History Main / HardWorkHardlyWorks

3rd May '16 8:39:38 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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An alternative, [[strike:sometimes]] usually used as a HandWave, is that the protagonist ''did'' work hard for his abilities; '''offscreen'''. The BornWinner is in fact a ''survivor'' of TheSpartanWay, a DisposableSuperheroMaker which killed [[MillionToOneChance the other nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine subjects]], the [[LastOfHisKind genocide of his fellow]] {{Physical God}}s, etc. He just [[ThinkNothingOfIt doesn't like to talk about it]] or [[MosesInTheBullrushes doesn't know]]. Other times the training is done offscreen to avoid segments of {{Padding}}.

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An alternative, [[strike:sometimes]] usually used as a HandWave, is that the protagonist ''did'' work hard for his abilities; '''offscreen'''. The BornWinner is in fact a ''survivor'' of TheSpartanWay, a DisposableSuperheroMaker which killed [[MillionToOneChance the other nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine subjects]], the [[LastOfHisKind genocide of his fellow]] {{Physical God}}s, etc. He just [[ThinkNothingOfIt doesn't like to talk about it]] or [[MosesInTheBullrushes [[MosesInTheBulrushes doesn't know]]. Other times the training is done offscreen to avoid segments of {{Padding}}.
26th Apr '16 5:27:26 AM Tron80
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* ''Fanfic/TheSecondTry'': In “Raise”, Asuka remembers what she could never catch up with Shinji in spite of working hard to become the best. She also realizes that it doesn’t bother her or upset her anymore.
20th Apr '16 5:00:12 AM Tron80
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** It does help that the "Musabetsu Kakutō Saotome Ryū" (The Saotome School Of [[CombatPragmatist Combat Pragmatism]]) is actually absurdly simple - accent on ''absurd''. Its sole method of training is TrainingFromHell - [[TaughtByExperience By Experience]]. As in, survive stupid suicidal acts '''repeatedly'''. For example, Genma taught him how to fall from buildings without killing himself by throwing him off cliffs. He survived over a decade of this. [[TheSpartanWay Starting at age two.]] Result: The martial arts equivalent of ThePretender. If there's something he doesn't know how to do with his body already, he can come up with a suicidal training aid and fill the gap in a day or so.

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** It does help that the "Musabetsu Kakutō Saotome Ryū" (The Saotome School Of [[CombatPragmatist Combat Pragmatism]]) is actually absurdly simple - accent on ''absurd''. Its sole method of training is TrainingFromHell - [[TaughtByExperience By Experience]]. As in, survive stupid suicidal acts '''repeatedly'''. For example, Genma taught him how to fall from buildings without killing himself by throwing him off cliffs. He survived over a decade of this. [[TheSpartanWay Starting at age two.]] Result: The martial arts equivalent of ThePretender.''Series/ThePretender''. If there's something he doesn't know how to do with his body already, he can come up with a suicidal training aid and fill the gap in a day or so.
18th Apr '16 6:09:20 PM TARINunit9
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** It should be noted that Link has LeakedExperience from all his past lives. The first Links had to train long and hard, but the later ones retain it in a manner similar to muscle memory.

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** It should be noted that Link has LeakedExperience from all his past lives. The first Links had to train long and hard, but the later ones retain it in a manner similar to muscle memory. It should also be noted Link wasn't exactly goofing off to get those ten Knight's Crests.
18th Apr '16 6:06:42 PM TARINunit9
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* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'': Papyrus and Sans are royal guards for King Asgore. Papyrus takes his job seriously and practices constantly, both at work and at his cooking skills, but never seems to get any better at either of them. Sans bums around, flat-out ''refuses'' to do his job, and takes laziness to what other tropers describe as an art form; not only does he cook delicious hot dogs, [[spoiler:he is ''by far'' the strongest single entity on the planet, serving as the TrueFinalBoss of the KillEmAll ending. Only [[SatanicArchtype Chara]]'s and [[BadassNormal Frisk]]'s FusionDance can bring him down, and even then expect to die quite a few times before then.]] While we're on the subject, [[spoiler:the BigBad, Flowey, has spent a very, very, ''very'' long time trying to manipulate an EternalRecurrence to his favor, but no matter how much power he managed to usurp he's still weaker than Sans.]]

