simple things like plants and animals than, say, the Name for humans, which is even less complex than an individual human's personal True Name, and so on) allows for varying effects, culminating in (at the highest level) ''total erasure from existence.'' Of course, that last one automatically costs the Mummy a permanent dot on the KarmaMeter, no matter who you do it to.



* IronicHell The Demon book "Days of Fire" had three different visions of the end of the world. In the first one every Clan, Tribe and Tradition gets a unique end; Ventrue's refined tastes become so refined that they can't feed off anyone, the Black Furies are enslaved and submit to men, the Cult of Ectasy reach their perfection only to realise how futile it all was, etc.

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* IronicHell IronicHell: The Demon book "Days of Fire" had three different visions of the end of the world. In the first one one, every Clan, Tribe Tribe, and Tradition gets a unique end; Ventrue's refined tastes become so refined that they can't feed off anyone, the Black Furies are enslaved and submit to men, the Cult of Ectasy reach their perfection only to realise how futile it all was, etc.
16th Apr '15 5:58:25 PM morenohijazo
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* WatchTheWorldDie: The line had a battery of books about how the world AscendedToAHigherPlaneofExistence/[[CosyCatastrophe concluded]] / [[EndoftheWorldasWeKnowIt ceased to exist]] / [[OmnicidalManiac got destroyed]].
** A scenario for ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' included a group of vampires hiding away from God's judgment to hold vigil and repent; even though the PlayerCharacters might not leave the church they are stuck in, the fates of vampires the world over were written with detail.
** A scenario for ''TabletopGame/MageTheAscension'' included an illustration where a [[OmnicidalManiac Nephandus]], in a form a mountain tall with [[GlowingEyesofDoom burning eyes]], is breathing atomic fire on cities. The [=PCs=] were welcome to survive long enough to see how the victorious Nephandi and their Malfean masters tore holes in Reality and raped it to death. Depressing as it is, the book for [=MtA=] included other scenarios where the player factions won and ended the world for a better, more comfortable age.
10th Apr '15 3:17:44 AM Spindriver
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* WainscotSociety: Multiple, intermittently interacting hidden factions of vampires, werewolves, wizards, faeries, etc. each have substantial, organized social systems of their own. Vampires have their {{Masquerade}}; other beings have less formal systems of secrecy.
20th Sep '14 4:58:33 PM MagBas
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A TabletopRPG set in a world much like our own, albeit darker. Shadows run deeper, mysteries exist in every corner, and [[HumansAreSpecial humanity]] [[SubvertedTrope is not quite the master of the world]] ''or'' its fate.

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A TabletopRPG set in a world much like our own, albeit darker. Shadows run deeper, mysteries exist in every corner, and [[HumansAreSpecial humanity]] [[SubvertedTrope humanity is not quite the master of the world]] world ''or'' its fate.
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