History Main / KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter

21st Feb '17 10:13:58 AM SolidSonicTH
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* ''VideoGame/GearsOfWar'': The COG have access to energy weapons, evidenced by the Hammer of Dawn KillSat, however in terms of infantry firepower, it's all projectiles. The Locust weapons are also projectile-based.
17th Feb '17 12:35:25 PM KeithM
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* One published campaign for AD&D took the Greyhawk setting centuries into the future where {{Magitek}} made the world look more like the 20th Century instead of quasi-medieval (dragons vs fighter jets!). Combat weapons were projectile-throwers that looked like guns, but instead of using a propellant operated via a combination of magic and science. When the weapon was fired, the gun used a spell that teleported the bullet into the vicinity of the sun and allowed it to fall for an hour or so, gaining very high velocity from gravitational acceleration. An instant after using the teleport spell, the gun used another teleport spell that pulled the bullet backwards in time so it reappeared the instant after it left, but now carrying very high velocity from it's hour-long freefall.
17th Feb '17 12:08:54 PM chochlik
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*** The Collectors apparently have done exactly that with their Collector Particle Beam heavy weapon. This is ignored in game for [[GameplayAndStorySegregation balance purposes]] - the Collector Particle Beam still has to eat through shields before hitting any ceramic armor or fleshy stuff. Partially justified in that it's shooting ''particles'' as opposed to electromagnetic energy, and your kinetic barriers can still protect you from any high energy particles that have mass, such as plasma and even [[WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief deadly radiation from a dying sun]] (Well, two of the three known types of radiation—alpha and beta—''are'' particulate: helium atoms and electrons, respectively. Gamma radiation is photonic, so it's a gray area).

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*** The Collectors apparently have done exactly that with their Collector Particle Beam heavy weapon. This is ignored in game for [[GameplayAndStorySegregation balance purposes]] - the Collector Particle Beam still has to eat through shields before hitting any ceramic armor or fleshy stuff. Partially justified in that it's shooting ''particles'' as opposed to electromagnetic energy, and your kinetic barriers can still protect you from any high energy particles that have mass, such as plasma and even [[WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief deadly radiation from a dying sun]] (Well, two of the three known (many radiation types of radiation—alpha and beta—''are'' particulate: are just massive particles: positrons, neutrons, helium atoms and electrons, respectively. Gamma nuclei. Ultraviolet, gamma radiation is photonic, so it's a gray area).problem).
13th Feb '17 11:02:44 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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*** Another example in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedDestiny'', where the ''Archangel'' and ''Minerva'' duel(again), during the ZAFT invasion of Orb. With both ships equipped with Laminate Armor, they could take several beam shots from each other with no damage. The ''Archangel'' eventually wins by abandoning the duel, going underwater, and sinking ZAFT submarines with it's railguns, forcing the entire army to retreat.

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*** Another example in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedDestiny'', where the ''Archangel'' and ''Minerva'' duel(again), duel (again), during the ZAFT invasion of Orb. With both ships equipped with Laminate Armor, they could take several beam shots from each other with no damage. The ''Archangel'' eventually wins by abandoning the duel, going underwater, and sinking ZAFT submarines with it's railguns, forcing the entire army to retreat.



*** There's also the Dáinsleif, a type of railcannon capable of firing special kinetic penetrator ammunition that can even pierce Nanolaminate Armor; it's so dangerous that its use is formally banned. [[spoiler:Tekkadan's third Gundam, Flauros, uses this type of railcannon but because they don't use the special ammo it falls into a kind of legal gray area. A couple of episodes later, Iok Kujan's forces frame Naze Turbine for illegally transporting Dáinsleifs...[[{{Hypocrite}} and then has his forces use them to attack Naze's ship.]]]]

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*** There's also the Dáinsleif, a type of railcannon capable of firing special kinetic penetrator ammunition that can even pierce Nanolaminate Armor; it's so dangerous that its use is formally banned. [[spoiler:Tekkadan's third Gundam, Flauros, uses this type of railcannon but because they don't use the special ammo so it falls into a kind of legal gray area. A couple of episodes later, Iok Kujan's forces frame Naze Turbine for illegally transporting Dáinsleifs...[[{{Hypocrite}} and then has his forces use them to attack Naze's ship.]]]]ship]].]]
13th Feb '17 6:14:38 PM LinTaylor
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** Battery power (and the idea that Junk Guild members don't kill) is what lead Lowe Guele to make the Gerbera Straight katana in ''Manga/MobileSuitGundamSEEDAstray''. While he could have used a Heavy Sword from a GINN, he points out that swinging it uses too much energy, so he needed something that wasn't too demanding on the engine.


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*** There's also the Dáinsleif, a type of railcannon capable of firing special kinetic penetrator ammunition that can even pierce Nanolaminate Armor; it's so dangerous that its use is formally banned. [[spoiler:Tekkadan's third Gundam, Flauros, uses this type of railcannon but because they don't use the special ammo it falls into a kind of legal gray area. A couple of episodes later, Iok Kujan's forces frame Naze Turbine for illegally transporting Dáinsleifs...[[{{Hypocrite}} and then has his forces use them to attack Naze's ship.]]]]
5th Feb '17 2:50:16 PM StarSword
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** Semi-automatic pistols are traditionally used for duels on Manticore due to the fact that they are less lethal than pulsers. Pulsers themselves are miniature mass accelerators, using gravitic acceleration to fire physical rounds.
** Honor herself practices frequently with a (reproduction) Colt [=M1911A1=] .45 automatic, simply because she enjoys the challenge of hitting a target with a weapon that doesn't do half the work with advanced sensors, etc. In one case this "saved the day", when she was able to sneak her .45 into a hostage situation because it had no electronics or energy cell that would trigger inboard sensors keyed to look for weapons that had both- like pulsers.
** In the ''Honorverse'', while most ship-to-ship missiles come armed with some kind of warhead or electronic warfare suite - and the author has [[http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/127/1 explicitly shot down the use of kinetic antiship attacks]] - countermissiles work by simply smashing their wedges into those of the attacking missiles at ludicrously high fractions of ''c''.

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** Semi-automatic pistols are traditionally used for duels on Manticore due to the fact that they are less lethal than pulsers. Pulsers themselves are miniature mass accelerators, using gravitic acceleration to fire physical rounds.
**
rounds. Honor herself practices frequently with a (reproduction) Colt [=M1911A1=] .45 automatic, simply because she enjoys the challenge of hitting a target with a weapon that doesn't do half the work with advanced sensors, etc. In one case this "saved the day", when she was able to sneak her .45 into a hostage situation because it had no electronics or energy cell that would trigger inboard sensors keyed to look for weapons that had both- like pulsers.
** In the ''Honorverse'', while While most ship-to-ship missiles come armed with some kind of warhead or electronic warfare suite - and the author has [[http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/127/1 explicitly shot down the use of kinetic antiship attacks]] - countermissiles work by simply smashing their wedges into those of the attacking missiles at ludicrously high fractions of ''c''.



** ZigZagged in ''Literature/HammersSlammers'', some armies use railgun rifles because thy have better armor piercing capabilities than [[PlasmaCannon powerguns]]. However, railguns are no cheaper, since they [[EnforcedTrope require]] [[BlingBlingBang diamond barrels]], and don't [[{{BFG}} scale up]] the way powerguns do. [[FrickinLaserBeams laser guns]] can't be made in man-portable sizes because they require a 400 pound fusion reactor to reach killing power, and explosive bullets are just as likely to vaporize a leaf than kill an enemy.

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** ZigZagged in ''Literature/HammersSlammers'', some armies use railgun rifles because thy have better armor piercing capabilities than [[PlasmaCannon powerguns]]. However, railguns are no cheaper, since they [[EnforcedTrope require]] [[BlingBlingBang diamond barrels]], and don't [[{{BFG}} scale up]] the way powerguns do. [[FrickinLaserBeams laser guns]] can't be made in man-portable sizes because they require a 400 pound fusion reactor to reach killing power, and explosive bullets are just as likely to vaporize a leaf than as kill an enemy.enemy.
** In ''Literature/TheCitizenSeries'', laser small arms do exist and are effective in planetside battles, but they result in self-immolation if used in the Continuum since they reflect off the field that protects the traveler. Space combat is mainly a realm of antipersonnel "spring guns", basically crossbows or spearguns (or [[RockBeatsLaser actual spears]] in the case of the Riders). Late in the book an ArmsDealer whom Allenson recruits into the Militia has the idea to bolt them to the front of the frame to make a FixedForwardFacingWeapon that can be aimed much easier, mirroring the development of air-to-air combat in UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Allenson also initially equips his Militia with firearms rather than laser weapons simply because they're cheaper and make logistics easier.
5th Feb '17 7:28:24 AM SAMAS
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* When the [[spoiler:Earth-aliens]] infiltrate the protagonists' ship in ''Anime/{{Vandread}},'' it turns out that said invaders could deflect energy weapons, but not a few .50 caliber clips. Having museum-piece guns lying about onboard ''sure'' was convenient...

