History Main / MarySueTopia

23rd Aug '16 8:38:08 AM Morgenthaler
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** The society in ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' was also a sort of Mary Suetopia, based on his later conservative ideals. Of course, [[Film/StarshipTroopers the films]] subvert this into a Straw Dystopia, but not an actualized one. The book did preach a "military democracy" (a completely nonsensical contradiction in terms, given that every military throughout history has operated through a hierarchical structure and not through popular vote) that utilized corporal punishment for crimes, and capital punishment (not just for murder but other major violent crimes) even with insane persons; the given rationale for the society was that "it works," using only the fictitious evidence of the book itself, while scorning all 20th century conventions as "primitive myths" which were naturally proven wrong by "advanced scientific proofs" of Heinlein's Suetopian future-world, such as the supposed need to corporeally punish dogs in order to housebreak them (which, you will note, most dog experts agree is a terrible idea, these days). That section was comparing never or barely disciplining a puppy for messing in the house, then shooting it as an adult when it continued its misbehavior, to comparative behavior in not punishing juvenile delinquents and then executing the people when they became adults and continued their crimes. (Though seriously, who ''shoots their dog'' over peeing on the rug?)
*** It is questionable whether ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' can be described as a "military democracy", as the author repeatedly states both that Federal Service is not necessarily military, and that no one on active service can vote.

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** The society in ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' was also a sort of Mary Suetopia, based on his later conservative ideals. Of course, [[Film/StarshipTroopers the films]] subvert this into a Straw Dystopia, but not an actualized one. The book did preach a "military democracy" (a completely nonsensical contradiction in terms, given that every military throughout history has operated through a hierarchical structure and not through popular vote) that utilized corporal punishment for crimes, and capital punishment (not just for murder but other major violent crimes) even with insane persons; the given rationale for the society was that "it works," using only the fictitious evidence of the book itself, while scorning all 20th century conventions as "primitive myths" which were naturally proven wrong by "advanced scientific proofs" of Heinlein's Suetopian future-world, such as the supposed need to corporeally punish dogs in order to housebreak them (which, you will note, most dog experts agree is a terrible idea, these days). That [[note]]That section was comparing never or barely disciplining a puppy for messing in the house, then shooting it as an adult when it continued its misbehavior, to comparative behavior in not punishing juvenile delinquents and then executing the people when they became adults and continued their crimes. (Though seriously, who ''shoots their dog'' over peeing on the rug?)
*** It is questionable whether ''Literature/StarshipTroopers'' can be described as a "military democracy", as the author repeatedly states both that Federal Service is not necessarily military, and that no one on active service can vote.
rug?)[[/note]]
21st Aug '16 12:32:02 PM nombretomado
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* EclipsePhase has a counterpoint to the utopian anarchists mentioned above in the form of the Jovians, and more generally the bioconservative movement. While a society that's inherently suspicious of transhumanism and bio-augmentation is legitimately the natural antagonist in a setting that's entirely about "Transhumanity", it gets taken [[ThoseWackyNazis a bit further than it]] [[{{Flanderization}} really needed to go]].

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* EclipsePhase ''TabletopGame/EclipsePhase'' has a counterpoint to the utopian anarchists mentioned above in the form of the Jovians, and more generally the bioconservative movement. While a society that's inherently suspicious of transhumanism and bio-augmentation is legitimately the natural antagonist in a setting that's entirely about "Transhumanity", it gets taken [[ThoseWackyNazis a bit further than it]] [[{{Flanderization}} really needed to go]].
17th Aug '16 4:41:25 PM t209
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*** [[spoiler: Though it is pretty much first attempt on political reform and providing a formal administration instead of TrialByCombat.]]

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*** [[spoiler: Though it is pretty much first attempt on political reform and providing a formal administration instead of TrialByCombat. And T'Challa did say that the council is to be selected from the populace.]]
14th Aug '16 6:58:50 PM dragonfire5000
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* Played straight for the most part in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' with the [[{{Wutai}} Kingdom of Hoshido]], a land so bountiful and filled with light that its neighbor, [[{{Mordor}} Nohr,]] repeatedly attacks in naked aggression without even bothering to ''ask'' for aid or alliance. The land is covered in a barrier that makes [[CareBearStare invaders lose all warmongering impulses]]. The former king and current queen are paragons of virtue, and the kingdom itself is always presented as being on the morally higher ground compared to Nohr, and this even carries over if you pick the ''Invisible Kingdom'' route in which you pick neither side. Whatever [[ALighterShadeOfGrey grayer]] spots of Hoshido are mentioned are either mentioned in passing ([[spoiler:Azura's kidnapping by Hoshidan shinobi and experiencing severe racism while growing up there; despite this, even she tries to initially convince the Avatar to side with Hoshido]]) or handwaved entirely ([[spoiler:Takumi shooting Elise with an arrow on the Nohr route and Ryoma threatening to let her die if the Avatar doesn't return]]; the Avatar completely lets it slide). The biggest flaw that Hoshido has is the prejudice that many citizens feel against Nohrians, but as this hatred derives entirely from Nohr's unprovoked evil actions many players feel that this attempt at moral balancing falls flat. In fact, there's not a single named Hoshidan character that the game presents as a bad person, even when you're fighting against Hoshido! This has drawn criticism as unnecessarily-weak storytelling, especially when held against the track record of the rest of the series.[[note]]''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Gaiden]]'' had Zofia refuse to give food to Rigel, while ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemJugdral Thracia 776]]'' revealed Leonster imposed heavy tariffs on Thracian crops, making it hard for commoners to earn enough to eat. Even ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'', for all its [[BlackAndWhiteMorality comparative moral simplicity]], mentioned that, from a historical perspective, the Plegians ''did'' have legitimate grievances against Ylisse that Gangrel was stoking for his own ends.[[/note]]

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* Played straight for the most part in ''VideoGame/FireEmblemFates'' with has the [[{{Wutai}} Kingdom of Hoshido]], Hoshido]]. It is portrayed as a land so bountiful place of great beauty, peace, and filled prosperity, with light that its neighbor, [[{{Mordor}} Nohr,]] repeatedly attacks in naked aggression without even bothering to ''ask'' for aid or alliance. The land is covered in a barrier that makes [[CareBearStare invaders lose all warmongering impulses]]. The former king kind and current gentle queen are paragons of virtue, leading it, and the people there live comfortable lives. There are less savory aspects of the kingdom, such as the FantasticRacism directed at Azura, but for the most part it's portrayed as a kingdom itself is always presented as being on the morally higher ground compared to Nohr, and this even carries over if you pick the ''Invisible Kingdom'' route in which you pick neither side. Whatever [[ALighterShadeOfGrey grayer]] spots full of Hoshido are mentioned are either mentioned in passing ([[spoiler:Azura's kidnapping by Hoshidan shinobi and experiencing severe racism while growing up there; despite this, even she tries to initially convince the Avatar to side with Hoshido]]) or handwaved entirely ([[spoiler:Takumi shooting Elise with an arrow on the Nohr route and Ryoma threatening to let her die if the Avatar doesn't return]]; the Avatar completely lets it slide). The biggest flaw that Hoshido has is the prejudice that many citizens feel against Nohrians, but as this hatred derives entirely from Nohr's unprovoked evil actions many players feel that this attempt at moral balancing falls flat. In fact, there's not a single named Hoshidan character that the game presents as a bad person, even when you're fighting against Hoshido! This has drawn criticism as unnecessarily-weak storytelling, especially when held against the track record of the rest of the series.[[note]]''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAkaneia Gaiden]]'' had Zofia refuse to give food to Rigel, while ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemJugdral Thracia 776]]'' revealed Leonster imposed heavy tariffs on Thracian crops, making it hard for commoners to earn enough to eat. Even ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'', for all its [[BlackAndWhiteMorality comparative moral simplicity]], mentioned that, from a historical perspective, the Plegians ''did'' have legitimate grievances against Ylisse that Gangrel was stoking for his own ends.[[/note]]good-natured people.
14th Aug '16 6:00:10 PM t209
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**** [[spoiler: Though it is pretty much first attempt on political reform and providing a formal administration instead of TrialByCombat.]]



** In the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' relaunch of the ''Black Panther'' title, Wakanda is returned to its pristine form, but we're shown another facet of what's going on as we're shown a hi-tech country with archaic laws. When a few women are imprisoned for attacking their would-be rapists, they've had enough and turn rebel.

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** In the ''ComicBook/AllNewAllDifferentMarvel'' relaunch of the ''Black Panther'' title, Wakanda is returned to its pristine form, but we're shown another facet of what's going on as we're shown a hi-tech country with archaic laws. When a few women are imprisoned for attacking their would-be rapists, including the wardens of prisons for female, they've had enough and turn rebel.
12th Aug '16 8:12:09 PM nombretomado
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** According to the novels, there have been multiple attempts by the Light Others to remake certain cultures into this trope. Unfortunately, they have all be failures, some having been sabotaged by the Dark Others, others failing simply due to human nature. These include the AmericanRevolution, presumably intended to create a nation of perfectly good people unblemished by the Old World's prejudices, only to have the new country follow the same path and do other unsavory things (e.g. slavery, extermination/relocation of the Native Americans). Still, this is nothing compared to the huge failure that was national socialism, or, as it's better known, Nazism.

