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* Describes the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", and why it's the result of self-bowdlerization or the nature of the work itself: '''(1/50) (2%)'''
* Describes the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", but pins the flaws on poor writing: '''(2/50) (4%)'''
* Describes the aesop and a relevant problem, but doesn't elaborate on the direct connection between the two: '''(3/50) (6%)'''
* Describes a problem, but doesn't sufficiently explain the intended aesop: '''(10/50) (20%)'''
* Out-of-narrative and meta complaints: '''(5/50) (10%)'''
* Justifying edits to discuss why it's not "clueless": '''(2/50) (4%)'''
* Narratively intentional (including In-universe discussion or spoofs): '''(4/50) (8%)'''
* ZCE (derisive complaining of an aesop devoid of further context): '''(14/50) (28%)'''
* ZCE (other aesops): '''(4/50) (8%)'''
* Unclassified Misuse/Other: '''(5/50) (10%)'''
* Describes the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", but pins the flaws on poor writing: '''(2/50) (4%)'''
* Describes the aesop and a relevant problem, but doesn't elaborate on the direct connection between the two: '''(3/50) (6%)'''
* Describes a problem, but doesn't sufficiently explain the intended aesop: '''(10/50) (20%)'''
* Out-of-narrative and meta complaints: '''(5/50) (10%)'''
* Justifying edits to discuss why it's not "clueless": '''(2/50) (4%)'''
* Narratively intentional (including In-universe discussion or spoofs): '''(4/50) (8%)'''
* ZCE (derisive complaining of an aesop devoid of further context): '''(14/50) (28%)'''
* ZCE (other aesops): '''(4/50) (8%)'''
* Unclassified Misuse/Other: '''(5/50) (10%)'''
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[[folder:Out-of-narrative and Meta meta complaints]]
[[folder:Justifying edits to discuss why it's not "clueless"]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
Changed line(s) 53,58 (click to see context) from:
[[folder:Justifying Edits to discuss why it's not "clueless"]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Straight-up Complaining about morals they don't like]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Straight-up Complaining about morals they don't like]]
to:
*
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Straight-up Complaining about morals they
* [[Film/OctoberBaby Film.October Baby]]: People who don't
* [[Film/ReeferMadness Film.Reefer Madness]]: The movie failed so ''badly'' at its [[AnAesop Aesop]] that it's used as a [[StrawmanPolitical strawman]] by people lobbying to legalize marijuana. Though then again, it might not have been the best idea to start the film by giving detailed instructions on how to make and even smuggle joints.
* [[Film/{{Sheena}} Film.Sheena]]: As Sheena says, "Guns are bad!"; they kill people after all. Bows and spears, on the other hand, are good because... they also kill people? '''Needs more context, otherwise in my opinion sounds more like a LostAesop.'''
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
* [[Series/NedsDeclassifiedSchoolSurvivalGuide Series.Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide]]: "Class Clowns"; while it is true that being amusing can lighten the tension in a school environment, the episode encourages the viewer to clown around even if it results in getting in trouble.
* [[TheLoudHouse/TropesCToD The Loud House.Tropes C to D]]: "Heavy Meddle": If a kid of the opposite sex is bullying you, that just means they like you, even if the abuse causes you constant physical pain and humiliation.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
* [[Series/NedsDeclassifiedSchoolSurvivalGuide Series.Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide]]: "Class Clowns"; while it is true that being amusing can lighten the tension in a school environment, the episode encourages the viewer to clown around even if it results in getting in trouble.
* [[TheLoudHouse/TropesCToD The Loud House.Tropes C to D]]: "Heavy Meddle": If a kid of the opposite sex is bullying you, that just means they like you, even if the abuse causes you constant physical pain and humiliation.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
Changed line(s) 64,67 (click to see context) from:
[[folder:ZCE (complaining about morals they don't like devoid of further explanation)]]
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.
to:
[[folder:ZCE (complaining about morals they don't like devoid of further explanation)]]
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.(other aesops)]]
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.
Deleted line(s) 69,74 (click to see context) :
* [[Film/OctoberBaby Film.October Baby]]: People who don't like their adoptive parents need to buck up and deal with it!
* [[Film/ReeferMadness Film.Reefer Madness]]: The movie failed so ''badly'' at its [[AnAesop Aesop]] that it's used as a [[StrawmanPolitical strawman]] by people lobbying to legalize marijuana. Though then again, it might not have been the best idea to start the film by giving detailed instructions on how to make and even smuggle joints.
* [[Film/{{Sheena}} Film.Sheena]]: As Sheena says, "Guns are bad!"; they kill people after all. Bows and spears, on the other hand, are good because... they also kill people? '''Needs more context, otherwise in my opinion sounds more like a LostAesop.'''
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
* [[Series/NedsDeclassifiedSchoolSurvivalGuide Series.Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide]]: "Class Clowns"; while it is true that being amusing can lighten the tension in a school environment, the episode encourages the viewer to clown around even if it results in getting in trouble.
* [[Film/ReeferMadness Film.Reefer Madness]]: The movie failed so ''badly'' at its [[AnAesop Aesop]] that it's used as a [[StrawmanPolitical strawman]] by people lobbying to legalize marijuana. Though then again, it might not have been the best idea to start the film by giving detailed instructions on how to make and even smuggle joints.
* [[Film/{{Sheena}} Film.Sheena]]: As Sheena says, "Guns are bad!"; they kill people after all. Bows and spears, on the other hand, are good because... they also kill people? '''Needs more context, otherwise in my opinion sounds more like a LostAesop.'''
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
* [[Series/NedsDeclassifiedSchoolSurvivalGuide Series.Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide]]: "Class Clowns"; while it is true that being amusing can lighten the tension in a school environment, the episode encourages the viewer to clown around even if it results in getting in trouble.
