History Main / StrandedWithEdison

28th Dec '15 4:09:53 PM thatother1dude
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* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20,000 men each at Rocroi in 1643, 50 years before that Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160,000 men, of which over 40,000 were trained musketmen. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then. ** Japan had a population greater than that of France and a population density comparable to that of the Dutch Republic, i.e. lots concentrated in very small areas of farm-able land - that's just how wet-rice cultivation works out. At the time of Rocroi the Spanish Habsburgs' multiple monarchy (of Aragon, Castile, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia, Milan, Burgundy, Navarre etcetc) was supporting a force of some 500,000 regulars, militiamen and sailors across Italy, the Low Countries, Spain and both Americas. ** It's a question of power-projection. The Dutch East India Company (VOC) couldn't afford to try and hold Formosa (Taiwan) with more than a couple of thousand mercenaries. Successfully taking Korea would have, in any case, simply meant that the Empire of the Ming - possessed of five-to-ten times the population of the Japanese isles and an order of magnitude richer than them - would've been forced to spend a little more money buying firearms for their own troops, is all. ** And if you're still wondering, the Europeans and especially the British had by that time made several technical innovations to seafaring that meant that trans-oceanic deployments were a casual (though lengthy) cruise you would usually eventually come back from, whereas with Japan's 16th century naval technology setting out for Spain with 500,000 regulars would have ended with you trying to take the Basque country with your remaining four guys with scurvy. Ships, clocks, and charts were what won Europe the world in the colonial age much more than muskets and cannon. Making it across the sea to mainland China was a bit of a feat of daring for 1600s Japan.
to:
* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20,000 men each at Rocroi in 1643, 50 years before that Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160,000 men, of which over 40,000 were trained musketmen. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then. ** Japan had a population greater than that of France and a population density comparable to that of the Dutch Republic, i.e. lots concentrated in very small areas of farm-able land - that's just how wet-rice cultivation works out. At the time of Rocroi the Spanish Habsburgs' multiple monarchy (of Aragon, Castile, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia, Milan, Burgundy, Navarre etcetc) was supporting a force of some 500,000 regulars, militiamen and sailors across Italy, the Low Countries, Spain and both Americas. ** It's a question of power-projection. The Dutch East India Company (VOC) couldn't afford to try and hold Formosa (Taiwan) with more than a couple of thousand mercenaries. Successfully taking Korea would have, in any case, simply meant that the Empire of the Ming - possessed of five-to-ten times the population of the Japanese isles and an order of magnitude richer than them - would've been forced to spend a little more money buying firearms for their own troops, is all. ** And if you're still wondering, the Europeans and especially the British had by that time made several technical innovations to seafaring that meant that trans-oceanic deployments were a casual (though lengthy) cruise you would usually eventually come back from, whereas with Japan's 16th century naval technology setting out for Spain with 500,000 regulars would have ended with you trying to take the Basque country with your remaining four guys with scurvy. Ships, clocks, and charts were what won Europe the world in the colonial age much more than muskets and cannon. Making it across the sea to mainland China was a bit of a feat of daring for 1600s Japan. musketmen.
5th Oct '15 1:01:17 PM LBHills
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* {{Discussed}}, but {{averted}}, in ''Literature/MostlyHarmless'': when Arthur Dent is stranded on a planet with an Iron Age culture, he initially thinks he can bring them civilization, before realizing that he doesn't actually know how to make anything. Except sandwiches...
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* {{Discussed}}, but {{averted}}, in ''Literature/MostlyHarmless'': when Arthur Dent is stranded on a planet with an Iron Age culture, he initially thinks he can bring them civilization, before realizing that he doesn't actually know how to make anything. Except sandwiches... ''make'' anything... except sandwiches. A few months later, his adopted people are hailing him as their Sandwich Maker.
14th Sep '15 6:19:29 PM Fireblood
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Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which UsefulNotes/HenryFord and UsefulNotes/ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was loosely based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
to:
Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which UsefulNotes/HenryFord and UsefulNotes/ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, (which, in turn, was loosely based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).

