History Main / KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter

24th Aug '16 3:09:23 AM DarthWalrus
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* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerRedAlert3'' plays this straight on an infantry level. For infantry, kinetic weapons are better because they're available! The only man-portable energy weapons are the electricity weapons on the Tesla Troopers (slow rate of fire and rather short-ranged, but devastating against vehicles and infantry) and the Tank-Busters who can easily carve up tanks with their plasma-cutters but do pretty poor damage against infantry. It also plays this straight for ant-air weapons, as missiles and auto-cannons are the best for shooting down aircraft. The Archer Maiden's arrows look like energy bolts but they're really ordinary arrows with a explosive shell for a tip and the Cryo Legionaire only get their anti-aircraft freeze ray if they are garrisoned in a Multi-gun Turret or IFV. For vehicles, this is trope is largely averted, all 3 factions use energy weapons for high-end units because in a world where mad science reigns supreme, energy weapons hit a lot harder. Nothing can match the firepower of the Giga-Fortress, Harbinger Gunship and the Shogun Battleship. And unlike other games, most artillery is energy-based (the Pacifier is kind of a hybrid, it fires bomblets that deliver protonic energy blasts) for reasons of heavier firepower or in the case of the Athen Cannon, better accuracy. Even for the tier 3 tanks, the Apocalypse Tanks dominates because of its "magnetic harpoon" tractor beam, in a pure gun to gun battle it'll barely survive against King Oni and only because it has a lot more health and regeneration. The Apocalypse Tank's twin 125mm cannons can't match the King Oni's particle beam for damage.

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* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerRedAlert3'' plays this straight on an infantry level. For infantry, kinetic weapons are better because they're available! The only man-portable energy weapons are the electricity weapons on the Tesla Troopers (slow rate of fire and rather short-ranged, but devastating against vehicles and infantry) and the Tank-Busters who can easily carve up tanks with their plasma-cutters but do pretty poor damage against infantry. It also plays this straight for ant-air weapons, as missiles and auto-cannons are the best for shooting down aircraft. The Archer Maiden's arrows look like energy bolts but they're really ordinary arrows with a explosive shell for a tip and the Cryo Legionaire only get their anti-aircraft freeze ray if they are garrisoned in a Multi-gun Turret or IFV. For vehicles, this is trope is largely averted, all 3 factions use energy weapons for high-end units because in a world where mad science reigns supreme, energy weapons hit a lot harder. Nothing can match the firepower of the Giga-Fortress, Harbinger Gunship and the Shogun Battleship. And unlike other games, most artillery is energy-based (the Pacifier is kind of a hybrid, it fires bomblets that deliver protonic energy blasts) for reasons of heavier firepower or in the case of the Athen Cannon, better accuracy. Even for the tier 3 tanks, the Apocalypse Tanks dominates because of its "magnetic harpoon" tractor beam, in a pure gun to gun battle it'll barely survive against King Oni and only because it has a lot more health and regeneration. The Apocalypse Tank's twin 125mm cannons can't match the King Oni's particle beam for damage. And, for once, there isn't a conventional Nuclear Missile. The Soviets use what's essentially a short-lived Black Hole, the Allies have an Antimatter cannon, and the Empire uses large-scale telekinesis PoweredByAForsakenChild.
11th Aug '16 11:03:45 PM Ragitsu
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** On the other hand, energy weapons are generally far more accurate than their kinetic counterparts, possess the lowest (and best) Recoil statistics, can hold truly prodigious amounts of shots per battery/energy cell, and ultimately output the most damage at the highest Tech Levels.

