History Main / ScifiGhetto

19th Mar '17 11:44:21 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** It has been claimed that the reason [[ANewHope the first Star Wars movie]] didn't win the Oscar for Best Picture is that the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences are a bunch of artsy snobs who would ''never'' give such a high award to a [turns up nose haughtily] science fiction film. The fact that ''Star Wars'' lost out to ''AnnieHall'' may be evidence of that. (Or it may be evidence that the Academy is absolutely in love with Creator/WoodyAllen and gave the award to ''Annie Hall'' because they wanted Creator/WoodyAllen to win Best Picture for ''something''.)

to:

** It has been claimed that the reason [[ANewHope [[Film/ANewHope the first Star Wars movie]] didn't win the Oscar for Best Picture is that the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences are a bunch of artsy snobs who would ''never'' give such a high award to a [turns up nose haughtily] science fiction film. The fact that ''Star Wars'' lost out to ''AnnieHall'' ''Film/AnnieHall'' may be evidence of that. (Or it may be evidence that the Academy is absolutely in love with Creator/WoodyAllen and gave the award to ''Annie Hall'' because they wanted Creator/WoodyAllen to win Best Picture for ''something''.)
12th Mar '17 12:59:17 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Inverted by a local public library, which had {{Harry Turtledove}}'s ''Guns of the South'' (a novel about time travellers changing the outcome of the US Civil War) classed as "Historical Fiction". The cover shows Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47.

to:

** Inverted by a local public library, which had {{Harry Creator/{{Harry Turtledove}}'s ''Guns of the South'' (a novel about time travellers changing the outcome of the US Civil War) classed as "Historical Fiction". The cover shows Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47.
11th Mar '17 4:02:01 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* If you would like to see desperate literary snobbery coupled with hilarious pretentiousness, why not ask a professor of Shakespeare why the ghosts and witches in ''Theatre/MacBeth'', or the fairies and angels in ''AMidsummerNightsDream'' don't qualify the plays as fantasy?
** Your results may vary - there are some professors who ''do'' believe that ''Theatre/MacBeth'' and ''AMidsummerNightsDream'' are in fact fantasy and do hold them up as an example as to how fantasy ''can'' be literature as well.

to:

* If you would like to see desperate literary snobbery coupled with hilarious pretentiousness, why not ask a professor of Shakespeare why the ghosts and witches in ''Theatre/MacBeth'', or the fairies and angels in ''AMidsummerNightsDream'' ''Theatre/AMidsummerNightsDream'' don't qualify the plays as fantasy?
** Your results may vary - there are some professors who ''do'' believe that ''Theatre/MacBeth'' and ''AMidsummerNightsDream'' ''Theatre/AMidsummerNightsDream'' are in fact fantasy and do hold them up as an example as to how fantasy ''can'' be literature as well.
6th Mar '17 10:20:25 AM PeppermintTwist
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Helene Wecker admits that she fell into this trope herself before eventually defying it with her historical fantasy ''Literature/TheGolemAndTheJinni''. She originally started off writing a straightforward story of immigrants in early 20th century that was pretty bad. She had no idea what was wrong until a friend asked her why she was writing ''that'' way when she was a [[OneOfUs dyed-in-the-wool nerd who cut her teeth writing Doctor Who fanfiction]]. Wecker agreed and changed the story to be a fantasy about supernatural beings, and the book was much better for it.
4th Mar '17 10:58:14 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** He's also said that people from his publishers have told him that they've gone into bookshops and asked why his hugely successful books aren't being displayed in more prominent places. The answers amounted to "We don't like the fantasy to get out." [[note]]This is an author who has been compared to Creator/GeoffreyChaucer, Creator/CharlesDickens and MarkTwain by serious critics.[[/note]]

to:

** He's also said that people from his publishers have told him that they've gone into bookshops and asked why his hugely successful books aren't being displayed in more prominent places. The answers amounted to "We don't like the fantasy to get out." [[note]]This is an author who has been compared to Creator/GeoffreyChaucer, Creator/CharlesDickens and MarkTwain Creator/MarkTwain by serious critics.[[/note]]
2nd Feb '17 2:42:19 PM CheeseDogX
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Inverted by a local public library, which had Harry Turtledove's ''Guns of the South'' (a novel about time travellers changing the outcome of the US Civil War) classed as "Historical Fiction". The cover shows Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47.

to:

** Inverted by a local public library, which had Harry Turtledove's {{Harry Turtledove}}'s ''Guns of the South'' (a novel about time travellers changing the outcome of the US Civil War) classed as "Historical Fiction". The cover shows Robert E. Lee holding an AK-47.
2nd Feb '17 2:16:06 PM CheeseDogX
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Creator/HarlanEllison is willing to admit that he writes speculative fiction, but ''hates'' the term "sci-fi" to the point that he's walked out of interviews on live TV. In Ellison's defense, he has no problem with the phrases "Science Fiction" or "Fantasy", he just hates the specific term "sci fi", because (as he has explained in a couple of rants) "it's dismissive".

to:

* Creator/HarlanEllison is willing to admit that he writes speculative fiction, fiction (he's even attributed with coining the term), but ''hates'' the term "sci-fi" to the point that he's walked out of interviews on live TV. In Ellison's defense, he has no problem with the phrases "Science Fiction" or "Fantasy", he just hates the specific term "sci fi", because (as he has explained in a couple of rants) "it's dismissive".
2nd Feb '17 1:07:47 PM CheeseDogX
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** He even provided a Commentary Track for ''Film/DarkCity'', where he speaks at length on the artistic merits of the movie, from the archetypes and theme to the set design.
5th Jan '17 2:35:07 PM DustSnitch
Is there an issue? Send a Message


So, you're watching television and come across a show that's set on another planet and has aliens, spaceships and time travel in it. Clearly a work of science fiction, you would assume. However, you also happen to come across an interview with the creator, who is taking pains to stress that his or her work is absolutely ''not'' science fiction and anyone who thinks it can be described as such is misguided or just plain wrong. But it has ''aliens, spaceships and TimeTravel in it;'' how can it ''not'' [[NoTrueScotsman be science fiction]]?