Deleted line(s) 78,81 (click to see context) :
* [[TheLoudHouse/TropesCToD The Loud House.Tropes C to D]]: "Heavy Meddle": If a kid of the opposite sex is bullying you, that just means they like you, even if the abuse causes you constant physical pain and humiliation.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 49 (click to see context) from:
* [[WebVideo/Vinesauce]]: "Anyway, don't give your ferrets crack..." Note that it's clueless in that Rev quite literally spouted it at random. '''Though bordering on being a ZCE.'''
to:
* [[WebVideo/Vinesauce]]: [[WebVideo/{{Vinesauce}}]]: "Anyway, don't give your ferrets crack..." Note that it's clueless in that Rev quite literally spouted it at random. '''Though bordering on being a ZCE.'''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* [[TheLegendOfKorra/TropesAToF The Legend Of Korra.Tropes A to F]]: Wan physically separated humans and spirits because the groups couldn't coexist. Then expresses how the humans had to learn to live with each other. Not only is this contradictory but we know that the groups will eventually divide themselves into the four nations. When one nation tries to subvert this order the world will be thrown into a century long war. '''What exactly about "humans and spirit should mix" and "humans should coexist among themselves" are mutually exclusive as morals that the wording of this entry implies they are? Also, the fact people dividing themselves just sounds like {{conflict}} that we as an audience aren't supposed to agree with relative to the moral but need to drive a plot along -- people forgot or ignored Wan's lesson? That sounds like the point.'''
* [[Series/PowerRangersSPD Series.Power Rangers S.P.D.]]: There was an anti-racism episode using discrimination against a RobotGirl as a metaphor. What's the problem? The fact that in the previous episode, she had done ''pretty much everything one possibly can'' to look suspicious, and put S.P.D. (and by extension, pretty much everything else) in serious danger by not telling anyone that it was her the bad guys wanted. So then we spend an episode where ''every single conversation or scene'' must have at least one line of {{Anvilicious}} hammering-in of the whole "We're racist bastards who distrusted her because she was a robot!" thing despite ''nothing of the sort'' having happened. '''Not only does this not clearly describe the anti-racism moral and how the allegory is displayed (as well as how it reeks of complaining), I'm not entirely sure the problem here is. If the narrative is supposed to be against discrimination and "racial" profiling, it sounds like the characters profiling the suspicious, but ultimately harmless robot and realizing they were in the wrong, thus learning their lesson, is EXACTLY what happened.'''
* [[VideoGame/ANewBeginning Video Game.A New Beginning]]: General issue with the game's environmental message seems to be convoluted as plot twists occur. A major one being whether the attempt to sabotage nuclear energy, and later stopping it, was an acutal critique nuclear energy or a random plot point. Furthermore, the actual issues—such as fossil fuel industries and corporate corruption—took a backseat as the story progresses despite being shown in the game. '''Unspecific about the intended moral, and then proceeds to complain about broader design issues a la TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot.'''
* [[VideoGame/ANewBeginning Video Game.A New Beginning]]: General issue with the game's environmental message seems to be convoluted as plot twists occur. A major one being whether the attempt to sabotage nuclear energy, and later stopping it, was an acutal critique nuclear energy or a random plot point. Furthermore, the actual issues—such as fossil fuel industries and corporate corruption—took a backseat as the story progresses despite being shown in the game. '''Unspecific about the intended moral, and then proceeds to complain about broader design issues a la TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot.'''
* [[WesternAnimation/BarbieVideoGameHero Western Animation.Barbie: Video Game Hero]]: The moral message of the movie is that you shouldn't let yourself feel confined to one path and think outside the box, and Barbie gains the means to basically code a whole new game from the inside, which leads her to victory. In real video games you do have to stay within the confines of whatever limits the programmers put in, and can't 'follow new paths' without cheating, glitching the game, or worse.
* [[Series/TheGoodies Series.The Goodies]]: Parodied in "Gender Education" with their Mary Whitehouse {{Expy}}-approved sex education film, which avoids any mention of anything related to sex:
-->'''Narrator:''' This is a man. And this isn't.
* [[WebVideo/Vinesauce]]: "Anyway, don't give your ferrets crack..." Note that it's clueless in that Rev quite literally spouted it at random. '''Though bordering on being a ZCE.'''
-->"[[LampshadeHanging ...where did that come from...]]"
-->'''Narrator:''' This is a man. And this isn't.
* [[WebVideo/Vinesauce]]: "Anyway, don't give your ferrets crack..." Note that it's clueless in that Rev quite literally spouted it at random. '''Though bordering on being a ZCE.'''
-->"[[LampshadeHanging ...where did that come from...]]"
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* [[Series/NedsDeclassifiedSchoolSurvivalGuide Series.Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide]]: "Class Clowns"; while it is true that being amusing can lighten the tension in a school environment, the episode encourages the viewer to clown around even if it results in getting in trouble.
* [[Series/PunkyBrewster Series.Punky Brewster]]: The Chicklets!
* [[Series/TheGoodDoctor Series.The Good Doctor]]: The episode "Influence", season 3 episode 14, tries to cover the issue of consent before for posting photos on social media, with an influencer asking Shaun about it, but doesn't tackle it well, because the genre's limitations prevent it from being explored fully. '''This almost fits in the correct criteria for the trope, but has the massive flaw of having no context as to what those genre limitations are and how it affected the delivery of the moral.'''
* [[Series/TodaysSpecial Series.Today's Special]]: [[http://todays-special.schuminweb.com/todays-special/episode-guide/1986/phils-visit.php "Phil's Visit,"]] mostly for the casting of Gerry Parkes (at the time, best known as the kindly [[Series/FraggleRock Doc]]), and also for... well, for being an episode of "Today's Special," a perfect example of a show that's in way over it's head. Quoth Jodie, "Funny thing is, one hour ago, we all thought [[HarsherInHindsight this was going to be one of the most exciting nights that we'd ever had in the store.]]"
* [[TheLoudHouse/TropesCToD The Loud House.Tropes C to D]]: "Heavy Meddle": If a kid of the opposite sex is bullying you, that just means they like you, even if the abuse causes you constant physical pain and humiliation.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
* [[Series/PunkyBrewster Series.Punky Brewster]]: The Chicklets!
* [[Series/TheGoodDoctor Series.The Good Doctor]]: The episode "Influence", season 3 episode 14, tries to cover the issue of consent before for posting photos on social media, with an influencer asking Shaun about it, but doesn't tackle it well, because the genre's limitations prevent it from being explored fully. '''This almost fits in the correct criteria for the trope, but has the massive flaw of having no context as to what those genre limitations are and how it affected the delivery of the moral.'''
