History Main / ThePeterPrinciple

20th Jun '17 12:28:04 PM DVB
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* Team Dai-Gurren in ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann''. Fighting an action filled, explosion riddled resistance? Easily done. Slowing down after the fighting and running the government you're in charge of? No thanks. Most of them are aware of this and the fighters struggle to deal with their new jobs while the support team has it easier. Simon is on top, but Rossieu does most of the work as his second-in-command. [[spoiler: After Simon's wedding with Nia and her death seconds after, he leaves Rossieu in charge and Lagann to Darry]].

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* Team Dai-Gurren in ''Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann''. Fighting an action filled, explosion riddled resistance? Easily done. Slowing down after the fighting and running the government you're in charge of? No thanks. Most of them are aware of this and the fighters struggle to deal with their new jobs while the support team has it easier. Simon is on top, but Rossieu does most of the work as his second-in-command. [[spoiler: After Simon's wedding with Nia and her death seconds after, he leaves Rossieu in charge and Gurren Lagann to Darry]].the twins]].
19th May '17 10:24:07 PM Kazmahu
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* This is the reason given, via AllThereInTheManual, for why ''VideoGame/DawnOfWar'''s Indrick Boreale was such a raging GeneralFailure. He was one of the ''Literature/BloodRavens'' chapter's greatest scout snipers, but his achievements lead to him being promoted far above his level of competence, culminating in him being given the unenviable task of trying to subjugate an entire solar system overrun with over a half dozen different enemy factions, with predictable results.

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* This is the reason given, via AllThereInTheManual, for why ''VideoGame/DawnOfWar'''s Indrick Boreale was such a raging GeneralFailure. He was one of the ''Literature/BloodRavens'' chapter's greatest scout snipers, but his achievements lead to him being promoted far above his level of competence, culminating in him being given the unenviable task of trying to subjugate an entire solar system overrun with over a half dozen different enemy factions, with predictable results. Cyrus in the sequel is a deliberate defiance of the trope both in- and out-of-universe, being a scout sniper revered for his competence who [[AlmightyJanitor refuses to be promoted past Training Sergent]] because he feels his skills are best suited to that position.
4th May '17 2:22:42 AM morane
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* Avoiding this trope in real life is one of the primary reasons many modern militaries discharge or retire members who go more than a certain length of time without being promoted. The idea is to make room for younger, and potentially more talented, members to be promoted to those positions.
** One of the challenges is that different ranks require different skills. Those in higher positions, by necessity, need to become bureaucrats and administrators, for example. For this reason, YMMV in terms of how much Peter Principle applies to specific individuals. Erwin Rommel, for example, was an outstanding tactician and was quite indisputably in the top twenty tacticians in the entire German Army. However, his failings as a logistician and administrator resulted in questionable performance as a Corps and Army commander (in North Africa) and poor performance as an Army Group commander (in France).
** This is one of the purposes of the Warrant Officer corps. Warrant officers are officers in the traditional sense, but are usually (almost exclusively) recruited up from the NCO ranks. However, where Commissioned Officers are trained to lead successively larger numbers of troops and everything that entails, Warrant Officers are technical specialists, who continue to hone and use the technical skills they received as Enlisted personnel. Most NCO's are trained to lead troops with their Commissioned Officers, other Enlisted gain technical skills the military don't want wasted...therefore they have a separate track for them to continue to use the valuable skills the organization needs...rather than waste them on trying to lead troops, for which they are not really trained.