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* When the [[spoiler:Earth-aliens]] infiltrate the protagonists' ship in ''Anime/{{Vandread}},'' it turns out that said invaders could deflect energy weapons, but not a few .50 caliber clips. Having an avid gun collector among the crew with quite a few museum-piece guns lying about onboard ''sure'' was convenient...



*** Another example in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSeedDestiny'', where the ''Archangel'' and ''Minerva'' duel(again), during the ZAFT invasion of Orb. With both ships equipped with Laminate Armor, they could take several beam shots from each other with no damage. The ''Archangel'' eventually wins by abandoning the duel, going underwater, and sinking ZAFT submarines with it's railguns, forcing the entire army to retreat.



* In ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' chemically propelled cannons and lasers coexist. Energy weapons generally have the advantage in firepower-per-weight, and don't run out of ammunition as long as the mech's reactor is still working. However, energy weapons generate large amounts of heat, and an energy-heavy mech needs a lot of gear to deal with that, reducing the overall amount of weapons and armour. Plus, The highest-damaging weapons in the game are all kinetic(or explosive). There are still discussions which is better in-game. It's also worth noting that even in the far future, there is no better weapon for anti-infantry duty than the lowly but battle-tested heavy machine gun and even the lightest mech can carry a large amount of ammo for one.

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' chemically propelled cannons and lasers coexist. Energy weapons generally have the advantage in firepower-per-weight, and don't run out of ammunition as long as the mech's reactor is still working. However, energy weapons generate large amounts of heat, and an energy-heavy mech needs a lot of gear to deal with that, reducing the overall amount of weapons and armour. Plus, The highest-damaging weapons in the game are all kinetic(or explosive).explosive), and they often have the added versatility of using different kinds of ammunition. There are still discussions which is better in-game. It's also worth noting that even in the far future, there is no better weapon for anti-infantry duty than the lowly but battle-tested heavy machine gun and even the lightest mech can carry a large amount of ammo for one.
5th Feb '17 7:16:39 AM SAMAS
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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' chemically propelled cannons and lasers coexist. Energy weapons generally have the advantage in firepower-per-weight, and don't run out of ammunition as long as the mech's reactor is still working. However, energy weapons generate large amounts of heat, and an energy-heavy mech needs a lot of gear to deal with that, reducing the overall amount of weapons and armour. There are still discussions which is better in-game. It's also worth noting that even in the far future, there is no better weapon for anti-infantry duty than the lowly but battle-tested heavy machine gun and even the lightest mech can carry a large amount of ammo for one.

to:

* In ''TabletopGame/{{Battletech}}'' chemically propelled cannons and lasers coexist. Energy weapons generally have the advantage in firepower-per-weight, and don't run out of ammunition as long as the mech's reactor is still working. However, energy weapons generate large amounts of heat, and an energy-heavy mech needs a lot of gear to deal with that, reducing the overall amount of weapons and armour. Plus, The highest-damaging weapons in the game are all kinetic(or explosive). There are still discussions which is better in-game. It's also worth noting that even in the far future, there is no better weapon for anti-infantry duty than the lowly but battle-tested heavy machine gun and even the lightest mech can carry a large amount of ammo for one.


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** [[VideoGame/Titanfall2 The sequel]] backs off from this slightly. There are a few more energy weapons in the game(most of them man-portable), and one Titan with an almost all-energy loadout and the CatchAndReturn shield that makes it a tough oppnent for the other Projectile-using Titans in the right hands. Although one of those other Titans is an equally-strong contender for best Titan in the game.
1st Feb '17 9:33:10 AM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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*** It should be noted this explanation makes little sense in space. The kinetic main gun on a Mass Effect dreadnaught is said to propel its projectiles at 4025 km/s (see the page quote). At "hundreds of thousands" of kilometers, the enemy has upwards of 1 full minute to dodge any given round. If we were talking about naval ships in an ocean, then that is not enough time to dodge and the weapon is useful. But in space, especially given the extreme maneuverability offered by mass effect drive engines, kinetic guns should be utterly and completely useless at anything but planetary or space station bombardment. If it can dodge at all, kinetic weapons are just inferior.
*** Good luck detecting a 2 kg piece of metal moving in space at over 1% of lightspeed.
*** Isn't what radars are for though?
1st Feb '17 3:11:10 AM corax
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**** Isn't what radars are for though?
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