History Main / MedievalMorons

6th Sep '16 2:40:36 AM Morgenthaler
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** The ByzantineEmpire allowed its citizens great freedom, equality, and opportunity for education and advancement thanks to its first Empress [[RagsToRoyalty who began life as a foreign born commoner]] and ended life as half of a RulingCouple. It also preserved and expanded the Musaeum of Alexandria,[[note]]The library of Alexandria and several related universities and institutions[[/note]] and advanced science and engineering to surprising levels[[note]]Their military, for instance, deployed advanced weaponry like flamethrowers and ship-mounted ballistae. Constantinople had public sanitation and proper sewer and water systems. The Hagia Sophia was the largest freestanding domed structure on Earth until the construction of the ''Astrodome in the modern era''.[[/note]] before political decay and the encroachment of neighboring empires led to its own collapse.

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** The ByzantineEmpire UsefulNotes/ByzantineEmpire allowed its citizens great freedom, equality, and opportunity for education and advancement thanks to its first Empress [[RagsToRoyalty who began life as a foreign born commoner]] and ended life as half of a RulingCouple. It also preserved and expanded the Musaeum of Alexandria,[[note]]The library of Alexandria and several related universities and institutions[[/note]] and advanced science and engineering to surprising levels[[note]]Their military, for instance, deployed advanced weaponry like flamethrowers and ship-mounted ballistae. Constantinople had public sanitation and proper sewer and water systems. The Hagia Sophia was the largest freestanding domed structure on Earth until the construction of the ''Astrodome in the modern era''.[[/note]] before political decay and the encroachment of neighboring empires led to its own collapse.
31st Aug '16 8:12:06 PM VanHohenheimOfXerxes
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Occasionally people living in [[OldShame another widely disliked time]] will get this depiction. [[TheWildWest Nineteenth-century frontier America]] and [[TheFifties the 1950s]] have long been favorite targets, and increasingly [[TheSeventies the 1970s]] and [[TheEighties '80s]] have been getting this too (when it comes to more contemporary issues such as homophobia).

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Occasionally people living in [[OldShame another widely disliked time]] will get this depiction. [[TheWildWest Nineteenth-century frontier America]] America]], [[UsefulNotes/VictorianBritain nineteenth-century Britain]], and [[TheFifties the 1950s]] have long been favorite targets, and increasingly [[TheSeventies the 1970s]] and [[TheEighties '80s]] have been getting this too (when it comes to more contemporary issues such as homophobia).
30th Aug '16 4:08:55 PM BiffJr
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* TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}: The average inhabitant of the Imperium is this IN SPACE. They consider the Emperor to be a god and the government to be his priesthood, and mutation is the new "witchcraft", with mutants persecuted widespread. What's more, the existence of the [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]] ensures that, while lasguns and starships are everywhere, nobody is actually qualified to build or repair them, and most believe that praying to them is what makes them work.
** This varies a lot by depiction and planet, with the above description fitting the most flanderised versions or less advanced planets. The prayers and rites circulated by the mechanicus are mostly actual, if ritualised instructions to maintain the equipment and only the more prestigious tech is monopolised by the Preisthood of Mars. In a slightly lighter depiction, your typical Civilised World resident has an education on par with a modern first world country.

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* TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}: The average inhabitant of the Imperium is this IN SPACE. They consider the Emperor to be a god and the government to be his priesthood, and mutation is the new "witchcraft", with mutants persecuted widespread. What's more, the existence of the [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]] ensures that, while lasguns and starships are everywhere, nobody is actually qualified to build or repair them, and most believe that praying to them is what makes them work.
**
work. [[note]] This varies does very a lot by depiction and planet, with the above description fitting the most flanderised versions or less advanced planets. The prayers and rites circulated by the mechanicus are mostly actual, if ritualised instructions to maintain the equipment and only the more prestigious tech is monopolised monopolized by the Preisthood Priesthood of Mars. In a slightly lighter depiction, your typical Civilised Civilized World resident has an education on par with a modern first world country.
country. [[/note]]



* ''WesternAnimation/TimeSquad''. In one particular episode, they manage to quickly convince Copernicus to stop being a farmer and write about how the Earth moves around the sun. He promptly agrees and goes to research under the basis that "That sounds important!" only to be seen in the end of the episode running back to where the Squad had just gone, screaming, "Wait! I forgot to ask! WHAT IS THIS 'SUN'?!"
** The "what is this 'sun'?" line likely was more poking fun at the area they showed him to be farming in, looking grey, bleak, and a few bits of brimstone away from Mordor. Probably closer to TheDungAges, though the first line would still be this trope.