* [[Series/TodaysSpecial Series.Today's Special]]: [[http://todays-special.schuminweb.com/todays-special/episode-guide/1986/phils-visit.php "Phil's Visit,"]] mostly for the casting of Gerry Parkes (at the time, best known as the kindly [[Series/FraggleRock Doc]]), and also for... well, for being an episode of "Today's Special," a perfect example of a show that's in way over it's head. Quoth Jodie, "Funny thing is, one hour ago, we all thought [[HarsherInHindsight this was going to be one of the most exciting nights that we'd ever had in the store.]]"
* [[TheLoudHouse/TropesCToD The Loud House.Tropes C to D]]: "Heavy Meddle": If a kid of the opposite sex is bullying you, that just means they like you, even if the abuse causes you constant physical pain and humiliation.
* [[VideoGame/MegaGirl Video Game.Mega Girl]]: While the game is intended to have a [[FeministFantasy pro-feminist]] theme, the abundance of [[FanService very attractive and statuesque]] Robot Mistresses sort of mitigates it. '''This one's just weird on top of having no context to prove its point.'''
* [[VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry Visual Novel.Higurashi: When They Cry]]: In Tsumihoroboshi, the moral can be seen as "Stick by your friends, even if they've brutally murdered some adults and are now attempting to blow up the school."
* [[WesternAnimation/MagicGiftOfTheSnowman Western Animation.Magic Gift of the Snowman]]: Oh boy. The special tries to teach kids that positive thinking and being happy will solve your problems away. While it's not a bad thing, pressuring this isn't going to make things better.
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* [[VideoGame/HouseOfTheDead Video Game.House of the Dead]]: "Remember, there's no such thing as a second chance". Also a BrokenAesop since this is said ''after'' Judgment's second chance, as well as HypocriticalHumor because of the fact that you can use continues. '''No context to prove it's even an "aesop" to begin with; it just sounds like a joke.'''
* [[WesternAnimation/JonnyQuestTheRealAdventures Western Animation.Jonny Quest: The Real Adventures]]: The ending of "Ndovu's Last Journey," wherein the Quests decide ''not'' to reveal the location of the elephant graveyard. Because clearly the most pressing problem is humanity's greed for ivory, not that living elephants are being hunted and slaughtered for it. This effectively makes them [[NiceJobBreakingItHero indirectly responsible]] for every elephant killed by poachers afterward. '''No context given on if there was an aesop against elephant hunting to begin with.'''
* [[WesternAnimation/JonnyQuestTheRealAdventures Western Animation.Jonny Quest: The Real Adventures]]: The ending of "Ndovu's Last Journey," wherein the Quests decide ''not'' to reveal the location of the elephant graveyard. Because clearly the most pressing problem is humanity's greed for ivory, not that living elephants are being hunted and slaughtered for it. This effectively makes them [[NiceJobBreakingItHero indirectly responsible]] for every elephant killed by poachers afterward. '''No context given on if there was an aesop against elephant hunting to begin with.'''
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[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", and why it's the result of self-bowdlerization or the nature of the work itself]]
* [[Recap/DoctorWhoS17E4NightmareOfEden Doctor Who S17 E4 "Nightmare of Eden"]]: This is a DrugsAreBad story about intergalactic drug smugglers. It started out quite reasonable and relevant (and in a show that had been and later continued to be quite good at dealing with serious political issues in an allegorical format) but all three series lead actors, especially Creator/LallaWard, were concerned that the script might glamourise drug use to young viewers. The FantasticDrug was renamed from the vaguely fun-sounding 'zip' to the nonsensical 'vrax', and everything about why anyone might want to take the drug was removed, with the result of turning vrax into something instantly addictive and invariably fatal that doesn't even make you very high.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", but pins the flaws on poor writing]]
* [[Animation/TheToyWarrior Animation.The Toy Warrior]]: The movie opens by stating that Jinoo has no friends because of the childish way he thinks of toys, and that he saved the day by simply being himself instead of wanting to be the Toy Warrior. The problem of not having friends is simply abandoned when the toys turned out to be magically alive and became real friends, even though he doesn't have healthy relationships in the real world; and the fact that he is himself doesn't really have much weight in the story beyond letting go of his fanaticism for the Toy Warrior. '''That very last tidbit seems like it needs more context to not sound like editorializing, but overall it gets the intended point across.'''
* [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 Comic Book.Civil War (2006)]]: The storyline featured the superheroes favoring registration fighting the superheroes opposing it. Apparently, the two sides were supposed to be presented evenly with Mark Millar string we're ultimately supposed to side with the Pro-reg side. But due to the clear Aesops of the last century saying that {{secret identit|y}}ies are ''good'' and government oversight of superheroes is ''evil'', so many writers disagreed the Pro-regs were oft depicted as a bunch of borderline fascists who mind-control or threaten heroes and villains into working for them and casually toss people into the Negative Zone for refusing to register. Some tie-in writers depicted the anti-regs as borderline terrorists who were putting everyone at risk while others portrayed them as being the heroes standing against a WellIntentionedExtremist tyranny. The one agreed on part is that the story couldn't seem to decide which side it was rooting for. '''This entry gets a bit too focused the behind-the-scenes conflict, but overall gets the point across that the morals of the story are very inconsistently handled.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop and a problem, but doesn't elaborate on the connection between the two]]
* [[AvatarTheLastAirbender/TropesAToH Avatar The Last Airbender.Tropes A-H]]: Through Toph, the show tries to present the Aesop that you shouldn't treat people as completely helpless just because they're disabled, as they may have other talents to compensate for their shortcomings. Of course, Toph's seismic sense are so overpowered that it basically makes up for her being blind most of the time, making it difficult to actually consider her "disabled" in the first place. '''This seems subjective based on whether or not it is "overpowered". If it otherwise proves to just be a talent to deal with her disability (which, this entry doesn't deny that Toph is in fact blind), it should align with how the moral is set up according to the rest of this text. If there is context to explain her accommodation putting her beyond merely compensating for her shortcomings into "overpowered" territory, it's not in this entry.'''
