History Main / NeverASelfMadeWoman

26th Mar '17 1:23:00 PM nombretomado
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* Similarly, Capcom's ''VideoGame/SengokuBasara'', with its female cast being mostly defined as being someone's wife or lover and [[SatelliteCharacter mostly defining their characters around their respective men]], until [[SubvertedTrope the third game]] introduced Saika Magoichi as a tough, no-nonsense, badass mercenary woman who is highly regarded by the other warlords. [[spoiler:Though the game implies she may have been the protege of the Saika's former (male) leader, who was killed by OdaNobunaga. Which would make her a DoubleSubversion.]] In all honesty though, most notable women from that period in Japan weren't self made, being the wives or daughters of influential men.

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* Similarly, Capcom's ''VideoGame/SengokuBasara'', with its female cast being mostly defined as being someone's wife or lover and [[SatelliteCharacter mostly defining their characters around their respective men]], until [[SubvertedTrope the third game]] introduced Saika Magoichi as a tough, no-nonsense, badass mercenary woman who is highly regarded by the other warlords. [[spoiler:Though the game implies she may have been the protege of the Saika's former (male) leader, who was killed by OdaNobunaga.UsefulNotes/OdaNobunaga. Which would make her a DoubleSubversion.]] In all honesty though, most notable women from that period in Japan weren't self made, being the wives or daughters of influential men.
5th Mar '17 5:48:52 AM Ladyofpayne
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[[folder:Music]]
* "Where did you go to my lovely" and "Last of the Breed" by Music/{{Peter Sarstedt}}is this story but Marie-Claire is a woman.
[[/folder]]
23rd Feb '17 9:27:57 PM jharrison3051
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* Alaskan tropers will remember that Senator Lisa Murkowski got her Senate seat when her father Frank Murkowski left the Senate to become Governor and appointed her as his replacement. In the next election, the voters removed the governor's power to appoint replacement Senators, though they did give her another term in the same election. Then re-elected her ''again'' in the next election, despite her name not even being on the ballot.

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* Alaskan tropers will remember that Senator Lisa Murkowski got her Senate senate seat when her father father, Frank Murkowski Murkowski, left the Senate senate to become Governor governor and appointed her as his replacement. In the next election, the voters removed the governor's power to appoint replacement Senators, senators, though they did give her another term in the same election. Then They re-elected her ''again'' in the next election, despite her name not even being on the ballot.
23rd Feb '17 9:00:00 PM jharrison3051
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* In 1980, Paula Hawkins was elected the the US Senate from Florida, becoming the fifteenth female senator, but the first elected to a full term without a prior family connection in politics.

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* In Of the first fourteen women to serve in the US Senate, many were widows of established politicians. Those who weren't were either appointed to the position or were elected to placeholder, month-long terms. It wasn't until 1980, when Paula Hawkins was elected the the US Senate from Florida, becoming the fifteenth female senator, but the first elected to that a full term woman without a prior family connection in politics.politics was elected to a normal six year term.
23rd Feb '17 8:51:16 PM jharrison3051
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* Hillary Clinton. Say what you will about her, but were she not married to a President, her chances of being elected Senator (in a state she never even lived in), nearly winning the Democratic Presidential nomination, and later being appointed to a prominent cabinet post would've been ''at best'' slightly better than Ralph Nader's, and probably not even ''that'' good. On the other hand, many people in Washington agree that Hillary Clinton herself was instrumental in getting Bill to the top, and might have been biding her time until the public was more ready for a woman in power. When asked what her husband's role would be were she elected president, she responded that she was her own woman. This turned off a lot of people who had hoped her presidency would be a back door for Bill Clinton's third term.

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* Hillary Clinton. Say what you will about her, but were she not married to a President, president, her chances of being elected Senator (in to the US Senate (and in a state she never even lived in), nearly winning the Democratic Presidential presidential nomination, and later being appointed to a prominent cabinet post post, and later becoming the first woman presidential nominee of a major party would've been ''at best'' slightly better than Ralph Nader's, and probably not even ''that'' good. On the other hand, many people in Washington agree that Hillary Clinton herself was instrumental in getting Bill to the top, and might have been biding her time until the public was more ready for a woman in power. When asked what her husband's role would be were she elected president, she responded that she was her own woman. This turned off a lot of people who had hoped her presidency would be a back door for Bill Clinton's third term.


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* In 1980, Paula Hawkins was elected the the US Senate from Florida, becoming the fifteenth female senator, but the first elected to a full term without a prior family connection in politics.
23rd Feb '17 8:31:12 PM jharrison3051
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* Generally speaking, many historical women only ascended to power due to the death of their sons or husbands; "Dowager Empress such and such", that sort of thing.

