History Main / RuleOfTwo

15th Feb '17 10:27:56 PM tdwally
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Palpatine, for example, deceived his own master into thinking that Darth Maul was simply an assassin, not a true apprentice. The one thing that didn't go according to plan was that Maul was defeated right after Palpatine disposed of his own master...though Palpatine [[XanatosSpeedChess made that work to his advantage]] by recruiting Dooku, who was better suited than Maul had been for the very public role needed in the next phase of the plan.

to:

*** Palpatine, Darth Tenebrous broke the rule by recruiting two apprentices ''and not telling them about each other''. After Darth Plagueis "took over", he was surprised by Darth Venamis, who had learned of him, was better at the use of the lightsaber and had been trained in Plagueis's style. [[spoiler: Plagueis was smarter, imprisoning Venamis and experimenting on him for example, years.]] Venamis compounded the issue by having several potential apprentices lined up himself, even before he had dealt with Tenebrous and Plagueis.
*** After claiming the mantle of Sith Lord from Tenebrous, Plagueis did away with the Rule of Two entirely, seeing no point in raising a successor when his experiments into immortality meant he would live forever. He recanted this to an extent when he met Palpatine and was so impressed with the young man's potential he felt compelled to train him. In his reckoning, though they were two Sith and had no intention of training any others, because the two were going to rule as equal partners (once Palpatine was fully trained) there was no need for a fight for dominance. That said, given he acted like Palpatine's superior even long after his apprentice had become quite powerful, it's clear this was something of a rationalization for him. Palpatine certainly thought so and while killing Plagueis lectured him on the arrogance he had to assume he would be somehow exempt from the constant Sith struggle for power.
*** Palpatine
deceived his own master Plagueis into thinking that Darth Maul was simply an assassin, not a true apprentice. The one thing that didn't go according to plan was that Maul was defeated right after Palpatine disposed of his own master...though Palpatine [[XanatosSpeedChess made that work to his advantage]] by recruiting Dooku, who was better suited than Maul had been for the very public role needed in the next phase of the plan.



*** Darth Tenebrous broke the rule by recruiting two apprentices ''and not telling them about each other''. After Darth Plagueis "took over", he was surprised by Darth Venamis, who had learned of him, was better at the use of the lightsaber and had been trained in Plagueis's style. [[spoiler: Plagueis was smarter, imprisoning Venamis and experimenting on him for years.]] It's possible that Venamis wasn't a "true Sith" though.
17th Jan '17 8:22:12 PM H2SO4
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Since ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels'', has canonized the Imperial Inquisition, they are Dark Side Force-sensitives employed by Darth Vader, but are immune to the Rule of Two because they are not Sith.

to:

** Since ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels'', has canonized the Imperial Inquisition, they are Dark Side Force-sensitives employed by Darth Vader, but are immune to the Rule of Two because they are not Sith. They're purposely trained so as not to reach the Siths' power level as they would run the risk of violating the rule like Asajj Ventress did.
9th Jan '17 12:25:38 AM flodoris
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' there's Kabuto and Orochimaru. And it should be noted that the Akatsuki only move in pairs. Then there were Zabuza and Haku.
** [[spoiler: Madara and Obito could be this due to current events.]]
** [[spoiler: Kaguya and Black Zetsu.]] Although the dynamic isn't really there since [[spoiler:Black Zetsu is the one calling the shots, as [[FlatCharacter Kaguya has absolutely no personality at all]].]]

to:

* In ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' there's Kabuto and Orochimaru. And it should be noted that the Akatsuki only move in pairs. Then there were Zabuza and Haku.
** [[spoiler: [[spoiler:Madara and Obito, started like this but Madara and died shortly thereafter leaving all the work on Obito could be this due to current events.and when Madara revived, they became BigBadDuumvirate.]]
** [[spoiler: Kaguya [[spoiler:Kaguya and Black Zetsu.]] Zetsu. Although the dynamic isn't really there since [[spoiler:Black Zetsu [[DragonInChief Black Zetsu]] is the one calling the shots, as [[FlatCharacter Kaguya has absolutely no personality at all]].]]
7th Jan '17 5:31:31 PM Prometheus117
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Ventress herself had also begun to subvert this rule when she recruited a potential apprentice in the form of [[TheJuggernaut Savage Opress]], at least in part because she was beginning to suspect (rightly) Dooku was planning to betray her eventually, but sent him to Dooku under the guise of "training" as a second apprentice. In the end, Savage betrayed both of them and ran off to find his still-alive-but-not-quite-sane brother Maul, whom he became the ''true'' apprentice of. [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder As can be plainly seen, the Rule of Two at times was more a guideline than a rule]].

to:

*** After said betrayal, Ventress herself had also begun to subvert this rule when she recruited a potential her own apprentice in the form of [[TheJuggernaut Savage Opress]], at least in part because she was beginning to suspect (rightly) Opress]] with the intent of taking revenge on Dooku was planning to betray after her eventually, attempt to do so herself failed, but with the aid of [[TheArchmage Mother Talzin]] sent him to Dooku under the guise of "training" as a second apprentice. new apprentice due to exploiting [[BatmanGambit the paranoia he built up after the failed assassination attempt]]. In the end, however, Savage [[MistreatmentInducedBetrayal betrayed both of them after he got sick of their abuse]] and ran off to find his still-alive-but-not-quite-sane brother Maul, Maul with the aid of [[TheChessmaster Mother Talzin]], whom he became the ''true'' apprentice of. [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder As can be plainly seen, the Rule of Two at times was more a guideline than a rule]].
27th Dec '16 9:59:17 PM Prometheus117
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Ventress herself had also begun to subvert this rule when she recruited a potential apprentice in the form of [[TheJuggernaut Savage Opress]], at least in part because she was beginning to suspect (rightly) Dooku was planning to betray her eventually, but sent him to Dooku under the guise of "training" as a second apprentice. In the end, Savage betrayed both of them and ran off to find his still-alive-but-not-quite-sane brother Maul, whom he became the ''true'' apprentice of. [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder As can be plainly seen, the Rule of Two at times was more a guideline than a rule]].
13th Dec '16 2:25:01 PM AnonFangeekGirl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The origins of this rule are first explained in the ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' novelization, and explored further in ''Literature/DarthBane''. When the Sith order was originally created, it was indeed an order that had many members, but since they were all steeped in the dark side, they had a collective bad case of ChronicBackstabbingDisorder. This tendency to betray each other at the drop of a hat weakened the order to the point where the Jedi (who as light-siders were more unified) were gaining the upper hand. To combat this, Bane decided that there should only be two Sith Lords at one time- a master to have power and an apprentice to covet it. He also decided that they should endeavor to take over the galaxy via subtlety and manipulation (like Palpatine eventually did) instead of outright invasion. [[spoiler: Having made up his mind on this, he manipulates all collectivist Sith Lords into committing mass suicide.]]

to:

** The origins of this rule are first explained in the ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' novelization, and explored further in ''Literature/DarthBane''. When the Sith order was originally created, it was indeed an order that had many members, but since they were all steeped in the dark side, they had a collective bad case of ChronicBackstabbingDisorder. This tendency to betray each other at the drop of a hat weakened the order to the point where the Jedi (who ([[SanityHasAdvantages who as light-siders were more unified) unified]]) were gaining the upper hand. To combat this, Bane decided that there should only be two Sith Lords at one time- a master to have power and an apprentice to covet it. He also decided that they should endeavor to take over the galaxy via subtlety and manipulation (like Palpatine eventually did) instead of outright invasion. [[spoiler: Having made up his mind on this, he manipulates all collectivist Sith Lords into committing mass suicide.]]
1st Nov '16 8:59:55 PM AnonFangeekGirl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The origins of this rule are explained in ''Literature/DarthBane: The Path of Destruction'', where the Sith have become rife with in-fighting due to hordes of individuals claiming the title of "Dark Lord of the Sith" with a leader pretending to be just a first among equals. The Sith philosophy in such a climate can only lead to self-destructive power struggles that serve only to empower their enemies. [[VillainProtagonist Bane]] eventually comes to the conclusion that there should only ever be two Sith Lords at a time: one to hold power, and the other to covet it. Eventually the apprentice should take it by force when they're ready. Furthermore he concludes the Sith should not work for the fall of the Jedi and to conquer the galaxy by armed conflict, but rather subtlety, which Palpatine eventually pulled off. [[spoiler: Having made up his mind on this, ''Darth'' Bane makes sure all the collectivist Sith Lords unintentionally commit collective suicide.]]

to:

** The origins of this rule are first explained in ''Literature/DarthBane: The Path the ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' novelization, and explored further in ''Literature/DarthBane''. When the Sith order was originally created, it was indeed an order that had many members, but since they were all steeped in the dark side, they had a collective bad case of Destruction'', ChronicBackstabbingDisorder. This tendency to betray each other at the drop of a hat weakened the order to the point where the Sith have become rife with in-fighting due to hordes of individuals claiming Jedi (who as light-siders were more unified) were gaining the title of "Dark Lord of the Sith" with a leader pretending to be just a first among equals. The Sith philosophy in such a climate can only lead to self-destructive power struggles that serve only to empower their enemies. [[VillainProtagonist Bane]] eventually comes to the conclusion upper hand. To combat this, Bane decided that there should only ever be two Sith Lords at a time: one time- a master to hold power, have power and the other an apprentice to covet it. Eventually the apprentice He also decided that they should endeavor to take it by force when they're ready. Furthermore he concludes the Sith should not work for the fall of the Jedi and to conquer over the galaxy by armed conflict, but rather subtlety, which via subtlety and manipulation (like Palpatine eventually pulled off. did) instead of outright invasion. [[spoiler: Having made up his mind on this, ''Darth'' Bane makes sure he manipulates all the collectivist Sith Lords unintentionally commit collective into committing mass suicide.]]]]