* [[Fanfic/ShowaAndVampire Fanfic.Showa & Vampire]]: A lot of times the story has your standard action anime moments where the heroes affirm their will to fight even when the odds seem unbeatable, or to do whatever it takes to protect their friends. This assumes ''Showa x Vampire'' is your typical shonen anime or toku hero series where they go on adventures and otherwise actively fight powerful evil that could destroy large parts of the world. That simply isn't the case, though: the only time the riders and their friends fight villains is if that villain comes to their school specifically to attack ''them.'' Late in the story's run it seriously became a OncePerEpisode thing for one of the heroes to ask why GIN-SHOCKER couldn't just go away and let them go to school like regular kids, and when they're finally spurred to action it's to save the kidnapped Shinichi and Yuji. The story ended before we could get any real sense that might finally change. '''I'm not sure why the setup of the work being unlike "your typical shounen anime or toku hero series" in any way invalidates the "do whatever it takes to protect your friends" moral. That seems easily transplantable among different settings.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Doesn't sufficiently explain the intended "aesop"]]
* [[FamilyGuy/TropesAToC Family Guy.Tropes A to C]]
** "Family Gay," which manages to be incredibly homophobic while supposedly promoting gay rights. In fact, almost every episode with gay rights as the topic, since every gay character is presented as a stereotype, and yet, the episode centers on how they're people too and deserve the same rights as straight people. '''This entry doesn't explain with context why that is the moral the episode wants to make.'''
** An episode meant as a vehicle for preaching the merits of legalizing marijuana ("Episode 420") is not the best place for constant stoner jokes. Especially bad after Brian's speech on how "productivity is skyrocketing and crime is miniscule" is right after a newscast in which the anchors were too stoned to even do their job and Peter was so stoned that, rather than set up a cutaway gag, he just gives off a list of celebrities he hates. '''This entry, meanwhile, doesn't explain why making stereotypical jokes actively makes the intended moral "clueless".'''
* [[Film/CyberSeductionHisSecretLife Film.Cyber Seduction: His Secret Life]]: Because of television content standards, the most the movie can actually show of Justin's internet pornography addiction is him blankly staring at [[FullyClothedNudity garden variety pictures of scantily-clad women]], rather than him actively touching himself to any form of hardcore pornography - or, heck, any ''nudity'' at all. This in turn undermines the film's message, since if something that mild is all it takes for him to spin out of control it becomes questionable whether he either has psychological problems already or if his mother's extreme overreaction had something to do with it. Some viewers have suggested that Justin's real addiction is late-night voyeurism mixed with throwing back energy drinks, the latter of which is enough to do a number on any growing adolescent's overall well-being. It veers into being an outright BrokenAesop as well because, save for those caused by his energy drink addiction (which he could have acquired through binging on them during ''any'' regular activity), none of the problems the film blames on his pornography addiction are even indirectly caused by it - if anything, most of his issues are because of Monica's [[DisproportionateRetribution violent offense]] at him turning down sex with her, which is only tangentially linked to his addiction because she produced and hosts a website with some of the porn he watched (and which, naturally, [[SkewedPriorities raises far-worse implications]] regarding ''her'' life that the film happily ignores). '''This entry derails and meanders into complaining about three separate issues without properly explaining in context what the film's message even ostensibly is to begin with.'''
* [[KingdomHearts/TropesAToD Kingdom Hearts.Tropes A to D]]: The series in general seems to be torn between two conflicting cultural beliefs. Namely, it tries to adhere to both a BlackAndWhiteMorality ''and'' a BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil. In this story, LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil as far as both aesthetics and characterization goes, but the lore professes that too much of either side (light included) is a bad thing. This confused narrative was inevitable, because the story itself is the brainchild of both a Western company built on children's cartoons heaped with strong Christian values, as well as an Eastern company whose stories typically carry a strong Buddhist bent. Thus, ''KH'' tries to be all over the map with its themes, which can be very confusing. '''The entry doesn't give a good contextual example for why these are the morals the series wants to preach and why they come into conflict, it instead feels the need to talk about real-world cultural differences.'''
* [[Literature/{{Gnomes}} Literature.Gnomes]]: While going for a GreenAesop by contrasting gnome society with human, the fact that gnomes are a SuperiorSpecies stacks the deck. Sure, you can be InHarmonyWithNature ... if you're born with immunity to most diseases, a magical ability to control your fertility and predict natural disasters, and fluency in animal languages, not to mention being so tiny that you can live in a house the size of a rabbit hole. '''Doesn't elaborate what the GreenAesop actually is.'''
* [[Music/{{Jewel}} Music.Jewel]]: She tried to make a political song with "America", but her label forced her to change some of the lyrics, which ended up muddling the message. '''No attempt to assess or explain the message she was intent on delivering to begin with.'''
--> ''We are getting tan in America\\
We love Spam in America\\
Polanski's banned from America''
* [[Recap/TeenTitansS1E4ForcesOfNature Recap.Teen Titans S1 E4: "Forces of Nature"]]: While Beast Boy's main problem in the episode is his refusal to apologize to Starfire when she accidentally falls afoul of his prank, it appears to rest on the secondary notion that Beast Boy pulling a prank at all is morally objectionable -- hence the MonsterOfTheAesop trope below. Unfortunately, the episode fails to realize that by rights this should also include ''Cyborg's'' prank, which results in the story directly comparing Beast Boy's attempt to nail Cyborg with a [[MundaneMadeAwesome glorified pie in the face]] to millions of dollars in wanton property destruction, while Cyborg's earlier prank, which resulted in long-term humiliation and mockery for Beast Boy, is by all appearances perfectly acceptable. The resulting moral appears to be something like "Pranks are bad if Beast Boy does them." '''This entry seems to be doing a lot of extrapolations for a moral that I'm not entirely convinced is there based on the setup -- Beast Boy's refusal to apologize doesn't read as the proper narrative throughline to cap off a moral of "don't pull pranks on people".'''
* [[Recap/TheSimpsonsS7E4BartSellsHisSoul Recap.The Simpsons S7 E4 "Bart Sells His Soul"]]: This is an incredibly ambiguous episode due to the fact that it refuses to make its point known. Sometimes, it’s a religious episode, while other times it's not. Sometimes the characters are depicted as TheWoobie while other times they are jerkasses. It doesn’t even say definitively whether or not the soul exists.
