History Main / Gambitroulette

3rd May '16 3:50:34 AM SeaRover
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3rd May '16 3:48:19 AM SeaRover
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* The antagonists plans in ''Cries Unheard'' (a ''Anime/LuckyStar'' fanfic) could have been pulled off successfully, and they'd still be alive, if they had been a lot smarter about it instead of relying on everything preceding their only-inevitable demises to fall favorably for them. How does Satoshi know that Minami and her friends won't suspect him, charming as he may have been the previous day, of killing her dog Cherry? How does Riku know Kagami won't drop her infatuation for him and slap him for touching her hair, or suspect him of stalking her when she takes Tsukasa out shopping? Kagami and Tsukasa's ''real'' character dictates that there should not have been any tension between them that ''did'' result from Kagami "ignoring" her (read: Tsukasa just standing on the sidelines and feeling sorry for herself or thinking that Kagami doesn't love her anymore just because she's got a boyfriend now), which in turn would negate Kenji's efforts to keep those two on any questionable terms. What drives Satoshi to obtain security information from Miyuki about her father's company (which she even mentions only overhearing from said father, Jiro, himself)? How does Kenji know that Minoru (or ''anyone'', for that matter) isn't gonna report what he and Brick did to him to the police? How does he manage to stab Konata in the back in the middle of a crowded summer festival, without her either dying or screaming, and without anyone freaking out at such an act of violence, or even batting an eye at some guy carrying a girl's limp body around? How do he and Riku know that Misao and her family isn't gonna wonder what's going on with them and Konata while both parties are out camping next to eachother, or that Misao, who has no one yet to lose, isn't gonna scream for her family's help while being raped, or that said family isn't gonna either step in or identify them for the police? How do those boys know Nanako wouldn't survive a car wreck courtesy of some severed brake cables (and they'd just have one more victim to "work on" if she did survive)? How do they know that none of their secondary victims have friends that their primary ones have never even met, who could step in at a moment's notice once they caught wind of everything before being found out about? How do they know that Kagami will either dismiss Misao's complaints of being raped or let them go when they continue to gaslight her? How do they know Kagami will eventually give them sex, when the world is full of people who will do no such thing under ''any'' circumstances except marriage? How do they know that Soujiro and Yui will not suspect anything from Konata's aloofness of late or Yutaka's absence for several weeks straight? How do they know none of their own cohorts are gonna get tired of the whole thing and either kill himself to avoid prison or just surrender himself and rat on his fellow Yakuza? [[StupidEvil Really, Satoshi could have just taken some nude footage that he takes of Miyuki, threatened Jiro with it for the information he needs, and left everyone else alone. One thing goes wrong, which evidently does happen eventually, and the whole operation is fucked.]] [[IdiotPlot Combined with the stupidity of some of the protagonists regarding things like Minami's dog and Tsukasa and Kagami's relationship]], this is one example of this trope that utterly shatters all willing suspension of disbelief, and there's even a certain WhatIf fic that shows what would have really happened only the second morning in, rendering everything that originally followed a moot point.
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to:

