History Main / FairForItsDay

23rd Aug '16 8:09:23 AM SeaRover
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* Many argue that compulsory education laws give too much power to teachers and administrators over students, forcing kids and teenagers to sit around all day, read about stuff that doesn't interest them, socialize rather minimally, and possibly endure bullying, all with no direct pay[[note]]Technically, they do get paid, but in funding for college, not in money to buy stuff with[[/note]] or other real incentives. However, their enactment was meant in no small part to put an end to the rampant child labor that plagued the 19th and early 20th centuries.
14th Aug '16 5:20:30 PM LongTallShorty64
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** Similarly, Creator/FrankCapra's ''Film/TheBitterTeaOfGeneralYen'' contains a Swedish actor in {{yellowface}} who plays General Yen, but he's a complex character who wants to teach a naive missionary the truth about human nature. He falls in love with her (played by Creator/BarbaraStanwyck), and she with him. This film shocked its audiences and flopped, but it has some very biting criticisms about missionaries and their tendency for CondecendingCompassion, their racism, and their love for ideology but never practicing what they preach.

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** Similarly, Creator/FrankCapra's ''Film/TheBitterTeaOfGeneralYen'' contains a Swedish actor in {{yellowface}} who plays General Yen, but he's a complex character who wants to teach a naive missionary the truth about human nature. He falls in love with her (played by Creator/BarbaraStanwyck), and she with him. This film shocked its audiences and flopped, but it has some very biting criticisms about missionaries and their tendency for CondecendingCompassion, CondescendingCompassion, their racism, and their love for ideology but never practicing what they preach.
14th Aug '16 5:19:52 PM LongTallShorty64
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**Similarly, Creator/FrankCapra's ''Film/TheBitterTeaOfGeneralYen'' contains a Swedish actor in {{yellowface}} who plays General Yen, but he's a complex character who wants to teach a naive missionary the truth about human nature. He falls in love with her (played by Creator/BarbaraStanwyck), and she with him. This film shocked its audiences and flopped, but it has some very biting criticisms about missionaries and their tendency for CondecendingCompassion, their racism, and their love for ideology but never practicing what they preach.
13th Aug '16 12:32:17 PM nombretomado
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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler wrote in his non-fiction book ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that every major culture is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality not understandable]] from the POV of most other major cultures. Which he claimed was the case with westerners and Jews, too. Now, note he wrote this during a time when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about [[OnceAcceptableTargets the eeeevul Jews]]. And in another work, he criticized German antisemitism, pointing out that the Brits didn't mind that UsefulNotes/BenjaminDisraeli was Jewish, and only cared that he was a competent prime minister. And in yet another work, he wrote how real men don't care for the race of their women, and only choose whomever is the right mother for their kids -- and may even prefer women of another race. And finally, he pointed out how in South Africa, black and white miners worked in the same mine, but the white miner was paid 2 shillings per hour for 8 hours of work per day, while the black one (though Spengler used a different word starting with "K", which he likely didn't know is considered very offensive) worked 12 hours for 1 shilling (per day, not per hour).

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* [[DichterUndDenker [[UsefulNotes/DichterAndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler wrote in his non-fiction book ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that every major culture is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality not understandable]] from the POV of most other major cultures. Which he claimed was the case with westerners and Jews, too. Now, note he wrote this during a time when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about [[OnceAcceptableTargets the eeeevul Jews]]. And in another work, he criticized German antisemitism, pointing out that the Brits didn't mind that UsefulNotes/BenjaminDisraeli was Jewish, and only cared that he was a competent prime minister. And in yet another work, he wrote how real men don't care for the race of their women, and only choose whomever is the right mother for their kids -- and may even prefer women of another race. And finally, he pointed out how in South Africa, black and white miners worked in the same mine, but the white miner was paid 2 shillings per hour for 8 hours of work per day, while the black one (though Spengler used a different word starting with "K", which he likely didn't know is considered very offensive) worked 12 hours for 1 shilling (per day, not per hour).
8th Aug '16 8:31:10 AM edmiborn
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** Jefferson also, very radically for his time, insisted ardently that even if blacks were, in his words "inferior in both body and mind," that was no justification for slavery or for discriminating against them, pointing out that they were still "men". He also treated his slaves much more kindly than most masters, allowing them many holidays, breaks, and even payment on occasion, as well as refusing to use the whip or generally selling slaves. His justification for keeping his slaves was that, given the financial and legal barriers making it difficult to free slaves, it was not worth the risk as he felt they would rather be taken care of under his "protection" than cast out into a world which would not treat them well. Obviously this is incredibly paternalistic and racist by our modern standards, but when there were still many people who were ardently pro-slavery and who argued that blacks were "sub-human" or not-human altogether, Jefferson's emphasis on kind treatment and the humanity of blacks was cutting edge.

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** Jefferson also, very radically for his time, insisted ardently that even if blacks were, in his words "inferior in both body and mind," that was no justification for slavery or for discriminating against them, pointing out that they were still "men". He also treated his slaves much more kindly than most masters, allowing them many holidays, breaks, and even payment on occasion, as well as refusing to use the whip or generally selling slaves. His justification for keeping his slaves was that, given the financial and legal barriers making it difficult to free slaves, it was not worth the risk as he felt they would rather be taken care of under his "protection" than cast out into a world which would not treat them well. Obviously this is incredibly paternalistic and racist by our modern standards, but when there were still many people who were ardently pro-slavery and who argued that blacks were "sub-human" or not-human not human altogether, Jefferson's emphasis on kind treatment and the humanity of blacks was cutting edge.
7th Aug '16 9:10:57 PM edmiborn
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** Likewise, much has been made of Jefferson's slave ownership despite his egalitarian political beliefs, but Jefferson also strongly opposed the expansion of slavery and banned the international slave trade as president. Until his dying day he was still proposing plans for the education of slaves, the regulation of the practice, and even the gradual abolition of slavery itself. Given that the expansion of and trade in slaves were some of the worst parts of the slave system, Jefferson likely made a very radical humanitarian gain here. America's ban on the slave trade even preceded the celebrated British ban.
** Jefferson also, very radically for his time, insisted ardently that even if blacks were, in his words "inferior in both body and mind," that was no justification for slavery or for discriminating against them, pointing out that they were still "men". He also treated his slaves much more kindly than most masters, allowing them many holidays, breaks, and even payment on occasion, as well as refusing to use the whip or generally selling slaves. His justification for keeping his slaves was that, given the financial and legal barriers making it difficult to free slaves, it was not worth the risk as he felt they would rather be taken care of under his "protection" than cast out into a world which would not treat them well. Obviously this is incredibly paternalistic and racist by our modern standards, but when there were still many people who were ardently pro-slavery and who argued that blacks were "sub-human" or not-human altogether, Jefferson's emphasis on kind treatment and the humanity of blacks was cutting edge.
** Jefferson's feelings on women and Native Americans were also progressive for the day. While Jefferson did not support women's suffrage himself, he pushed for expanded education for women and gave significant support to many early suffragettes like Frances Wright. And although Jefferson favored the assimilation of natives like most others of his time he also took great pains to protect their cultural practices, religious beliefs, and languages, which many contemporaries thought should be wiped out as "savage".
2nd Aug '16 7:27:08 AM JamesAustin
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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler wrote in his non-fiction book ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that every major culture is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality not understandable]] from the POV of most other major cultures. Which he claimed was the case with westerners and Jews, too. Now, note he wrote this during a time when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about [[OnceAcceptableTargets the eeeevul Jews]]. And in another work, he criticized German antisemitism, pointing out that the Brits didn't mind that Creator/BenjaminDisraeli was Jewish, and only cared that he was a competent prime minister. And in yet another work, he wrote how real men don't care for the race of their women, and only choose whomever is the right mother for their kids -- and may even prefer women of another race. And finally, he pointed out how in South Africa, black and white miners worked in the same mine, but the white miner was paid 2 shillings per hour for 8 hours of work per day, while the black one (though Spengler used a different word starting with "K", which he likely didn't know is considered very offensive) worked 12 hours for 1 shilling (per day, not per hour).

to:

* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler wrote in his non-fiction book ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that every major culture is [[BlueAndOrangeMorality not understandable]] from the POV of most other major cultures. Which he claimed was the case with westerners and Jews, too. Now, note he wrote this during a time when antisemites would spread the craziest conspiracy theories about [[OnceAcceptableTargets the eeeevul Jews]]. And in another work, he criticized German antisemitism, pointing out that the Brits didn't mind that Creator/BenjaminDisraeli UsefulNotes/BenjaminDisraeli was Jewish, and only cared that he was a competent prime minister. And in yet another work, he wrote how real men don't care for the race of their women, and only choose whomever is the right mother for their kids -- and may even prefer women of another race. And finally, he pointed out how in South Africa, black and white miners worked in the same mine, but the white miner was paid 2 shillings per hour for 8 hours of work per day, while the black one (though Spengler used a different word starting with "K", which he likely didn't know is considered very offensive) worked 12 hours for 1 shilling (per day, not per hour).
19th Jul '16 7:14:06 PM jogarz
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* Yes the Roman Empire was a slave holding society, much of its population lived in abject poverty and life expectancy was probably no higher than the mid 30s. They also had plumbing made from lead (plumbum in Latin) and overall environmental pollution was probably worse than in many first world countries today, but they also had a remarkably meritocratic military, a relatively fair system of taxation, built roads so good they were still in use by the time the first cars came around and created a need for wider roads, established peace in Europe on a level never achieved until the end of World War II and even provided a very rudimentary system of aid to the (free) urban poor of Rome (which is incidentally where the term "proletarian" comes from). Rome was also very tolerant on the religious front with basically any type of polytheism allowed and sometimes even openly embraced (at the height of the empire there were temples for Babylonian and Egyptian goddesses in Rome) and Judaism as ''religio licita'' (allowed religion) was excluded from the need to worship the emperor.

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* Yes Yes, the Roman Empire was a slave holding society, and much of its population lived in abject poverty and life expectancy was probably no higher than the mid 30s.poverty. They also had plumbing made from lead (plumbum in Latin) and overall environmental pollution was probably worse than in many first world countries today, but they also had a remarkably meritocratic military, a relatively fair system of taxation, built roads so good they were still in use by the time the first cars came around and created a need for wider roads, established peace in Europe on a level never achieved until the end of World War II and even provided a very rudimentary system of aid to the (free) urban poor of Rome (which is incidentally where the term "proletarian" comes from). Rome was also very tolerant on the religious front with basically any type of polytheism allowed and sometimes even openly embraced (at the height of the empire there were temples for Babylonian and Egyptian goddesses in Rome) and Judaism as ''religio licita'' (allowed religion) was excluded from the need to worship the emperor.
15th Jul '16 1:04:04 AM honeybrown1976
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***Sharecroppers lived one level above slaves.
10th Jul '16 2:24:30 PM trentongm
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** Caesar had a desire to spare his enemies that would baffle modern politicians. He insisted that his conflict with Pompeii was based on a misunderstanding, and was said to have cried over his corpse when a third party killed him. He also pardoned many of the other factions' leaders after defeating their armies, many of whom contributed to his assassination. Caesar's successor, Augustus, learned from this and co-opted Caesar's reputation for mercy, but made sure to have genuinely dangerous rivals killed before the ceasefires came.
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