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* ''WesternAnimation/TimeSquad''. In one particular episode, they manage to quickly convince Copernicus to stop being a farmer and write about how the Earth moves around the sun. He promptly agrees and goes to research under the basis that "That sounds important!" only to be seen in the end of the episode running back to where the Squad had just gone, screaming, "Wait! I forgot to ask! WHAT IS THIS 'SUN'?!"
**
'SUN'?!" [[note]] The "what is this 'sun'?" line likely was more poking fun at the area they showed him to be farming in, looking grey, bleak, and a few bits of brimstone away from Mordor. Probably closer to TheDungAges, though the first line would still be this trope. [[/note]]
8th Aug '16 5:35:58 PM Doug86
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*** Creator/MaryRenault has a bit about this in her books on AlexanderTheGreat, especially ''The Persian Boy'', in the sections on mixing wine with water to prevent disease.

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*** Creator/MaryRenault has a bit about this in her books on AlexanderTheGreat, UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat, especially ''The Persian Boy'', in the sections on mixing wine with water to prevent disease.
8th Aug '16 8:42:02 AM Morgenthaler
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* Largely averted in ''Manga/{{Jin}}''. The title character's medical skills are frequently not trusted as much as they really ought to be, but that's because he's doing things so far and above the pre-Meiji period that the only way they can believe it is to see it. Doctors get a fair amount of respect, Jin is eventually able to get Cattle Punk versions of 2000-era medical tools made, etc. Neither are the denizens of Tokugawa Japan portrayed as ignoramuses.

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* Largely averted in ''Manga/{{Jin}}''. The title character's medical skills are frequently not trusted as much as they really ought to be, but that's because he's doing things so far and above the pre-Meiji period that the only way they can believe it is to see it. Doctors get a fair amount of respect, Jin is eventually able to get Cattle Punk versions of 2000-era medical tools made, etc. Neither are the denizens of Tokugawa Japan portrayed as ignoramuses.

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* TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}: The average inhabitant of the Imperium is this IN SPACE. They consider the Emperor to be a god and the government to be his priesthood, and mutation is the new "witchcraft", with mutants persecuted widespread. What's more, the existence of the [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]] ensures that, while lasguns and starships are everywhere, nobody is actually qualified to build or repair them, and most believe that praying to them is what makes them work.

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* TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}: The average inhabitant of the Imperium is this IN SPACE. They consider the Emperor to be a god and the government to be his priesthood, and mutation is the new "witchcraft", with mutants persecuted widespread. What's more, the existence of the [[MachineWorship Mechanicus]] ensures that, while lasguns and starships are everywhere, nobody is actually qualified to build or repair them, and most believe that praying to them is what makes them work.



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31st Jul '16 12:12:04 PM CaptEquinox
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\n* Played straight in Frederic Pohl & C.M. Kornbluth's "Mute Inglorious Tam" where a medieval peasant has a lot of brilliant ideas and speculations, but he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what he means, and such talk could get him a stern talking-to from the priest, maybe even accused of witchcraft.




* Played straight in Frederic Pohl & C.M. Kornbluth's "Mute Inglorious Tam" where a medieval peasant has a lot of brilliant ideas and speculations, but he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what he means, and such talk could get him a stern talking-to from the priest, maybe even accused of witchcraft.

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* Played straight in Frederic Pohl & C.M. Kornbluth's "Mute Inglorious Tam" where a medieval peasant has a lot of brilliant ideas and speculations, but he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what he means, and such talk could get him a stern talking-to from the priest, maybe even accused of witchcraft.
31st Jul '16 12:10:34 PM CaptEquinox
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* Strongly subverted in ''Film/TheSecretOfKells'', showing how highly intelligent monks preserved everything carefully and artistically.




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* Played straight in Frederic Pohl & C.M. Kornbluth's "Mute Inglorious Tam" where a medieval peasant has a lot of brilliant ideas and speculations, but he doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what he means, and such talk could get him a stern talking-to from the priest, maybe even accused of witchcraft.



** Actually the alcohol thing is now partially believed to be a modern misconception as well. It was never all that hard or difficult to get spring or river water (though the rule "Don't shit where you drink" took until the 19th century to really take hold) for most medieval people, what ''was'' hard was ensuring a large enough supply of edible grain. Beer can be made from much lower quality grain than bread and thus it was a staple of the diet of e.g. medieval monks (of which shopping lists and menus survive). Compared to modern beer it appears to have been less watery, less hoppy and weaker in terms of alcohol content making for a relatively nutritious drink. Even the free laborers that built the pyramids had an amount of beer in their rations that would qualify them as TheAlcoholic today...

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** Actually the alcohol thing is now partially believed to be a modern misconception as well. It was never all that hard or difficult to get spring or river water (though the rule "Don't shit where you drink" took until the 19th century to really take hold) for most medieval people, what ''was'' hard was ensuring a large enough supply of edible grain. Beer can be made from much lower quality grain than bread and thus it was a staple of the diet of e.g. medieval monks (of which shopping lists and menus survive). Compared to modern beer it appears to have been less watery, less hoppy and weaker in terms of alcohol content making for a relatively nutritious drink. Even the free laborers that built the pyramids had an amount of beer in their rations that would qualify them as TheAlcoholic today...today.
*** Creator/MaryRenault has a bit about this in her books on AlexanderTheGreat, especially ''The Persian Boy'', in the sections on mixing wine with water to prevent disease.



