History Main / TautologicalTemplar

18th Sep '17 11:18:52 AM BeerBaron
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* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, this is a trait of Meridia, a [[OurGodsAreDifferent Daedric Prince]] whose sphere is obscured to mortals, but is associated with LifeEnergy, [[LightIsNotGood Light]], and [[ProudBeauty Beauty]]. She is considered one of "good" (or at least benevolent) Daedric Princes by most mortals, but definitely has a number of GoodIsNotNice traits. She is very much a KnightTemplar toward anything undead, as well as any other entities of cruelty, darkness, rot, filth, or decay. Thus, she will stop at ''nothing'' to destroy them, even if it means causing collateral damage to innocent people or her own followers, bordering on being a WellIntentionedExtremist. Because of this, she feels that ''any'' actions she takes is therefore good and anyone who opposes or abandons her is evil. [[DisproportionateRetribution She will thus deal with them appropriately]].

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* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, this ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** This
is a trait of Meridia, a [[OurGodsAreDifferent Daedric Prince]] whose sphere is obscured to mortals, but is associated with LifeEnergy, [[LightIsNotGood Light]], and [[ProudBeauty Beauty]]. She is considered one of "good" (or at least benevolent) Daedric Princes by most mortals, but definitely has a number of GoodIsNotNice traits. She is very much a KnightTemplar toward anything undead, as well as any other entities of cruelty, darkness, rot, filth, or decay. Thus, she will stop at ''nothing'' to destroy them, even if it means causing collateral damage to innocent people or her own followers, bordering on being a WellIntentionedExtremist. Because of this, she feels that ''any'' actions she takes is therefore good and anyone who opposes or abandons her is evil. [[DisproportionateRetribution She will thus deal with them appropriately]].
** The Alessian Order was a [[FantasticRacism rabidly anti-Elven]] [[TheChurch religious sect]] which established a [[TheTheocracy Theocracy]] in the 1st Era that wielded nearly as much power as the Emperor at its height. They taught that resisting the Order was equivalent to resisting the gods themselves.
15th Sep '17 9:26:39 AM MagBas
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** This is not a fallacy when there are objective criteria of what is a "good thing" other than "done by someone who self-identifies as good person", though. Possibly even an objective definition of what a "good person" is, other than "identifies as good person" might work to make this not a fallacy. In Luther's time, most people actually believed in heaven and hell, thus, "go to heaven" could be considered to be a personal gain. And most people would agree that doing good things for personal gain does not make someone a better person. So Luther had a point in arguing that a good person would do good things out of the kindness of their heart, whereas a greedy, self serving egotist would not become a better person by donating money to the church. So whether or not this sort of theology constitutes a fallacy mostly depends on how one interprets it.

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** This is not a fallacy when there are objective criteria of what is a "good thing" other than "done by someone who self-identifies as good person", though. Possibly even an objective definition of what a "good person" is, other than "identifies as good person" might work to make this not a fallacy. In Luther's time, most people actually believed in heaven and hell, thus, "go to heaven" could be considered to be a personal gain. And most people would agree that doing good things for personal gain does not make someone a better person. So Luther had a point in arguing that a good person would do good things out of the kindness of their heart, whereas a greedy, self serving egotist would not become a better person by donating money to the church. So whether or not this sort of theology constitutes a fallacy mostly depends on how one interprets it.
15th Sep '17 5:30:30 AM Gowan
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Added DiffLines:

** This is not a fallacy when there are objective criteria of what is a "good thing" other than "done by someone who self-identifies as good person", though. Possibly even an objective definition of what a "good person" is, other than "identifies as good person" might work to make this not a fallacy. In Luther's time, most people actually believed in heaven and hell, thus, "go to heaven" could be considered to be a personal gain. And most people would agree that doing good things for personal gain does not make someone a better person. So Luther had a point in arguing that a good person would do good things out of the kindness of their heart, whereas a greedy, self serving egotist would not become a better person by donating money to the church. So whether or not this sort of theology constitutes a fallacy mostly depends on how one interprets it.
10th Sep '17 6:24:21 PM RoninMacbeth
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** The person who named the trope, German-American philosopher and journalist Carl Schurz, {{Subverted}} this trope. He actually said, "My country, right or wrong; ''when right, to keep her right; when wrong, to put her right.''" Of course, most Tautological Templars stop reading that at the first semicolon.

