History Main / SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers

4th Jan '17 7:10:14 PM KingLyger
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The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune, or it can also be used to demonstrate a character's naivety. It can also meet somewhere in the middle; the character doing the calling-out may be overly idealistic and may be oversimplifying the situation but still has a point, while the cynic may be similarly blind and may also be oversimplifying the situation, but may also have a point about the idealist having an overly sunny view of a truly bad situation. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem or to do something horribly selfish.

to:

The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune, or it can also be used to demonstrate a character's naivety. It can also meet somewhere in the middle; the character doing the calling-out may be overly idealistic and may be oversimplifying the situation but still has a point, while the cynic may be similarly blind and may also be oversimplifying doing the situation, but may also have a point same about the idealist having an overly sunny view of a truly bad situation. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they the cynic use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem or to do something horribly selfish.



* ''Anime/SailorMoon'': Uranus and Neptune can't seem to get through their heads that choosing the more cynical options will only make the end results worse.
** This is especially clear after Usagi became one of the targets of the Death Busters halfway through the third season, which meant Uranus and Neptune may have had to kill her if her pure heart held one of the talismans. After learning of her real identity, Haruka and Michiru haven't yet grasped that they were willing to ''kill'' the very girl whom they are trying to ensure will live long enough to become queen.

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* ''Anime/SailorMoon'': Uranus and Neptune can't seem to get through their heads that choosing the more cynical options will only make the end results worse. \n** This is especially clear after Usagi became one of the targets of the Death Busters halfway through the third season, which meant Uranus and Neptune may have had to kill her if her pure heart held one of the talismans. After learning of her real identity, Haruka and Michiru haven't yet grasped that they were willing to ''kill'' the very girl whom they are trying to ensure will live long enough to become queen.
20th Dec '16 10:29:49 AM HasturHasturHastur
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The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune, or it can also be used to demonstrate a character's naivety. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem or to do something horribly selfish.

to:

The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune, or it can also be used to demonstrate a character's naivety. It can also meet somewhere in the middle; the character doing the calling-out may be overly idealistic and may be oversimplifying the situation but still has a point, while the cynic may be similarly blind and may also be oversimplifying the situation, but may also have a point about the idealist having an overly sunny view of a truly bad situation. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem or to do something horribly selfish.
8th Dec '16 8:26:41 PM ChaoticNovelist
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** This also seems to have been the case for Girard Draketooth, who distrusted paladins to the point where he ''expected'' his paladin friend Soon Kim to break an oath not to investigate other gates and gave him false directions, which ended up biting everyone in the rear since the heroes got their direction's from Soon's successors. Soon, of course, ''never'' broke his oath and made the rest of the order swear never to do so either. Rogue-like types are subject to this, it seems.
*** When you spend your life behind people (either to put a hand in their pocket or a knife in their back), it's only natural you start thinking ''everyone's'' behind your back, waiting to put ''their'' hand in ''your'' pocket, or a knife in ''your'' back.

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** This also seems to have been the case for Girard Draketooth, who distrusted paladins to the point where he ''expected'' his paladin friend Soon Kim to break an oath not to investigate other gates and gave him false directions, which ended up biting everyone in the rear since the heroes got their direction's from Soon's successors. Soon, of course, ''never'' broke his oath and made the rest of the order swear never to do so either. Rogue-like types are subject to this, it seems.
***
seems. [[note]] When you spend your life behind people (either to put a hand in their pocket or a knife in their back), it's only natural you start thinking ''everyone's'' behind your back, waiting to put ''their'' hand in ''your'' pocket, or a knife in ''your'' back.back. This is why Gresky City is a WretchedHive; most of the population is rogues. [[/note]]
3rd Dec '16 4:18:08 AM VoxAquila
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* This is what happens to the dwarves at the end of ''Literature/TheLastBattle'' -- they end up in [[{{Heaven}} Aslan's country]] with everybody else, but they're too cynical to believe it, and manage to delude themselves into believing they're still locked in the dark stable they were thrown into. Even when Aslan makes a feast appear before him, they change it in their minds to the yucky stuff you might find in a stable (hay, donkey water, so on).

