History Main / Minmaxing

10th Apr '17 10:47:36 PM ArcaneAzmadi
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Of course, this actually can turn into a problem for people who have SuperOCD, for whom being a perfectionist (to the point that it obstructs their ability to get their work done in a timely manner because they get hung up on trivial minutiae) ''is'' actually their biggest weakness.
2nd Apr '17 11:36:22 PM Jice_Wumpkin
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''Almost'' averted in Fallout 4. High Intelligence is still really useful but simulated with a early level Luck perk, and there's generally no StatToRuleThemAll. MinMaxing is still very powerful as level 10 perks are generally VERY useful, but will be countered by equally huge disadvantages.

to:

** ''Almost'' averted in Fallout 4. High Intelligence is still really useful but simulated with a early level Luck perk, and there's generally no StatToRuleThemAll.OneStatToRuleThemAll. MinMaxing is still very powerful as level 10 perks are generally VERY useful, but will be countered by equally huge disadvantages.



* In ''StarWars: KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', you can gain extra Jedi levels by refusing to level up your non-Jedi class in the first fifth of the game. Taken to the extreme, you could delay taking all but level 2 (forced on you by the introductory tutorial mission) until becoming a Jedi, thus gaining 18 Jedi levels by the end of the game instead of the normal 10/10 split.\\\
This was difficult with more than one or two levels shifted, though, because, as you approached the "expected to be level 10-ish" areas, you had to rely more on the support friends, who were not really up to the task, especially on hard. Having the actually inadequate Bastila-as-lead dragging around a level 2 piece of tissue paper is quite the experience.

to:

* In ''StarWars: KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', you can gain extra Jedi levels by refusing to level up your non-Jedi class in the first fifth of the game. Taken to the extreme, you could delay taking all but level 2 (forced on you by the introductory tutorial mission) until becoming a Jedi, thus gaining 18 Jedi levels by the end of the game instead of the normal 10/10 split.\\\
split.
**
This was difficult with more than one or two levels shifted, though, because, as you approached the "expected to be level 10-ish" areas, you had to rely more on the support friends, who were not really up to the task, especially on hard. Having the actually inadequate Bastila-as-lead dragging around a level 2 piece of tissue paper is quite the experience.
2nd Apr '17 4:43:52 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Nippon Ichi games are built around minmaxing. In most games, you can min-max your character's base stats through Reincarnation (returning to level 1 with all of the stat bonuses accumulated through your original class' lifespan and, if you're not a named character, go into a class with better stat growths). You can min-max your weapons, armor, and accessories. In PhantomBrave, you can even min-max dungeons and titles (that give out extra statistical benefits).

to:

* Nippon Ichi games are built around minmaxing. In most games, you can min-max your character's base stats through Reincarnation (returning to level 1 with all of the stat bonuses accumulated through your original class' lifespan and, if you're not a named character, go into a class with better stat growths). You can min-max your weapons, armor, and accessories. In PhantomBrave, ''VideoGame/PhantomBrave'', you can even min-max dungeons and titles (that give out extra statistical benefits).
27th Mar '17 2:10:58 PM Willbyr
Is there an issue? Send a Message





* Nodoka of ''MahouSenseiNegima'' starts doing this after joining an adventuring party, gathering a collection of seemingly useless magic items which synergise extremely well with her artefact. To be specific, her artefact is a large book which displays someone's thoughts if Nodoka knows their name. One of the items tells her the name of anything she points at and another is an earpiece which reads the book for her while it's in her backpack (allowing her to make use of it in combat). This combination gives her ''de facto'' telepathy.

to:

* Nodoka of ''MahouSenseiNegima'' ''Manga/MahouSenseiNegima'' starts doing this after joining an adventuring party, gathering a collection of seemingly useless magic items which synergise extremely well with her artefact. To be specific, her artefact is a large book which displays someone's thoughts if Nodoka knows their name. One of the items tells her the name of anything she points at and another is an earpiece which reads the book for her while it's in her backpack (allowing her to make use of it in combat). This combination gives her ''de facto'' telepathy.



** In the older versions of MapleStory, the INT stat dictated the amount of MP gained for each level or AP point placed into MP. This MP could be transferred to HP by spending real-world money on AP resets. What this meant was that all classes could gain more HP than normal by adding or equipping INT, accumulating extra MP, and transferring it into HP. Though this method, called HP washing, was ridiculously expensive and would make a character much weaker for a while, it was the only way for certain classes to survive high-level boss fights.

to:

** In the older versions of MapleStory, ''[=MapleStory=]'', the INT stat dictated the amount of MP gained for each level or AP point placed into MP. This MP could be transferred to HP by spending real-world money on AP resets. What this meant was that all classes could gain more HP than normal by adding or equipping INT, accumulating extra MP, and transferring it into HP. Though this method, called HP washing, was ridiculously expensive and would make a character much weaker for a while, it was the only way for certain classes to survive high-level boss fights.



