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21st May '13 1:44:47 PM Gizbit99

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This trope probably fits better

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18th May '13 3:49:11 PM FoominBlue

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[[folder:VisualNovels]]
* Used as a plot point in the Hentai VisualNovel ''Season of the Sakura''. The PlayerCharacter is naturally talented at practically every sport (the sole exception being swimming, due to severe hydrophobia), and decided to try and be the "school hero" by trying out for every team and leading the school to victory. Unfortunately, he quickly learned that his classmates hated him because they had to work hard to get where they were, and him flaunting his skills came off as egotism. It got so bad that he transferred schools and he made a promise to himself that he would't participate in any sport until he can found someone better than himself - which is the point where the game begins.
* ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa'''s Ishimaru wants to prove this isn't true at all.  While he attends the elite Hope's Peak Academy, he notably reacts poorly to being called a 'genius', as he connects that term with the concept of being ''born'' with talent as opposed to working hard for it.
* ''VisualNovel/SuperDanganRonpa2'', on the other hand, features Komaeda, who [[UnreliableNarrator appears to]] wholeheartedly believe that the only way to have any sort of talent is to be born with it.  He [[DissonantSerenity cheerfully claims]] that anyone with an Super High School Level skill is automatically just plain ''better'' than anyone who might try building up their abilities through hard work and practice.
[[/folder]]

14th May '13 10:49:03 PM Malimar

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14th May '13 4:40:40 AM fakescorpion

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This is Square Peg Round Trope, Devil Fruit power is more a case of Superpower Lottery instead of innate talent. The example itself said it is both "played straight and averted," when it is both concerning the same character, it is neither.

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* OnePiece Played straight and averted in the case of Luffy. It's shown he gets stronger throughout his various battles plus in order to use his powers for fighting he had to train extensively. But later he learns Gear Second and Third, abilities which increase his strength and speed in different ways which only could be made possible due to his powers. Gear Second was even [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] by Lucci who said if it weren't for Luffy's rubber fruit his heart would explode. It should also be noted that Gear Second was the only reason Luffy won against Lucci, the latter kicking his ass un-transformed before Luffy used it in their fight. Played straight again in Luffy's case later on when he fights opponents who are just BadassNormal like some of the vice admirals and Mihawk yet still gets his ass kicked in spite of his powers.
** ZigZaggingTrope with some of the other characters like the higher ups in the marines like the admirals when it's never said whether some of their abilities are due to their powers or in that they have DF abilities yet use techniques that most people could use such as a:
*** Zoan DF Vice Admiral who knows Rokushiki
*** Aokiji who possesses great speed
*** Kizaru who was able to match [[BadAss Rayleigh]] in a swordfight.
** Then there's Garp, who had been nominated for [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking an Admiral position]] despite [[BadassNormal having no Devil Fruit powers.]]

14th May '13 4:34:35 AM fakescorpion

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This section is turning into a discussion, thus it is removed and archived in the Discussion of this page.

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*** According to the fanbook, Kishimoto wanted to use Lee to send a message in support of hard work, as he felt that it wasn't seen as "cool". While this does fly in the face of Lee's repeated losses, 1.) Lee initially wasn't even very good at taijutsu, so he'd be doing even worse if he didn't try (fans tend to forget that Rock Lee has only been training incredibly hard since he met Guy a couple years ago), and 2.) It's noted that hard work isn't everything, as Guy tells Lee that he also has to believe in himself (According to Kurenai, Hinata also worked very hard, but failed at missions because of her lack of self-confidence) 3.) Lee is the poster ninja for hard work, but not the only hard-working one -- Sasuke, Hinata, Neji and even Naruto are shown at various points working very hard.
** Technically, Manga/{{Naruto}} avoids this one more often than plays it straight. Very few ninja simply [[BiggerStick rely on natural gifts and talents to win]], compared to those who rely on hard work. However, this is offset by the fact that the absolute best ninjas (not to mention a lot of the major characters) got to where they are by winning the SuperPowerLottery, having TheGift, or being CursedWithAwesome (or some combination thereof).
*** Some, such as Naruto, do train quite hard as well, but Naruto's efforts tend to pay off FAR more than (say) Lee's, meaning a lot less training overall.
*** It might be argued that Naruto uses Kage Bunshin/Shadow Clone to train. Using this technique allows him to compress ''years of training'' into a couple of days because he is able to create thousands of clones. While it is ''fast'' it is not at all ''easy'', as he not only has to feel the physical strain of one work out session, but the mental strain of thousands. However, this method has only been used twice in the entire series, and only once of those two times has he used an absurdly large number of clones, this being when he was trying to create his Futon Rasengan. Meanwhile, using a grand total of two clones, Naruto was able to completely master [[spoiler:[[SuperMode Sage Mode]]]] in maybe a month, where Jiraiya couldn't master it in over 30 years of being one of the greatest ninja to have ever lived.
** This trope also applies to Naruto himself to some extent. The new powers and abilities he gets from his umpteen TrainingFromHell arcs still fall well short of the new techniques Sasuke either is gifted/steals or [[OffscreenVillainDarkmatter learns offscreen]].
** The situation of Naruto's skills versus Sasuke's has a lot of interesting twists; first, Sasuke, who has been a talented shinobi since birth, turns to evil because Naruto, who was a loser until very recently, has begun to surpass him and he fears his hard work will be insufficient to achieve the {{Revenge}} he is after. Sasuke proceeds to completely outstrip Naruto in every way over the TimeSkip, but it is mentioned a big part of this is abusing the curse seal that artificially raised his powers, using Orochimaru's performance-enhancing drugs, and relying heavily on the powers of his Sharingan eyes, which he's always had and dramatically increase any ninja's combat prowess. Deidara taunts Sasuke at one point for confusing his SuperpowerfulGenetics with his own power, although he proceeds to lose almost entirely due to Sasuke having the Sharingan. However, as Sasuke continues to progress by using his Sharingan's inborn powers as a crutch for actual skill and hard work, it's implied that the incredibly dangerous TrainingFromHell Naruto needs to do from his powers has made Naruto the stronger of the two again. Most fans still find the failure of ''everyone else's'' hard work a bitter pill to swallow, though.
*** The most bitter pill, however, is the complete reversal of the series' supposed moral. In first half of the series, the idea was that no matter who you or your parents were, no matter how much inborn talent you had (assuming you had any) - everyone has the potential to be truly great if only they worked hard at it, and that there were no shortcuts to true greatness. Sasuke was gifted from the very beginning, with a special lineage with special powers and a knack for the shinobi arts, while Naruto had to fight to get anything his peers understood quickly on top of the curse being the host of the Nine-tailed Fox. However, Naruto himself has turned this on its head: he has his own special lineage in terms of both genetics and the legacy of the hosts, special stamina that allows him to use a special technique that lets him skip months if not years of normal training so that he can learn more special techniques, AND of all the Tailed Beasts he could have hosted, his is the most special and powerful of all.
*** His standard fighting style of "producing shadow clones to overwhelm the opponent" is only possible due to his super special genetic lineage granting him much more chakra than your normal ninja. And his current power-up is entirely reliant on having/befriending Kurama.
** Reaches its ultimate conclusion during the war against [[spoiler: Madara and co. Lee, firmly established as utterly irrelevant by this point, is given a free hyper-charge of kyubi chakra by Naruto and proceeds to kick Madara in half. The same Madara that is, by an obscenely wide margin, one of the strongest characters in the series hands down. In the few seconds that Lee obtained power '''for free''', he managed to level up from being an insect to someone who would've defeated Madara if it weren't for the latter's Edo Tensei regeneration. There's HardWorkHardlyWorks and then there's Rock Lee.]]

14th May '13 4:17:44 AM fakescorpion

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Not a chat page. If the example is wrong, delete it. The part about Kaiba is a different Trope entirely.

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11th May '13 11:18:00 AM Eagal

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10th May '13 12:08:08 PM hyphz

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10th May '13 11:17:58 AM bassforte123