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* C. S. Lewis:
**
This is what happens to the dwarves at the end of ''Literature/TheLastBattle'' -- they end up in [[{{Heaven}} Aslan's country]] with everybody else, but they're too cynical to believe it, and manage to delude themselves into believing they're still locked in the dark stable they were thrown into. Even when Aslan makes a feast appear before him, they change it in their minds to the yucky stuff you might find in a stable (hay, donkey water, so on).on).
** The [[SeenItAll Hard-Bitten Ghost]] of ''Literature/TheGreatDivorce'' has lost his ability to enjoy anything, including Heaven, partially because he doesn't trust anything. He is a conspiracy theorist that thinks that every Wonder of the World is the product of a World Combine that's there to extort money out of travelers, and that Heaven and Hell are on the same side, playing a scam on the Ghosts. He is in sight of eternal happiness, but he can't accept it because he's too cynical to believe it exists. The AuthorAvatar, being the kind of person who would generally trust the kind of person the Hard-Bitten Ghost was in life, can't quite shake off the other man's cycism and finds himself asking his (eventual) guide why the people of heaven don't rescue the people of hell. (As it turns out, that's an ability exclusive to {{God}}. Given that the AuthorAvatar himself had arrived in heaven via riding a bus, that raises interesting implications to [[GodWasMyCopilot Who the Driver was]].)



* The [[SeenItAll Hard-Bitten Ghost]] of C.S. Lewis's ''Literature/TheGreatDivorce'' has lost his ability to enjoy anything, including Heaven, partially because he doesn't trust anything. He is a conspiracy theorist that thinks that every Wonder of the World is the product of a World Combine that's there to extort money out of travelers, and that Heaven and Hell are on the same side, playing a scam on the Ghosts. He is in sight of eternal happiness, but he can't accept it because he's too cynical to believe it exists. The AuthorAvatar, being the kind of person who would generally trust the kind of person the Hard-Bitten Ghost was in life, can't quite shake off the other man's cycism and finds himself asking his (eventual) guide why the people of heaven don't rescue the people of hell. (As it turns out, that's an ability exclusive to {{God}}. Given that the AuthorAvatar himself had arrived in heaven via riding a bus, that raises interesting implications to [[GodWasMyCopilot Who the Driver was]].)
2nd Dec '16 11:34:56 AM HasturHasturHastur
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They are wrong. It turns out that their cynical attitude made them turn lazy and waste their philosophical intellect in their lamentations, and missed golden opportunities to make the world a better place due to thinking about themselves in the DespairEventHorizon [[YouCantFightFate for all eternity]], thus proving themselves to be just as blinded and dogmatic as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily questioned out for his {{wangst}}, often by the very people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

This trope is the {{Inver|tedTrope}}sion of SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, showing that being more cynical is not necessarily better. Yes, extreme idealism results in foolishness and is bad, but extreme cynicism results in laziness and is just as bad. This is to show that The SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism does not always stick to one end, but tends to lie somewhere in the middle, and that you need a bit of both to really see the world for what it is. Can be a trait of TheAntiNihilist or the KnightInSourArmor, and used to deconstruct the StrawNihilist mentality.

The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem.

to:

They are wrong. It turns out that their cynical attitude made them turn lazy and selfish and waste their philosophical intellect in their lamentations, and missed golden opportunities to make the world a better place due to thinking about themselves in the DespairEventHorizon [[YouCantFightFate for all eternity]], eternity]] and/or actually made it a worse place by assuming that everyone was out to screw them and thus opted to screw everyone else over first, thus proving themselves to be just as blinded and dogmatic as they '''think''' the more idealistic characters are. He or she is summarily questioned out for his {{wangst}}, often by the very people that he/she had regarded as fools. It can also happen when a character tries too hard to be what they think an adult is, like a PerpetualFrowner.

This trope is the {{Inver|tedTrope}}sion of SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, showing that being more cynical is not necessarily better. Yes, extreme idealism results in foolishness and is bad, but extreme cynicism results in laziness and callousness and is just as bad. This is to show that The SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism does not always stick to one end, but tends to lie somewhere in the middle, and that you need a bit of both to really see the world for what it is. Can be a trait of TheAntiNihilist or the KnightInSourArmor, and used to deconstruct the StrawNihilist mentality.