Because of the ScifiGhetto. The Sci-Fi Ghetto reflects a long-lasting stigma which has been applied towards the science fiction genre, which frequently leads creators and marketers to shun "Sci-Fi", "Science Fiction" or "Fantasy" labels as much as possible, even on shows that have clear science fiction or fantastical elements. It also reflects the tendency for critics, academics and other creators to near-automatically dismiss or disdain works which cannot escape this label being applied, regardless of relative quality or merit. Conversely, if these critics, creators and academics ''do'' feel that the work possesses merit by their standards, expect them to strenuously insist that the work is ''not'' science fiction or fantasy [[NoTrueScotsman (How could it be? It's ''good'')]], regardless of how many tortuous hoops they might have to jump through in order to do so.

to:

So, you're watching television and come across a show that's set on another planet and has aliens, spaceships and time travel in it. Clearly a work of science fiction, you would assume. However, you also happen to come across an interview with the creator, who is taking pains to stress that his or her work is absolutely ''not'' science fiction and anyone who thinks it can be described as such is misguided or just plain wrong. But it has ''aliens, spaceships and TimeTravel in it;'' how can it ''not'' [[NoTrueScotsman be science fiction]]?

Because of the ScifiGhetto.
The Sci-Fi Ghetto reflects a long-lasting stigma which has been applied towards the science fiction genre, which frequently leads creators and marketers to shun "Sci-Fi", "Science Fiction" or "Fantasy" labels as much as possible, even on shows that have clear science fiction or fantastical elements. It also reflects the tendency for critics, academics and other creators to near-automatically dismiss or disdain works which cannot escape this label being applied, regardless of relative quality or merit. Conversely, if these critics, creators and academics ''do'' feel that the work possesses merit by their standards, expect them to strenuously insist that the work is ''not'' science fiction or fantasy [[NoTrueScotsman (How could it be? It's ''good'')]], regardless of how many tortuous hoops they might have to jump through in order to do so.
3rd Jan '17 2:27:31 PM rjd1922
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It can be said that the best-known author of that kind of "ghetto literature" gave their work a bent that set it apart from others of the same category, often combining it with another, usually entirely different genre. Creator/JRRTolkien's body of work had actually more in common with ancient and medieval mythology (which scholars usually don't dismiss outright as frivolous or unworthy of attention) than modern fantasy, though he pretty much gave birth to that genre. Creator/HPLovecraft gave his horror stories a strong scientific-fictional bent, often writing them in the form of letters, diaries or reports. Creator/JKRowling wrote a story that at that times reads more as a boarding school/coming of age/mystery novel, where the fantasy only offers the framework. Creator/CSLewis wrote children novels that also qualified as allegories. Creator/FrankHerbert's ''Franchise/{{Dune}}'' is set so far in the future that it might as well take place in an entirely different universe, and has strong fantasy elements in it. Creator/RobertAHeinlein included social criticism in his work. Creator/GeorgeOrwell's ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'' and Aldous Huxley's ''Literature/BraveNewWorld'' are more comments on politics and ideology which might have been set in entirely different genres without altering the stories that much (in fact, Orwell pulled that off when writing Literature/AnimalFarm which has a lot in common with 1984, despite being the one in a sci-fi-setting and the other a fable).

to:

* It can be said that the best-known author of that kind of "ghetto literature" gave their work a bent that set it apart from others of the same category, often combining it with another, usually entirely different genre. Creator/JRRTolkien's body of work had actually more in common with ancient and medieval mythology (which scholars usually don't dismiss outright as frivolous or unworthy of attention) than modern fantasy, though he pretty much gave birth to that genre. Creator/HPLovecraft gave his horror stories a strong scientific-fictional bent, often writing them in the form of letters, diaries or reports. Creator/JKRowling wrote a story that at that times reads more as a boarding school/coming of age/mystery novel, where the fantasy only offers the framework. Creator/CSLewis wrote children novels that also qualified as allegories. Creator/FrankHerbert's ''Franchise/{{Dune}}'' is set so far in the future that it might as well take place in an entirely different universe, and has strong fantasy elements in it. Creator/RobertAHeinlein included social criticism in his work. Creator/GeorgeOrwell's ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'' and Aldous Huxley's ''Literature/BraveNewWorld'' are more comments on politics and ideology which might have been set in entirely different genres without altering the stories that much (in fact, Orwell pulled that off when writing Literature/AnimalFarm ''Literature/AnimalFarm'' which has a lot in common with 1984, ''1984'', despite being the one in a sci-fi-setting and the other a fable).
This list shows the last 10 events of 301. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ScifiGhetto