History Main / Minmaxing

30th Dec '16 1:27:15 PM Valen
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* Taken to hilarious extremes in Bloodborne's precursor, ''VideoGame/DarkSouls''. Wearing heavy armor grants you poise, the ability to take advantage of hyper armor and not flinch from enemy attacks. Heavier armor grants more poise, letting you [[MightyGlacier tank hits from Zweihanders without budging]] at higher values, with the downside being that heavier armor slows your stamina recovery and makes dodging attacks harder since you're encumbered by the weight. Endurance, the stat governing equipment load (how much weight you can bear before you start to feel the effects) and maximum stamina, stops granting more stamina at 40, but it keeps giving you higher equip load all the way up to 99. One common strategy is to find a weapon that has high base damage but low stat scaling, so you can keep your Strength and Dexterity low while putting all of your points into Endurance to crank up your equip load. With the right rings, [[LightningBruiser you can ninja flip around the battlefield with a greatsword and armor carved from rock]].
24th Dec '16 11:40:04 AM nombretomado
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* ''{{Arcanum}}'''s PointBuildSystem allows for a lot of flexibility when designing characters, so minmaxing is inevitable.

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* ''{{Arcanum}}'''s ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'''s PointBuildSystem allows for a lot of flexibility when designing characters, so minmaxing is inevitable.
6th Dec '16 7:18:30 AM MadSpy
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*** Of course, even if the DM was inclined to allow it, that build only works in Forgotten Realms and only if you can somehow justify having encountered the creature who's abilities you're trying to copy (its a single unique creature who only exists in that world). Also, this creature was introduced in an obscure supplement such that if this one player hadn't found the exploit, the book would be mostly forgotten.

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*** Of course, even if the DM was inclined to allow it, that build only works in Forgotten Realms and only if you can somehow justify having encountered the creature who's whose abilities you're trying to copy (its a single unique creature who only exists in that world). Also, this creature was introduced in an obscure supplement such that if this one player hadn't found the exploit, the book would be mostly forgotten.
4th Dec '16 11:48:06 AM Morgenthaler
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** Spiked Chains were once thought to be nearly mandatory for optimized Fighter builds. This is not because they are a {{Badass}} [[ImprobableWeaponUser Improbable Weapon User's]] dream. It's because they are mechanically superior to almost any other melee weapon, with special properties that make them well-suited to a range of effective melee strategies... [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards of which there are few to begin with]]. It has since been realized that charging or pouncing (charging but with a jump included) are far superior, and since spike chains aren't useful for this sort of strategy, they have been dropped in favor of weapons better suited for those tactics.

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** Spiked Chains were once thought to be nearly mandatory for optimized Fighter builds. This is not because they are a {{Badass}} badass [[ImprobableWeaponUser Improbable Weapon User's]] dream. It's because they are mechanically superior to almost any other melee weapon, with special properties that make them well-suited to a range of effective melee strategies... [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards of which there are few to begin with]]. It has since been realized that charging or pouncing (charging but with a jump included) are far superior, and since spike chains aren't useful for this sort of strategy, they have been dropped in favor of weapons better suited for those tactics.
27th Nov '16 4:38:19 PM flarn2006
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* ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'' Adventurer Mode recently added the ability to adjust physical/mental attributes during character creation; since most of the attributes have no effect whatsoever in Adventurer mode, it is common to drop them all to minimum to permit boosting important attributes even higher.

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* ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'' Adventurer Mode recently added the ability to adjust physical/mental attributes during character creation; since most of the attributes have no effect whatsoever in Adventurer mode, mode (as the game is under constant development), it is common to drop them all to minimum to permit boosting important attributes even higher.
18th Nov '16 10:24:48 PM ironcommando
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** Almost every single [[spoiler:Ultra Beast]] has one to two stats that are ''extremely'' high, while having a few {{Dump Stat}}s.
30th Oct '16 10:16:30 AM nombretomado
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* ''{{GURPS}}'' is very easy to Min-Max in unless the GM sets firm limits on what options are available to the players. Characters are also theoretically balanced by their point total, but this is only really true in fairly narrow circumstances.
** One of the specific ways to min-max in ''{{GURPS}}'' is by balancing the points spent on IQ with the points spent on IQ-based skills. (The same principles apply to DX-based skills.) A +1 to IQ typically costs 10 to 20 points (depending on edition and the exact number involved), and will also raise your IQ-based skills by +1. Paying to raise all those skills individually by +1 could cost lots more. Optimizing this way was so standard that an "optimize" button was built into the official character-building computer program.

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* ''{{GURPS}}'' ''TabletopGame/{{GURPS}}'' is very easy to Min-Max in unless the GM sets firm limits on what options are available to the players. Characters are also theoretically balanced by their point total, but this is only really true in fairly narrow circumstances.
** One of the specific ways to min-max in ''{{GURPS}}'' ''GURPS'' is by balancing the points spent on IQ with the points spent on IQ-based skills. (The same principles apply to DX-based skills.) A +1 to IQ typically costs 10 to 20 points (depending on edition and the exact number involved), and will also raise your IQ-based skills by +1. Paying to raise all those skills individually by +1 could cost lots more. Optimizing this way was so standard that an "optimize" button was built into the official character-building computer program.
16th Oct '16 4:48:50 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''MutantsAndMasterminds'', being a point-based tabletop RPG, is very easy to min-max. However, the creators seem to realize this and go out of their way to point out potential abuses and give advice for [=GMs=] to deal with problem players ("don't let [=PCs=] take this" is one such piece of advice). This is, after all, a game where one of the official variants is ''unlimited'' points to buy abilities -- as in the only limit is what the player thinks is reasonable.

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* ''MutantsAndMasterminds'', ''TabletopGame/MutantsAndMasterminds'', being a point-based tabletop RPG, is very easy to min-max. However, the creators seem to realize this and go out of their way to point out potential abuses and give advice for [=GMs=] to deal with problem players ("don't let [=PCs=] take this" is one such piece of advice). This is, after all, a game where one of the official variants is ''unlimited'' points to buy abilities -- as in the only limit is what the player thinks is reasonable.



* HEROSystem[=/=]''{{Champions}}'' has pretty much the same situation. A GameMaster who's willing to veto really game-breaking characters is essential in such cases. It's notable that the game manual itself anticipates min-maxing and provides a few examples of character builds that illustrate the point -- for example, N-man, who sits at the centre of the universe and does nothing but gibber. He sees what he wants with his n-ray vision from lightyears away and blasts it.
** ''{{Champions}}'', especially 4th edition, is ''legendary'' among min-maxers for what could be done. Among other things, a flaw in the way Aid (the generic term for any power that augments or repairs another) was implemented allowed one min-maxer to use 175 points to give ''everything'' he had, including a Variable Power Pool, ten times that. Just as a way of explanation, an area of effect Ranged Killing Attack at that level could destroy something on the order of 2 times 10^20 UNIVERSES or so, and horribly damage ones far beyond that.

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* HEROSystem[=/=]''{{Champions}}'' TabletopGame/HEROSystem[=/=]''TabletopGame/{{Champions}}'' has pretty much the same situation. A GameMaster who's willing to veto really game-breaking characters is essential in such cases. It's notable that the game manual itself anticipates min-maxing and provides a few examples of character builds that illustrate the point -- for example, N-man, who sits at the centre of the universe and does nothing but gibber. He sees what he wants with his n-ray vision from lightyears away and blasts it.
** ''{{Champions}}'', ''TabletopGame/{{Champions}}'', especially 4th edition, is ''legendary'' among min-maxers for what could be done. Among other things, a flaw in the way Aid (the generic term for any power that augments or repairs another) was implemented allowed one min-maxer to use 175 points to give ''everything'' he had, including a Variable Power Pool, ten times that. Just as a way of explanation, an area of effect Ranged Killing Attack at that level could destroy something on the order of 2 times 10^20 UNIVERSES or so, and horribly damage ones far beyond that.
22nd Sep '16 10:00:20 PM chc232323
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** Subverted: any hiring manager with a week's experience has met enough people whose biggest weakness is "I'm a perfectionist" or "I work too hard" that they will immediately decode your response. What you've really just said is, "One of my weaknesses is I am so full of crap that I think everyone else (including the hiring manager of this company) is too stupid to see through this. I have other weaknesses I'm not discussing." Consider revealing a genuine (but not crippling) weakness and how you have taken steps to confront it. "I sometimes get overwhelmed when four or five tasks are given to me at once, and sometimes I'll forget one. So I carry around a notepad to write them down and use it like a to-do list to make sure I don't make mistakes." Having a weakness and developing counters to prevent it from being exploited is very min-maxy indeed.
22nd Sep '16 9:37:51 PM chc232323
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* More iterations in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' than you can count, and that the designers have spent literally decades trying to balance, such as:

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* More iterations in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' than you can count, and that the designers have spent literally decades trying to balance, such as:balance. It is best to say when the Min-Maxing build was in effect, since many examples will not make sense to newer players. Examples include:


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** Seventh edition has seen Eldar players spam Wraithguard, a unit that is tough to kill and can put down templates of Strength D weapons. What does this mean? The unit has an attack that never misses, can strike multiple enemies, and inflicts shockingly high damage on anything that it hits as long as you don't roll a 1 on a six-sided dice. Strength D weapons instantly kill most infantry and almost always damage vehicles. Their only weaknesses are being vulnerable to big blast templates, short range, and being unable to hit fliers.
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