The argument ''can'' be abused if it's used to stifle legitimate protest, such as when someone justifiably complaining about some social ill is told to [[NoSympathy shut up and stop ruining everyone's fun]] - or, worse yet, ''[[BlameGame blamed]]'' for the misfortune. misfortune, or it can also be used to demonstrate a character's naivety. The dividing line is if, after justifiably complaining, they use the same argument as an excuse to do nothing about the problem.problem or to do something horribly selfish.
27th Nov '16 2:42:06 PM nombretomado
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* This is what happens to the dwarves at the end of ''[[{{Narnia}}The Last Battle]]'' -- they end up in [[{{Heaven}} Aslan's country]] with everybody else, but they're too cynical to believe it, and manage to delude themselves into believing they're still locked in the dark stable they were thrown into. Even when Aslan makes a feast appear before him, they change it in their minds to the yucky stuff you might find in a stable (hay, donkey water, so on).

to:

* This is what happens to the dwarves at the end of ''[[{{Narnia}}The Last Battle]]'' ''Literature/TheLastBattle'' -- they end up in [[{{Heaven}} Aslan's country]] with everybody else, but they're too cynical to believe it, and manage to delude themselves into believing they're still locked in the dark stable they were thrown into. Even when Aslan makes a feast appear before him, they change it in their minds to the yucky stuff you might find in a stable (hay, donkey water, so on).
25th Nov '16 10:09:12 AM KingLyger
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Added DiffLines:

* While ''WebVideo/SomeJerkWithACamera'' tends to mock the Creator/{{Disney}} corporation and [[Ride/DisneyThemeParks their theme parks]], the Jerk tries to do it [[AffectionateParody lightheartedly]], since he's really a fan of Disney. This means that he also comes down hard on works like ''Film/{{Shrek}}'' and ''Film/EscapeFromTomorrow'', which attack Disney as kids' stuff, or say that escapism is for losers who can't grow up.
-->'''Jerk''': Do you know why I review Disneyland? ...It's because I *love* Disneyland! I didn't want to be a hater! I wanted to show the Reviewaverse that you can be entertaining without resorting to constant negative whiny cynicism!
15th Nov '16 8:38:03 PM AnonFangeekGirl
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** By repute, this was also the case for ProperlyParanoid Girard Draketooth. Possibly. Rogue-like types are subject to this, it seems.

to:

** By repute, this was This also seems to have been the case for ProperlyParanoid Girard Draketooth. Possibly.Draketooth, who distrusted paladins to the point where he ''expected'' his paladin friend Soon Kim to break an oath not to investigate other gates and gave him false directions, which ended up biting everyone in the rear since the heroes got their direction's from Soon's successors. Soon, of course, ''never'' broke his oath and made the rest of the order swear never to do so either. Rogue-like types are subject to this, it seems.
3rd Oct '16 7:13:32 PM AdelePotter
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Added DiffLines:

* This is the main message of ''WebVideo/TheVeronicaExclusive''. Veronica's final monologue essentially sums up to, "Yeah, the world sucks, and yeah, people can be terrible -- but that doesn't mean we should all give in and become as horrible as life can be sometimes. If we all work together, things ''can'' get better, and mindless cynicism isn't helping anyone."
3rd Oct '16 9:48:49 AM ErosThanatos
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** Danzo also embodied this mindset. Playing the dark to Sarutobi's light, he was the one behind many things and was quite the WellIntentionedExtremist. Unfortunately, his actions contributed to the StartOfDarkness of Kabuto and Sasuke among other indirect actions. Ultimately, he leaves behind a huge mess for everyone else to clean up while he utterly fails to accomplish anything.

to:

** Danzo also embodied this mindset. Playing the dark to Sarutobi's light, he was the one behind many things and was quite the WellIntentionedExtremist. Unfortunately, his actions contributed to the StartOfDarkness of Nagato, Kabuto and Sasuke among other indirect actions. Ultimately, By the time he was finally killed off, he ultimately leaves behind a huge mess for everyone else to clean up while he utterly fails to accomplish anything.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers