History Main / HArdWorkHardlyWorks

3rd Feb '18 11:25:28 AM nombretomado
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* When Daniel Jackson got the gate to work in the ''Film/{{Stargate}}'' movie, he was told that he "solved in fourteen days what they couldn't solve in two years". The military's trouble, and Jackson's initial 2 weeks of utter lack of progress was due to the fact that both assumed the symbols on the Stargate were a letters of a language that translated into something. Jackson only solved it through a EurekaMoment, realising the symbols were actually constellations, and the set of symbols represented a way of plotting coordinates in 3d space. There's some debate over whether the military ought to have stumbled on the relatively simple answer even without understanding how it worked, [[{{natter}} but that's all that we'll say about it here.]]

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* When Daniel Jackson got the gate to work in the ''Film/{{Stargate}}'' movie, he was told that he "solved in fourteen days what they couldn't solve in two years". The military's trouble, and Jackson's initial 2 weeks of utter lack of progress was due to the fact that both assumed the symbols on the Stargate were a letters of a language that translated into something. Jackson only solved it through a EurekaMoment, realising the symbols were actually constellations, and the set of symbols represented a way of plotting coordinates in 3d space. There's some debate over whether the military ought to have stumbled on the relatively simple answer even without understanding how it worked, [[{{natter}} [[Administrivia/ConversationInTheMainPage but that's all that we'll say about it here.]]
31st Dec '17 12:38:51 PM ImpudentInfidel
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** In the sequel series, ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', this is played straight and subverted in different situations. Tenzin studies spirit lore for ''decades'' and it gets him exactly nowhere in regards to actual spirits, yet his eleven-year-old daughter has a natural connection to the spirit world ''and'' sufficient Airbending skill that she's nearly as good as her father. On the other hand, while Zaheer can sledgehammer almost any bender in a one-on-one fight despite having only been one for a few months, it turns out this is because even before [[spoiler:Harmonic Convergence]] he was a talented martial artist and simply adapted his style to include [[spoiler:airbending]]; when he does come up against someone who has been studying the same bending style for decades, it's only the intervention of his allies that prevents [[spoiler:Tenzin]] from destroying Zaheer.

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** In the sequel series, ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', this is played straight and subverted in different situations. Tenzin studies spirit lore for ''decades'' and it gets him exactly nowhere in regards to actual spirits, yet his eleven-year-old daughter has a natural connection to the spirit world ''and'' sufficient Airbending skill that she's nearly as good as her father. On the other hand, while Zaheer can sledgehammer almost any bender in a one-on-one fight despite having only been one for a few months, it turns out this is because even before [[spoiler:Harmonic Convergence]] he was a talented martial artist and simply adapted his style to include [[spoiler:airbending]]; when he had also been reading the philosophy behind it for years beforehand by complete coincidence, and gets a lot of mileage from using extremely obscure abilities he learned of in this study. When he does come up against someone who has been studying the same bending style for decades, it's only the intervention of his allies that prevents [[spoiler:Tenzin]] from destroying Zaheer.
19th Dec '17 2:24:20 PM MarqFJA
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* ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. Asuka is sent over the edge when Shinji's sync ratio got higher than hers even when she trained as a pilot for years. Then we found out why: it's basically revealed that Asuka was essentially piloting an Eva all wrong. The fact that she managed the highest sync ratio for any period of time is impressive and Asuka is still a better pilot than Shinji anyway. The main problem being that the series is Evangelion, where everything will always go wrong.