* The antagonists plans in ''Cries Unheard'' (a ''Anime/LuckyStar'' fanfic) could have been pulled off successfully, and they'd still be alive, if they had been a lot smarter about it instead of relying on everything preceding their only-inevitable demises to fall favorably for them. How does Satoshi know that Minami and her friends won't suspect him, charming as he may have been the previous day, of killing her dog Cherry? How does Riku know Kagami won't drop her infatuation for him and slap him for touching her hair, or suspect him of stalking her when she takes Tsukasa out shopping? Kagami and Tsukasa's ''real'' character dictates that there should not have been any tension between them that ''did'' result from Kagami "ignoring" her (read: Tsukasa just standing on the sidelines and feeling sorry for herself or thinking that Kagami doesn't love her anymore just because she's got a boyfriend now), which in turn would negate Kenji's efforts to keep those two on any questionable terms. What drives Satoshi to obtain security information from Miyuki about her father's company (which she even mentions only overhearing from said father, Jiro, himself)? How does Kenji know that Minoru (or ''anyone'', for that matter) isn't gonna report what he and Brick did to him to the police? How does he manage to stab Konata in the back in the middle of a crowded summer festival, without her either dying or screaming, and without anyone freaking out at such an act of violence, or even batting an eye at some guy carrying a girl's limp body around? How do he and Riku know that Misao and her family isn't gonna wonder what's going on with them and Konata while both parties are out camping next to eachother, or that Misao, who has no one yet to lose, isn't gonna scream for her family's help while being raped, or that said family isn't gonna either step in or identify them for the police? How do those boys know Nanako wouldn't survive a car wreck courtesy of some severed brake cables (and they'd just have one more victim to "work on" if she did survive)? How do they know that none of their secondary victims have friends that their primary ones have never even met, who could step in at a moment's notice once they caught wind of everything before being found out about? How do they know that Kagami will either dismiss Misao's complaints of being raped or let them go when they continue to gaslight her? How do they know Kagami will eventually give them sex, when the world is full of people who will do no such thing under ''any'' circumstances except marriage? How do they know that Soujiro and Yui will not suspect anything from Konata's aloofness of late or Yutaka's absence for several weeks straight? How do they know none of their own cohorts are gonna get tired of the whole thing and either kill himself to avoid prison or just surrender himself and rat on his fellow Yakuza? [[StupidEvil Really, Satoshi could have just taken some nude footage that he takes of Miyuki, threatened Jiro with it for the information he needs, and left everyone else alone. One thing goes wrong, which evidently does happen eventually, and the whole operation is fucked.]] [[IdiotPlot Combined with the stupidity of some of the protagonists regarding things like Minami's dog and Tsukasa and Kagami's relationship]], this is one example of this trope that utterly shatters all willing suspension of disbelief, and there's even a certain WhatIf fic that shows what would have really happened only the second morning in, rendering everything that originally followed a moot point.
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3rd May '16 3:47:07 AM SeaRover
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Note that complexity alone does not make a plan into roulette. A few separate plans may combine while individually making logical sense. When a dozen things are going on but the actual details of the plan aren't reliant on each item fortuitously fitting into place, then it is just a regular GambitPileup. If the character has plans for either outcome, not just the improbable one, it's XanatosGambit. If they ''admit'' that they hadn't planned for certain occurrences, but took advantage of them as they came up, that's XanatosSpeedChess. Contrast BatmanGambit which is based on the ''most likely'' outcome, based on the planner's knowledge of the people involved, rather than an improbable one. A roulette requires the planner to say that events that were literally ''impossible'' to predict were AllAccordingToPlan.

to:

Note that complexity alone does not make a plan into roulette. A few separate plans may combine while individually making logical sense. When a dozen things are going on but the actual details of the plan aren't reliant on each item fortuitously fitting into place, then it is just a regular GambitPileup. If the character has plans for either outcome, not just the improbable one, it's XanatosGambit. If they ''admit'' that they [[ThrowItIn hadn't planned for certain occurrences, but took advantage of them as they came up, up]], that's XanatosSpeedChess. Contrast BatmanGambit which is based on the ''most likely'' outcome, based on the planner's knowledge of the people involved, rather than an improbable one. A roulette requires the planner to say that events that were literally ''impossible'' to predict were AllAccordingToPlan.
2nd May '16 5:09:21 PM SeaRover
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* The antagonists plans in ''Cries Unheard'' (a ''Anime/LuckyStar'' fanfic) could have been pulled off successfully, and they'd still be alive, if they had been a lot smarter about it instead of relying on everything preceding their only-inevitable demises to fall favorably for them. How does Satoshi know that Minami and her friends won't suspect him, charming as he may have been the previous day, of killing her dog Cherry? How does Riku know Kagami won't drop her infatuation for him and slap him for touching her hair, or suspect him of stalking her when she takes Tsukasa out shopping? Kagami and Tsukasa's ''real'' character dictates that there should not have been any tension between them that ''did'' result from Kagami "ignoring" her (read: Tsukasa just standing on the sidelines and feeling sorry for herself or thinking that Kagami doesn't love her anymore just because she's got a boyfriend now), which in turn would negate Kenji's efforts to keep those two on any questionable terms. What drives Satoshi to obtain security information from Miyuki about her father's company (which she even mentions only overhearing from said father, Jiro, himself)? How does Kenji know that Minoru (or ''anyone'', for that matter) isn't gonna report what he and Brick did to him to the police? How does he manage to stab Konata in the back in the middle of a crowded summer festival, without her either dying or screaming, and without anyone freaking out at such an act of violence, or even batting an eye at some guy carrying a girl's limp body around? How do he and Riku know that Misao and her family isn't gonna wonder what's going on with them and Konata while both parties are out camping next to eachother, or that Misao, who has no one yet to lose, isn't gonna scream for her family's help while being raped, or that said family isn't gonna either step in or identify them for the police? How do those boys know Nanako wouldn't survive a car wreck courtesy of some severed brake cables (and they'd just have one more victim to "work on" if she did survive)? How do they know that none of their secondary victims have friends that their primary ones have never even met, who could step in at a moment's notice once they caught wind of everything before being found out about? How do they know that Kagami will either dismiss Misao's complaints of being raped or let them go when they continue to gaslight her? How do they know Kagami will eventually give them sex, when the world is full of people who will do no such thing under ''any'' circumstances except marriage? How do they know that Soujiro and Yui will not suspect anything from Konata's aloofness of late or Yutaka's absence for several weeks straight? How do they know none of their own cohorts are gonna get tired of the whole thing and either kill himself to avoid prison or just surrender himself and rat on his fellow Yakuza? [[StupidEvil Really, Satoshi could have just taken some nude footage that he takes of Miyuki, threatened Jiro with it for the information he needs, and left everyone else alone. One thing goes wrong, which evidently does happen eventually, and the whole operation is fucked.]] [[IdiotPlot Combined with the stupidity of some of the protagonists regarding things like Minami's dog and Tsukasa and Kagami's relationship]], this is one example of this trope that utterly shatters all willing suspension of disbelief, and there's even a certain WhatIf fic that shows what would have really happened only the second morning in, rendering everything that originally followed a moot point.
30th Apr '16 10:31:14 PM comicwriter
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* Linkara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}'', where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.
* Illyana's plan in the revival volume of ''ComicBook/NewMutants''. Going back in time, she rescues Legion from another dimension and brings him back to earth. She then appears on Utopia, and warns them about Legion's plan to kill Dani and Karma. This causes the reforming of the old ComicBook/NewMutants team and the capture of Legion. Eventually, Project Purgatory arrives back on earth and kickstarts the events leading up to her return to the past. The team is defeated and captured, allowing the summoning of the Elder Gods. But this is all according to plan, as Illyana has Karma release the REAL Legion and he uses his full powers to destroy the Elder Gods. As part of a still-unrevealed bargain, he then returns Illyana's bloodstones to her and completes her revenge plot against the Elder Gods. All according to plan. And all set up with only a dying warning from Magma to let Illyana knew what was coming.

to:

* Linkara similar similarly called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}'', where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.
* Illyana's plan in the revival volume of ''ComicBook/NewMutants''.''ComicBook/NewMutants'' vol. 3. Going back in time, she rescues Legion from another dimension and brings him back to earth. She then appears on Utopia, and warns them about Legion's plan to kill Dani and Karma. This causes the reforming of the old ComicBook/NewMutants team and the capture of Legion. Eventually, Project Purgatory arrives back on earth and kickstarts the events leading up to her return to the past. The team is defeated and captured, allowing the summoning of the Elder Gods. But this is all according to plan, as Illyana has Karma release the REAL Legion and he uses his full powers to destroy the Elder Gods. As part of a still-unrevealed bargain, he then returns Illyana's bloodstones to her and completes her revenge plot against the Elder Gods. All according to plan. And all set up with only a dying warning from Magma to let Illyana knew what was coming.
30th Apr '16 10:30:14 PM comicwriter
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* Likara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}'', where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.

to:

* Likara Linkara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}'', where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.
29th Apr '16 3:26:34 PM eroock
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** Also seen in the episode "Eternal Moonshine of the Simpson Mind," in which Homer pulls a Gambit Roulette on himself. Upon learning that Marge was planning a surprise party for him, he goes to Moe's and orders an amnesia-inducing drink. Before he downs it, he predicts that he will wake up to find his family missing, remember snippets that imply that he hit Marge, go to Dr. Frink for memory recovery, only remember enough to conclude that Marge was having an affair with Duffman, and then throw himself off a bridge at the exact moment in which the party ship was underneath and at the exact place in which he lands on the ship's moonbounce.

to:

** Also seen in the episode "Eternal "[[Recap/TheSimpsonsS19E9EternalMoonshineOfTheSimpsonMind Eternal Moonshine of the Simpson Mind," Mind]]", in which Homer pulls a Gambit Roulette on himself. Upon accidentally learning that Marge was planning a surprise party for him, he goes to Moe's and orders an amnesia-inducing drink. Before he downs it, he predicts that he will wake up to find his family missing, remember snippets that imply that he hit Marge, go to Dr. Frink for memory recovery, only remember enough to conclude that Marge was having an affair with Duffman, and then throw himself off a bridge at the exact moment in which the party ship was underneath and at the exact place in which he lands on the ship's moonbounce.
29th Apr '16 2:03:21 PM comicwriter
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* Likara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}, where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.

to:

* Likara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}, ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}'', where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.
29th Apr '16 2:02:16 PM comicwriter
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* In the series ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'', Vanessa Fisk was the {{Chessmaster}} behind the sinister events that transpired within the first two arcs of writer Ed Brubaker's current run on the title. Every player acted and every scenario unfolded with near-perfect precision, the one hitch being the confrontation with Matt Murdock occurring earlier than planned.

to:

* In the series ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'', Vanessa Fisk was the {{Chessmaster}} behind the sinister events that transpired within the first two arcs of writer Ed Brubaker's current run on the title. Every player acted and every scenario unfolded with near-perfect precision, the one hitch being the confrontation with Matt Murdock occurring earlier than planned.



* Illyana's plan in the latest volume of ''ComicBook/NewMutants''. Going back in time, she rescues Legion from another dimension and brings him back to earth. She then appears on Utopia, and warns them about Legion's plan to kill Dani and Karma. This causes the reforming of the old ComicBook/NewMutants team and the capture of Legion. Eventually, Project Purgatory arrives back on earth and kickstarts the events leading up to her return to the past. The team is defeated and captured, allowing the summoning of the Elder Gods. But this is all according to plan, as Illyana has Karma release the REAL Legion and he uses his full powers to destroy the Elder Gods. As part of a still-unrevealed bargain, he then returns Illyana's bloodstones to her and completes her revenge plot against the Elder Gods. All according to plan. And all set up with only a dying warning from Magma to let Illyana knew what was coming.

to:

* Likara similar called out ''TheUltimates 3'' and ''Comicbook/{{Ultimatum}}, where it was revealed that DoctorDoom had manipulated Comicbook/{{Ultron}} into murdering Comicbook/ScarletWitch in order to provoke SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} into declaring war on mankind. Linkara pointed out that Doom's plan was full of far too many unpredictable variables to possibly be reasonable, and argued that there's no way a disciplined scientific genius like Doom would ever rely on a plan that left so much to random chance.
* Illyana's plan in the latest revival volume of ''ComicBook/NewMutants''. Going back in time, she rescues Legion from another dimension and brings him back to earth. She then appears on Utopia, and warns them about Legion's plan to kill Dani and Karma. This causes the reforming of the old ComicBook/NewMutants team and the capture of Legion. Eventually, Project Purgatory arrives back on earth and kickstarts the events leading up to her return to the past. The team is defeated and captured, allowing the summoning of the Elder Gods. But this is all according to plan, as Illyana has Karma release the REAL Legion and he uses his full powers to destroy the Elder Gods. As part of a still-unrevealed bargain, he then returns Illyana's bloodstones to her and completes her revenge plot against the Elder Gods. All according to plan. And all set up with only a dying warning from Magma to let Illyana knew what was coming.
25th Apr '16 5:51:32 AM Tron80
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* ''Fanfic/ThousandShinji'': The [[spoiler:''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' gods']] plan was a very complex scheme, involving time-travel, several {{Batman Gambit}}s and several dozens of different variables. And even so it went as planned. Justified because [[spoiler:Tzeentch]] was planning it, and he plans for ''everything''.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.Gambitroulette