History Main / TanksButNoTanks

27th Oct '16 10:05:28 PM DarkHunter
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** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with the real-life German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer". The rough equivalent term in English is "Armored Fighting Vehicle" (AFV), but the show's dub never uses it, just calling them "tanks".

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** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with the real-life German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer". The rough equivalent term in English is "Armored Fighting Vehicle" (AFV), but the show's dub never uses it, just calling them "tanks"."tanks", possibly because AFV can refer to wheeled vehicles as well.
27th Oct '16 10:03:58 PM DarkHunter
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** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with the real-life German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer".

to:

** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with the real-life German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer". The rough equivalent term in English is "Armored Fighting Vehicle" (AFV), but the show's dub never uses it, just calling them "tanks".
6th Oct '16 3:29:44 PM WulfHound
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* ''VideoGame/CompanyOfHeroes'' has the M26 Pershing tank available to American forces in Normandy circa June 1944. Historically, it did not see action until February 1945, and then in tiny numbers for field testing[[note]]The M26 could have been ready for production by mid 1944, and indeed, General Eisenhower asked for them in time for D-Day. However, the request was refused on the grounds that existing ships and cargo-handling capacities were unsuitable--even though that did not pose a problem when they were being unloaded at Antwerp in early 1945.[[/note]]. The ExpansionPack ''Opposing Fronts'' features a Bergetiger Recovery Vehicle, of which exactly ''one'' was ever used in real life. This has led to theories that it was used for something completely different.

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* ''VideoGame/CompanyOfHeroes'' has the M26 Pershing tank available to American forces in Normandy circa June 1944. Historically, it did not see action until February 1945, and then in tiny numbers for field testing[[note]]The M26 could have been ready for production by mid 1944, and indeed, General Eisenhower asked for them in time for D-Day. However, the request was refused on the grounds that existing ships and cargo-handling capacities were unsuitable--even though that did not pose a problem when they were being unloaded at Antwerp in early 1945.[[/note]].testing. The ExpansionPack ''Opposing Fronts'' features a Bergetiger Recovery Vehicle, of which exactly ''one'' was ever used in real life. This has led to theories that it was used for something completely different.
5th Oct '16 6:12:06 PM TheLearnedSoldier
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Added DiffLines:

**Somewhat justified as this was basically the equivalent of a first responder tank that got rolled out to deal with the sudden and entirely unexpected appearance of an Alien Spacecraft over downtown London. Though someone who knew their DW Lore might wonder what UNIT and Torchwood were doing while this took place...
2nd Oct '16 12:27:25 AM DarkHunter
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* In ''Anime/GirlsUndPanzer'':
** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer". See RealLife below.

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* In ''Anime/GirlsUndPanzer'':
''Anime/GirlsUndPanzer'', despite the fact that the writers have obviously [[ShownTheirWork done their homework]] on tank combat, a few oddities slipped through:
** All tracked vehicles are called "sensha", in keeping with the real-life German practice of calling all armored vehicles "panzer". See RealLife below."panzer".



** Frankly, this anime is possibly one of the best examples of tanks and tank combat outside of reality. The tank models are accurate, the gunplay is accurate, and its obvious that the writers have done their research. Certainly more of a Tank Goodness series than a Tanks but no Tanks anime.
4th Sep '16 11:22:06 AM nombretomado
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One of the most common mistakes is to treat all armored vehicles as tanks. Armored cars, self-propelled guns, [[AwesomePersonnelCarrier armored personnel carriers]] and several other types of armored fighting vehicles can be and frequently are misidentified as tanks, just as every warship is a "battleship" to most civilians. In real life all of these vehicle types and more are commonly lumped together under the catch-all term "Armored Fighting Vehicles" which is usually contracted to just "armor" or, if you want to be all snooty about it, [=AFV=] (no [[AmericasFunniestHomeVideos relation]]). Despite the common logic of "if it looks like a tank, acts like a tank, smells like a tank, it's a tank", many [=AFVs=] that look like tanks don't fit the definition, as tanks are usually characterized by being more of a product of old warfare, therefore ''way'' more heavily armoured and generally built to take the brunt of enemy fire than their [=AFV=] cousins, which usually possess lighter armour and rely more on indirect combat. Of course, this makes tanks rather expensive to make and maintain compared to other armoured vehicles, which is why we're seeing fewer actual tanks portrayed by the media these days.

to:

One of the most common mistakes is to treat all armored vehicles as tanks. Armored cars, self-propelled guns, [[AwesomePersonnelCarrier armored personnel carriers]] and several other types of armored fighting vehicles can be and frequently are misidentified as tanks, just as every warship is a "battleship" to most civilians. In real life all of these vehicle types and more are commonly lumped together under the catch-all term "Armored Fighting Vehicles" which is usually contracted to just "armor" or, if you want to be all snooty about it, [=AFV=] (no [[AmericasFunniestHomeVideos [[Series/AmericasFunniestHomeVideos relation]]). Despite the common logic of "if it looks like a tank, acts like a tank, smells like a tank, it's a tank", many [=AFVs=] that look like tanks don't fit the definition, as tanks are usually characterized by being more of a product of old warfare, therefore ''way'' more heavily armoured and generally built to take the brunt of enemy fire than their [=AFV=] cousins, which usually possess lighter armour and rely more on indirect combat. Of course, this makes tanks rather expensive to make and maintain compared to other armoured vehicles, which is why we're seeing fewer actual tanks portrayed by the media these days.
1st Sep '16 12:26:49 PM Morgenthaler
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* ''VideoGame/WorldOfTanks'' tries to avert this, naturally, and includes some tanks that never got off of the drawing board. However many, if not most of the vehicles described as "Tank Destroyers" are actually "Assault Guns" - designed for anti-fortification use and infantry support rather than fighting other [=AFVs=]. This may have to do with how neither types of combat appear in ''WorldOfTanks'', being exactly what it says on the tin. However, see the TV Tropes Wiki category below; the definition of a "tank destroyer" gets really complicated, and the game reflects the [[OpposingCombatPhilosophies opposing design philosophies]] of various nations.