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* ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion''. Asuka is sent over the edge when Shinji's sync ratio got higher than hers even when she trained as a pilot for years. Then we found out why: it's basically revealed that Asuka figuratively "walling off" her heart from everyone (to avoid being hurt again) also caused her to shut out Eva-02 in all her attempts to synchronize with it[[spoiler:'s resident soul, which just so happens to be that of her dead mother]], thus she was essentially piloting an Eva all wrong. The fact that she managed the highest sync ratio for any period of time is impressive impressive, and Asuka is still a better pilot than Shinji in terms of self-discipline and practical skill anyway. The main problem being that the series is Evangelion, ''Neon Genesis Evangelion'', where everything will always go wrong.wrong (unless you're in a LighterAndSofter spin-off).
17th Dec '17 10:45:30 AM DustSnitch
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* Subverted in ''Manga/HunterXHunter''. While natural talent grant you significant edge over untalented individuals, one still must train extremely hard to get results. Chief of the Hunter Association [[BadassGrandpa Netero]] stated that human potential is ''limitless'' and we know that [[FunctionalMagic nen]] can prevent aging. So, theoretically, a talentless person will require much more time to catch up, but eventually ''will'' catch up.

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* Subverted in ''Manga/HunterXHunter''. While natural talent grant you significant edge over untalented individuals, one still must train extremely hard to get results. Chief of the Hunter Association [[BadassGrandpa Netero]] Netero stated that human potential is ''limitless'' and we know that [[FunctionalMagic nen]] can prevent aging. So, theoretically, a talentless person will require much more time to catch up, but eventually ''will'' catch up.



** In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker'', local BadassGrandpa Orca teaches Link the Hurricane Spin, a technique gained by gathering ten Knight's Crests (a feat in and of itself) - and lots of practice. Before performing the technique, he'll mention that it took him years to become so accomplished and that age caught up to him before he could fully realize his dream. He's moved to tears upon witnessing Link execute it flawlessly in a matter of seconds. This trope is also played with in ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess'' where the Hero's Shade teaches the new Link several techniques called the "Hidden Skills." Although he will patiently review them until Link (i.e. the player) gets them right, he makes it clear that Link's status as TheHero means this trope should be in full effect and only shows approval after Link masters them appropriately.

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** In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker'', local BadassGrandpa mentor Orca teaches Link the Hurricane Spin, a technique gained by gathering ten Knight's Crests (a feat in and of itself) - and lots of practice. Before performing the technique, he'll mention that it took him years to become so accomplished and that age caught up to him before he could fully realize his dream. He's moved to tears upon witnessing Link execute it flawlessly in a matter of seconds. This trope is also played with in ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess'' where the Hero's Shade teaches the new Link several techniques called the "Hidden Skills." Although he will patiently review them until Link (i.e. the player) gets them right, he makes it clear that Link's status as TheHero means this trope should be in full effect and only shows approval after Link masters them appropriately.
11th Dec '17 7:22:02 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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* *In ''VideoGame/Persona3'', ''VideoGame/Persona4'', and ''VideoGame/Persona5'', this is averted when it comes to increasing your character's non-combat statistics. Before exams, you'll need to have studied quite regularly to get the most out of it, and one of the characters in ''Persona 3'' even tells you that studying a bit each day rather than just cramming will go further.

to:

* *In ** In ''VideoGame/Persona3'', ''VideoGame/Persona4'', and ''VideoGame/Persona5'', this is averted when it comes to increasing your character's non-combat statistics. Before exams, you'll need to have studied quite regularly to get the most out of it, and one of the characters in ''Persona 3'' even tells you that studying a bit each day rather than just cramming will go further.



* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker'', local BadassGrandpa Orca teaches Link the Hurricane Spin, a technique gained by gathering ten Knight's Crests (a feat in and of itself) - and lots of practice. Before performing the technique, he'll mention that it took him years to become so accomplished and that age caught up to him before he could fully realize his dream. He's moved to tears upon witnessing Link execute it flawlessly in a matter of seconds. This trope is also played with in ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess'' where the Hero's Shade teaches the new Link several techniques called the "Hidden Skills." Although he will patiently review them until Link (i.e. the player) gets them right, he makes it clear that Link's status as TheHero means this trope should be in full effect and only shows approval after Link masters them appropriately.

to:

* ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'':
**
In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker'', local BadassGrandpa Orca teaches Link the Hurricane Spin, a technique gained by gathering ten Knight's Crests (a feat in and of itself) - and lots of practice. Before performing the technique, he'll mention that it took him years to become so accomplished and that age caught up to him before he could fully realize his dream. He's moved to tears upon witnessing Link execute it flawlessly in a matter of seconds. This trope is also played with in ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess'' where the Hero's Shade teaches the new Link several techniques called the "Hidden Skills." Although he will patiently review them until Link (i.e. the player) gets them right, he makes it clear that Link's status as TheHero means this trope should be in full effect and only shows approval after Link masters them appropriately.
11th Dec '17 7:20:59 PM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' this is averted when it comes to increasing your character's non-combat statistics. Before exams in Persona 3, you'll need to have studied quite regularly to get the most out of it, and one of the characters even tells you that studying a bit each day rather than just cramming will go further.
** Played straight at one point in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' though. You can try talking to disstressed Junpei a few days before the exams, which makes him [[LampshadeHanging sarcastically note that it seems the only thing you do is just walk around talking to people]]...which you actually find yourself doing. And given the protagonist really seems to be successful in whatever he does, you can totally understand Junpei's grudge.
** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 2}}'' zigzags this, as it does work largely like "any RPG" as mentioned above - you go from normal high school student (or magazine editor, or cop, or whatever) to monster-slaying, god-enslaving, world-saving badass in what might generously be two weeks. However, some of your biggest foes are other people who have been granted immense power... and used it as a crutch to lord over others. So all your [[LevelGrinding hard work]] lets you kick them in the face. Seemingly played straight again at the end of ''Innocent Sin'', where you [[spoiler:beat up Nyarlathotep, except shortly thereafter Nyarlathotep reveals he was just playing down to your level and isn't remotely inconvenienced, then goes on to end the world while you just stand by exhausted from the fight. No, you didn't just Punch Out Cthu- er, Nyarlathotep like you thought you did, and it takes another god's intervention to turn back time]]. Played more straight in the end of ''Eternal Punishment'', though the hard work ''has'' been put in twice over by some people, this time. Though all this is probably Justified because the collective unconscious is reshaping the world, meaning heroes can rise up out of nothing because enough people believe they can.

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' ''[[Franchise/ShinMegamiTenseiPersona Persona]]'':
* *In ''VideoGame/Persona3'', ''VideoGame/Persona4'',
and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'' ''VideoGame/Persona5'', this is averted when it comes to increasing your character's non-combat statistics. Before exams in Persona 3, exams, you'll need to have studied quite regularly to get the most out of it, and one of the characters in ''Persona 3'' even tells you that studying a bit each day rather than just cramming will go further.
** Played straight at one point in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' ''3'' though. You can try talking to disstressed Junpei a few days before the exams, which makes him [[LampshadeHanging sarcastically note that it seems the only thing you do is just walk around talking to people]]...which you actually find yourself doing. And given the protagonist really seems to be successful in whatever he does, you can totally understand Junpei's grudge.
** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 2}}'' ''VideoGame/Persona2'' zigzags this, as it does work largely like "any RPG" as mentioned above - you go from normal high school student (or magazine editor, or cop, or whatever) to monster-slaying, god-enslaving, world-saving badass in what might generously be two weeks. However, some of your biggest foes are other people who have been granted immense power... and used it as a crutch to lord over others. So all your [[LevelGrinding hard work]] lets you kick them in the face. Seemingly played straight again at the end of ''Innocent Sin'', where you [[spoiler:beat up Nyarlathotep, except shortly thereafter Nyarlathotep reveals he was just playing down to your level and isn't remotely inconvenienced, then goes on to end the world while you just stand by exhausted from the fight. No, you didn't just Punch Out Cthu- er, Nyarlathotep like you thought you did, and it takes another god's intervention to turn back time]]. Played more straight in the end of ''Eternal Punishment'', though the hard work ''has'' been put in twice over by some people, this time. Though all this is probably Justified because the collective unconscious is reshaping the world, meaning heroes can rise up out of nothing because enough people believe they can.
6th Dec '17 6:09:00 PM nmn3r3
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* ''VisualNovel/SuperDanganRonpa2'', on the other hand, features Komaeda, who [[UnreliableNarrator appears to]] wholeheartedly believe that the only way to have any sort of talent is to be born with it. He [[DissonantSerenity cheerfully claims]] that anyone with an Super High School Level skill is automatically just plain ''better'' than anyone who might try building up their abilities through hard work and practice.