** Monasteries carefully preserved and duplicated by hand the precious writings saved from the fall of Rome, with more scholarly monks often encouraged to devote their lives to the study and practice of philosophy, mathematics, engineering and physics, or medicine.

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** Monasteries carefully preserved and duplicated by hand the precious writings saved from the fall of Rome, with more scholarly monks often encouraged to devote their lives to the study and practice of philosophy, mathematics, engineering and physics, or medicine. ''How The Irish Saved Civilization'' is a good intro to this.
30th May '16 4:46:13 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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* In ''TheSwordOfTruth'' one of the morals is [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop "People are stupid"]] and boy does it show. From the first book, there's a crowd of people being moved to tears by Michael's impassioned speech about the evils of ''fire''. The Mud People, despite living for generations in a place where it rains all the time, have somehow never figured out how to make roofs that don't leak. And there's the group of peasants sent by Darken Rahl to attack Zedd in the belief he's a witch. First he tells them the term is warlock. Then he talks the angry mob into having a ''brainstorming session'' about all the terrible things warlocks can do until they get scared and give up.

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* In ''TheSwordOfTruth'' ''Literature/TheSwordOfTruth'' one of the morals is [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop "People are stupid"]] and boy does it show. From the first book, there's a crowd of people being moved to tears by Michael's impassioned speech about the evils of ''fire''. The Mud People, despite living for generations in a place where it rains all the time, have somehow never figured out how to make roofs that don't leak. And there's the group of peasants sent by Darken Rahl to attack Zedd in the belief he's a witch. First he tells them the term is warlock. Then he talks the angry mob into having a ''brainstorming session'' about all the terrible things warlocks can do until they get scared and give up.
24th Apr '16 8:14:00 PM Fireblood
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* The best expression of this trope is the flat-earth myth. No, medieval Europeans didn't think the Earth was flat. Europeans learned that the Earth was round during the time of AncientGreece and that knowledge was never lost. The idea that belief in a flat Earth was widespread during the Middle Ages appears to have been invented during the 19th century, for the purpose of giving a HistoricalHeroUpgrade to UsefulNotes/ChristopherColumbus and casting him as a proto-Enlightenment thinker who achieved glory by challenging medieval superstition. In reality, it was Columbus who made a huge error over the size of the Earth, claiming one could sail directly from Spain to India. His detractors (including clergy members) rightly said it was far larger and this couldn't be done. His fleet almost ran out of food and his sailors had gotten to the edge of mutiny when they ran into the Americas.

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* The best expression of this trope is the flat-earth myth. No, medieval Europeans didn't think the Earth was flat. Europeans learned that the Earth was round during the time of AncientGreece and that knowledge was never lost. The idea that belief in a flat Earth was widespread during the Middle Ages appears to have been invented during the 19th century, for the purpose of giving a HistoricalHeroUpgrade to UsefulNotes/ChristopherColumbus and casting him as a proto-Enlightenment thinker who achieved glory by challenging medieval superstition. In reality, it was Columbus who made a huge error over the size of the Earth, claiming one could sail directly from Spain to India. His detractors (including clergy members) rightly said it was far larger and this couldn't be done. His fleet almost ran out of food and his the sailors had gotten to the edge of mutiny when they ran into the Americas.
24th Apr '16 8:13:32 PM Fireblood
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* The best expression of this trope is the flat-earth myth. No, medieval Europeans didn't think the Earth was flat. Europeans learned that the Earth was round during the time of AncientGreece and that knowledge was never lost. The idea that belief in a flat Earth was widespread during the Middle Ages appears to have been invented during the 19th century, for the purpose of giving a HistoricalHeroUpgrade to UsefulNotes/ChristopherColumbus and casting him as a proto-Enlightenment thinker who achieved glory by challenging medieval superstition.

to:

* The best expression of this trope is the flat-earth myth. No, medieval Europeans didn't think the Earth was flat. Europeans learned that the Earth was round during the time of AncientGreece and that knowledge was never lost. The idea that belief in a flat Earth was widespread during the Middle Ages appears to have been invented during the 19th century, for the purpose of giving a HistoricalHeroUpgrade to UsefulNotes/ChristopherColumbus and casting him as a proto-Enlightenment thinker who achieved glory by challenging medieval superstition. In reality, it was Columbus who made a huge error over the size of the Earth, claiming one could sail directly from Spain to India. His detractors (including clergy members) rightly said it was far larger and this couldn't be done. His fleet almost ran out of food and his sailors had gotten to the edge of mutiny when they ran into the Americas.
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