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* Generally speaking, many historical women only ascended to power due to the death of their sons or husbands; "Dowager Empress such and such", that sort of thing. Among elected offices, [[http://www.vox.com/2016/7/28/12319508/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-dynasty an article in Vox noted]] "a large percentage of women who took their countries’ top jobs had male family members in high office first."
24th Jan '17 8:29:42 AM ChaoticNovelist
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* Generally speaking, many historical women only ascended to power due to the death of their sons or husbands. Until recently, almost everyone's success was family, so naturally female success would be family, and it still is that way in some places.

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* Generally speaking, many historical women only ascended to power due to the death of their sons or husbands. Until recently, almost everyone's success was family, so naturally female success would be family, husbands; "Dowager Empress such and it still is such", that way in some places.sort of thing.



* Subverted by Indira Gandhi, former Prime Minister of India. While she attained her position at least partially because she was the daughter of the influential politician and former Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, she quickly proved to be far more powerful than expected.

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* Subverted Downplayed by Indira Gandhi, former Prime Minister of India. While she attained her position at least partially because she was the daughter of the influential politician and former Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, she quickly proved to be far more powerful than expected.



* It is a simple fact that until quite recently in the West about the only way for a woman to obtain a position of power was through her choice of husband, lover or being daughter, sister, mother of a powerful man. Sexism was ''that'' prevalent. Even now, connections are a hugely influential aspect of job applications, which stacks the deck primarily towards those most like the people already in power.
* Hillary Clinton. Say what you will about her, but were she not married to a President, her chances of being elected Senator (in a state she never even lived in), nearly winning the Democratic Presidential nomination, and later being appointed to a prominent cabinet post would've been ''at best'' slightly better than Ralph Nader's, and probably not even ''that'' good. On the other hand, many people in Washington agree that Hillary Clinton herself was instrumental in getting Bill to the top, and might have been biding her time until the public was more ready for a woman in power.
** When asked what her husband's role would be were she elected president, she responded that she was her own woman. This turned off a lot of people who had hoped her presidency would be a back door for Bill Clinton's third term.
* More than one US state governor used that trick to get around his term limit. The most notorious example is probably George Wallace, who was succeeded after his first term as Governor of Alabama by his wife Lurleen.
** Arguably as important as a state governor: The mayor of Las Vegas (Oscar Goodman) was a much beloved mayor and when he hit his term limit, the city promptly elected his wife mayor by a landslide.
* Alaskan tropers will remember that Senator Lisa Murkowski got her Senate seat when her father Frank Murkowski left the Senate to become Governor and appointed her as his replacement. In the next election, the voters removed the governor's power to appoint replacement Senators, though notably they did give her another term in the same election. Then reelected her ''again'' in the next election, despite her name not even being on the ballot.
* Alaskan tropers will recognize SarahPalin as aversion.

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* It is a simple fact that until quite recently in the West about the only way for a woman to obtain a position of power was through her choice of husband, lover or being daughter, sister, mother of a powerful man. Sexism was ''that'' prevalent. Even now, connections are a hugely influential aspect of job applications, which stacks the deck primarily towards those most like the people already in power.
* Hillary Clinton. Say what you will about her, but were she not married to a President, her chances of being elected Senator (in a state she never even lived in), nearly winning the Democratic Presidential nomination, and later being appointed to a prominent cabinet post would've been ''at best'' slightly better than Ralph Nader's, and probably not even ''that'' good. On the other hand, many people in Washington agree that Hillary Clinton herself was instrumental in getting Bill to the top, and might have been biding her time until the public was more ready for a woman in power.
**
power. When asked what her husband's role would be were she elected president, she responded that she was her own woman. This turned off a lot of people who had hoped her presidency would be a back door for Bill Clinton's third term.
* More than one US state governor used that trick the "back door candidate" method to get around his the term limit. The most notorious example is probably George Wallace, who was succeeded after his first term as Governor of Alabama by his wife Lurleen.
** Arguably as important as a state governor: * The mayor of Las Vegas (Oscar Goodman) was a much beloved mayor and when he hit his term limit, so the city promptly elected his wife mayor by a landslide.
* Alaskan tropers will remember that Senator Lisa Murkowski got her Senate seat when her father Frank Murkowski left the Senate to become Governor and appointed her as his replacement. In the next election, the voters removed the governor's power to appoint replacement Senators, though notably they did give her another term in the same election. Then reelected re-elected her ''again'' in the next election, despite her name not even being on the ballot.
* %%* Alaskan tropers will recognize SarahPalin as aversion.