* [[Series/JoanOfArcadia Series.Joan of Arcadia]]: Some episodes didn't seem to have much of a clear reason why God had Joan do something. Like joining the cosmetology class. Sure, Glynis learns to be herself, and Joan's dad stops a criminal, but they both did that on their own, and Joan didn't have anything to do with them.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Out-of-narrative and Meta complaints]]
* [[Film/FreeWilly Film.Free Willy]]: The whole notion of freeing an animal who was forcefully taken out of his environment and separated from his family to live a life in captivity doesn't exactly work out too well when one remembers that this film was made possible by using an animal who actually ''was'' forcefully taken out of his environment and forced to live a life in captivity (although animatronics were used for scenes where Willy was actually in danger). Producers likely realised this as animatronic whales were used for the sequels. Also, releasing a captive animal to the wild is potentially dangerous because they haven't learned the necessary survival skills, and indeed, Willy's actor Keiko died several years after being released, never fully being free of human contact and assistance. While he could feed himself he always sought out humans and didn't join any nearby pods. The film does handwave this a bit early in the film when Rae says Willy was captured at "too old" of an age to be trained, implying he knows how to survive in the wild.
* [[Film/TheyLive Film.They Live!]]: The conspiracy is controlled entirely by [[ForeignRulingClass a foreign race]] masked as natives, which makes it easy to see the film's message as more xenophobic than anti-consumerist. Neo-Nazis have [[MisaimedFandom latched onto this as vindication of their beliefs]] as to who's to blame for American sociopolitical corruption, much to John Carpenter's chagrin. '''Focuses more on later MisaimedFandom despite it being a YMMV trope. Otherwise doesn't give enough explanation/context for why the moral itself is flawed or badly written.]]
* [[Literature/CliffordTheBigRedDog Literature.Clifford the Big Red Dog]]: A New Friend" introduces KC, a three-legged dog who Cleo fears at first but eventually grows to like. The intended Aesop was to be nice to disabled people, but a [[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233209546_Be_Kind_to_Three-Legged_Dogs_Children%27s_Literal_Interpretations_of_TV%27s_Moral_Lessons 2008 study]] found that Cleo's fear caused children to take the moral literally, saying that it was about being kind to three-legged dogs. On the contrary, an edited version where Cleo's fear was removed tested better with children, as they understood the moral. It's likely that the 11-minute runtime and usage of a dog in lieu of a disabled human made the execution wonky.
* [[Music/LadyGaga Music.Lady Gaga]]: Whatever your feelings on both Lady Gaga and Don't Ask Don't Tell, it's hard to take the "Alejandro" video and already-infamous VMA meat dress seriously as critiques of the policy, as Gaga insists they function. '''Borders on being a non-sequitur of a sentence; I have no context for how these elements could possibly be connected.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Narratively intentional (including In-universe discussion or spoofs)]]
* [[Blog/TheIslandOfMisfitChristmasSpecials Blog.The Island of Misfit Christmas Specials]]: Peter [[http://www.platypuscomix.net/darkvault/misfits/misfit32.html questions]] ''The Cabbage Patch Kids' First Christmas'' having a scene where the Kids sing that children shouldn't worry about their differences...to a girl who wears a leg brace, and presumably has mobility concerns that people shouldn't ignore.
* [[Literature/TheCanterburyTales Literature.The Canterbury Tales]]: An in-universe example. The incredibly greedy Pardoner gives a story teaching the evils of greed. [[LampshadeHanging He even mentions how ironic this is]]. '''This also doesn't read as "clueless", just ironic.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Justifying Edits to discuss why it's not "clueless"]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Straight-up Complaining about morals they don't like]]
* Film/SavingChristmas: '''The first bullet point in particular can only make the film's moral sound "clueless" by comparing it to that of other works rather than itself.'''
** Unlike most Christmas movies that say the rampant materialism is just an unfortunate side effect that sometimes overshadows the TrueMeaningOfChristmas (being selfless and celebrating your fellow man in the name of Jesus), [[InsaneTrollLogic this film says being as selfish and as materialistic as possible is the true meaning because buying things is somehow the same as accepting Jesus]].
** From the ([[BasedOnAGreatBigLie dubious]]) story of St. Nicholas and Arius: beating the holy hell out of someone is a reasonable resolution to a theological disagreement. Anything less is Political Correctness.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:ZCE (mostly complaining about morals they don't like devoid of further explanation)]]
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.
* [[Film/AnatomyOfHell Film.Anatomy of Hell]]: Apparently the moral of the story is that all men hate women, and that male homosexuality is an expression of this hate.
* [[Film/OctoberBaby Film.October Baby]]: People who don't like their adoptive parents need to buck up and deal with it!
* [[Film/ReeferMadness Film.Reefer Madness]]: The movie failed so ''badly'' at its [[AnAesop Aesop]] that it's used as a [[StrawmanPolitical strawman]] by people lobbying to legalize marijuana. Though then again, it might not have been the best idea to start the film by giving detailed instructions on how to make and even smuggle joints.
* [[Film/{{Sheena}} Film.Sheena]]: As Sheena says, "Guns are bad!"; they kill people after all. Bows and spears, on the other hand, are good because... they also kill people? '''Needs more context, otherwise in my opinion sounds more like a LostAesop.'''
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Unclassified Misuse/Other]]
* [[Film/ChristmasWithTheKranks Film.Christmas with the Kranks]]: Luther is a snobby jerk, but a jerk surrounded by lunatics who judge, pressure, and even extort him when the opportunity arises. This makes it very difficult to side against him, but his actions as things go on make it hard to root for him as well. '''There isn't even an attempt at explaining an aesop here, just complaining that characters are UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.'''
* [[Manga/KuroganePukapukaTai Manga.Kurogane Pukapuka Tai]]: The Holocaust is brought up in Chapter 10 but isn't treated with any sort of depth, being used more as a plot device than anything. Elsa's plotline does get a more serious treatment than most other characters though. '''No mentions of aesops or why they would be relevant.'''