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** On the other hand, energy weapons are generally far more accurate than their kinetic counterparts, possess the lowest (and best) Recoil statistics, can hold truly prodigious amounts of shots per battery/energy cell, fare better against machines (Burning damage is not reduced the way Piercing damage is against the unliving) and ultimately output the most damage at the highest Tech Levels.
11th Aug '16 11:00:23 PM Ragitsu
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** On the other hand, energy weapons are generally far more accurate than their kinetic counterparts, possess the lowest (and best) Recoil statistics, can hold truly prodigious amounts of shots per battery/energy cell, and ultimately output the most damage at the highest Tech Levels.
7th Aug '16 12:43:00 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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** While most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, the Brute weapons from ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'' onward tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. In fact, ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}'' shows that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. That said, even the regular Covenant military commonly uses exotic projectile weapons like the Needler and Carbine.

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** While most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, the Brute weapons from ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'' onward tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. In fact, ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}'' shows that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. That said, even the regular Covenant military commonly uses exotic projectile weapons like the Needler and Carbine.Carbine; it's just that those projectiles tend to be things like exploding crystal needles and radioactive compounds.
7th Aug '16 12:38:15 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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** While most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, the Brute weapons from ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'' onward tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. In fact, ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}'' shows that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. That said, even the regular Covenant arsenal includes exotic projectile weapons like the Needler and Carbine.

to:

** While most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, the Brute weapons from ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'' onward tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. In fact, ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}'' shows that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. That said, even the regular Covenant arsenal includes military commonly uses exotic projectile weapons like the Needler and Carbine.
7th Aug '16 12:36:50 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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* ''Franchise/{{Halo}}'' is set around 500 years in the future, with all the AI, Faster-than-light spaceships, Spartan Lasers, artificial gravity systems and powered armor suits, that come with TheFuture; however, the human UNSC military is still fighting with weapons and vehicles not that much dissimilar to those of today: bigass tanks, buggies, warplanes, missiles, etc, to the point that the standard UNSC assault rifle's round is literally a conventional 20th century 7.62x51mm battle-rifle bullet. Most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, but the Brute weapons in ''Halo 3'' tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. It is also mentioned, at least on [[http://www.halopedia.org/Jiralhanae#Culture this page]] that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. Also, UNSC weapons deal out more damage to unshielded opponents, although Covenant weapons bring down shields faster. A player who takes advantage of this fact with UNSC/Covenant combos can bring down enemies with ease.
** As shown in ''{{VideoGame/Halo 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/HaloWars'', the UNSC has laser weaponry in the form of the Spartan Laser; it is a lot more powerful than normal weaponry but it takes a long time to charge, uses up its battery quickly, and is tremendously expensive (costing as much as ''six Warthogs''), making it more of an Anti-tank weapon than anything else.
** There's some aversion, though not entirely. Besides the Forerunner Halos, the Super MAC, which is an entire satellite that's just one massive [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun coilgun]], is one of the most destructive weapon in the entire known galaxy. Upon impact with a fully shielded Covenant ship the Covenant ship promptly either explodes (it's speculated in-universe that a ship beneath a certain tonnage threshold would be outright ''vaporized'') or - more likely - has a humongous hole punched through it, as the hyperspeed shell maintains enough forward momentum to punch through a ''second'' ship, and possibly even keep going after that. That's what happens when you shoot a 3000-ton slug of ferric tungsten and depleted uranium at 12,000 kilometers per second (.04c). Some quick-and-dirty math means it's about 51.56 ''gigatons'', and if fired directly at a planet's surface, would likely cause cataclysmic damage, likely culminating in a mass extinction.
** Although there may be an aversion to this trope, in that Covenant ship-to-ship weapons prove painfully effective in utterly annihilating human vessels, ''boiling'' away their reinforced titanium hulls in seconds. ''The Fall of Reach'' describes a gigantic laser-plasma beam thingamajigger that is proven capable of slicing through human ships in one stroke. In all likelihood, this is probably a Covenant Energy Projector, which is a powerful particle accelerator weapon. While only Covenant capital ships equip these weapons for ship-to-ship combat, ships as small as the [[http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_destroyer Covenant Destroyer]] mount ventral energy projectors capable of glassing planets.
*** Halo both averts the trope and follows it faithfully, depending on the type of conflict being discussed. Kinetic weapons are superior at infantry scales, with the "best" gun in every Halo game being a human kinetic design (M6 Pistol, Battle Rifle, DMR, etc.). Then we get parity in power at vehicle scales. Finally, at humongous mecha scales or larger, energy weapons completely predominate. This is why over the course of the human-covenant war, the kinetic weapon humans won the ground wars, and the energy weapon using Covenant won the space wars. Unfortunately for the humans, the Covenant recognized their inferior ground army power and just took to glassing worlds from orbit.