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* ** ''VisualNovel/SuperDanganRonpa2'', on the other hand, features Komaeda, who [[UnreliableNarrator appears to]] wholeheartedly believe that the only way to have any sort of talent is to be born with it. He [[DissonantSerenity cheerfully claims]] that anyone with an Super High School Level skill is automatically just plain ''better'' than anyone who might try building up their abilities through hard work and practice.practice.
** In the bonus modes of ''VisualNovel/NewDanganRonpaV3'', the two actually meet and argue about this. Ishimaru declares he wants to make a world where hard work matters and people don't rely only on those with talent. Komaeda simply doesn't comprehend what he's talking about and focuses only on the hope that Ishimaru can bring to people.
-->'''Ishimaru:''' Something tells me we're not having the same discussion here...
23rd Nov '17 11:29:19 PM TheBigBopper
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* Averted for most [[UsefulNotes/ProfessionalGaming E-Sports professional gamers]]. Many of them spent countless hours playing a game to master it before competing in tournaments. They often times do nothing but spend all day-and-night playing the same game, only pausing for bathroom breaks and eating. And some of them forget to eat altogether. They also eat a lot of sugar and drink a lot of caffeine or energy drinks to stay awake and lose countless hours of sleep. In the case of games where you pick separate characters (like fighting games) or classes (like shooters and role playing games), you'll have gamers spend thousands of hours playing one character or class, unlike most people who'll only play each class for a certain amount of hours before getting bored and moving on to the next game.

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* Averted for most [[UsefulNotes/ProfessionalGaming E-Sports professional gamers]]. Many of them spent countless hours playing a game to master it before competing in tournaments. They often times do nothing but spend all day-and-night playing the same game, only pausing for bathroom breaks and eating. And some of them forget to eat altogether. They also eat a lot of sugar and drink a lot of caffeine or energy drinks to stay awake and lose countless hours of sleep. In the case of games where you pick separate characters (like fighting games) or classes (like shooters and role playing games), you'll have gamers spend thousands of hours playing one character or class, unlike most people who'll only play each class for a certain amount number of hours before getting bored and moving on to the next game.
4th Nov '17 8:57:32 AM Jeduthun
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Added DiffLines:

** Gladwell has pointed out in interviews that it's often overlooked that his point about 10,000 hours is meant to support a larger point: No one could possibly devote 10,000 hours of work to a single task unless they have a solid support system in place. Practice may make perfect, but it doesn't pay the bills.
1st Nov '17 7:37:39 PM darkemyst
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** Ron doesn't excel at school subjects or sports because he's playing Wizard Chess, which he excels at.

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** Ron doesn't excel at school subjects or sports because he's playing Wizard Chess, which he excels at.at and he eventually becomes an excellent Quidditch Keeper and his grades are mostly passable to good, he's just OvershadowedByAwesome.
** Neville seems to be playing this straight until ''Literature/HarryPotterAndTheOrderOfThePhoenix''. Give Neville a reason to work, and he will give you results. When Bellatrix Lestrange escaped from Azkaban Neville was given sufficient reason to become a fighter; his subsequent focus and training caused him to improve himself almost as fast as ''Hermione'' and Harry considered this sudden change to be quite alarming. This was also the book in which it was revealed he'd been using a wand that hadn't chosen him meaning he'd had the distinct disadvantage of dealing with a wand that was fighting him this whole time.
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