to:

* ''VideoGame/WorldOfTanks'' tries to avert this, naturally, and includes some tanks that never got off of the drawing board. However many, if not most of the vehicles described as "Tank Destroyers" are actually "Assault Guns" - designed for anti-fortification use and infantry support rather than fighting other [=AFVs=]. This may have to do with how neither types of combat appear in ''WorldOfTanks'', ''World of Tanks'', being exactly what it says on the tin. However, see the TV Tropes Wiki category below; the definition of a "tank destroyer" gets really complicated, and the game reflects the [[OpposingCombatPhilosophies opposing design philosophies]] of various nations.
23rd Aug '16 8:10:41 AM dresdor
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Added DiffLines:

* In Harry Turtledove's The Great War series, this trope would be Barrels, but No Barrels, which loses some of its flavor.
20th Aug '16 2:44:24 AM Morgenthaler
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* In NewZealand during WorldWarII, the Minister for Public Works, Bob Semple, commissioned the construction of the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semple_tank Semple Tank]] (in fact, it was just an [[ClosestThingWeGot armored tractor]]). It had no blueprints, had numerous design flaws, never got beyond the prototype stage, and was laughed at by the public. However, it is remembered most as an example of the New Zealand do-it-yourself ethos.

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* In NewZealand UsefulNotes/NewZealand during WorldWarII, the Minister for Public Works, Bob Semple, commissioned the construction of the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semple_tank Semple Tank]] (in fact, it was just an [[ClosestThingWeGot armored tractor]]). It had no blueprints, had numerous design flaws, never got beyond the prototype stage, and was laughed at by the public. However, it is remembered most as an example of the New Zealand do-it-yourself ethos.
7th Aug '16 6:30:49 PM MAI742
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There are many very good reasons for this. Firstly, antique armored vehicles are actually quite scarce. Some vehicles -- particularly those from the defeated Axis nations -- were never exactly common in the first place. Fewer than 500 King Tiger tanks were produced as opposed to 47,000 M4 Shermans, and many contemporary Italian or Japanese vehicles were produced in even smaller numbers, surviving examples simply may not even exist (Unless being scattered in small pieces across remote Pacific islands or buried in the Russian steppe counts as "surviving"). To make it even harder, some of these vehicles are now historical artifacts belonging to museums and obviously cannot be used recklessly or destroyed.

Next, as the Sherman production numbers above suggest, filmmakers naturally took advantage of the huge glut of cheap surplus U.S. Army equipment in the immediate postwar period. If a studio has running vehicles in their prop inventory that are available for filming without much hassle, then simple convenience means they'll get used, accurate or not. These days, most armored fighting vehicles that don't meet their end on the battlefield will probably be scrapped before anyone else can get their hands on them. Tanks have never been particularly attractive on the surplus market since they are huge, heavy, fuel-guzzling lumps of steel that can easily cost more to restore and preserve than recycle.

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There are many very good reasons for this. Firstly, antique armored vehicles most survivors are actually quite scarce. Some vehicles -- particularly those from the defeated Axis nations -- were never exactly common in the first place. Fewer than 500 King Tiger tanks were produced as opposed to 47,000 M4 Shermans, and many contemporary Italian or Japanese vehicles were produced in even smaller numbers, surviving examples simply may not even exist (Unless being scattered in small pieces across remote Pacific islands or buried in the Russian steppe counts as "surviving"). To make it even harder, some of these vehicles are now historical artifacts belonging to museums and obviously cannot be used recklessly or destroyed.destroyed. Moreover, many types of antique armored vehicles are actually quite scarce, and some were quite rare in the first place - the WWII Axis were the worst offenders as they favoured shorter production runs and a far greater number of variants. Just 492 King Tiger panzers were produced, as against 47k M4 Sherman tanks (all variants), and many contemporary Italian or Japanese vehicles were produced in even smaller numbers. In many cases surviving examples aren't available (e.g. submerged in a Belarussian swamp) or simply don't exist due to the ravages of combat, the temptations of scrapping/salvage, and the passage of time.

Next, as the Sherman production numbers above suggest, Anglo-American filmmakers naturally took advantage of the huge glut of cheap surplus U.S. Army equipment in the immediate postwar period. If a studio has running vehicles in their prop inventory that are available for filming without much hassle, then simple convenience means they'll get used, accurate or not. These days, most armored fighting vehicles that don't meet their end on the battlefield will probably be scrapped before anyone else can get their hands on them. Tanks have never been particularly attractive on the surplus market since they are huge, heavy, fuel-guzzling lumps of steel that can easily cost more to restore and preserve than recycle.



Then there's the matter of RealLife politics, where vehicles you'd ideally want for realism simply can't be obtained at all since they're currently being used or held by an unfriendly power. It's easily forgotten today that prior to TheGreatPoliticsMessUp, getting realistic Soviet or Eastern Bloc military vehicles for filming many a Cold War thriller was darn near impossible. Whereas today, you can just phone the Russians and ask them nicely (and offer to pay cash up front).

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Then there's the matter of RealLife politics, where vehicles you'd ideally want for realism simply can't be obtained at all since they're currently being used or held by an unfriendly power. It's easily forgotten today that prior to TheGreatPoliticsMessUp, getting realistic Soviet or Eastern Bloc military vehicles for filming many a Cold War thriller was darn near impossible.impossible unless you were an Eastern Bloc filmmaker. Whereas today, you can just phone the Russians and ask them nicely (and offer to pay cash up front).
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