* [[Series/BatesMotel Series.BatesMotel]]: After Norman gets taken into a mental hospital, Norma asks others how she should take in the situation. Emma advises her to ''forget her son and focus on herself since Norman should grow up on his own''. So apparently, Norma should have fun with her own life over worrying about her own son's mental health. '''This reads as just a character asking another character for advice, not a moral lesson one should impart to the viewer.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", and why it's the result of self-bowdlerization or the nature of the work itself]]
* [[Recap/DoctorWhoS17E4NightmareOfEden Doctor Who S17 E4 "Nightmare of Eden"]]: This is a DrugsAreBad story about intergalactic drug smugglers. It started out quite reasonable and relevant (and in a show that had been and later continued to be quite good at dealing with serious political issues in an allegorical format) but all three series lead actors, especially Creator/LallaWard, were concerned that the script might glamourise drug use to young viewers. The FantasticDrug was renamed from the vaguely fun-sounding 'zip' to the nonsensical 'vrax', and everything about why anyone might want to take the drug was removed, with the result of turning vrax into something instantly addictive and invariably fatal that doesn't even make you very high.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop, explains why it's "clueless", but pins the flaws on poor writing]]
* [[Animation/TheToyWarrior Animation.The Toy Warrior]]: The movie opens by stating that Jinoo has no friends because of the childish way he thinks of toys, and that he saved the day by simply being himself instead of wanting to be the Toy Warrior. The problem of not having friends is simply abandoned when the toys turned out to be magically alive and became real friends, even though he doesn't have healthy relationships in the real world; and the fact that he is himself doesn't really have much weight in the story beyond letting go of his fanaticism for the Toy Warrior. '''That very last tidbit seems like it needs more context to not sound like editorializing, but overall it gets the intended point across.'''
* [[ComicBook/CivilWar2006 Comic Book.Civil War (2006)]]: The storyline featured the superheroes favoring registration fighting the superheroes opposing it. Apparently, the two sides were supposed to be presented evenly with Mark Millar string we're ultimately supposed to side with the Pro-reg side. But due to the clear Aesops of the last century saying that {{secret identit|y}}ies are ''good'' and government oversight of superheroes is ''evil'', so many writers disagreed the Pro-regs were oft depicted as a bunch of borderline fascists who mind-control or threaten heroes and villains into working for them and casually toss people into the Negative Zone for refusing to register. Some tie-in writers depicted the anti-regs as borderline terrorists who were putting everyone at risk while others portrayed them as being the heroes standing against a WellIntentionedExtremist tyranny. The one agreed on part is that the story couldn't seem to decide which side it was rooting for. '''This entry gets a bit too focused the behind-the-scenes conflict, but overall gets the point across that the morals of the story are very inconsistently handled.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explains the aesop and a problem, but doesn't elaborate on the connection between the two]]
* [[AvatarTheLastAirbender/TropesAToH Avatar The Last Airbender.Tropes A-H]]: Through Toph, the show tries to present the Aesop that you shouldn't treat people as completely helpless just because they're disabled, as they may have other talents to compensate for their shortcomings. Of course, Toph's seismic sense are so overpowered that it basically makes up for her being blind most of the time, making it difficult to actually consider her "disabled" in the first place. '''This seems subjective based on whether or not it is "overpowered". If it otherwise proves to just be a talent to deal with her disability (which, this entry doesn't deny that Toph is in fact blind), it should align with how the moral is set up according to the rest of this text. If there is context to explain her accommodation putting her beyond merely compensating for her shortcomings into "overpowered" territory, it's not in this entry.'''
* [[Fanfic/ShowaAndVampire Fanfic.Showa & Vampire]]: A lot of times the story has your standard action anime moments where the heroes affirm their will to fight even when the odds seem unbeatable, or to do whatever it takes to protect their friends. This assumes ''Showa x Vampire'' is your typical shonen anime or toku hero series where they go on adventures and otherwise actively fight powerful evil that could destroy large parts of the world. That simply isn't the case, though: the only time the riders and their friends fight villains is if that villain comes to their school specifically to attack ''them.'' Late in the story's run it seriously became a OncePerEpisode thing for one of the heroes to ask why GIN-SHOCKER couldn't just go away and let them go to school like regular kids, and when they're finally spurred to action it's to save the kidnapped Shinichi and Yuji. The story ended before we could get any real sense that might finally change. '''I'm not sure why the setup of the work being unlike "your typical shounen anime or toku hero series" in any way invalidates the "do whatever it takes to protect your friends" moral. That seems easily transplantable among different settings.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Doesn't sufficiently explain the intended "aesop"]]
* [[FamilyGuy/TropesAToC Family Guy.Tropes A to C]]
** "Family Gay," which manages to be incredibly homophobic while supposedly promoting gay rights. In fact, almost every episode with gay rights as the topic, since every gay character is presented as a stereotype, and yet, the episode centers on how they're people too and deserve the same rights as straight people. '''This entry doesn't explain with context why that is the moral the episode wants to make.'''
** An episode meant as a vehicle for preaching the merits of legalizing marijuana ("Episode 420") is not the best place for constant stoner jokes. Especially bad after Brian's speech on how "productivity is skyrocketing and crime is miniscule" is right after a newscast in which the anchors were too stoned to even do their job and Peter was so stoned that, rather than set up a cutaway gag, he just gives off a list of celebrities he hates. '''This entry, meanwhile, doesn't explain why making stereotypical jokes actively makes the intended moral "clueless".'''
* [[Film/CyberSeductionHisSecretLife Film.Cyber Seduction: His Secret Life]]: Because of television content standards, the most the movie can actually show of Justin's internet pornography addiction is him blankly staring at [[FullyClothedNudity garden variety pictures of scantily-clad women]], rather than him actively touching himself to any form of hardcore pornography - or, heck, any ''nudity'' at all. This in turn undermines the film's message, since if something that mild is all it takes for him to spin out of control it becomes questionable whether he either has psychological problems already or if his mother's extreme overreaction had something to do with it. Some viewers have suggested that Justin's real addiction is late-night voyeurism mixed with throwing back energy drinks, the latter of which is enough to do a number on any growing adolescent's overall well-being. It veers into being an outright BrokenAesop as well because, save for those caused by his energy drink addiction (which he could have acquired through binging on them during ''any'' regular activity), none of the problems the film blames on his pornography addiction are even indirectly caused by it - if anything, most of his issues are because of Monica's [[DisproportionateRetribution violent offense]] at him turning down sex with her, which is only tangentially linked to his addiction because she produced and hosts a website with some of the porn he watched (and which, naturally, [[SkewedPriorities raises far-worse implications]] regarding ''her'' life that the film happily ignores). '''This entry derails and meanders into complaining about three separate issues without properly explaining in context what the film's message even ostensibly is to begin with.'''