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** The person who named [[MyCountryRightOrWrong the trope, above trope]], German-American philosopher and journalist Carl Schurz, {{Subverted}} this trope. He actually said, "My country, right or wrong; ''when right, to keep her right; when wrong, to put her right.''" Of course, most Tautological Templars stop reading that at the first semicolon.
10th Sep '17 6:21:41 PM RoninMacbeth
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Added DiffLines:

** The person who named the trope, German-American philosopher and journalist Carl Schurz, {{Subverted}} this trope. He actually said, "My country, right or wrong; ''when right, to keep her right; when wrong, to put her right.''" Of course, most Tautological Templars stop reading that at the first semicolon.
9th Sep '17 1:40:29 AM lillolillo
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* Tousen from ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'' is revealed to be this, though not too surprising as he'd turned out to be TheMole and had long appeared to be a KnightTemplar anyway. It was known that he became obsessed with justice when a friend of his was murdered by her ''{{Shinigami}}'' husband who managed to get away with the crime; it transpires that the reason he turned against Soul Society was for revenge (he has previously implied it was because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, though this was still somewhat true), believing that forgiveness of any sort was a mockery of justice and feeling he was completely entitled to take revenge on Soul Society and all of its inhabitants, even if that means helping the BigBad become a god and not really worrying about the countless innocent lives he was killing or planning to kill along the way.

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* ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'':
**
Tousen from ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'' is revealed to be this, though not too surprising as he'd turned out to be TheMole and had long appeared to be a KnightTemplar anyway. It was known that he became obsessed with justice when a friend of his was murdered by her ''{{Shinigami}}'' husband who managed to get away with the crime; it transpires that the reason he turned against Soul Society was for revenge (he has previously implied it was because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, though this was still somewhat true), believing that forgiveness of any sort was a mockery of justice and feeling he was completely entitled to take revenge on Soul Society and all of its inhabitants, even if that means helping the BigBad become a god and not really worrying about the countless innocent lives he was killing or planning to kill along the way.



* '''''[[ComicBook/DoctorDoom DOOM]] IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!''''' This, in a nutshell, sums up everything about Doctor Doom's character; he sincerely believes he's the smartest man in the world, a veritable god, and that his brilliance means he deserves to rule over the world. DependingOnTheWriter, sometimes, the authors seem to ''[[RunningTheAsylum agree]]'' with him.
* [[Franchise/TheFlash Zoom (Hunter Zolomon)]] thinks he's performing a vital service by [[DespairEventHorizon putting heroes through utter hell]] under the belief that MiseryBuildsCharacter and will make them "stronger" heroes. Unfortunately, however, his beliefs absolutely do not match up with reality, he is [[AxCrazy profoundly]] [[TheMentallyDisturbed disturbed]], and his moral code is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality completely incomprehensible to others]]. Furthermore, he's probably up there with the Joker in terms of how dangerous he is to his own allies as he is to heroes, as he will ''brutally'' attack anyone who he thinks is impeding his progress with "improving" his current target.