** Ultimately Darth Bane's philosophy also resulted in the Sith's undoing, as Bane did not take into account [[EvilCannotComprehendGood the possibility that either the master or the apprentice could actually be redeemed]], as evidenced by Darth Vader's RedemptionEqualsDeath and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus' apprentice renouncing the Dark Side of the Force and the Sith shortly after the former's demise. What's worse is that Bane really should have known better. The Sith Lord whose Holocron gave Bane the inspiration for the Rule of Two, Darth Revan, had also renounced the Dark Side, and Bane knew this.

to:

** Ultimately Darth Bane's philosophy philosophy, while it kept the Sith alive in secret for millenia, also resulted in the Sith's order's undoing, as the chain could be easily broken by a factor that Bane did not failed to take into account [[EvilCannotComprehendGood account-[[EvilCannotComprehendGood the possibility that potential redemption of either the master or the apprentice could actually be redeemed]], as evidenced by apprentice]]. Darth Vader's RedemptionEqualsDeath and Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus' apprentice renouncing the Dark Side of the Force and the Sith shortly after the former's demise.demise pretty much spells the end for the Sith Order ''because'' of the RuleOfTwo. What's worse is that Bane really should have known better. The Sith Lord whose Holocron gave Bane the inspiration for the Rule of Two, Darth Revan, had also renounced the Dark Side, and Bane knew this.
9th Sep '16 5:28:47 AM SSJMagus
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Since Series/StarWarsRebels, has canonized the Imperial Inquisition, they are Dark Side Force-sensitives employed by Darth Vader, but are immune to the Rule of Two because they are not Sith.

to:

** Since Series/StarWarsRebels, ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels'', has canonized the Imperial Inquisition, they are Dark Side Force-sensitives employed by Darth Vader, but are immune to the Rule of Two because they are not Sith. Sith.
*** It's revealed in the season 2 finale that despite having immense rage at the Sith Order as a whole for betraying and discarding him, [[spoiler:Maul]] still adheres to this philosophy. And he's looking to corrupt [[TheHero Ezra]] into becoming his apprentice.
10th Jul '16 11:10:46 PM jenniferz11_
Is there an issue? Send a Message


It's usually understood that the two want to keep it that way. Never introduce a third, and quickly replace the other if they go down. Due to infighting or general ForTheEvulz culture, the BigBad may [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness decide to dispose]] of the Dragon himself and get a new one. Similarly the Dragon [[TheUsurper will overthrow]] the BigBad if the opportunity presents itself, and bring on a new Dragon of his own. The tension of this dynamic is that they rely on each other, but both know it's a race to see who will stab who in the back first.

to:

It's usually understood that the two want to keep it that way. Never introduce a third, and quickly replace the other if they go down. Due to infighting or general ForTheEvulz culture, the BigBad may [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness decide to dispose]] of the Dragon {{the Dragon}} himself and get a new one. Similarly the Dragon {{the Dragon}} [[TheUsurper will overthrow]] the BigBad if the opportunity presents itself, and bring on a new Dragon of his own. The tension of this dynamic is that they rely on each other, but both know it's a race to see who will stab who in the back first.
23rd Feb '16 1:18:15 PM AnonFangeekGirl
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Franchise/StarWars'' is the TropeNamer. The Sith have the RuleOfTwo, where there can only be a Sith master and an apprentice - no more, no less - one to possess power and the other to desire it. The mentality is that each Sith Lord teaches one apprentice until they are strong enough to destroy the master and take their place, or until the master kills the apprentice, at which point they will seek out a student of their own. In this manner, each master not only ''becomes'' strong, but must ''stay'' that way to stay alive, and each student must become stronger than their master. Each generation of Sith is stronger than the last, because any weak link in the chain is dead. A master cannot have more than one apprentice, because they may team up to kill their master despite being individually weaker than him, then turn on each other and weaken the Sith Order. In short, ChronicBackstabbingDisorder as a way of life and a code of morality.

to:

* ''Franchise/StarWars'' is the TropeNamer. The Sith have the RuleOfTwo, where there can only be a Sith master and an apprentice - no more, no less - one to possess power and the other to desire it. The mentality idea is that each Sith Lord teaches one apprentice until they are strong enough to destroy the master and take their place, at which point the apprentice will take on a student of his own, or until the master kills the apprentice, at which point they will seek out apprentice and gets a student of their own.new one. In this manner, each master not only ''becomes'' strong, but must ''stay'' that way to stay alive, and each student must become stronger than their master. Each generation of Sith is stronger than the last, because any weak link in the chain is dead. A master cannot have more than one apprentice, because they may team up to kill their master despite being individually weaker than him, then turn on each other and weaken the Sith Order. In short, ChronicBackstabbingDisorder as a way of life and a code of morality.
This list shows the last 10 events of 70. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.RuleOfTwo