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* ''Franchise/{{Halo}}'' is all over the place with this:
** The games are
set around 500 years in the future, with all the AI, Faster-than-light [=AIs=], faster-than-light spaceships, Spartan Lasers, heavy lasers, MagneticWeapons, artificial gravity systems systems, and powered armor suits, suits that come with TheFuture; however, the human UNSC military is still mostly fighting with weapons and vehicles not that much dissimilar to those of today: bigass tanks, buggies, warplanes, missiles, etc, to the point that the standard UNSC assault rifle's round is literally a conventional 20th century 7.62x51mm battle-rifle bullet. Most Nonetheless, these can still hold their own against the Covenant's more advanced energy weapons, and even do some damage to lower-grade [[{{Precursors}} Forerunner]] robots. Even after humanity upgrades its tech substantially after the end of the Covenant War, their military still mostly uses conventional ballistic weapons.
** While most
Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, but the Brute weapons in ''Halo 3'' from ''VideoGame/{{Halo 3}}'' onward tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. It is also mentioned, at least on [[http://www.halopedia.org/Jiralhanae#Culture this page]] In fact, ''VideoGame/{{Halo 2}}'' shows that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. Also, That said, even the regular Covenant arsenal includes exotic projectile weapons like the Needler and Carbine.
** Gameplay tends to zig-zag this. For the most part, players generally find human kinetic weapons (pistol, battle rifle, DMR, rocket launcher, etc.) to be superior to Covenant energy ones, in large part because the former's shots generally travel faster and farther; heck, even several of the most useful Covenant weapons to be the projectile-based ones. That said, while
UNSC weapons deal out more damage to unshielded opponents, although Covenant weapons bring down shields faster. A faster; a player who takes advantage of this fact with UNSC/Covenant combos can bring down enemies with ease.
ease. On the other hand, Forerunner weapons, which tend to use HardLight and other exotic energies, have been among the most powerful guns in the series since being introduced in ''VideoGame/{{Halo 4}}''.
** As shown noted earlier, the UNSC ''does'' have laser weaponry, the best known being the Spartan Laser introduced in ''{{VideoGame/Halo 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/HaloWars'', the UNSC has laser weaponry in the form of the Spartan Laser; 3}}''; it is a lot more powerful than normal human weaponry but it takes a long time to charge, uses up its battery quickly, and is tremendously expensive (costing as much as ''six Warthogs''), making it more of an Anti-tank anti-tank weapon than anything else.
** There's some aversion, though not entirely. Besides
else. Even in the Forerunner Halos, post-war era, human laser weapons are still rare and expensive.
** The defining example of this is
the UNSC Super MAC, which is an entire satellite that's just one massive [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun coilgun]], coilgun]]. It is one of the most destructive weapon non-Forerunner weapons in the entire known galaxy. Orion Arm. Upon impact with a fully shielded Covenant ship the Covenant ship, said ship promptly either explodes (it's speculated in-universe that a ship beneath a certain tonnage threshold would be outright ''vaporized'') or - more likely - has a humongous hole punched through it, as the hyperspeed shell maintains enough forward momentum to punch through a ''second'' ship, and possibly even keep going after that. That's what happens when you shoot a 3000-ton slug of ferric tungsten and depleted uranium at 12,000 kilometers per second (.04c). Some quick-and-dirty math means it's about 51.56 ''gigatons'', and if fired directly at a planet's surface, would likely it should theoretically cause cataclysmic damage, likely culminating in maybe even a mass extinction.
extinction; in practice, [[WritersCanNotDoMath the UNSC can use them to support ground troops just fine]]. The UNSC also has plenty of smaller-scale MagneticWeapons, like the vehicle-mounted Gauss Cannon, the infantry-scale Railgun, and the Stanchion anti-material sniper rifle.
** Although there may be an aversion to this trope, in that That said, while UNSC ground weapons can hold their own relatively well against their energy-based Covenant counterparts, Covenant ship-to-ship weapons prove are painfully effective in utterly annihilating human vessels, superior to their UNSC counterparts, capable of ''boiling'' away their a human ship's reinforced titanium hulls in seconds. ''The Fall of Reach'' seconds; ''Literature/HaloTheFallOfReach'' describes a gigantic laser-plasma beam thingamajigger Covenant energy projector that is proven capable of slicing through human ships in one stroke. In all likelihood, this is probably stroke, with ''Literature/HaloEscalation'' featuring a Covenant Energy Projector, which is a powerful particle accelerator weapon. While only Covenant capital ships equip these weapons for ship-to-ship combat, ships as small as the [[http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_destroyer Covenant Destroyer]] mount ventral energy projectors version capable of glassing planets.
*** Halo both averts the trope and follows it faithfully, depending on the type of conflict being discussed. Kinetic
crippling humanity's most advanced flagship with only one shot. In general lore-wise, while kinetic weapons are superior can hold their own at infantry and, to a lesser degree, terrestrial vehicle scales, with the "best" gun in every Halo game being a human kinetic design (M6 Pistol, Battle Rifle, DMR, etc.). Then we get parity in power advantage at vehicle scales. Finally, at humongous mecha scales or larger, HumongousMecha scale and above tends to go to energy weapons completely predominate. This weapons; this is part of why over the course of UNSC could put up a good fight on the human-covenant war, the kinetic weapon humans won the ground wars, and the energy weapon using Covenant won the space wars. Unfortunately for the humans, ground, but got their ass kicked by the Covenant recognized their inferior ground army power and just took to glassing worlds from orbit. in space.
5th Aug '16 6:12:32 PM steam66
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* ''Franchise/{{Halo}}'' is set around 500 years in the future, with all the AI, Faster-than-light spaceships, Spartan Lasers, artificial gravity systems and powered armor suits, that come with TheFuture; however, the human UNSC military is still fighting with weapons and vehicles not that much dissimilar to those of today: bigass tanks, buggies, warplanes, missiles, etc. Most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, but the Brute weapons in ''Halo 3'' tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. It is also mentioned, at least on [[http://www.halopedia.org/Jiralhanae#Culture this page]] that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. Also, UNSC weapons deal out more damage to unshielded opponents, although Covenant weapons bring down shields faster. A player who takes advantage of this fact with UNSC/Covenant combos can bring down enemies with ease.