* Mark Twain's ''Literature/AConnecticutYankeeInKingArthursCourt'' (1889). After time traveling back to the 6th century, Hank Morgan uses his knowledge of manufacturing to build hidden factories that produce modern (1879) tools and weapons, thus industrializing King Arthur's kingdom. Justified in that Hank, while something of a drunk and a troublemaker, complains about losing his job as what would now be referred to as an industrial metallurgist and machinist. It is quite realistic that someone with that background and access to early iron-age materials and equipment would not find it terribly hard to produce steam-age technology and reproduce the relatively well-known and simple recipe for gunpowder; especially since he was transported to one of the regions where said technology originated, so he wouldn't exactly be short on raw materials or craftsmen with vaguely relevant expertise. * In the Literature/CiaphasCain novel ''Death or Glory'', their makeshift convoy/militia (made up from the rescued survivors/slaves from a town looted by orks) has just enough specialists to survive: a tracker to help them find water and supply dumps, a vet to serve as an impromptu doctor a technopriest to keep their vehicles running and enough former police, gang members and PDF troops to form a militia and a former not-so-Obstructive Bureaucrat to manage their supplies. * Discussed, but averted, in ''Literature/MostlyHarmless'': when Arthur Dent is stranded on a planet with an Iron Age culture, he initially thinks he can bring them civilisation, before realising that he doesn't actually know how to make anything. Except sandwiches...
to:
* Mark Twain's ''Literature/AConnecticutYankeeInKingArthursCourt'' (1889). After time traveling back to the 6th century, Hank Morgan uses his knowledge of manufacturing to build hidden factories that produce modern (1879) tools and weapons, thus industrializing King Arthur's kingdom. Justified [[JustifiedTrope Justified]] in that Hank, while something of a drunk and a troublemaker, complains about losing his job as what would now be referred to as an industrial metallurgist and machinist. It is quite realistic that someone with that background and access to early iron-age materials and equipment would not find it terribly hard to produce steam-age technology and reproduce the relatively well-known and simple recipe for gunpowder; especially since he was transported to one of the regions where said technology originated, so he wouldn't exactly be short on raw materials or craftsmen with vaguely relevant expertise. * In the Literature/CiaphasCain novel ''Death or Glory'', their makeshift convoy/militia (made up from the rescued survivors/slaves from of a town looted by orks) has just enough specialists to survive: a tracker to help them find water and supply dumps, a vet to serve as an impromptu doctor a technopriest to keep their vehicles running and enough former police, gang members and PDF troops to form a militia and a former not-so-Obstructive Bureaucrat to manage their supplies. * Discussed, {{Discussed}}, but averted, {{averted}}, in ''Literature/MostlyHarmless'': when Arthur Dent is stranded on a planet with an Iron Age culture, he initially thinks he can bring them civilisation, civilization, before realising realizing that he doesn't actually know how to make anything. Except sandwiches...

* The ''Literature/SixteenThirtyTwo'' series involves a Mysterious Event teleporting a self-sufficient town from West Virginia into 17th century Germany. The town has a library and a school, so plenty of books, a coal power plant with fairly large stocks of fuel from the parts of the nearby coal mine that came with them, and oil wells. With advanced knowledge, they are able to make down-leveled for the 21st century, but up-level for 17th century gear.
to:
* The ''Literature/SixteenThirtyTwo'' series involves a Mysterious Event teleporting a self-sufficient town from West Virginia into 17th century Germany. The town has a library and a school, so plenty of books, a coal power plant with fairly large stocks of fuel from the parts of the nearby coal mine that came with them, and oil wells. With advanced knowledge, they are able to make down-leveled for the 21st century, but up-level for 17th century century, gear.

* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20 000 men each at Rocroi in 1643. 50 years before that Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160 000 men, of which over 40 000 were trained musketmen. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then. ** Japan had a population greater than that of France and a population density comparable to that of the Dutch Republic, i.e. lots concentrated in very small areas of farm-able land - that's just how wet-rice cultivation works out. At the time of Rocroi the Spanish Habsburgs' multiple monarchy (of Aragon, Castile, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia, Milan, Burgundy, Navarre etcetc) was supporting a force of some 500 000 regulars, militiamen and sailors across Italy, the Low Countries, Spain and both Americas.
to:
* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20 000 20,000 men each at Rocroi in 1643. 1643, 50 years before that Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160 000 160,000 men, of which over 40 000 40,000 were trained musketmen. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then. ** Japan had a population greater than that of France and a population density comparable to that of the Dutch Republic, i.e. lots concentrated in very small areas of farm-able land - that's just how wet-rice cultivation works out. At the time of Rocroi the Spanish Habsburgs' multiple monarchy (of Aragon, Castile, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia, Milan, Burgundy, Navarre etcetc) was supporting a force of some 500 000 500,000 regulars, militiamen and sailors across Italy, the Low Countries, Spain and both Americas.