* [[KingdomHearts/TropesAToD Kingdom Hearts.Tropes A to D]]: The series in general seems to be torn between two conflicting cultural beliefs. Namely, it tries to adhere to both a BlackAndWhiteMorality ''and'' a BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil. In this story, LightIsGood and DarkIsEvil as far as both aesthetics and characterization goes, but the lore professes that too much of either side (light included) is a bad thing. This confused narrative was inevitable, because the story itself is the brainchild of both a Western company built on children's cartoons heaped with strong Christian values, as well as an Eastern company whose stories typically carry a strong Buddhist bent. Thus, ''KH'' tries to be all over the map with its themes, which can be very confusing. '''The entry doesn't give a good contextual example for why these are the morals the series wants to preach and why they come into conflict, it instead feels the need to talk about real-world cultural differences.'''
* [[Literature/{{Gnomes}} Literature.Gnomes]]: While going for a GreenAesop by contrasting gnome society with human, the fact that gnomes are a SuperiorSpecies stacks the deck. Sure, you can be InHarmonyWithNature ... if you're born with immunity to most diseases, a magical ability to control your fertility and predict natural disasters, and fluency in animal languages, not to mention being so tiny that you can live in a house the size of a rabbit hole. '''Doesn't elaborate what the GreenAesop actually is.'''
* [[Music/{{Jewel}} Music.Jewel]]: She tried to make a political song with "America", but her label forced her to change some of the lyrics, which ended up muddling the message. '''No attempt to assess or explain the message she was intent on delivering to begin with.'''
--> ''We are getting tan in America\\
We love Spam in America\\
Polanski's banned from America''
* [[Recap/TeenTitansS1E4ForcesOfNature Recap.Teen Titans S1 E4: "Forces of Nature"]]: While Beast Boy's main problem in the episode is his refusal to apologize to Starfire when she accidentally falls afoul of his prank, it appears to rest on the secondary notion that Beast Boy pulling a prank at all is morally objectionable -- hence the MonsterOfTheAesop trope below. Unfortunately, the episode fails to realize that by rights this should also include ''Cyborg's'' prank, which results in the story directly comparing Beast Boy's attempt to nail Cyborg with a [[MundaneMadeAwesome glorified pie in the face]] to millions of dollars in wanton property destruction, while Cyborg's earlier prank, which resulted in long-term humiliation and mockery for Beast Boy, is by all appearances perfectly acceptable. The resulting moral appears to be something like "Pranks are bad if Beast Boy does them." '''This entry seems to be doing a lot of extrapolations for a moral that I'm not entirely convinced is there based on the setup -- Beast Boy's refusal to apologize doesn't read as the proper narrative throughline to cap off a moral of "don't pull pranks on people".'''
* [[Recap/TheSimpsonsS7E4BartSellsHisSoul Recap.The Simpsons S7 E4 "Bart Sells His Soul"]]: This is an incredibly ambiguous episode due to the fact that it refuses to make its point known. Sometimes, it’s a religious episode, while other times it's not. Sometimes the characters are depicted as TheWoobie while other times they are jerkasses. It doesn’t even say definitively whether or not the soul exists.
* [[Series/JoanOfArcadia Series.Joan of Arcadia]]: Some episodes didn't seem to have much of a clear reason why God had Joan do something. Like joining the cosmetology class. Sure, Glynis learns to be herself, and Joan's dad stops a criminal, but they both did that on their own, and Joan didn't have anything to do with them.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Out-of-narrative and Meta complaints]]
* [[Film/FreeWilly Film.Free Willy]]: The whole notion of freeing an animal who was forcefully taken out of his environment and separated from his family to live a life in captivity doesn't exactly work out too well when one remembers that this film was made possible by using an animal who actually ''was'' forcefully taken out of his environment and forced to live a life in captivity (although animatronics were used for scenes where Willy was actually in danger). Producers likely realised this as animatronic whales were used for the sequels. Also, releasing a captive animal to the wild is potentially dangerous because they haven't learned the necessary survival skills, and indeed, Willy's actor Keiko died several years after being released, never fully being free of human contact and assistance. While he could feed himself he always sought out humans and didn't join any nearby pods. The film does handwave this a bit early in the film when Rae says Willy was captured at "too old" of an age to be trained, implying he knows how to survive in the wild.
* [[Film/TheyLive Film.They Live!]]: The conspiracy is controlled entirely by [[ForeignRulingClass a foreign race]] masked as natives, which makes it easy to see the film's message as more xenophobic than anti-consumerist. Neo-Nazis have [[MisaimedFandom latched onto this as vindication of their beliefs]] as to who's to blame for American sociopolitical corruption, much to John Carpenter's chagrin. '''Focuses more on later MisaimedFandom despite it being a YMMV trope. Otherwise doesn't give enough explanation/context for why the moral itself is flawed or badly written.]]
* [[Literature/CliffordTheBigRedDog Literature.Clifford the Big Red Dog]]: A New Friend" introduces KC, a three-legged dog who Cleo fears at first but eventually grows to like. The intended Aesop was to be nice to disabled people, but a [[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233209546_Be_Kind_to_Three-Legged_Dogs_Children%27s_Literal_Interpretations_of_TV%27s_Moral_Lessons 2008 study]] found that Cleo's fear caused children to take the moral literally, saying that it was about being kind to three-legged dogs. On the contrary, an edited version where Cleo's fear was removed tested better with children, as they understood the moral. It's likely that the 11-minute runtime and usage of a dog in lieu of a disabled human made the execution wonky.
* [[Music/LadyGaga Music.Lady Gaga]]: Whatever your feelings on both Lady Gaga and Don't Ask Don't Tell, it's hard to take the "Alejandro" video and already-infamous VMA meat dress seriously as critiques of the policy, as Gaga insists they function. '''Borders on being a non-sequitur of a sentence; I have no context for how these elements could possibly be connected.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Narratively intentional (including In-universe discussion or spoofs)]]
* [[Blog/TheIslandOfMisfitChristmasSpecials Blog.The Island of Misfit Christmas Specials]]: Peter [[http://www.platypuscomix.net/darkvault/misfits/misfit32.html questions]] ''The Cabbage Patch Kids' First Christmas'' having a scene where the Kids sing that children shouldn't worry about their differences...to a girl who wears a leg brace, and presumably has mobility concerns that people shouldn't ignore.