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* ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'': '''''[[ComicBook/DoctorDoom DOOM]] IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!''''' This, in a nutshell, sums up everything about Doctor Doom's character; he sincerely believes he's the smartest man in the world, a veritable god, and that his brilliance means he deserves to rule over the world. DependingOnTheWriter, sometimes, the authors seem to ''[[RunningTheAsylum agree]]'' with him.
* [[Franchise/TheFlash ''Franchise/TheFlash'': Zoom (Hunter Zolomon)]] Zolomon) thinks he's performing a vital service by [[DespairEventHorizon putting heroes through utter hell]] under the belief that MiseryBuildsCharacter and will make them "stronger" heroes. Unfortunately, however, his beliefs absolutely do not match up with reality, he is [[AxCrazy profoundly]] [[TheMentallyDisturbed disturbed]], and his moral code is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality completely incomprehensible to others]]. Furthermore, he's probably up there with the Joker in terms of how dangerous he is to his own allies as he is to heroes, as he will ''brutally'' attack anyone who he thinks is impeding his progress with "improving" his current target.



* ComicBook/{{Venom}} believes that he's the good guy and anything he does to [[Franchise/SpiderMan Spider-Man]] is justified because he "ruined his life." The fact that Spider-Man [[UnknownRival hadn't even met the man before he got his powers]] does nothing to dissuade this view.
* ComicBook/LexLuthor sometimes has this attitude with Franchise/{{Superman}}, especially evident in ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel''. He justifies his crusade to bring down the hero by proclaiming that Superman, as a godlike alien, is a menace to humanity who impedes our progress by dint of his existence, and more crudely that Luthor is capable of solving all the Earth's problems but he can't until Superman is dead, and to be more specific dead at his hands. Doesn't seem to have any problem teaming up with ''other'' aliens like ComicBook/{{Brainiac}}, even if those aliens really are out to enslave us all and make no secret of the fact. His supposed belief in the potential and value of humanity also doesn't seem to stop him from planning atrocities which, in attempting to destroy or 'expose' Superman, usually ratchet up a pretty hefty body count in human life in the process.

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* ComicBook/{{Venom}} believes that he's the good guy and anything he does to [[Franchise/SpiderMan Spider-Man]] Franchise/SpiderMan is justified because he "ruined his life." The fact that Spider-Man [[UnknownRival hadn't even met the man before he got his powers]] does nothing to dissuade this view.
* ComicBook/LexLuthor sometimes has this attitude with Franchise/{{Superman}}, Franchise/{{Superman}} -and to a lesser extent ComicBook/{{Supergirl}}-, especially evident in ''ComicBook/LexLuthorManOfSteel''. He justifies his crusade to bring down the hero by proclaiming that Superman, as a godlike alien, is a menace to humanity who impedes our progress by dint of his existence, and more crudely that Luthor is capable of solving all the Earth's problems but he can't until Superman is dead, and to be more specific dead at his hands. Doesn't seem to have any problem teaming up with ''other'' aliens like ComicBook/{{Brainiac}}, ComicBook/{{Brainiac}} or even ComicBook/{{Darkseid}}, even if those aliens really are out to enslave us all and make no secret of the fact. His supposed belief in the potential and value of humanity also doesn't seem to stop him from planning atrocities which, in attempting to destroy or 'expose' Superman, usually ratchet up a pretty hefty body count in human life in the process.



* Superboy Prime from ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'' jumped pretty quickly from "[[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks Dark Age]] heroes are too violent and amoral" to "Time for me to start killing them."

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* Superboy ComicBook/{{Superboy}} Prime from ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'' jumped pretty quickly from "[[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks Dark Age]] heroes are too violent and amoral" to "Time for me to start killing them."



* In ''[[FanFic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders 3 Slytherin Marauders]]'', Neville gains this twisted worldview as a result of both nature ([[LamarckWasRight his mother]], Alice was a KnightTemplar) and nurture (he grew up [[TheResenter resenting]] Harry Potter and living in constant fear of his life from his EvilUncle Algie.) No matter what he does, he is justified in his own mind, and no matter what anyone says or does, he believes that Harry is evil.

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* In ''[[FanFic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders 3 Slytherin Marauders]]'', ''FanFic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders'', Neville gains this twisted worldview as a result of both nature ([[LamarckWasRight his mother]], Alice was a KnightTemplar) and nurture (he grew up [[TheResenter resenting]] Harry Potter and living in constant fear of his life from his EvilUncle Algie.) No matter what he does, he is justified in his own mind, and no matter what anyone says or does, he believes that Harry is evil.