* Some detractors of ''Film/LostInTranslation'' liked to imply this about Creator/SofiaCoppola, suggesting that her father had somehow pushed the movie to success. Which might make sense if her brother Roman's movie ''CQ'' had experienced the same kind of success.
** There's an article where a movie critic related how, when talking about Sofia Coppola to industry insiders, they always blame Coppola solely for her failures, but attribute any success she has to either her father or the male actors/producers/etc. she was working with.
*** This is similar to the unfounded rumors that Music/KurtCobain wrote Hole's album ''Live Through This'', because some people can't seem to accept that Courtney Love might be responsible for her own success in music.

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* Some detractors of ''Film/LostInTranslation'' liked to imply this about Creator/SofiaCoppola, suggesting that her father had somehow pushed the movie to success. Which might make sense if her brother Roman's movie ''CQ'' had experienced the same kind of success.
**
success. There's an article where a movie critic related how, when talking about Sofia Coppola to industry insiders, they always blame Coppola solely for her failures, but attribute any success she has to either her father or the male actors/producers/etc. she was working with.
*** This is similar to the * There are unfounded rumors that Music/KurtCobain wrote Hole's album ''Live Through This'', because some people can't seem to accept that Courtney Love might be responsible for her own success in music.



* Up until relatively recently, female artists who achieved any sort of fame in their day usually were taught by their fathers. This was certainly true in the Renaissance: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_Gentileschi Artemisia Gentileschi]] is a good example. As a bonus, compare how big her article is to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orazio_Gentileschi her father's.]]
* Subverted historically by women whose success was attributed to their male relatives or husbands. Mary Shelley, for example, whose [[Literature/{{Frankenstein}} novel]] was published with no stated author, but it had a preface by her husband, so most people assumed that he wrote the whole book. And then the sales of the book dropped dramatically when its true author was made public, and Mary was widely criticized for writing about such an "unfeminine" subject matter. [[VindicatedByHistory It would be decades before the book was judged by its own merits, rather than by who wrote it]].

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* Up until relatively recently, Pre-modern times, female artists who achieved any sort of fame in their day usually were taught by their fathers. This was certainly true in the Renaissance: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_Gentileschi Artemisia Gentileschi]] is a good example. As a bonus, compare how big her article is to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orazio_Gentileschi her father's.]]
* Subverted historically by women whose success was attributed to their male relatives or husbands. Mary Shelley, for example, whose [[Literature/{{Frankenstein}} novel]] was published with no stated author, but it had a preface by her husband, so most people assumed that he wrote the whole book. And then Then the sales of the book dropped dramatically when its true author was made public, and Mary was widely criticized for writing about such an "unfeminine" subject matter. [[VindicatedByHistory It would be decades before the book was judged by its own merits, rather than by who wrote it]].
24th Jan '17 8:03:36 AM ChaoticNovelist
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The author or the characters have to choose who gets to join in on the hijinks or know the secrets; chances are, because MostAuthorsAreMale, most of the people they choose are going to be men. Women who join in are most commonly there as a "bonus" to someone else, often as a love interest or a family member. She's usually someone's sister, girlfriend or love interest. If she's a military or political leader of some sort, then you can bet that she got the position with help from her father or another male relative.

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The author or the characters have to choose who gets to join in on the hijinks or know the secrets; chances are, because MostAuthorsAreMale, MostWritersAreMale, most of the people they choose are going to be men. Women who join in are most commonly there as a "bonus" to someone else, often as a love interest or a family member. She's usually someone's sister, girlfriend or love interest. If she's a military or political leader of some sort, then you can bet that she got the position with help from her father or another male relative.
24th Jan '17 7:47:05 AM ChaoticNovelist
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This is a subtrope of TheSmurfettePrinciple:

''In a cast [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters with many characters]] or a FiveManBand, there is a tendency to give any female character of importance a male character to thank for her position.''

If she's TheChick in the team, then she's usually someone's sister, girlfriend or love interest. If she's a military or political leader of some sort, then you can bet that she got the position with help from her father or another male relative. The author or the characters have to choose who gets to join in on the hijinks or know the secrets; chances are, most of the people they choose are going to be men. Women who join in are most commonly there as a "bonus" to someone else, often as a love interest or a family member.

There are shades to this. We may have the ActionGirl who has achieved a lot and gone up in society, but whenever her background is brought up, it is always a man in her family (father, uncle, older brother or husband) who is prominent as her predecessor or a key to her success. It will be strongly implied that she would never have gotten into this Business if she hadn't been motivated and trained by her powerful male relatives who [[DungeonmastersGirlfriend are active on the same field]]. In short, a personal, emotional relationship with a mentor is needed, not just a professional one driven by her own independent ambitions. She might have grown into her own badassery, but the story will continue to define her as the more important male character's apprentice or heiress.

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This is a subtrope of TheSmurfettePrinciple:

''In a cast [[LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters with many characters]] or a FiveManBand, there is a tendency to give any female character of importance a male character to thank for her position.''

If she's TheChick in The author or the team, then she's characters have to choose who gets to join in on the hijinks or know the secrets; chances are, because MostAuthorsAreMale, most of the people they choose are going to be men. Women who join in are most commonly there as a "bonus" to someone else, often as a love interest or a family member. She's usually someone's sister, girlfriend or love interest. If she's a military or political leader of some sort, then you can bet that she got the position with help from her father or another male relative. The author or the characters have to choose who gets to join in on the hijinks or know the secrets; chances are, most of the people they choose are going to be men. Women who join in are most commonly there as a "bonus" to someone else, often as a love interest or a family member.\n\n

There are shades to this. We may have the ActionGirl woman who has achieved a lot in her field (whatever it may be) and gone up in society, but whenever her background is brought up, it is always a man in her family (father, uncle, older brother or husband) who is prominent as her predecessor or a key to her success. It will be strongly implied that she would never have gotten into this Business if she hadn't been motivated and trained by her powerful male relatives who [[DungeonmastersGirlfriend are active on the same field]]. In short, a personal, emotional relationship with a mentor is needed, not just a professional one driven by her own independent ambitions. She might have grown into her own badassery, but the story will continue to define her as the more important male character's apprentice or heiress.



!!Please note that this trope is more subtle than DungeonmastersGirlfriend and other similar tropes. Chances are that most of the examples here do get some credit for being {{Action Girl}}s; that doesn't negate that their fathers, boyfriends, etc. are more important than they are.

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!!Please note that this trope is more subtle than DungeonmastersGirlfriend and other similar tropes. Chances are that most of the examples here do get some credit for being {{Action Girl}}s; their accomplishments; that doesn't negate that their fathers, boyfriends, etc. are more important than they are.



* In the original ''Manga/YuGiOh'', Shizuka's only real part to play was Jonouchi's helpless blind or captive sister. She also owes her part in the show to the fact that the love triangle between her, Honda and Otogi is played for laughs.

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* In the original ''Manga/YuGiOh'', ''Manga/YuGiOh'',
**
Shizuka's only real part to play was Jonouchi's helpless blind or captive sister. She also owes her part in the show to the fact that the love triangle between her, Honda and Otogi is played for laughs.
12th Jan '17 9:18:54 AM fearlessnikki
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[[folder:Professional Wrestling]]
* Played with when it comes to the daughters of WWE legends. Expect commentators to go on and on about this and compare them to their fathers. But they also do the same for the ''sons'' of legends. It remains to be seen if they'll do the same when the child of a female WWE legend steps into the ring.
* Invoked by the Wrestling/BellaTwins, who credit their respective partners - Daniel Bryan for Brie, John Cena for Nikki - for teaching them more about wrestling than they had ever known before. Nikki however refuted this in a 2016 rivalry with {{Wrestling/Carmella}}, assuring the newcomer that she still earned all her achievements in spite of who her boyfriend was.
* A rare GenderFlip came with Tyson Kidd and Natalya. Due to the latter's success with ''Series/TotalDivas'', a storyline was started where he resented everyone comparing him to his wife's success.
* In general if a female wrestler starts a kayfabe relationship with a male, expect the commentators to attribute their subsequent matches to their boyfriends teaching them.
* A lot of WWE fans like to attribute the success of the women's division in the Ruthless Aggression Era entirely to Fit Finlay - who was their trainer. While he always was known for lobbying for the women to get more time for matches and helped many of them tap into their potential - it's often forgotten that the division still contained veterans like {{Wrestling/Ivory}}, {{Wrestling/Jacqueline}}, Wrestling/CarleneMoore and Wrestling/MollyHolly who were more than capable of putting a match together as well.
* In a similar vein, Triple H sometimes gets a lot of the credit for the success of the Four Horsewomen in NXT. While he oversaw the good booking that led to them getting more match times, by all accounts it was the hard work of Wrestling/SashaBanks, Wrestling/BeckyLynch, {{Wrestling/Bayley}} and {{Wrestling/Charlotte}} that even convinced him to do so in the first place.
[[/folder]]


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* [[http://www.cosmopolitan.com/health-fitness/news/a62634/sexist-moments-2016-rio-olympics/ Noted]] about how numerous commentators attributed the success of female athletes to their male coaches or husbands. Simone Biles likewise defied this trope, saying "I'm not the next Usain Bolt or Michael Phelps; I'm the first Simone Biles!"
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