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* This lies at the heart of the Literature/SoulRider series by Creator/JackChalker, which begins with an Anchor Logh that is dominated by a female-centered Church that captures the protagonist Cassie and [[MadeASlave sells her into slavery]] in Flux. Cass eventually raises a revolution, builds an empire, and sees it all crumble ... to the point where two books later, Anchor Logh has become "New Eden," a community dominated by a male-centered Church that captures Cassie and turns her into a [[MoreThanMindControl brainwashed slave who supports the system wholeheartedly]].
to:
* This lies at the heart of the Literature/SoulRider series by Creator/JackChalker, which begins with an in Anchor Logh that is Logh, a community dominated by a female-centered Church that captures the protagonist Cassie and [[MadeASlave sells her into slavery]] in Flux. Cass eventually raises a revolution, builds an empire, and sees it all crumble ... to the point where two books later, Anchor Logh has become "New Eden," a community dominated by a male-centered Church that captures Cassie and turns her into a [[MoreThanMindControl brainwashed slave who supports the system wholeheartedly]].
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Changed line(s) 167 (click to see context) from:
* This lies at the heart of the Literture/SoulRider series by Creator/JackChalker, which begins with an Anchor Logh that is dominated by a female-centered Church that captures the protagonist Cassie and [[MadeASlave sells her into slavery]] in Flux. Cass eventually raises a revolution, builds an empire, and sees it all crumble ... to the point where two books later, Anchor Logh has become "New Eden," a community dominated by a male-centered Church that captures Cassie and turns her into a [[MoreThanMindControl brainwashed slave who supports the system wholeheartedly]].
to:
* This lies at the heart of the Literture/SoulRider Literature/SoulRider series by Creator/JackChalker, which begins with an Anchor Logh that is dominated by a female-centered Church that captures the protagonist Cassie and [[MadeASlave sells her into slavery]] in Flux. Cass eventually raises a revolution, builds an empire, and sees it all crumble ... to the point where two books later, Anchor Logh has become "New Eden," a community dominated by a male-centered Church that captures Cassie and turns her into a [[MoreThanMindControl brainwashed slave who supports the system wholeheartedly]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting up a police."
* ''Mirror in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
Deleted line(s) 151,153 (click to see context) :
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting up a police."
* ''Mirror in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
* ''Mirror in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* This lies at the heart of the Literture/SoulRider series by Creator/JackChalker, which begins with an Anchor Logh that is dominated by a female-centered Church that captures the protagonist Cassie and [[MadeASlave sells her into slavery]] in Flux. Cass eventually raises a revolution, builds an empire, and sees it all crumble ... to the point where two books later, Anchor Logh has become "New Eden," a community dominated by a male-centered Church that captures Cassie and turns her into a [[MoreThanMindControl brainwashed slave who supports the system wholeheartedly]].
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Literature has been alphabetized
* Creator/IsaacAsimov:
** ''Literature/TheCompleteRobot'': During the introduction, Dr Asimov talks about how he had become known as "the father of the modern robot story" by choosing a path between [[KillerRobot Robots-as-Menace]] and [[AndroidsArePeopleToo Robots-as-Pathos]]. This path has robots being sensible tools built by sensible men for practical purposes. He invented ThreeLawsCompliant to prevent both paths. However, he ends the [[{{Anthology}} collection]] by admitting that the stories in ''Two Climaxes'' are both guided by the Three Laws, yet still they diverge and each fulfills one of the two paths he had set out to avoid from the very beginning.
** ''Literature/TheFoundationTrilogy'''s "Literature/TheGeneralFoundation": Lathan Devers, a Trader from the Foundation, points out that when one government is toppled, all it really does is replace who's in charge, and people like him would be pretty screwed anyway. That's why he doesn't mind if the Empire wins the war against the Foundation. [[spoiler:He is a spy sent to find out as much as possible about the Empire, so he's saying this to General Riose to gain his trust.]]
* A variation in Creator/HarryTurtledove's ''[[Literature/{{Worldwar}} Colonization]]'' trilogy. When World War II is interrupted by an AlienInvasion, France ends up remaining under Nazi occupation for twenty-four years instead of only four. After [[LizardFolk the Race]] defeat the Nazis in a brief nuclear war the Reich is forced to grant France its 'independence' (in reality making it a ''de facto'' Race protectorate). But the new French government proves just as brutal in dealing with collaborators, and it's remarked by Molotov that the national leader Doriot collaborates with the Lizards just as enthusiastically as he did with the Nazis.
* In ''[[Literature/{{Matched}} Crossed]]'', the final book in the ''Matched'' trilogy, various characters note that [[LaResistance the Rising]] and the [[PoliceState Society]] have a lot in common. [[spoiler: It turns out that this is because the Society had infiltrated the Rising so deeply that by the time the rebellion actually occurred, it was simply the Society changing their name and then going about business as usual.]]
* Terry Pratchett's ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'':
** As noted in ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', revolutions usually end up simply replacing one set of bastards with another set. "That's why they're called 'revolutions' -- they always come round again." In fact, Ankh-Morpork seems to have been very carefully set up this way on purpose; when the dust has settled and the Patrician is replaced, the loose group of guild leaders and nobles that ''actually'' run the place stay in power. (Until Vetinari came along and proved to be much better at the game than they were.)
** And previously to that, in ''Literature/InterestingTimes'', when Rincewind refuses to help the communist rebels against the Agatean Empire, one of the things he points out is that their plans amount to setting up exactly the same government that they're trying to overthrow, just with different names.
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty much the entire point.
* In Frank Herbert's ''Literature/{{Dune}}'', Paul has successfully led the Fremen in overthrowing the old Padishah Emperor and controls the flow of [[GreenRocks spice]]. In [[Literature/DuneMessiah the sequel]], the Fremen are running rampant across the galaxy in a massive jihad to bring all worlds to Paul's control; Paul had foreseen it, but is helpless, as even though he is the most powerful man in the universe, he can't stop the slaughter being carried out by his own people. It's mentioned that he's been forced to "sterilize" dozens of planets who refused to submit. However, in the interquels written by Frank's son Brian, Paul privately reveals to his mother that he's been secretly evacuating populations of those planets in order to minimize the slaughter.
* ''L'Engrenage'' by Jean-Paul Sartre is about a country whose reactionary government is overthrown by a revolution, but before long the new regime realizes that it is unable to fulfill its promises, and goes back to the previous one's methods. Eventually it is itself overthrown by a new revolution, and the cycle starts anew.
* Played with in Literature/TheGirlWhoCircumnavigatedFairylandInAShipOfHerOwnMaking series. To the Fairylanders they had ''two'' revolutions: the "good" one, where Mallowoverthrew the ruthless and gluttonous King Goldmnouth (who is eating the capital bit by bit and is willing to destroy entiure worlds to feed his hunger) and became TheHighQueen, and the "bad" one, where the Marquess seized the throne from Mallow and become [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen a cruel tyrant]]. In reality however [[spoiler: The Marquess is the same person as Mallow]].
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
** ''Literature/TheCompleteRobot'': During the introduction, Dr Asimov talks about how he had become known as "the father of the modern robot story" by choosing a path between [[KillerRobot Robots-as-Menace]] and [[AndroidsArePeopleToo Robots-as-Pathos]]. This path has robots being sensible tools built by sensible men for practical purposes. He invented ThreeLawsCompliant to prevent both paths. However, he ends the [[{{Anthology}} collection]] by admitting that the stories in ''Two Climaxes'' are both guided by the Three Laws, yet still they diverge and each fulfills one of the two paths he had set out to avoid from the very beginning.
** ''Literature/TheFoundationTrilogy'''s "Literature/TheGeneralFoundation": Lathan Devers, a Trader from the Foundation, points out that when one government is toppled, all it really does is replace who's in charge, and people like him would be pretty screwed anyway. That's why he doesn't mind if the Empire wins the war against the Foundation. [[spoiler:He is a spy sent to find out as much as possible about the Empire, so he's saying this to General Riose to gain his trust.]]
* A variation in Creator/HarryTurtledove's ''[[Literature/{{Worldwar}} Colonization]]'' trilogy. When World War II is interrupted by an AlienInvasion, France ends up remaining under Nazi occupation for twenty-four years instead of only four. After [[LizardFolk the Race]] defeat the Nazis in a brief nuclear war the Reich is forced to grant France its 'independence' (in reality making it a ''de facto'' Race protectorate). But the new French government proves just as brutal in dealing with collaborators, and it's remarked by Molotov that the national leader Doriot collaborates with the Lizards just as enthusiastically as he did with the Nazis.
* In ''[[Literature/{{Matched}} Crossed]]'', the final book in the ''Matched'' trilogy, various characters note that [[LaResistance the Rising]] and the [[PoliceState Society]] have a lot in common. [[spoiler: It turns out that this is because the Society had infiltrated the Rising so deeply that by the time the rebellion actually occurred, it was simply the Society changing their name and then going about business as usual.]]
* Terry Pratchett's ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'':
** As noted in ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', revolutions usually end up simply replacing one set of bastards with another set. "That's why they're called 'revolutions' -- they always come round again." In fact, Ankh-Morpork seems to have been very carefully set up this way on purpose; when the dust has settled and the Patrician is replaced, the loose group of guild leaders and nobles that ''actually'' run the place stay in power. (Until Vetinari came along and proved to be much better at the game than they were.)
** And previously to that, in ''Literature/InterestingTimes'', when Rincewind refuses to help the communist rebels against the Agatean Empire, one of the things he points out is that their plans amount to setting up exactly the same government that they're trying to overthrow, just with different names.
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty much the entire point.
* In Frank Herbert's ''Literature/{{Dune}}'', Paul has successfully led the Fremen in overthrowing the old Padishah Emperor and controls the flow of [[GreenRocks spice]]. In [[Literature/DuneMessiah the sequel]], the Fremen are running rampant across the galaxy in a massive jihad to bring all worlds to Paul's control; Paul had foreseen it, but is helpless, as even though he is the most powerful man in the universe, he can't stop the slaughter being carried out by his own people. It's mentioned that he's been forced to "sterilize" dozens of planets who refused to submit. However, in the interquels written by Frank's son Brian, Paul privately reveals to his mother that he's been secretly evacuating populations of those planets in order to minimize the slaughter.
* ''L'Engrenage'' by Jean-Paul Sartre is about a country whose reactionary government is overthrown by a revolution, but before long the new regime realizes that it is unable to fulfill its promises, and goes back to the previous one's methods. Eventually it is itself overthrown by a new revolution, and the cycle starts anew.
* Played with in Literature/TheGirlWhoCircumnavigatedFairylandInAShipOfHerOwnMaking series. To the Fairylanders they had ''two'' revolutions: the "good" one, where Mallowoverthrew the ruthless and gluttonous King Goldmnouth (who is eating the capital bit by bit and is willing to destroy entiure worlds to feed his hunger) and became TheHighQueen, and the "bad" one, where the Marquess seized the throne from Mallow and become [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen a cruel tyrant]]. In reality however [[spoiler: The Marquess is the same person as Mallow]].
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
Changed line(s) 130 (click to see context) from:
* Subverted in ''[[Literature/TheHungerGames Mockingjay]]''. President Coin of freedom-fighting District 13 appears to be going the way of the old President Snow, complete with a continuation of the Hunger Games which the old regime used to keep the populace in line, but [[spoiler:Katniss, who realizes the direction this is going, and that President Coin was the one who orchestrated her sister's death and framed Snow for it, assassinates her at the very ceremony where Coin expected to ascend to power following Snow's execution.]]
to:
* Subverted in ''[[Literature/TheHungerGames Mockingjay]]''. President Coin of freedom-fighting District 13 appears to be going the way of the old President Snow, complete with a continuation of the Hunger Games which the old regime used to keep the populace in line, but [[spoiler:Katniss, who realizes the direction ''Literature/HardToBeAGod'' recounts how this is going, and that President Coin was has happened frequently in the one who orchestrated her sister's death and framed Snow past, including several times in this generation. Avoiding it is the main reason for it, assassinates her at the very ceremony where Coin expected to ascend to power following Snow's execution.]]their AlienNonInterferenceClause.
Changed line(s) 133,135 (click to see context) from:
* Terry Pratchett's ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'':
** As noted in ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', revolutions usually end up simply replacing one set of bastards with another set. "That's why they're called 'revolutions' -- they always come round again." In fact, Ankh-Morpork seems to have been very carefully set up this way on purpose; when the dust has settled and the Patrician is replaced, the loose group of guild leaders and nobles that ''actually'' run the place stay in power. (Until Vetinari came along and proved to be much better at the game than they were.)
** And previously to that, in ''Literature/InterestingTimes'', when Rincewind refuses to help the communist rebels against the Agatean Empire, one of the things he points out is that their plans amount to setting up exactly the same government that they're trying to overthrow, just with different names.
** As noted in ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', revolutions usually end up simply replacing one set of bastards with another set. "That's why they're called 'revolutions' -- they always come round again." In fact, Ankh-Morpork seems to have been very carefully set up this way on purpose; when the dust has settled and the Patrician is replaced, the loose group of guild leaders and nobles that ''actually'' run the place stay in power. (Until Vetinari came along and proved to be much better at the game than they were.)
** And previously to that, in ''Literature/InterestingTimes'', when Rincewind refuses to help the communist rebels against the Agatean Empire, one of the things he points out is that their plans amount to setting up exactly the same government that they're trying to overthrow, just with different names.
to:
* Terry Pratchett's ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'':
** As notedIn ''Literature/TheMerchantPrincesSeries'', this is a concern of the protagonists and their allies in ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', revolutions usually end up simply replacing one set New Britain. After the overthrow of bastards with another set. "That's why the King of New Britain, many revolutionary groups look like they're called 'revolutions' -- they always come round again." In fact, Ankh-Morpork seems about to have been very carefully set up this way on purpose; when the dust has settled same kind of police state that they'd overthrown. Erasmus Burgeson and the Patrician is replaced, Clan largely put the loose group of guild leaders and nobles kibosh on that ''actually'' run for twenty years, but there are still factions within the place stay in power. (Until Vetinari came along and proved revolutionary government who want to be much better at backslide after the game than they were.)
** And previously to that,revolution's Old Man dies.
* In ''Literature/TheMirage'' this happens in''Literature/InterestingTimes'', when Rincewind refuses to help the communist rebels 1963. After a failed [[MilitaryCoup Coup]] by [[ALighterShadeOfBlack Richard Nixon]] against the Agatean Empire, one [[HereditaryRepublic Kennedy-ruled]] [[OppressiveStatesOfAmerica USA]] fails, eventualy a [[TeethClenchedTeamwork joint operation]] by [[TyrantTakesTheHelm LBJ]] and his former ([[spoiler: and future]]) foes in the [[TheFundamentalist Texan Evangelical Republic]] manages to bring said dynasty down... by [[ThePurge killing JFK and brutaly murdering all other remaining Kennedies]]. JFK then breaks ties with Texas and [[GeneralRipper begins the Heartlands War,]] causing massive amounts of pain and suffering to the entire continent. While he does have some ''PetTheDog'' moments (like demolishing the [[AbsoluteXenophobe Southern Segregation system]]) most agree he was just as bad as the Kennedies '''if not worse'''.
** And it's not like the [[TheFederation UAS Occupation Government]] is much better...
** And neither are the [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Sons of Liberty]] and other [[HeWhoFightsMonsters resistance movements]]. [[spoiler: Most of them, ironicly, also [[HistoryRepeats funded by Texas]].]].
* Subverted in ''[[Literature/TheHungerGames Mockingjay]]''. President Coin of freedom-fighting District 13 appears to be going the way of thethings he points out old President Snow, complete with a continuation of the Hunger Games which the old regime used to keep the populace in line, but [[spoiler:Katniss, who realizes the direction this is going, and that their plans amount President Coin was the one who orchestrated her sister's death and framed Snow for it, assassinates her at the very ceremony where Coin expected to ascend to power following Snow's execution.]]
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting upexactly a police."
* ''Mirror in thesame government that they're trying Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to overthrow, just be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a differentnames.high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
* ''Literature/OneHundredYearsOfSolitude'': Emissaries suggest to Colonel Aureliano Buendía that he makes major concessions to the Conservatives like giving back land titles, ending the fight against the church and giving up on fighting for equal rights for illegitimate children, in order to make peace and gain popular support. Colonel Gerineldo M´rquez objects because this would mean they would be just like the conservatives and would be fighting for nothing, but Aureliano accepts the terms, having become cynical and convinced they are just fighting for power and pride anyway.
** As noted
** And previously to that,
* In ''Literature/TheMirage'' this happens in
** And it's not like the [[TheFederation UAS Occupation Government]] is much better...
** And neither are the [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Sons of Liberty]] and other [[HeWhoFightsMonsters resistance movements]]. [[spoiler: Most of them, ironicly, also [[HistoryRepeats funded by Texas]].]].
* Subverted in ''[[Literature/TheHungerGames Mockingjay]]''. President Coin of freedom-fighting District 13 appears to be going the way of the
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting up
* ''Mirror in the
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different
* ''Literature/OneHundredYearsOfSolitude'': Emissaries suggest to Colonel Aureliano Buendía that he makes major concessions to the Conservatives like giving back land titles, ending the fight against the church and giving up on fighting for equal rights for illegitimate children, in order to make peace and gain popular support. Colonel Gerineldo M´rquez objects because this would mean they would be just like the conservatives and would be fighting for nothing, but Aureliano accepts the terms, having become cynical and convinced they are just fighting for power and pride anyway.
Changed line(s) 139,142 (click to see context) from:
* ''L'Engrenage'' by Jean-Paul Sartre is about a country whose reactionary government is overthrown by a revolution, but before long the new regime realizes that it is unable to fulfill its promises, and goes back to the previous one's methods. Eventually it is itself overthrown by a new revolution, and the cycle starts anew.
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting up a police."
* ''Mirror in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty much the entire point.
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one ends up setting up a police."
* ''Mirror in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from the point of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace by the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty much the entire point.
to:
* ''L'Engrenage'' ''Literature/{{Pale}}'': [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters Crooked Rook]] brings this up as a possibility, commenting that one of the few times she's been on the winning side in the struggle between practitioners and Others, the victorious Others became as bad as the practitioners they overthrew. She nevertheless remains committed and keeps fighting, [[{{Determinator}} because she's been doing this for so long that if she stopped fighting she might as well stop being Crooked Rook.]]
* Redfern Jon Barrett's ''Literature/ProudPinkSky'' is set in an alternate Berlin that's also the world's first gay state. Formed after the Second World War, the gay republic was designed as a refuge for the persecuted – and then goes on to oppress its bisexual, trans, and genderqueer residents.
* The Resistance Trilogy byJean-Paul Sartre is about Clive Egleton, set in a [[AlternateHistory Soviet-occupied Britain]]. In the final novel, the Soviets are pulling out of Britain due to war with China. This should be a time of victory, but instead the 'moderate' wing of LaResistance forms an alliance with TheQuisling government to track down and eliminate their hardline members (including the protagonist). The novels end with a former Resistance member, now Minister of the Interior, announcing new anti-terrorist measures to counter 'subversion'.
* In ''Literature/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'', Itsuki Kawasumi, one of the three [[HeroWithAnFInGood Cardinal Heroes]], travels to a country whosereactionary inhabitants are beset by high taxes and kills its king, leaving convinced that he's fixed all the problems - when, in reality, said kingdom was having great troubles with attacking monsters, and not only did the new government is overthrown by a revolution, but before long raise taxes even higher to deal with the new regime realizes that it is unable to fulfill its promises, and goes back to problem, the previous one's methods. Eventually it is itself overthrown by a new revolution, and the cycle starts anew.
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and onedisruption ends up setting up causing a police."
large famine.
*''Mirror In ''Literature/SeekersOfTheSky'', it is said that when the [[MessianicArchetype Redeemer]] was confronted by twelve Roman legionaries, he demonstrated the power of the [[PocketDimension Word]], causing eleven of the soldiers to become his new disciples (replacing the eleven disciples who had abandoned him shortly before that, with only one, implied to be Judas Iscariot, remaining loyal). The twelfth soldier said he didn't see a god, just the next emperor. Indeed, this turns out to be the case. The Redeemer eventually ascends to the Roman throne, causing the Sister (possibly Mary Magdalene) to turn away from him, causing the first even schism in the Mirror'' by Creator/MichaelEnde contains a short story from Church.
* In thepoint backstory of view of a tyrant who used to be one of these while being chased through his crumbling palace ''Literature/ShadowOfTheConqueror,'' Hamahra exchanged rulership by an [[AristocratsAreEvil evil aristocracy]] for rulership by a magnitudes-worse evil [[TheEmperor Emperor]] in the men seeking to overthrow him.
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty muchform of [[EvilOverlord Dayless the entire point.Conqueror]].
* Redfern Jon Barrett's ''Literature/ProudPinkSky'' is set in an alternate Berlin that's also the world's first gay state. Formed after the Second World War, the gay republic was designed as a refuge for the persecuted – and then goes on to oppress its bisexual, trans, and genderqueer residents.
* The Resistance Trilogy by
* In ''Literature/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'', Itsuki Kawasumi, one of the three [[HeroWithAnFInGood Cardinal Heroes]], travels to a country whose
* ''Les Justes'' by Creator/AlbertCamus, about a group of idealistic students who engage in terrorist acts in order to overthrow a despotic regime, features the famous quote "One begins by desiring justice, and one
*
* In the
* ''Literature/TheDispossessed'', by Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin: Apart from showing how an anarcho-communist society could function, this is pretty much
* ''Literature/TheSympathizer'': The narrator is a Vietnamese Communist spy working for the North Vietnamese who, through a series of complicated events, winds up in a Communist prison being tortured for a year. He contemplates how things came to this.
--> "....I understood, at last, how our revolution had gone from being the vanguard of political change to the rearguard hoarding power. In this transformation, we were not unusual. Hadn't the French and the Americans done exactly the same? Once revolutionaries themselves, they had become imperialists, colonizing and occupying our defiant little land, taking away our freedom in the name of saving us. Our revolution took considerably longer than theirs, and was considerably bloodier, but we made up for lost time. When it came to learning the worst habits of our French masters and their American replacements, we quickly proved ourselves the best."
* A darkly humorous version in ''Literature/TsunTsunTzimTzum''. Neveah's backstory involved her growing up in a country suffering under a dictatorial government, so she led a rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was even worse. So she led a second rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was ''worse still.'' So then she led a third rebellion that put the original government back into place since apparently it was the best one that the country was capable of producing.
--> "....I understood, at last, how our revolution had gone from being the vanguard of political change to the rearguard hoarding power. In this transformation, we were not unusual. Hadn't the French and the Americans done exactly the same? Once revolutionaries themselves, they had become imperialists, colonizing and occupying our defiant little land, taking away our freedom in the name of saving us. Our revolution took considerably longer than theirs, and was considerably bloodier, but we made up for lost time. When it came to learning the worst habits of our French masters and their American replacements, we quickly proved ourselves the best."
* A darkly humorous version in ''Literature/TsunTsunTzimTzum''. Neveah's backstory involved her growing up in a country suffering under a dictatorial government, so she led a rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was even worse. So she led a second rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was ''worse still.'' So then she led a third rebellion that put the original government back into place since apparently it was the best one that the country was capable of producing.
Deleted line(s) 150 (click to see context) :
* ''Literature/{{Mistborn}}'' has some extremely odd cases of this. After the first book, a constitutional monarchy is instituted, with a high-ranking noble who sympathized with the revolutionaries as king. Then he gets voted out by the assembly and replaced with a different high-ranking noble, then the original king becomes a theocratic emperor thanks to the same person who killed the original theocratic emperor. There's also a large segment of the population that wants to go back to the old system because, while it was extremely oppressive and they could literally be killed at any time for any reason, it was more successful at providing food.
Deleted line(s) 152,162 (click to see context) :
* In ''[[Literature/{{Matched}} Crossed]]'', the final book in the ''Matched'' trilogy, various characters note that [[LaResistance the Rising]] and the [[PoliceState Society]] have a lot in common. [[spoiler: It turns out that this is because the Society had infiltrated the Rising so deeply that by the time the rebellion actually occurred, it was simply the Society changing their name and then going about business as usual.]]
* In Frank Herbert's ''Literature/{{Dune}}'', Paul has successfully led the Fremen in overthrowing the old Padishah Emperor and controls the flow of [[GreenRocks spice]]. In [[Literature/DuneMessiah the sequel]], the Fremen are running rampant across the galaxy in a massive jihad to bring all worlds to Paul's control; Paul had foreseen it, but is helpless, as even though he is the most powerful man in the universe, he can't stop the slaughter being carried out by his own people. It's mentioned that he's been forced to "sterilize" dozens of planets who refused to submit. However, in the interquels written by Frank's son Brian, Paul privately reveals to his mother that he's been secretly evacuating populations of those planets in order to minimize the slaughter.
* The Resistance Trilogy by Clive Egleton, set in a [[AlternateHistory Soviet-occupied Britain]]. In the final novel, the Soviets are pulling out of Britain due to war with China. This should be a time of victory, but instead the 'moderate' wing of LaResistance forms an alliance with TheQuisling government to track down and eliminate their hardline members (including the protagonist). The novels end with a former Resistance member, now Minister of the Interior, announcing new anti-terrorist measures to counter 'subversion'.
* ''Literature/HardToBeAGod'' recounts how this has happened frequently in the past, including several times in this generation. Avoiding it is the main reason for their AlienNonInterferenceClause.
* A variation in Creator/HarryTurtledove's ''[[Literature/{{Worldwar}} Colonization]]'' trilogy. When World War II is interrupted by an AlienInvasion, France ends up remaining under Nazi occupation for twenty-four years instead of only four. After [[LizardFolk the Race]] defeat the Nazis in a brief nuclear war the Reich is forced to grant France its 'independence' (in reality making it a ''de facto'' Race protectorate). But the new French government proves just as brutal in dealing with collaborators, and it's remarked by Molotov that the national leader Doriot collaborates with the Lizards just as enthusiastically as he did with the Nazis.
* ''Literature/TheSympathizer'': The narrator is a Vietnamese Communist spy working for the North Vietnamese who, through a series of complicated events, winds up in a Communist prison being tortured for a year. He contemplates how things came to this.
--> "....I understood, at last, how our revolution had gone from being the vanguard of political change to the rearguard hoarding power. In this transformation, we were not unusual. Hadn't the French and the Americans done exactly the same? Once revolutionaries themselves, they had become imperialists, colonizing and occupying our defiant little land, taking away our freedom in the name of saving us. Our revolution took considerably longer than theirs, and was considerably bloodier, but we made up for lost time. When it came to learning the worst habits of our French masters and their American replacements, we quickly proved ourselves the best."
* In ''Literature/TheMerchantPrincesSeries'', this is a concern of the protagonists and their allies in New Britain. After the overthrow of the King of New Britain, many revolutionary groups look like they're about to set up the same kind of police state that they'd overthrown. Erasmus Burgeson and the Clan largely put the kibosh on that for twenty years, but there are still factions within the revolutionary government who want to backslide after the revolution's Old Man dies.
* In ''Literature/TheMirage'' this happens in 1963. After a failed [[MilitaryCoup Coup]] by [[ALighterShadeOfBlack Richard Nixon]] against the [[HereditaryRepublic Kennedy-ruled]] [[OppressiveStatesOfAmerica USA]] fails, eventualy a [[TeethClenchedTeamwork joint operation]] by [[TyrantTakesTheHelm LBJ]] and his former ([[spoiler: and future]]) foes in the [[TheFundamentalist Texan Evangelical Republic]] manages to bring said dynasty down... by [[ThePurge killing JFK and brutaly murdering all other remaining Kennedies]]. JFK then breaks ties with Texas and [[GeneralRipper begins the Heartlands War,]] causing massive amounts of pain and suffering to the entire continent. While he does have some ''PetTheDog'' moments (like demolishing the [[AbsoluteXenophobe Southern Segregation system]]) most agree he was just as bad as the Kennedies '''if not worse'''.
** And it's not like the [[TheFederation UAS Occupation Government]] is much better...
** And neither are the [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Sons of Liberty]] and other [[HeWhoFightsMonsters resistance movements]]. [[spoiler: Most of them, ironicly, also [[HistoryRepeats funded by Texas]].]].
* In Frank Herbert's ''Literature/{{Dune}}'', Paul has successfully led the Fremen in overthrowing the old Padishah Emperor and controls the flow of [[GreenRocks spice]]. In [[Literature/DuneMessiah the sequel]], the Fremen are running rampant across the galaxy in a massive jihad to bring all worlds to Paul's control; Paul had foreseen it, but is helpless, as even though he is the most powerful man in the universe, he can't stop the slaughter being carried out by his own people. It's mentioned that he's been forced to "sterilize" dozens of planets who refused to submit. However, in the interquels written by Frank's son Brian, Paul privately reveals to his mother that he's been secretly evacuating populations of those planets in order to minimize the slaughter.
* The Resistance Trilogy by Clive Egleton, set in a [[AlternateHistory Soviet-occupied Britain]]. In the final novel, the Soviets are pulling out of Britain due to war with China. This should be a time of victory, but instead the 'moderate' wing of LaResistance forms an alliance with TheQuisling government to track down and eliminate their hardline members (including the protagonist). The novels end with a former Resistance member, now Minister of the Interior, announcing new anti-terrorist measures to counter 'subversion'.
* ''Literature/HardToBeAGod'' recounts how this has happened frequently in the past, including several times in this generation. Avoiding it is the main reason for their AlienNonInterferenceClause.
* A variation in Creator/HarryTurtledove's ''[[Literature/{{Worldwar}} Colonization]]'' trilogy. When World War II is interrupted by an AlienInvasion, France ends up remaining under Nazi occupation for twenty-four years instead of only four. After [[LizardFolk the Race]] defeat the Nazis in a brief nuclear war the Reich is forced to grant France its 'independence' (in reality making it a ''de facto'' Race protectorate). But the new French government proves just as brutal in dealing with collaborators, and it's remarked by Molotov that the national leader Doriot collaborates with the Lizards just as enthusiastically as he did with the Nazis.
* ''Literature/TheSympathizer'': The narrator is a Vietnamese Communist spy working for the North Vietnamese who, through a series of complicated events, winds up in a Communist prison being tortured for a year. He contemplates how things came to this.
--> "....I understood, at last, how our revolution had gone from being the vanguard of political change to the rearguard hoarding power. In this transformation, we were not unusual. Hadn't the French and the Americans done exactly the same? Once revolutionaries themselves, they had become imperialists, colonizing and occupying our defiant little land, taking away our freedom in the name of saving us. Our revolution took considerably longer than theirs, and was considerably bloodier, but we made up for lost time. When it came to learning the worst habits of our French masters and their American replacements, we quickly proved ourselves the best."
* In ''Literature/TheMerchantPrincesSeries'', this is a concern of the protagonists and their allies in New Britain. After the overthrow of the King of New Britain, many revolutionary groups look like they're about to set up the same kind of police state that they'd overthrown. Erasmus Burgeson and the Clan largely put the kibosh on that for twenty years, but there are still factions within the revolutionary government who want to backslide after the revolution's Old Man dies.
* In ''Literature/TheMirage'' this happens in 1963. After a failed [[MilitaryCoup Coup]] by [[ALighterShadeOfBlack Richard Nixon]] against the [[HereditaryRepublic Kennedy-ruled]] [[OppressiveStatesOfAmerica USA]] fails, eventualy a [[TeethClenchedTeamwork joint operation]] by [[TyrantTakesTheHelm LBJ]] and his former ([[spoiler: and future]]) foes in the [[TheFundamentalist Texan Evangelical Republic]] manages to bring said dynasty down... by [[ThePurge killing JFK and brutaly murdering all other remaining Kennedies]]. JFK then breaks ties with Texas and [[GeneralRipper begins the Heartlands War,]] causing massive amounts of pain and suffering to the entire continent. While he does have some ''PetTheDog'' moments (like demolishing the [[AbsoluteXenophobe Southern Segregation system]]) most agree he was just as bad as the Kennedies '''if not worse'''.
** And it's not like the [[TheFederation UAS Occupation Government]] is much better...
** And neither are the [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Sons of Liberty]] and other [[HeWhoFightsMonsters resistance movements]]. [[spoiler: Most of them, ironicly, also [[HistoryRepeats funded by Texas]].]].
Deleted line(s) 164,175 (click to see context) :
* Creator/IsaacAsimov:
** ''Literature/TheCompleteRobot'': During the introduction, Dr Asimov talks about how he had become known as "the father of the modern robot story" by choosing a path between [[KillerRobot Robots-as-Menace]] and [[AndroidsArePeopleToo Robots-as-Pathos]]. This path has robots being sensible tools built by sensible men for practical purposes. He invented ThreeLawsCompliant to prevent both paths. However, he ends the [[{{Anthology}} collection]] by admitting that the stories in ''Two Climaxes'' are both guided by the Three Laws, yet still they diverge and each fulfills one of the two paths he had set out to avoid from the very beginning.
** ''Literature/TheFoundationTrilogy'''s "Literature/TheGeneralFoundation": Lathan Devers, a Trader from the Foundation, points out that when one government is toppled, all it really does is replace who's in charge, and people like him would be pretty screwed anyway. That's why he doesn't mind if the Empire wins the war against the Foundation. [[spoiler:He is a spy sent to find out as much as possible about the Empire, so he's saying this to General Riose to gain his trust.]]
* In the backstory of ''Literature/ShadowOfTheConqueror,'' Hamahra exchanged rulership by an [[AristocratsAreEvil evil aristocracy]] for rulership by a magnitudes-worse evil [[TheEmperor Emperor]] in the form of [[EvilOverlord Dayless the Conqueror]].
* A darkly humorous version in ''Literature/TsunTsunTzimTzum''. Neveah's backstory involved her growing up in a country suffering under a dictatorial government, so she led a rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was even worse. So she led a second rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was ''worse still.'' So then she led a third rebellion that put the original government back into place since apparently it was the best one that the country was capable of producing.
* ''Literature/{{Pale}}'': [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters Crooked Rook]] brings this up as a possibility, commenting that one of the few times she's been on the winning side in the struggle between practitioners and Others, the victorious Others became as bad as the practitioners they overthrew. She nevertheless remains committed and keeps fighting, [[{{Determinator}} because she's been doing this for so long that if she stopped fighting she might as well stop being Crooked Rook.]]
* In ''Literature/SeekersOfTheSky'', it is said that when the [[MessianicArchetype Redeemer]] was confronted by twelve Roman legionaries, he demonstrated the power of the [[PocketDimension Word]], causing eleven of the soldiers to become his new disciples (replacing the eleven disciples who had abandoned him shortly before that, with only one, implied to be Judas Iscariot, remaining loyal). The twelfth soldier said he didn't see a god, just the next emperor. Indeed, this turns out to be the case. The Redeemer eventually ascends to the Roman throne, causing the Sister (possibly Mary Magdalene) to turn away from him, causing the first even schism in the Church.
* ''Literature/OneHundredYearsOfSolitude'': Emissaries suggest to Colonel Aureliano Buendía that he makes major concessions to the Conservatives like giving back land titles, ending the fight against the church and giving up on fighting for equal rights for illegitimate children, in order to make peace and gain popular support. Colonel Gerineldo M´rquez objects because this would mean they would be just like the conservatives and would be fighting for nothing, but Aureliano accepts the terms, having become cynical and convinced they are just fighting for power and pride anyway.
* Redfern Jon Barrett's ''Literature/ProudPinkSky'' is set in an alternate Berlin that's also the world's first gay state. Formed after the Second World War, the gay republic was designed as a refuge for the persecuted – and then goes on to oppress its bisexual, trans, and genderqueer residents.
* In ''Literature/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'', Itsuki Kawasumi, one of the three [[HeroWithAnFInGood Cardinal Heroes]], travels to a country whose inhabitants are beset by high taxes and kills its king, leaving convinced that he's fixed all the problems - when, in reality, said kingdom was having great troubles with attacking monsters, and not only did the new government raise taxes even higher to deal with the problem, the disruption ends up causing a large famine.
* Played with in Literature/TheGirlWhoCircumnavigatedFairylandInAShipOfHerOwnMaking series. To the Fairylanders they had ''two'' revolutions: the "good" one, where Mallowoverthrew the ruthless and gluttonous King Goldmnouth (who is eating the capital bit by bit and is willing to destroy entiure worlds to feed his hunger) and became TheHighQueen, and the "bad" one, where the Marquess seized the throne from Mallow and become [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen a cruel tyrant]]. In reality however [[spoiler: The Marquess is the same person as Mallow]].
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
** ''Literature/TheCompleteRobot'': During the introduction, Dr Asimov talks about how he had become known as "the father of the modern robot story" by choosing a path between [[KillerRobot Robots-as-Menace]] and [[AndroidsArePeopleToo Robots-as-Pathos]]. This path has robots being sensible tools built by sensible men for practical purposes. He invented ThreeLawsCompliant to prevent both paths. However, he ends the [[{{Anthology}} collection]] by admitting that the stories in ''Two Climaxes'' are both guided by the Three Laws, yet still they diverge and each fulfills one of the two paths he had set out to avoid from the very beginning.
** ''Literature/TheFoundationTrilogy'''s "Literature/TheGeneralFoundation": Lathan Devers, a Trader from the Foundation, points out that when one government is toppled, all it really does is replace who's in charge, and people like him would be pretty screwed anyway. That's why he doesn't mind if the Empire wins the war against the Foundation. [[spoiler:He is a spy sent to find out as much as possible about the Empire, so he's saying this to General Riose to gain his trust.]]
* In the backstory of ''Literature/ShadowOfTheConqueror,'' Hamahra exchanged rulership by an [[AristocratsAreEvil evil aristocracy]] for rulership by a magnitudes-worse evil [[TheEmperor Emperor]] in the form of [[EvilOverlord Dayless the Conqueror]].
* A darkly humorous version in ''Literature/TsunTsunTzimTzum''. Neveah's backstory involved her growing up in a country suffering under a dictatorial government, so she led a rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was even worse. So she led a second rebellion to overthrow it. The government that followed was ''worse still.'' So then she led a third rebellion that put the original government back into place since apparently it was the best one that the country was capable of producing.
* ''Literature/{{Pale}}'': [[YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters Crooked Rook]] brings this up as a possibility, commenting that one of the few times she's been on the winning side in the struggle between practitioners and Others, the victorious Others became as bad as the practitioners they overthrew. She nevertheless remains committed and keeps fighting, [[{{Determinator}} because she's been doing this for so long that if she stopped fighting she might as well stop being Crooked Rook.]]
* In ''Literature/SeekersOfTheSky'', it is said that when the [[MessianicArchetype Redeemer]] was confronted by twelve Roman legionaries, he demonstrated the power of the [[PocketDimension Word]], causing eleven of the soldiers to become his new disciples (replacing the eleven disciples who had abandoned him shortly before that, with only one, implied to be Judas Iscariot, remaining loyal). The twelfth soldier said he didn't see a god, just the next emperor. Indeed, this turns out to be the case. The Redeemer eventually ascends to the Roman throne, causing the Sister (possibly Mary Magdalene) to turn away from him, causing the first even schism in the Church.
* ''Literature/OneHundredYearsOfSolitude'': Emissaries suggest to Colonel Aureliano Buendía that he makes major concessions to the Conservatives like giving back land titles, ending the fight against the church and giving up on fighting for equal rights for illegitimate children, in order to make peace and gain popular support. Colonel Gerineldo M´rquez objects because this would mean they would be just like the conservatives and would be fighting for nothing, but Aureliano accepts the terms, having become cynical and convinced they are just fighting for power and pride anyway.
* Redfern Jon Barrett's ''Literature/ProudPinkSky'' is set in an alternate Berlin that's also the world's first gay state. Formed after the Second World War, the gay republic was designed as a refuge for the persecuted – and then goes on to oppress its bisexual, trans, and genderqueer residents.
* In ''Literature/TheRisingOfTheShieldHero'', Itsuki Kawasumi, one of the three [[HeroWithAnFInGood Cardinal Heroes]], travels to a country whose inhabitants are beset by high taxes and kills its king, leaving convinced that he's fixed all the problems - when, in reality, said kingdom was having great troubles with attacking monsters, and not only did the new government raise taxes even higher to deal with the problem, the disruption ends up causing a large famine.
* Played with in Literature/TheGirlWhoCircumnavigatedFairylandInAShipOfHerOwnMaking series. To the Fairylanders they had ''two'' revolutions: the "good" one, where Mallowoverthrew the ruthless and gluttonous King Goldmnouth (who is eating the capital bit by bit and is willing to destroy entiure worlds to feed his hunger) and became TheHighQueen, and the "bad" one, where the Marquess seized the throne from Mallow and become [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen a cruel tyrant]]. In reality however [[spoiler: The Marquess is the same person as Mallow]].
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Played with in Literature/TheGirlWhoCircumnavigatedFairylandInAShipOfHerOwnMaking series. To the Fairylanders they had ''two'' revolutions: the "good" one, where Mallowoverthrew the ruthless and gluttonous King Goldmnouth (who is eating the capital bit by bit and is willing to destroy entiure worlds to feed his hunger) and became TheHighQueen, and the "bad" one, where the Marquess seized the throne from Mallow and become [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen a cruel tyrant]]. In reality however [[spoiler: The Marquess is the same person as Mallow]].
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
** In the prequel it's heavily implied that Goldmouth himself came to power by overthrowing a corrupt ruler, and was not nearly as bad back then.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Changed line(s) 306 (click to see context) from:
* ''Videogame/PapersPlease'': Even if EZIC succeeds, it's implied that they will end up committing the same atrocities as the government they are trying to overthrow, as they have a very low tolerance of those they consider traitors.
to:
* ''Videogame/PapersPlease'': ''VideoGame/PapersPlease'': Even if EZIC succeeds, it's implied that they will end up committing the same atrocities as the government they are trying to overthrow, as they have a very low tolerance of those they consider traitors.traitors.
* ''VideoGame/Persona5Tactica'':
** The second Kingdom's Tyrant, Yoshiki, ''claims'' this is what the Rebel Corps will bring about with their revolution. Initially it just looks like a final, delusional attempt to break Toshiro, who's having none of it, but it makes a lot more sense when the player sees a flashback in the following Kingdom, [[spoiler:where Toshiro believed that he started one when he and Eri Natsuhara stopped Nakabachi's plot, only for it to spiral out of control, where Nakabachi was harassed by several students, lots of people got arrested and/or gravely hurt, Natsuhara and Nakabachi themselves being the most affected, even if the incident was just a mishap nobody accounted for]].
** In the third kingdom, the Rebel Club turns on the party the moment Nakabachi is defeated, revealing their real target was [[spoiler:Toshiro all along. This event recreates what happened in Toshiro's past in real life: the students he encouraged to stand up to Nakabachi ended up going too far and harassing him into insanity, who all then turned on Toshiro when they were punished for it]].
* ''VideoGame/Persona5Tactica'':
** The second Kingdom's Tyrant, Yoshiki, ''claims'' this is what the Rebel Corps will bring about with their revolution. Initially it just looks like a final, delusional attempt to break Toshiro, who's having none of it, but it makes a lot more sense when the player sees a flashback in the following Kingdom, [[spoiler:where Toshiro believed that he started one when he and Eri Natsuhara stopped Nakabachi's plot, only for it to spiral out of control, where Nakabachi was harassed by several students, lots of people got arrested and/or gravely hurt, Natsuhara and Nakabachi themselves being the most affected, even if the incident was just a mishap nobody accounted for]].
** In the third kingdom, the Rebel Club turns on the party the moment Nakabachi is defeated, revealing their real target was [[spoiler:Toshiro all along. This event recreates what happened in Toshiro's past in real life: the students he encouraged to stand up to Nakabachi ended up going too far and harassing him into insanity, who all then turned on Toshiro when they were punished for it]].