** Avoiding this trope in real life is one of the primary reasons many modern militaries discharge or retire members who go more than a certain length of time without being promoted. The idea is to make room for younger, and potentially more talented, members to be promoted to those positions.
*** One of the challenges is that different ranks require different skills. Those in higher positions, by necessity, need to become bureaucrats and administrators, for example. For this reason, YMMV in terms of how much Peter Principle applies to specific individuals. Erwin Rommel, for example, was an outstanding tactician and was quite indisputably in the top twenty tacticians in the entire German Army. However, his failings as a logistician and administrator resulted in questionable performance as a Corps and Army commander (in North Africa) and poor performance as an Army Group commander (in France).
*** This is one of the purposes of the Warrant Officer corps. Warrant officers are officers in the traditional sense, but are usually (almost exclusively) recruited up from the NCO ranks. However, where Commissioned Officers are trained to lead successively larger numbers of troops and everything that entails, Warrant Officers are technical specialists, who continue to hone and use the technical skills they received as Enlisted personnel. Most NCO's are trained to lead troops with their Commissioned Officers, other Enlisted gain technical skills the military don't want wasted...therefore they have a separate track for them to continue to use the valuable skills the organization needs...rather than waste them on trying to lead troops, for which they are not really trained.
* Hermann Göring. A 22-victory AcePilot and winner of ''Pour le Merite'' (the coveted ''Blue Max''), he commanded ''Jasta 11'' after Manfred von Richthofen's death in 1918 and ''Jagdgeschwader I'' (of which ''Jasta 11'' was a part) until the end of WWI. He was recognized as a dashing pilot and an able wing commander: he found his level of incompetence in WWII as ''Generalfeldmarschall'' and commander of the Luftwaffe. He promised more than Luftwaffe was able to provide, and his pomposity and leadership style was simply not suitable for such position.

to:

** Avoiding this trope in real life is one of the primary reasons many modern militaries discharge or retire members who go more than a certain length of time without being promoted. The idea is to make room for younger, and potentially more talented, members to be promoted to those positions.
*** One of the challenges is that different ranks require different skills. Those in higher positions, by necessity, need to become bureaucrats and administrators, for example. For this reason, YMMV in terms of how much Peter Principle applies to specific individuals. Erwin Rommel, for example, was an outstanding tactician and was quite indisputably in the top twenty tacticians in the entire German Army. However, his failings as a logistician and administrator resulted in questionable performance as a Corps and Army commander (in North Africa) and poor performance as an Army Group commander (in France).
*** This is one of the purposes of the Warrant Officer corps. Warrant officers are officers in the traditional sense, but are usually (almost exclusively) recruited up from the NCO ranks. However, where Commissioned Officers are trained to lead successively larger numbers of troops and everything that entails, Warrant Officers are technical specialists, who continue to hone and use the technical skills they received as Enlisted personnel. Most NCO's are trained to lead troops with their Commissioned Officers, other Enlisted gain technical skills the military don't want wasted...therefore they have a separate track for them to continue to use the valuable skills the organization needs...rather than waste them on trying to lead troops, for which they are not really trained.
* another RealLife example: Hermann Göring. A 22-victory AcePilot and winner of ''Pour le Merite'' (the coveted ''Blue Max''), he commanded ''Jasta 11'' after Manfred von Richthofen's death in 1918 and ''Jagdgeschwader I'' (of which ''Jasta 11'' was a part) until the end of WWI. He was recognized as a dashing pilot and an able wing commander: he found his level of incompetence in WWII as ''Generalfeldmarschall'' and [[NazisWithGnarlyWeapons commander of the Luftwaffe. Luftwaffe]]. He promised more than Luftwaffe was able to provide, and his [[ThoseWackyNazis pomposity and leadership style style]] was simply not suitable for such position.
4th May '17 2:08:40 AM morane
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* Hermann Göring. A 22-vivtory AcePilot and winner of Pour le Merite (the coveted Blue Max), he commanded ''Jasta 11'' after Manfred von Richthofen's death in 1918 and ''Jagdgeschwader I'' (of which ''Jasta 11'' was a part) until the end of WWI. He was recognized as a dashing pilot and an able wing commander: he found his level of incompetence in WWII as ''Generalfeldmarschall'' and commander of the Luftwaffe. He promised more than Luftwaffe was able to provide, and his pomposity and leadership style was simply not suitable for such position.

to:

* Hermann Göring. A 22-vivtory 22-victory AcePilot and winner of Pour ''Pour le Merite Merite'' (the coveted Blue Max), ''Blue Max''), he commanded ''Jasta 11'' after Manfred von Richthofen's death in 1918 and ''Jagdgeschwader I'' (of which ''Jasta 11'' was a part) until the end of WWI. He was recognized as a dashing pilot and an able wing commander: he found his level of incompetence in WWII as ''Generalfeldmarschall'' and commander of the Luftwaffe. He promised more than Luftwaffe was able to provide, and his pomposity and leadership style was simply not suitable for such position.
4th May '17 2:06:54 AM morane
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Added DiffLines:

* Hermann Göring. A 22-vivtory AcePilot and winner of Pour le Merite (the coveted Blue Max), he commanded ''Jasta 11'' after Manfred von Richthofen's death in 1918 and ''Jagdgeschwader I'' (of which ''Jasta 11'' was a part) until the end of WWI. He was recognized as a dashing pilot and an able wing commander: he found his level of incompetence in WWII as ''Generalfeldmarschall'' and commander of the Luftwaffe. He promised more than Luftwaffe was able to provide, and his pomposity and leadership style was simply not suitable for such position.
27th Apr '17 10:37:14 PM morane
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* Captain Ernest Medina, who was indirectly responsible of the My Lai massacre. He had been a mustang (an officer risen from enlisted ranks) and he had been an excellent sergeant. Unfortunately he was completely unsuitable as an officer. He did not support his men, and he used one of his platoon leaders, Lt. William Calley, as a ChewToy and bullied him relentlessly. It didn't help Calley ''himself'' was somewhat a {{Neidermeyer}} and incompetent as an officer (he didn't know how to read map e.g.). In the aftermath of My Lai, both officers were drummed out of service, and Medina barely avoided prison.

to:

* Captain Ernest Medina, who was indirectly responsible of the My Lai massacre. He had been a mustang (an officer risen from enlisted ranks) and he had been an excellent sergeant. Unfortunately he was completely unsuitable as an officer. He did not support his men, and he used one of his platoon leaders, Lt. William Calley, as a ChewToy and bullied him relentlessly. It didn't help Calley ''himself'' was somewhat a {{Neidermeyer}} TheNeidermeyer and incompetent as an officer (he didn't know how to read map e.g.). In the aftermath of My Lai, both officers were drummed out of service, and Medina barely avoided prison.
27th Apr '17 10:36:08 PM morane
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* Captain Ernest Medina, who was indirectly responsible of the My Lai massacre. He had been a mustang (an officer risen from enlisted ranks) and he had been an excellent sergeant. Unfortunately he was completely unsuitable as an officer. He did not support his men, and he used one of his platoon leaders, Lt. William Calley, as a ChewToy and bullied him relentlessly. It didn't help Calley ''himself'' was somewhat a {{Neidermayer}} and incompetent as an officer (he didn't know how to read map e.g.). In the aftermath of My Lai, both officers were drummed out of service, and Medina barely avoided prison.

to:

* Captain Ernest Medina, who was indirectly responsible of the My Lai massacre. He had been a mustang (an officer risen from enlisted ranks) and he had been an excellent sergeant. Unfortunately he was completely unsuitable as an officer. He did not support his men, and he used one of his platoon leaders, Lt. William Calley, as a ChewToy and bullied him relentlessly. It didn't help Calley ''himself'' was somewhat a {{Neidermayer}} {{Neidermeyer}} and incompetent as an officer (he didn't know how to read map e.g.). In the aftermath of My Lai, both officers were drummed out of service, and Medina barely avoided prison.
27th Apr '17 10:33:18 PM morane
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Added DiffLines:

* Captain Ernest Medina, who was indirectly responsible of the My Lai massacre. He had been a mustang (an officer risen from enlisted ranks) and he had been an excellent sergeant. Unfortunately he was completely unsuitable as an officer. He did not support his men, and he used one of his platoon leaders, Lt. William Calley, as a ChewToy and bullied him relentlessly. It didn't help Calley ''himself'' was somewhat a {{Neidermayer}} and incompetent as an officer (he didn't know how to read map e.g.). In the aftermath of My Lai, both officers were drummed out of service, and Medina barely avoided prison.
18th Apr '17 10:12:36 AM BeerBaron
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* Trebonius Artorius, the Arch-Mage and Guildmaster of the Mages Guild from ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind''. He is actually an incredible battlemage [[spoiler:as you see when you duel with him to claim his position,]] but is rightfully treated as an administrative joke by the rest of the guild. When you ask him for something to do, he sends you on two [[SnipeHunt snipe hunts,]] one of which he barely recognizes your completing it (he's actually flabbergasted at the fact that you even had virtual success), and the other [[SuicideMission you're probably not supposed to survive.]] He also completely trusted a Telvanni [[TheMole spy]] whose credentials had High Chancellor Ocato's ''signature'' [[YouMakeMeSic spelled wrong.]]