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* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'': Papyrus and Sans are royal guards for King Asgore. Papyrus takes his job seriously and practices constantly, both at work and at his cooking skills, but never seems to get any better at either of them. Sans bums around, flat-out ''refuses'' to do his job, and takes laziness to what other tropers describe as an art form; not only does he cook delicious hot dogs, [[spoiler:he is ''by far'' the strongest single entity on the planet, serving as the TrueFinalBoss of the KillEmAll ending. Only [[SatanicArchtype Chara]]'s and [[BadassNormal Frisk]]'s FusionDance can bring him down, and even then expect to die quite a few times before then.]] While we're on not thematically related, he's also stronger than [[spoiler: Flowey, the subject, [[spoiler:the BigBad, Flowey, who has spent a very, very, ''very'' long time century or two trying to manipulate an EternalRecurrence to his favor, but favor; the Fallen Child, the GreaterScopeVillain, who has been training in the afterlife about as long as Flowey; and the player character, who is required to go LevelGrinding no matter how much power he managed to usurp he's still weaker fewer than Sans.''nineteen'' levels to even be allowed to battle Sans. Only a FusionDance of Fallen Child and player character is enough to finally bring Sans down.]]
18th Apr '16 5:50:10 PM TARINunit9
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* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'': Papyrus and Sans are royal guards for King Asgore. Papyrus takes his job seriously and practices constantly, both at work and at his cooking skills, but never seems to get any better at either of them. Sans bums around, flat-out ''refuses'' to do his job, and takes laziness to what other tropers describe as an art form; not only does he cook delicious hot dogs, [[spoiler:he is ''by far'' the strongest entity on the planet, the TrueFinalBoss of the KillEmAll ending.]] While we're on the subject, [[spoiler:BigBad Flowey has spent a very, very, very long time trying to manipulate an EternalRecurrence to his favor, but no matter how much power he managed to usurp he's still weaker than Sans.]]

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* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'': Papyrus and Sans are royal guards for King Asgore. Papyrus takes his job seriously and practices constantly, both at work and at his cooking skills, but never seems to get any better at either of them. Sans bums around, flat-out ''refuses'' to do his job, and takes laziness to what other tropers describe as an art form; not only does he cook delicious hot dogs, [[spoiler:he is ''by far'' the strongest single entity on the planet, serving as the TrueFinalBoss of the KillEmAll ending.ending. Only [[SatanicArchtype Chara]]'s and [[BadassNormal Frisk]]'s FusionDance can bring him down, and even then expect to die quite a few times before then.]] While we're on the subject, [[spoiler:BigBad Flowey [[spoiler:the BigBad, Flowey, has spent a very, very, very ''very'' long time trying to manipulate an EternalRecurrence to his favor, but no matter how much power he managed to usurp he's still weaker than Sans.]]
18th Apr '16 5:28:36 PM TARINunit9
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}'': Papyrus and Sans are royal guards for King Asgore. Papyrus takes his job seriously and practices constantly, both at work and at his cooking skills, but never seems to get any better at either of them. Sans bums around, flat-out ''refuses'' to do his job, and takes laziness to what other tropers describe as an art form; not only does he cook delicious hot dogs, [[spoiler:he is ''by far'' the strongest entity on the planet, the TrueFinalBoss of the KillEmAll ending.]] While we're on the subject, [[spoiler:BigBad Flowey has spent a very, very, very long time trying to manipulate an EternalRecurrence to his favor, but no matter how much power he managed to usurp he's still weaker than Sans.]]
10th Apr '16 1:14:27 PM SSJMagus
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** It's stated by Aizen that Shinigami have a specific limit to how powerful they can get which is determined long before they even start trying to get stronger, and it's implied that this applies to hollows as well. This trope [[DiscussedTrope was even discussed]] by Grimmjow's minions who, after eating thousands of hollows to try to advance to the highest hollow stage, noted that their growth just completely stopped at some point.

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** It's stated by Aizen that Shinigami have a specific limit to how powerful they can get which is determined long before they even start trying to get stronger, and it's implied that this applies to hollows Hollows as well. This trope [[DiscussedTrope was even discussed]] by Grimmjow's minions who, after eating thousands of hollows Hollows to try to advance to the highest hollow stage, noted that their growth just completely stopped at some point.point. This was part of Aizen's motivation to create the [[MacGuffin Hougyoku]], which can alter both Shinigami and Hollows to erase those predetermined limits, either by turning them into Shinigami/Hollow hybrids or in his own case by transcending both types of power.