** And if you're still wondering, the Europeans and especially the British had by that time made several technical innovations to seafaring that meant that trans-oceanic deployments were a casual (though lengthy) cruise you would usually eventually come back from, whereas with Japan's 16th century naval technology setting out for Spain with 500000 regulars would have ended with you trying to take the Basque country with your remaining four guys with scurvy. Ships, clocks, and charts were what won Europe the world in the colonial age much more than muskets and cannon. Making it across the sea to mainland China was a bit of a feat of daring for 1600s Japan.
to:
** And if you're still wondering, the Europeans and especially the British had by that time made several technical innovations to seafaring that meant that trans-oceanic deployments were a casual (though lengthy) cruise you would usually eventually come back from, whereas with Japan's 16th century naval technology setting out for Spain with 500000 500,000 regulars would have ended with you trying to take the Basque country with your remaining four guys with scurvy. Ships, clocks, and charts were what won Europe the world in the colonial age much more than muskets and cannon. Making it across the sea to mainland China was a bit of a feat of daring for 1600s Japan.
31st Jul '15 11:07:01 PM phoenix
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* Jules Verne's ''TheMysteriousIsland'' is pretty much entirely about this trope. In the book, a group of five Civil War era people, headed by an incredibly knowledgeable engineer, are trapped on an island in the Pacific. Within 4 years, they manage to re-create (at a small level) most aspects of 1860s technology while trapped on a deserted island, with (almost) no outside help. By the end of the book, they even manage to have a telegraph set up on the island.
to:
* Jules Verne's ''TheMysteriousIsland'' ''Literature/TheMysteriousIsland'' is pretty much entirely about this trope. In the book, a group of five Civil War era people, headed by an incredibly knowledgeable engineer, are trapped on an island in the Pacific. Within 4 years, they manage to re-create (at a small level) most aspects of 1860s technology while trapped on a deserted island, with (almost) no outside help. By the end of the book, they even manage to have a telegraph set up on the island.
20th Apr '15 2:51:12 PM WillKeaton
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* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20 000 men each at Rocroi in 1643, Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160 000 men, out of which over 40 000 trained musketmen, even 50 years before. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then.
to:
* Portuguese sailors and traders who got stranded in Japan by a stroke of bad luck in the early 1500s brought primitive firearms with them. In less than a generation, the Japanese used [[KatanasAreJustBetter their skills in metalworking]] to mass produce and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegashima_%28Japanese_matchlock%29 to improve]] the primitive matchlock musket, such that some were [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome nigh-impervious to rain]]. While two European empires fought with armies of roughly 20 000 men each at Rocroi in 1643, 1643. 50 years before that Japan could project over the sea to Korea 160 000 men, out of which over 40 000 were trained musketmen, even 50 years before.musketmen. Makes one wonder why weren't the Japanese the guys to sail the seas to Europe to conquer it back then.
9th Jan '15 10:08:06 AM Micah
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* Averted in the flash-fiction story ''Rome Sweet Rome''. A modern-day regiment of U.S. Marines are suddenly time-warped to ancient Rome. While initially having a huge military advantage against the Romans at first, due to their advanced technology, the marines quickly realize that without modern infrastructure they will be rendered helpless inside a few weeks (as their tanks run out of gas and as their guns run out of bullets), forcing them to consider negotiating with the Romans.
9th Jan '15 9:04:46 AM WillBGood
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* Mark Twain's ''Literature/AConnecticutYankeeInKingArthursCourt'' (1889). After time traveling back to the 6th century, Hank Morgan uses his knowledge of manufacturing to build hidden factories that produce modern (1879) tools and weapons, thus industrializing King Arthur's kingdom. \\ \\ Justified, in that Hank, while something of a drunk and a troublemaker, complains about losing his job as what would now be referred to as an industrial metallurgist and machinist. It is quite realistic that someone with that background and access to early iron-age materials and equipment would not find it terribly hard to produce steam-age technology and reproduce the relatively well-known and simple recipe for gunpowder; especially since he was transported to one of the regions where said technology originated, so he wouldn't exactly be short on raw materials or craftsmen with vaguely relevant expertise.
to:
* Mark Twain's ''Literature/AConnecticutYankeeInKingArthursCourt'' (1889). After time traveling back to the 6th century, Hank Morgan uses his knowledge of manufacturing to build hidden factories that produce modern (1879) tools and weapons, thus industrializing King Arthur's kingdom. \\ \\ Justified, Justified in that Hank, while something of a drunk and a troublemaker, complains about losing his job as what would now be referred to as an industrial metallurgist and machinist. It is quite realistic that someone with that background and access to early iron-age materials and equipment would not find it terribly hard to produce steam-age technology and reproduce the relatively well-known and simple recipe for gunpowder; especially since he was transported to one of the regions where said technology originated, so he wouldn't exactly be short on raw materials or craftsmen with vaguely relevant expertise.
1st Oct '14 7:16:06 AM Prfnoff
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Namespaces
Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which HenryFord and ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was loosely based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
to:
Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which HenryFord UsefulNotes/HenryFord and ThomasEdison UsefulNotes/ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was loosely based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
27th Jul '14 12:12:02 AM h27kim
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Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which HenryFord and ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
to:
Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which HenryFord and ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was loosely based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
26th Jul '14 6:50:54 AM h27kim
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Added DiffLines:
Not to be confused with ''Camping with Henry and Tom'', a 1995 play by Mark St. Germain in which HenryFord and ThomasEdison are stuck on a road trip together in a Model T, along with President Warren Harding and a Secret Service agent (Which, in turn, was based on real life trips that these men, who were actual friends, took together).
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