to:

* ''Franchise/{{Halo}}'' is set around 500 years in the future, with all the AI, Faster-than-light spaceships, Spartan Lasers, artificial gravity systems and powered armor suits, that come with TheFuture; however, the human UNSC military is still fighting with weapons and vehicles not that much dissimilar to those of today: bigass tanks, buggies, warplanes, missiles, etc.etc, to the point that the standard UNSC assault rifle's round is literally a conventional 20th century 7.62x51mm battle-rifle bullet. Most Covenant weapons like the Plasma Pistol/Rifle are energy-based, but the Brute weapons in ''Halo 3'' tend to be projectile based, mainly because the Brutes enjoy being... [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment brutish]]. It is also mentioned, at least on [[http://www.halopedia.org/Jiralhanae#Culture this page]] that Brutes like human shotguns, for similar reasons. This stands in contrast to the attitude of the Elites, who hold human projectile weapons in contempt. Also, UNSC weapons deal out more damage to unshielded opponents, although Covenant weapons bring down shields faster. A player who takes advantage of this fact with UNSC/Covenant combos can bring down enemies with ease.
4th Aug '16 9:29:18 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' works more to put energy weapons and regular guns on equal footing, as it has perks and several high-tier energy weapons that are among the best guns in the game. Even default energy weapons will often have a Damage Threshold reduction effect, which means that they do more of their full damage to heavily armoured targets such as robots or {{de|monicSpiders}}athclaws. The only serious problem you may encounter when using energy weapons is that both guns and ammunition are uncommon and expensive.[[note]]And as said above, the "Vigilant Recycler" perk can lighten the ammo strain by giving you twice as much ammo for every drained cell and allowing you to craft your own ammo from the ammo you already have into "Optimized" cells which are far better. The Laser [=RCW=] also has a recyler mod that ignores the cost of every fourth shot of the rare Electron Charge Pack batteries.[[/note]]