* [[Literature/TheCanterburyTales Literature.The Canterbury Tales]]: An in-universe example. The incredibly greedy Pardoner gives a story teaching the evils of greed. [[LampshadeHanging He even mentions how ironic this is]]. '''This also doesn't read as "clueless", just ironic.'''
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Justifying Edits to discuss why it's not "clueless"]]
* [[Recap/SouthParkS19E5SafeSpace Recap.South Park S 19 E 5 Safe Space]]: Is the episode shaming people for wanting a break from negativity? Or is the lesson is that you should be careful about what you post online because you may ''invite'' negativity with what you post? The theme of the episode is that PC Principal tries fighting cyberbullying by making Butters filter out any negative comments. It escalates from Cartman to all sorts of celebrities who are too egotistical to take criticism or too thin-skinned to handle a bad comment they can just remove themselves. On one hand, people like Cartman should be more self-conscious about what they post and should just disable comment sections than just filter the good comments from the bad ones. On the other hand, safe spaces can be a relief to some people if they are in unfavorable positions on the internet. The lesson could also be about moderation; safe spaces can be healthy but you shouldn't use them as an excuse to abuse others or feed your own ego by avoiding constructive criticism. '''This entry was really hard to categorize, but I settled on this because I believe it's ultimately trying to argue on an intended aesop despite the entry itself being unsure.'''
* [[Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS1E10SwarmOfTheCentury My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S1 E10 "Swarm of the Century"]]: Probably not entirely clueless, but as more than one viewer has noted, the aesop of this episode, if taken as the face value "you should listen to what your friends have to say instead of dismissing them", almost falls flat when one remembers that Pinkie Pie hardly ever actually tried explaining that she knows what parasprites are and how to get rid of them, giving up after one attempted explanation. In particular, Twilight specifically ''asks'' Pinkie if she knows anything about the Parasprites, only for Pinkie to mutter that she needs a trombone and leave without explanation. Considering all things, of course, this could more or less lead to a DoubleAesop, as Pinkie pointing out at the end how she tried to tell them when they wouldn't listen makes it evident that she did learn the importance of explaining herself properly.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Straight-up Complaining about morals they don't like]]
* Film/SavingChristmas: '''The first bullet point in particular can only make the film's moral sound "clueless" by comparing it to that of other works rather than itself.'''
** Unlike most Christmas movies that say the rampant materialism is just an unfortunate side effect that sometimes overshadows the TrueMeaningOfChristmas (being selfless and celebrating your fellow man in the name of Jesus), [[InsaneTrollLogic this film says being as selfish and as materialistic as possible is the true meaning because buying things is somehow the same as accepting Jesus]].
** From the ([[BasedOnAGreatBigLie dubious]]) story of St. Nicholas and Arius: beating the holy hell out of someone is a reasonable resolution to a theological disagreement. Anything less is Political Correctness.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:ZCE (mostly complaining about morals they don't like devoid of further explanation)]]
* [[Anime/BlueSubmarineNo6 Anime.Blue Submarine No. 6]]: Something about a cycle of revenge when the enemy really is AlwaysChaoticEvil (good or at least nice members are killed), are killing the remains of humanity, and is enjoying it greatly.
* [[Creator/DakariKingMykan Creator.Dakari-King Mykan]]: The fics ''try'' to teach lessons, in the loosest sense of the word, but he constantly contradicts his own Aesop time and time again.
* [[Fanfic/DarkSecrets Fanfic.Dark Secrets]]: The fic tries to tackle weighty issues like rape, abuse and suicide, but the writing is nowhere near up to it.
* [[Film/AnatomyOfHell Film.Anatomy of Hell]]: Apparently the moral of the story is that all men hate women, and that male homosexuality is an expression of this hate.
* [[Film/OctoberBaby Film.October Baby]]: People who don't like their adoptive parents need to buck up and deal with it!
* [[Film/ReeferMadness Film.Reefer Madness]]: The movie failed so ''badly'' at its [[AnAesop Aesop]] that it's used as a [[StrawmanPolitical strawman]] by people lobbying to legalize marijuana. Though then again, it might not have been the best idea to start the film by giving detailed instructions on how to make and even smuggle joints.
* [[Film/{{Sheena}} Film.Sheena]]: As Sheena says, "Guns are bad!"; they kill people after all. Bows and spears, on the other hand, are good because... they also kill people? '''Needs more context, otherwise in my opinion sounds more like a LostAesop.'''
* [[Recap/GravityFallsS2E9TheLoveGod Recap / Gravity Falls S2 E9 "The Love God"]] Thompson: It's better to constantly demean yourself to have friends who constantly laugh at your humiliation and discomfort than to not have friends at all, nor even to hold out for friends who'll treat you better. (Considering how many other kid's media argues against this same message...)
* [[Recap/LazyTownS1E30RobbiesGreatestMisses Recap.Lazy Town S 1 E 30 Robbies Greatest Misses]]: Always believe your friends and apologize for doubting them, even if they do have a bad habit of crying wolf.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Unclassified Misuse/Other]]
* [[Film/ChristmasWithTheKranks Film.Christmas with the Kranks]]: Luther is a snobby jerk, but a jerk surrounded by lunatics who judge, pressure, and even extort him when the opportunity arises. This makes it very difficult to side against him, but his actions as things go on make it hard to root for him as well. '''There isn't even an attempt at explaining an aesop here, just complaining that characters are UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.'''
* [[Manga/KuroganePukapukaTai Manga.Kurogane Pukapuka Tai]]: The Holocaust is brought up in Chapter 10 but isn't treated with any sort of depth, being used more as a plot device than anything. Elsa's plotline does get a more serious treatment than most other characters though. '''No mentions of aesops or why they would be relevant.'''
* [[Series/BatesMotel Series.BatesMotel]]: After Norman gets taken into a mental hospital, Norma asks others how she should take in the situation. Emma advises her to ''forget her son and focus on herself since Norman should grow up on his own''. So apparently, Norma should have fun with her own life over worrying about her own son's mental health. '''This reads as just a character asking another character for advice, not a moral lesson one should impart to the viewer.'''
[[/folder]]