** Really, anyone who isn't Goku (and to a lesser extent, Gohan) falls victim to this trope. Piccolo, despite having no family or friends to distract from his constant training, and at one point being STRONGER than the Saiyans during the Android Saga, is nowhere near as strong any time afterwards.

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** Really, anyone who isn't Goku (and to a lesser extent, Gohan) falls victim to this trope. Piccolo, despite having no family or friends to distract from his constant training, training (the only person he spends any time with is Gohan, and essentially all the time they spend together ''is'' training), and at one point being STRONGER than the Saiyans during the Android Saga, is nowhere near as strong any time afterwards.afterwards. By the time of ''[[Anime/DragonBallZResurrectionF Resurrection 'F']]'', Vegeta has managed to restore himself to relevance, but the non-Saiyans are still little better than mooks no matter how hard they train.



*** It should be noted that Lee is hardly talentless. Sure his talent with the more traditional ninja arts are non-existent. However, it is also said by Kakashi there is no way hard work alone can get you to open five gates at age 13. Lee's case is really a person whose talent is not discovered by lesser teachers and he later run into a teacher that recognize his real talent and applied the appropriate training methode for that talent. Naruto (and possibly his earlier reincarnations) is more or less the same thing. Basically, hard work is important, but to get to the very top or close to it, you need BOTH talent and hard work.

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*** It should be noted that Lee is hardly talentless. Sure his talent with the more traditional ninja arts are non-existent. However, it is also said by Kakashi there is no way hard work alone can get you to open five gates at age 13. Lee's case is really a person whose talent is not discovered by lesser teachers and he later run into a teacher that recognize his real talent and applied the appropriate training methode method for that talent. Naruto (and possibly his earlier reincarnations) is more or less the same thing. Basically, hard work is important, but to get to the very top or close to it, you need BOTH talent and hard work.



** The titular character pingpongs between both ends. On the one hand, he starts the series as a talentless loser who's only saving grace is insane amounts of stamina. On the other hand, we learn that his parents were both highly skilled ninja and the Kyuubi implanted in him makes incredibly strong, and is the reason for his incredible stamina in the first place. However, learning to control the Kyuubi's chakra was a long, dangerous process and [[spoiler: the Sage of Six Paths]] has pointed out that incredible parents don't always pass down their talent. However, in earlier chapters Tsunade said that Naruto's ninjutsu style is like his mother's (we never really saw Kushina fight) and its been noted a few times that he also inherited her strong chakra genes to make it even possible for him to control the Kyuubi chakra. Naruto will frequently undergo TrainingFromHell which would seem like an aversion, but he often gains extraordinary power from it that no one else could or would get and in some cases he uses his aforementioned incredible stamina to take shortcuts that wouldn't be available to use for other people. Finally, he's TheChosenOne who is destined to succeed through hard work, as paradoxical as that sounds. At the end, he and Sasuke only succeed [[spoiler:due to a literal DeusExMachina in the form of the Sage Of Six Paths inexplicably showing up and giving both of them a power up due to them being the reincarnations of his sons.]]

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** The titular character pingpongs between both ends. On the one hand, he starts the series as a talentless loser who's only saving grace is insane amounts of stamina. On the other hand, we learn that his parents were both highly skilled ninja and the Kyuubi implanted in him makes incredibly strong, and is the reason for his incredible stamina in the first place. However, learning to control the Kyuubi's chakra was a long, dangerous process and [[spoiler: the Sage of Six Paths]] has pointed out that incredible parents don't always pass down their talent. However, in earlier chapters Tsunade said that Naruto's ninjutsu style is like his mother's (we never really saw Kushina fight) and its been noted a few times that he also inherited her strong chakra genes to make it even possible for him to control the Kyuubi chakra. [[note]]Though he didn't inherit his mother's powerful "[[ChainPain chakra chains]]" ability; instead his distant cousin Karin spontaneously manifests that ability.[[/note]] Naruto will frequently undergo TrainingFromHell which would seem like an aversion, but he often gains extraordinary power from it that no one else could or would get and in some cases he uses his aforementioned incredible stamina to take shortcuts that wouldn't be available to use for other people. Finally, he's TheChosenOne who is destined to succeed through hard work, as paradoxical as that sounds. At the end, he and Sasuke only succeed [[spoiler:due to a literal DeusExMachina in the form of the Sage Of Six Paths inexplicably showing up and giving both of them a power up due to them being the reincarnations of his sons.]]