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* Trebonius Artorius, the Arch-Mage and Guildmaster of the In ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'', Mages Guild from ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind''. Archmage Trebonius Artorius is a shining example. He is actually is an incredible battlemage [[spoiler:as you see when you duel with incredibly talented [[MagicKnight Battlemage]], which helped him to claim his position,]] but is rightfully treated as an administrative joke by rise through the rest ranks of the guild. When you ask Guild. However, he quickly proved hopelessly incompetent at managing Guild affairs. His mainland superiors responded by promoting him for something to do, he sends you on two [[SnipeHunt snipe hunts,]] one of which he barely recognizes your completing it (he's actually flabbergasted at further (in the fact that you even had virtual success), KickedUpstairs fashion) and putting him in charge of the other [[SuicideMission you're probably not supposed to survive.]] Guild branch in [[ReassignedToAntarctica the most backwater district in the Empire]] where he could cause the least amount of trouble. He also completely trusted let in a Telvanni [[TheMole badly disguised spy]] whose (whose credentials even had High Chancellor Ocato's ''signature'' [[YouMakeMeSic spelled wrong.]]wrong]]), spends his time giving his underlings (who consider him a PointyHairedBoss) {{Impossible Task}}s and sending them on {{Snipe Hunt}}s, all while generally acting petty and immature to those who offend him. When the PlayerCharacter comes to him for assignments, he sends you on a task to [[RiddleForTheAges learn about the disappearance of the]] [[OurDwarvesAreDifferent Dwemer]], and is shocked when you actually manage to find a plausible answer. Then he sends you on a mission to [[SuicideMission kill all of the Telvanni councilors]]. While there is a peaceful way to deal with him, it leaves you as the ''co''-head of the Guild with Trebonious, which is obviously less desirable. You can instead [[ChallengingTheChief challenge him in a duel to the death for his position]], receiving it as a KlingonPromotion if you win. However, need we remind you that he ''is'', despite his other flaws, a very talented Battlemage?



** Not an individual example, but the Turian race actively tries to avert this. From the in-game codex: "Throughout their lives, turians ascended to the higher tiers and are occasionally "demoted" to lower ones. The stigma associated with demotion lies not on the individual, but on those who promoted him when he wasn't ready for additional responsibility. ''This curbs the tendency to promote individuals into positions beyond their capabilities''."

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** Not an individual example, but the The Turian race actively tries to avert this. From the in-game codex: "Throughout their lives, turians ascended to the higher tiers and are occasionally "demoted" to lower ones. The stigma associated with demotion lies not on the individual, but on those who promoted him when he wasn't ready for additional responsibility. ''This curbs the tendency to promote individuals into positions beyond their capabilities''."
15th Apr '17 11:12:17 AM JulianLapostat
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* Robert Baratheon in ''Series/GameOfThrones'' was mentioned to be a good warrior and general, which was how he got his throne in the first place. Unfortunately it turned out that he was a poor administrator who rarely paid attention to his advisors whenever they tried to reign in his spending and he was [[YourCheatingHeart less than a stellar husband]] in a position that required a decent marriage to ensure stability when it was time to transfer power. The moment he died everything fell to pieces. It's often said in-universe that Robert was "the right man to win the throne, the wrong man to keep it."

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* Explored in ''Series/GameOfThrones'', where one of the main ideas explored (as in the books ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'') is to question whether a good man would be a good ruler.
**
Robert Baratheon in ''Series/GameOfThrones'' was mentioned to be a good warrior and general, which was how he got his throne in the first place. Unfortunately it turned out that he was a poor administrator who rarely paid attention to his advisors whenever they tried to reign in his spending and he was [[YourCheatingHeart less than a stellar husband]] in a position that required a decent marriage to ensure stability when it was time to transfer power. The moment he died everything fell to pieces. It's often said in-universe that Robert was "the right man to win the throne, the wrong man to keep it.""
** Ned Stark was a brilliant Lord Paramount of the North, steeped in tradition, CodeOfHonor, local laws and understanding of justice. However when he moved to the capital of King's Landing, those same codes that helped him in the North prevent from being an effective hand despite the fact that he is actually quite astute about the Crown's problems and political situations. His personal understanding of justice, and inability to separate his sentiments from is professional requirements, does not allow him to properly use his office to the fullest.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ThePeterPrinciple