* Creator/CSLewis, though a devout Christian, wrote that theocracy is his least favorite form of government due to this trope. As Lewis described, a secular dictator has a chance, even if an infinitesimal one, of [[HeelRealization realizing he's wrong]], whereas a theocrat wholeheartedly believes God is on his side, and thus, how could he be anything other than right? After all, God would stop him if he were to do anything wrong!

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* Creator/CSLewis, though a devout Christian, wrote that theocracy is his least favorite form of government due to this trope.government. As Lewis described, a secular dictator has a chance, even if an infinitesimal one, of [[HeelRealization realizing he's wrong]], whereas a theocrat wholeheartedly believes God is on his side, and thus, how could he be anything other than right? After all, God would stop him if he were to do anything wrong!



* Creator/AlFranken's ''Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them" describes Republicans' viewpoint towards the US as this.
-->[Republicans] love America like a 4-year-old loves his mommy... To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad.



* In the ''[[Literature/AncillaryJustice Imperial Radch]]'' series, Lord Anaander Mianaai is the absolute ruler of the Radch and is generally believed to personify the Radchaai values of Justice, Propriety, and Benefit; so Mianaai quite sincerely believes that all of her actions are, by definition, for the good of the Radch. Those actions include massacring entire planets, summarily executing citizens for minor inconveniences, and using the entire Radch as pawns in a covert civil war between two factions of her [[MesACrowd thousands of cloned bodies]].

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* ''Literature/AncillaryJustice'': In the ''[[Literature/AncillaryJustice '' Imperial Radch]]'' Radch'' series, Lord Anaander Mianaai is the absolute ruler of the Radch and is generally believed to personify the Radchaai values of Justice, Propriety, and Benefit; so Mianaai quite sincerely believes that all of her actions are, by definition, for the good of the Radch. Those actions include massacring entire planets, summarily executing citizens for minor inconveniences, and using the entire Radch as pawns in a covert civil war between two factions of her [[MesACrowd thousands of cloned bodies]].



* ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'': Just about every Radical Inquisitor is in danger of (eventually) becoming this. The important distinction between Radicals and Puritans (who will happily nuke a planet if the slightest whiff of heresy is found) is that the Radicals are willing to tread the thin line between heresy and non-heresy (as dictated by the Imperial Creed), as well as turn the tools of the enemy against it, e.g. Chaos against Chaos (daemonically possessed weapon and hosts, etc). Of course, many such Radicals are overconfident enough to always think they can control it, fall under the Daemon's control without realizing it, and then get surprised/outraged when another Inquisitor comes to investigate and/or assassinate them. Of the different types of radicals, Xanthians may risk becoming this while Oblationists already are ones. Others such as the Seculous Attendos and Xeno Hybris completely dive into heresy because they believe that the Imperial Creed is actually holding humanity back and therefore aren't an example. The main reason these two forms aren't is because they don't try to use chaos. Seculous Attendos want the Imperium to become secular while Xeno Hybris think that humanity is better off trying to cooperate with some species[[note]]No matter you open-mindedness there's no cooperating with the likes of a Tyranid swarm or the old-version Necrons, and dealing with something like the C'Tan would be as bad as Chaos. Plus there's the odd [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot Chaos-worshipping alien]] who gets to piss off even the Hybris by ''also'' being heretical in ways they actually care about.[[/note]] of Xenos.