** And then we have [[AwesomeMcCoolname Might Guy]] to provide the ultimate subversion: as a child he was so talentless he ''failed the academy entrance exam'' the first time around and couldn't use ninjutsu and genjutsu, but by the time we met him his training had enabled him to use ninjutsu and made him one of Konoha's top shinobi. And when he uses [[DangerousForbiddenTechnique the Eight Gates]], he becomes capable of [[spoiler: warping space ''with a kick'']]. Hard Work is partly what made Gai strong enough to knock around [[spoiler: Uchiha Madara, the guy who Curbstomped all five living Kage at the same time]] like a ''ragdoll.'' Other factors were [[spoiler: Madara]] holding back against Gai. Along with Mintao, Gaara, Kakashi, and Lee helped nerfed him. Still, it's enough for [[spoiler: Madara]] to declare him the greatest Taijutsu master he has ever faced, and give him more respect than the entire Shinobi Alliance.

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** And then we have [[AwesomeMcCoolname Might Guy]] to provide the ultimate subversion: as a child he was so talentless he ''failed the academy entrance exam'' the first time around and couldn't use ninjutsu and genjutsu, but by the time we met him his training had enabled him to use ninjutsu and made him one of Konoha's top shinobi. And when he uses [[DangerousForbiddenTechnique the Eight Gates]], he becomes capable of [[spoiler: warping space ''with a kick'']]. Hard Work is partly what made Gai strong enough to knock around [[spoiler: Uchiha Madara, the guy who Curbstomped all five living Kage at the same time]] like a ''ragdoll.'' Other factors were [[spoiler: Madara]] holding back against Gai. Along with Mintao, Minato, Gaara, Kakashi, and Lee helped nerfed him. Still, it's enough for [[spoiler: Madara]] to declare him the greatest Taijutsu master he has ever faced, and give him more respect than the entire Shinobi Alliance. In fact, Gai is one of only two people [[spoiler:Madara]] ''ever'' considered a worthy opponent.
5th Apr '16 4:23:23 AM batty3108
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* Can be Played Straight at first, then Averted in later life in the case of people with naturally high intelligence. In the early years of education, they're able to get away without studying much, or at all, relying on their natural ability to retain, process and regurgitate information learned in classrooms. As they get to higher learning, where research and independent study become necessary to succeed, students who didn't take the time to develop these skills will find themselves overtaken by (comparatively) less intelligent, but harder working peers.
29th Mar '16 9:20:57 PM Ninja857142
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--->'''Shifu:''' Wait, where did you get that?\\
'''Po:''' Oh, [[spoiler: Master Oogway]] gave it to me.\\

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--->'''Shifu:''' Wait, The student has truly become the teach--wait, where did you get that?\\
'''Po:''' Oh, this? [[spoiler: Master Oogway]] gave it to me.me [[spoiler: in the Spirit Realm]].\\



'''Po:''' And, apparently [[spoiler: I'm a Master of Chi.]]\\
'''Shifu:''' ...''Ohhh...''
* In ''WesternAnimation/MonstersUniversity'', due to hard studying at an early age, Mike has more technical knowledge than any other student but lacks the size and appearance to be scary.

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'''Po:''' And, apparently I think I [[spoiler: I'm a Master of Chi.mastered chi.]]\\
'''Shifu:''' ...''Ohhh...''
'' of course you did.
* In ''WesternAnimation/MonstersUniversity'', due ''WesternAnimation/MonstersUniversity'':
** Due
to hard studying at an early age, Mike has more technical knowledge than any other student but lacks the size and appearance to be scary.



*** Its also ZigZagged with Mike, as while he studies hard and still isn't able to be scary, he acquires an encyclopaedic knowledge of just what it means to be scary, and all the diverse ways, which helps him improve others. Also, by the end of WesternAnimation/MonstersInc [[spoiler:the switch from screams to laughter means that Mike finds success in a similar field]].

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*** ** Its also ZigZagged with Mike, as while he studies hard and still isn't able to be scary, he acquires an encyclopaedic encyclopedic knowledge of just what it means to be scary, and all the diverse ways, which helps him improve others. Also, by the end of WesternAnimation/MonstersInc [[spoiler:the switch from screams to laughter means that Mike finds success in a similar field]].
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