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** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' works more to put energy weapons and regular guns on equal footing, as it has perks and several high-tier energy weapons that are among the best guns in the game. Even default energy weapons will often have a Damage Threshold reduction effect, which means that they do more of their full damage to heavily armoured targets such as robots or {{de|monicSpiders}}athclaws. The only serious problem you may encounter when using energy weapons is that both guns and ammunition are uncommon and expensive.[[note]]And as said above, [[note]]The ammo problem can be lessened by recycling spent ammo (4:1 for each ammo type) and the "Vigilant Recycler" perk can lighten the ammo strain by giving you twice as much ammo for every drained cell cell, lowering the cost to recycle (e.g. 3 energy cells for 1), and allowing you to craft your own ammo from the ammo you already have recycle them into "Optimized" cells ammo which are far better.is all around beter. The Laser [=RCW=] also has a recyler mod that ignores the cost of every fourth shot of the rare Electron Charge Pack batteries.[[/note]]
4th Aug '16 8:25:34 PM DastardlyDemolition
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** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' works more to put energy weapons and regular guns on equal footing, as it has perks and several high-tier energy weapons that are among the best guns in the game. Even default energy weapons will often have a Damage Threshold reduction effect, which means that they do more of their full damage to heavily armoured targets such as robots or {{de|monicSpiders}}athclaws. The only serious problem you may encounter when using energy weapons is that both guns and ammunition are uncommon and expensive.

to:

** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' works more to put energy weapons and regular guns on equal footing, as it has perks and several high-tier energy weapons that are among the best guns in the game. Even default energy weapons will often have a Damage Threshold reduction effect, which means that they do more of their full damage to heavily armoured targets such as robots or {{de|monicSpiders}}athclaws. The only serious problem you may encounter when using energy weapons is that both guns and ammunition are uncommon and expensive.[[note]]And as said above, the "Vigilant Recycler" perk can lighten the ammo strain by giving you twice as much ammo for every drained cell and allowing you to craft your own ammo from the ammo you already have into "Optimized" cells which are far better. The Laser [=RCW=] also has a recyler mod that ignores the cost of every fourth shot of the rare Electron Charge Pack batteries.[[/note]]
12th Jul '16 1:56:50 AM jormis29
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* ''[[VideoGame/{{Battlefield}} Battlefield 2142]]'' aside from the floating [[AirborneAircraftCarrier Titans]], the other air vehicles, hover tanks, speeders (for the PAC at least) the Goliath, the anti-ground vehicle and anti-aircraft emplacements, and gadgets you could unlock, the guns still slung lead. Hell, the side arm for the EU was a revolver which had a speedloader cylinder. The developers stated in interviews that a gun firing bullets "felt more real to them" than just "pew pew you're dead."

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* ''[[VideoGame/{{Battlefield}} Battlefield 2142]]'' ''VideoGame/Battlefield2142'' aside from the floating [[AirborneAircraftCarrier Titans]], the other air vehicles, hover tanks, speeders (for the PAC at least) the Goliath, the anti-ground vehicle and anti-aircraft emplacements, and gadgets you could unlock, the guns still slung lead. Hell, the side arm for the EU was a revolver which had a speedloader cylinder. The developers stated in interviews that a gun firing bullets "felt more real to them" than just "pew pew you're dead."
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