* ''VideoGame/{{Diablo}} 2'' is pretty much an exercise in minmaxing. Every build has optimal stat and skill placement and item choices. Deviating from the build in any way, or heaven forbid trying to make something unique or using whatever equipment you pick up off the ground, ensures that you will have to use effort to get through [[HarderThanHard hell difficulty]]. Furthermore, minmaxing extends to the items as well as characters. Getting items with stats that are perfect or near perfect cost many times more than the going rate, even if the difference is only a 1%.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Diablo}} 2'' ''VideoGame/DiabloII'' is pretty much an exercise in minmaxing. Every build has optimal stat and skill placement and item choices. Deviating from the build in any way, or heaven forbid trying to make something unique or using whatever equipment you pick up off the ground, ensures that you will have to use effort to get through [[HarderThanHard hell difficulty]]. Furthermore, minmaxing extends to the items as well as characters. Getting items with stats that are perfect or near perfect cost many times more than the going rate, even if the difference is only a 1%.
24th Jan '17 11:35:42 PM Deathhacker
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** This actually spawned two terms within the fandom (that has since bled into various other wargames as well): "Taxes" and "Target Saturation". The former refers to units that you must take in order for your army to be considered legal; traditionally this was the minimum 1 HQ choice and 2 Troop Choices (which is why good units in those slots are often the most spammed and came at a premium). The reason for the name was because they're often chewing up huge chunks of points that could have otherwise gone to more useful units. With the advent of formations and unbound, people min-maxing their armies have come up with entire spreadsheets of ways to minimize Tax units. Unfortunately part of the balance issue with the current game is that these units were explicitly used to chew up points in an army to balance out the otherwise extremely powerful abilities of other units (A tactical squad and a devastator squad are mechanically identical, except the latter can take four times the heavy and special weapons the former can take and without restrictions on squad sizes either, but the tactical squad is a troop choice and thus manditory). On the other end of the spectrum is "Target Saturation", which means taking duplicates of a single, cost-effective and useful unit in multiples; the idea is that while one or two of them would be killed pretty early on, as long as one of them survives and deals some damage, it justifies taking all of them. If little to none of them die, then it's an even bigger bonus. One of the most infamous cases of this is the Eldar "Scatbike" (A scatter-laser equipped Jetbike); on top of being Troops (and thus bypasses "the tax") it's functionally a bike mounted with a heavy machine gun capable of mowing down heavy infantry and light tanks...in a game dominated by heavy infantry and light tanks which are slower than bikes. While putting one down within a turn or two of shooting isn't much of an issue, their low cost means that you can feasibly bring a ''few dozen'' of them to a match.
30th Dec '16 1:27:15 PM Valen
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Taken to hilarious extremes in Bloodborne's precursor, ''VideoGame/DarkSouls''. Wearing heavy armor grants you poise, the ability to take advantage of hyper armor and not flinch from enemy attacks. Heavier armor grants more poise, letting you [[MightyGlacier tank hits from Zweihanders without budging]] at higher values, with the downside being that heavier armor slows your stamina recovery and makes dodging attacks harder since you're encumbered by the weight. Endurance, the stat governing equipment load (how much weight you can bear before you start to feel the effects) and maximum stamina, stops granting more stamina at 40, but it keeps giving you higher equip load all the way up to 99. One common strategy is to find a weapon that has high base damage but low stat scaling, so you can keep your Strength and Dexterity low while putting all of your points into Endurance to crank up your equip load. With the right rings, [[LightningBruiser you can ninja flip around the battlefield with a greatsword and armor carved from rock]].
24th Dec '16 11:40:04 AM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''{{Arcanum}}'''s PointBuildSystem allows for a lot of flexibility when designing characters, so minmaxing is inevitable.

to:

* ''{{Arcanum}}'''s ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'''s PointBuildSystem allows for a lot of flexibility when designing characters, so minmaxing is inevitable.
6th Dec '16 7:18:30 AM MadSpy
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Of course, even if the DM was inclined to allow it, that build only works in Forgotten Realms and only if you can somehow justify having encountered the creature who's abilities you're trying to copy (its a single unique creature who only exists in that world). Also, this creature was introduced in an obscure supplement such that if this one player hadn't found the exploit, the book would be mostly forgotten.

to:

*** Of course, even if the DM was inclined to allow it, that build only works in Forgotten Realms and only if you can somehow justify having encountered the creature who's whose abilities you're trying to copy (its a single unique creature who only exists in that world). Also, this creature was introduced in an obscure supplement such that if this one player hadn't found the exploit, the book would be mostly forgotten.
4th Dec '16 11:48:06 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Spiked Chains were once thought to be nearly mandatory for optimized Fighter builds. This is not because they are a {{Badass}} [[ImprobableWeaponUser Improbable Weapon User's]] dream. It's because they are mechanically superior to almost any other melee weapon, with special properties that make them well-suited to a range of effective melee strategies... [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards of which there are few to begin with]]. It has since been realized that charging or pouncing (charging but with a jump included) are far superior, and since spike chains aren't useful for this sort of strategy, they have been dropped in favor of weapons better suited for those tactics.

to:

** Spiked Chains were once thought to be nearly mandatory for optimized Fighter builds. This is not because they are a {{Badass}} badass [[ImprobableWeaponUser Improbable Weapon User's]] dream. It's because they are mechanically superior to almost any other melee weapon, with special properties that make them well-suited to a range of effective melee strategies... [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards of which there are few to begin with]]. It has since been realized that charging or pouncing (charging but with a jump included) are far superior, and since spike chains aren't useful for this sort of strategy, they have been dropped in favor of weapons better suited for those tactics.
27th Nov '16 4:38:19 PM flarn2006
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'' Adventurer Mode recently added the ability to adjust physical/mental attributes during character creation; since most of the attributes have no effect whatsoever in Adventurer mode, it is common to drop them all to minimum to permit boosting important attributes even higher.

to:

* ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'' Adventurer Mode recently added the ability to adjust physical/mental attributes during character creation; since most of the attributes have no effect whatsoever in Adventurer mode, mode (as the game is under constant development), it is common to drop them all to minimum to permit boosting important attributes even higher.
This list shows the last 10 events of 121. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.Minmaxing