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* ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'': ''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'':
**
Just about every Radical Inquisitor is in danger of (eventually) becoming this. The important distinction between Radicals and Puritans (who will happily nuke a planet if the slightest whiff of heresy is found) is that the Radicals are willing to tread the thin line between heresy and non-heresy (as dictated by the Imperial Creed), as well as turn the tools of the enemy against it, e.g. Chaos against Chaos (daemonically possessed weapon and hosts, etc). Of course, many such Radicals are overconfident enough to always think they can control it, fall under the Daemon's control without realizing it, and then get surprised/outraged when another Inquisitor comes to investigate and/or assassinate them. Of the different types of radicals, Xanthians may risk becoming this while Oblationists already are ones. Others such as the Seculous Attendos and Xeno Hybris completely dive into heresy because they believe that the Imperial Creed is actually holding humanity back and therefore aren't an example. The main reason these two forms aren't is because they don't try to use chaos. Seculous Attendos want the Imperium to become secular while Xeno Hybris think that humanity is better off trying to cooperate with some species[[note]]No matter you open-mindedness there's no cooperating with the likes of a Tyranid swarm or the old-version Necrons, and dealing with something like the C'Tan would be as bad as Chaos. Plus there's the odd [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot Chaos-worshipping alien]] who gets to piss off even the Hybris by ''also'' being heretical in ways they actually care about.[[/note]] of Xenos.


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** The Emperor of Mankind maintains that killing people who don't share your beliefs and worldview is awful except when he does it because he's right. He has been called out on his hypocrisy.
--->'''The Emperor:''' It is my dream. An Imperium of Man that exists without recourse to gods and the supernatural. A united galaxy with Terra at its heart. [...] These warriors shall be my generals and they will lead my great crusade to the furthest corners of the galaxy.\\
'''Uriah:''' Didn't you just tell me of the bloody slaughters perpetrated by crusaders? Doesn't that make you no better than the holy men you were telling me about?\\
'''The Emperor:''' The difference is that I am right.\\
'''Uriah:''' Spoken like a true autocrat.
4th Sep '17 10:34:55 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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'''The Emperor:''' [[MoralMyopia The difference is that I am right]].\\

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'''The Emperor:''' [[MoralMyopia The difference is that I am right]].right.\\
4th Sep '17 10:30:41 PM bfunc
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** Dr. H himself doesn't have any illusions about which side he's on ... he's trying to get into the "Evil League of Evil", after all ... but he still apparently believes that once he's in charge, everyone (or at least the vast majority) will be legitimately better off than they are now. "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it."
31st Aug '17 4:56:59 PM MagBas
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The {{Knight Templar}} may realize their wrongdoing. If they don't they will become this trope and answer that [[CircularReasoning they are good, and their every action is good because]] ''[[CircularReasoning they]]'' [[CircularReasoning are good]] .

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The {{Knight Templar}} may realize their wrongdoing. If they don't they will become this trope and Templar}}'s answer that is simple. [[CircularReasoning they They are good, and their every action is good because]] ''[[CircularReasoning they]]'' [[CircularReasoning are good]] .
31st Aug '17 1:19:23 PM ElloMe
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* Website/{{Cracked}}: [=Luke McKinney=] has a reputation for writing articles that come across as excessively, illogically feminist (Such as making a list of obscure, boring superheroines that should get movies before ''Film/FantasticFour2015'', [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad simply because they're female]]), getting criticised for trying too hard to look progressive, then writing a follow-up article about how everyone who disagrees with him is evil. Some of his most ardent critics are [[UnwantedAssistance self-identified Feminists...]]
** Also, J.F. Sargent, a writer so reviled in the ''Cracked'' community as to become something of a legend. In recent years Sargent's writing style has degenerated to the point where he feels the need to talk down to his audience regarding social justice issues, completely oblivious to the fact that ''Cracked's'' readership is largely progressive and thus his writing is an insult to their intelligence. One of his social justice articles revealed that he ''condoned'' violent protests [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad as long as they're for the sake of PC]].
** It seems to be managerial: Editor in Chiefs David Wong and Jack O'Brien both have written numerous articles speaking out against censoring or shouting down differing opinions, including (for one notable example) banning people for holding different opinions. Go to any comment section on a Sargent or [=McKinney=] article and count how many people remark that they had to get new accounts because their old one was locked due to differing with the article's opinion. There will be many.
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