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** According to the novels, there have been multiple attempts by the Light Others to remake certain cultures into this trope. Unfortunately, they have all be failures, some having been sabotaged by the Dark Others, others failing simply due to human nature. These include the AmericanRevolution, UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution, presumably intended to create a nation of perfectly good people unblemished by the Old World's prejudices, only to have the new country follow the same path and do other unsavory things (e.g. slavery, extermination/relocation of the Native Americans). Still, this is nothing compared to the huge failure that was national socialism, or, as it's better known, Nazism.
7th Aug '16 4:41:48 PM frogpatrol
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Often, the author will make a society such as this work just too well to be believable and will even gleefully punish anyone who deviates from the society's core ideology to "prove" that ideology's superiority; in fact the only time you'll actually see anyone in any kind of distress in the Mary Suetopia is when they try to break with the society's core ideology. Frequently, the biggest external threat to the Mary Suetopia will be an aggressive neighbor whose social-structure represents a [[StrawCharacter Strawman Political]] version of the philosophy most diametrically opposed to that of The Mary Suetopia - a Straw {{Dystopia}}.

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Often, the author will make a society such as this work just too well to be believable and will even gleefully punish anyone who deviates from the society's core ideology to "prove" that ideology's superiority; in fact the only time you'll actually see anyone in any kind of distress in the Mary Suetopia is when they try to break with the society's core ideology. Frequently, the biggest external threat to the Mary Suetopia will be an aggressive neighbor whose social-structure represents a [[StrawCharacter Strawman Political]] version of the philosophy most diametrically opposed to that of The the Mary Suetopia - Suetopia, namely a Straw {{Dystopia}}.
26th Jul '16 9:28:59 AM DannWoolf
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* Parodied in the ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' Engineer update comic, where it's revealed that Australia became a hyper-masculine Gary Stu-topia at the pinnacle of technological progress thanks to the discovery of TestosteronePoisoning-inducing [[{{Unobtanium}} Australium]]. Even though the Australians were originally dumb, the Australium made them super-geniuses through and allowed them to grow marvelous handlebar mustaches, even on women.

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* Parodied in the ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' Engineer update comic, where it's revealed that Australia became a hyper-masculine Gary Stu-topia at the pinnacle of technological progress thanks to the discovery of TestosteronePoisoning-inducing [[{{Unobtanium}} Australium]]. Even though the Australians were originally dumb, the Australium made them super-geniuses through and allowed them to grow marvelous handlebar mustaches, even on women.
24th Jul '16 2:52:32 AM Anddrix
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** And of course TheFederation itself. Want to work? Cool, do what you want. Go found a new colony. We don't use money, we have replicators and everyone works only for their own benefit. ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine Deep Space Nine]]'' is [[BaseBreaker both well liked and criticized because it denies this Utopia.]]

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** And of course TheFederation itself. Want to work? Cool, do what you want. Go found a new colony. We don't use money, we have replicators and everyone works only for their own benefit. ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine Deep Space Nine]]'' is [[BaseBreaker both well liked and criticized because it denies this Utopia.]]
17th Jul '16 6:16:08 PM nombretomado
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* In the ''Literature/CoDominium'' series by Jerry Pournelle, Earth under the control of the CoDominium - an alliance between the Western and [[TheGreatPoliticsMessUp Eastern blocs]] - has become an extreme exaggeration of a Welfare State where the privileged Taxpayer class support massive "Welfare Islands" where uneducated citizens receive an endless supply of free food and drugs. Later averted as the [=CoDom=] was [[WorldWarThree on the way out]] and everyone knew it, resulting in them shipping as many people offworld as possible [[PenalColony whether they liked it or not]] in order to [[WellIntentionedExtremist save humanity]].

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* In the ''Literature/CoDominium'' series by Jerry Pournelle, Earth under the control of the CoDominium [=CoDominium=] - an alliance between the Western and [[TheGreatPoliticsMessUp Eastern blocs]] - has become an extreme exaggeration of a Welfare State where the privileged Taxpayer class support massive "Welfare Islands" where uneducated citizens receive an endless supply of free food and drugs. Later averted as the [=CoDom=] was [[WorldWarThree on the way out]] and everyone knew it, resulting in them shipping as many people offworld as possible [[PenalColony whether they liked it or not]] in order to [[WellIntentionedExtremist save humanity]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.MarySueTopia