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History Main / EmpireWithADarkSecret

17th May '16 10:27:33 AM MaulMachine
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*** Though, ironically, the Chaos Gods don't benefit from people devotedly and piously praying to the Emperor either. It's just that the Emperor's method of suppressing the Chaos Gods involved people shedding all superstition and unnecessary beliefs, which would have inconvenienced the Chaos Gods. He may have also betrayed them on some joint project at some point as well, it's never made explicit.



*** According to an in-universe source, anyway, which other Eldar don't seem to recognize. 40K canon is about as twisted and contradictory as ''Elder Scrolls'' lore.



** The fact that the ''entire game-setting'' is a construct built by the Dark Powers, via dubious methods and for unknown purposes, also qualifies.

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** The fact that the ''entire game-setting'' is a construct built by the Dark Powers, via dubious methods and for unknown purposes, also qualifies. The Powers aren't the mightiest forces in the settings of Dungeons and Dragons, but they are close; they still take great pains to not reveal who they actually are.
17th May '16 10:21:03 AM MaulMachine
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*** It's actually stated outright by several former Imperials who joined up with the Rebellion that the openness of the evils and dark secrets in the Empire is one of the reasons so ''many'' Imperials defect. Even if a normal person could rationalize a single destroyed planet far away, the Empire has destroyed or enslaved well over a dozen by the time the Rebels take the capital. Alderaan wasn't even the first. Kashyyyk, Ralltiir, Hethrir's homeworld of Firrerro, Toprawa, Despayr, Aeten 2, and as many as a dozen more were enslaved outright, destroyed, or depopulated, either through direct Imperial action or proxies (Camaas, Honoghr). As one defector explained, Alderaan could be explained or rationalized as Tarkin's folly, but when it ''kept happening,'' the Empire's reputation became its own worst enemy.
22nd Mar '16 1:45:15 PM 20person
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*** Ironically, it was the Emperor himself who imprisoned the Void Dragon on [[spoiler:Mars]] during the Middle Ages, as part of a BatmanGambit that would allow the foundation of the Adeptus Mechanicus (whom he needed to conquer the galaxy) thousands of years down the line.
20th Jan '16 8:27:33 AM Willbyr
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* ''GiantRobo: The Day The Earth Stood Still'' has the miraculous Shizuma Drive, which ushers in the Third Energy Revolution and a new golden age for all mankind. Trouble is [[spoiler:the first, hasty test of the Shizuma Drive wipes out an entire country in the Tragedy of Bashtarle, killing uncounted millions of people]]

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* ''GiantRobo: ''Manga/GiantRobo: The Day The Earth Stood Still'' has the miraculous Shizuma Drive, which ushers in the Third Energy Revolution and a new golden age for all mankind. Trouble is [[spoiler:the first, hasty test of the Shizuma Drive wipes out an entire country in the Tragedy of Bashtarle, killing uncounted millions of people]]



* The [[AncientConspiracy Lost One Hundred Years]] within the ''OnePiece'' universe is kept secret by the paranoid [[TheGovernment World Government]]. Any attempt to learn the lost language to decipher the secrets of the poneglyphs left behind by the long-forgotten civilization (i.e. something close to OUR civilization) that preceded the World Government will result in the [[SenselessWasteOfHumanLife immediate death of the researcher and anyone remotely connected with them]] as well as the obliteration of their research to the point of '''bombing an entire island into rubble'''!

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* The [[AncientConspiracy Lost One Hundred Years]] within the ''OnePiece'' ''Franchise/OnePiece'' universe is kept secret by the paranoid [[TheGovernment World Government]]. Any attempt to learn the lost language to decipher the secrets of the poneglyphs left behind by the long-forgotten civilization (i.e. something close to OUR civilization) that preceded the World Government will result in the [[SenselessWasteOfHumanLife immediate death of the researcher and anyone remotely connected with them]] as well as the obliteration of their research to the point of '''bombing an entire island into rubble'''!



* SEELE in ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'' is running a thousand-year old AncientConspiracy. Not only they've influenced humanity's advancement towards their AssimilationPlot but part of this influence was intentionally causing a global catastrophe (the awakening of Adam in the Antarctic which led to the melting of the polar ice caps and global sea levels rising and destroying all coastal settlements, this plus the resulting wars ending with a death toll of ''three billion'') but covering it up as an asteroid impact. Oh, and the CapturedSuperEntity they worship and want to use for said AssimilationPlot? A sentient terraforming device of alien origin (although they might not realize it themselves, the "sacred" Dead Sea Scrolls are actually an instruction manual misinterpreted as religious text). And the kicker: not only the AssimilationPlot will be what is essentially TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt, SEELE's leadership of humanity from behind the scenes subtly influenced society in such a way that no one is 100% sane anymore and global birth rates are dropping rapidly so either they successfully pull out Instrumentality or '''humanity will die out in a few generations'''.

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* SEELE in ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'' is running a thousand-year old AncientConspiracy. Not only they've have they influenced humanity's advancement towards their AssimilationPlot but part of this influence was intentionally causing a global catastrophe (the awakening of Adam in the Antarctic which led to the melting of the polar ice caps and global sea levels rising and destroying all coastal settlements, this plus the resulting wars ending with a death toll of ''three billion'') but covering it up as an asteroid impact. Oh, and the CapturedSuperEntity they worship and want to use for said AssimilationPlot? A sentient terraforming device of alien origin (although they might not realize it themselves, the "sacred" Dead Sea Scrolls are actually an instruction manual misinterpreted as religious text). And the kicker: not only the AssimilationPlot will be what is essentially TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt, SEELE's leadership of humanity from behind the scenes subtly influenced society in such a way that no one is 100% sane anymore and global birth rates are dropping rapidly so either they successfully pull out Instrumentality or '''humanity will die out in a few generations'''.
10th Dec '15 5:52:03 AM JulianLapostat
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* This is true about nearly ''any'' and every country with a history of imperialism that wants to promote national pride in the present day. Some argue that this is especially bad in and/or hypocritical in the case of imperialism done by putatively democratic nations. Conquerers and Kings [[AtLeastIMadeIt make no bones about them taking over other nations]]. The idea of "benign" empire, i.e. conquest disguised as civilizing missions was developed by Parliamentary Britain and Republican France to justify why, despite supporting principles of sovereignty at home, they chose to deny it to people in colonies abroad. The same applies to the USSR's empire, which occupied Poland and much of Eastern Europe.

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* This is true about nearly ''any'' and every country with a history of imperialism that wants to promote national pride in the present day. Some argue that this is especially bad in and/or hypocritical in the case of imperialism done by putatively democratic nations. Conquerers and Kings [[AtLeastIMadeIt [[AtLeastIAdmitIt make no bones about them taking over other nations]]. The idea of "benign" empire, i.e. conquest disguised as civilizing missions was developed by Parliamentary Britain and Republican France to justify why, despite supporting principles of sovereignty at home, they chose to deny it to people in colonies abroad. The same applies to the USSR's empire, which occupied Poland and much of Eastern Europe.
10th Dec '15 5:51:35 AM JulianLapostat
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which UsefulNotes/UlyssesBGrant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East.

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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which UsefulNotes/UlyssesBGrant Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East.
10th Dec '15 5:51:06 AM JulianLapostat
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** The British can't quite get away with saying that they ''[[ImplausibleDeniability weren't]]'' an empire. Instead much ink is spilled in Parliament and conservative press and literature about how the English were more benevolent than the other Empires, and how much worse things would have been if they hadn't conquered these nations. A counterfactual presented as a defense, often in the vein of invoking BenignAlienInvasion and WhatTheRomansHaveDoneForUs! Never mind such blunders of diplomacy as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Irish Troubles, the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Partition of India, all of them consequences of British policies and whose consequences still persist to this day.

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** The British can't quite get away with saying that they ''[[ImplausibleDeniability weren't]]'' an empire. Instead much ink is spilled in Parliament and conservative press and literature about how the English were more benevolent than the other Empires, and how much worse things would have been if they hadn't conquered these nations. A counterfactual presented as a defense, often in the vein of invoking BenignAlienInvasion BenevolentAlienInvasion and WhatTheRomansHaveDoneForUs! Never mind such blunders of diplomacy as the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Irish Troubles, the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Partition of India, all of them consequences of British policies and whose consequences still persist to this day.
10th Dec '15 5:50:19 AM JulianLapostat
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* The corruption and violence of the French colonial empire was a big taboo in French society until its collapse and it kept existing until today. Many French today still do not know that one of the worst famines in history happened in Algeria after France conquered it.

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* The corruption Until the 60s and violence 70s, UsefulNotes/CharlesDeGaulle promoted what historians now call "the myth of the Resistance" i.e. that "France had liberated itself" and the Resistance was a widely popular event. While it did exist almost from the beginning of France's surrender, LaResistance was always a minority. Most of the French colonial empire was a big taboo people accepted occupation out of indifference, stunned by defeat and apathy. The segment of the population who were LesCollaborateurs, were in fact numerically superior to LaResistance. The most famous example is Milice, pro-Nazi paramilitaries and the French society until its collapse police who participated in UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust. This "myth" cracked in the 60s and it kept existing until today. Many French today still do not know that one of 70s, and played a role in the worst famines in history happened in Algeria after France conquered it.May '68 Protests.



* In fact, just about ''any'' and every country with a history of imperialism that wants to promote national pride in the present day is apt to suffer from this trope to some extent. Imperialism is an ugly business, and even the most "benign" empires were more than happy to ruthlessly suppress subject peoples and engage in cynical profiteering off the backs of their imperial provinces while under the guise of some great civilising mission (and of course some nations such as the post colonial american nations or 20th century Communist states proclaimed they were ''totally'' not empires and were in fact anti imperial republics....not that this stopped them engaging in acts of blatant imperialism). The best way to deal with that ugliness, in the minds of some 'patriots', is to sweep it under the carpet and focus on the 'good' parts. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement Let's not put any specific examples.]]

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* In fact, just This is true about nearly ''any'' and every country with a history of imperialism that wants to promote national pride in the present day is apt to suffer from day. Some argue that this trope to some extent. Imperialism is an ugly business, especially bad in and/or hypocritical in the case of imperialism done by putatively democratic nations. Conquerers and even the most Kings [[AtLeastIMadeIt make no bones about them taking over other nations]]. The idea of "benign" empires empire, i.e. conquest disguised as civilizing missions was developed by Parliamentary Britain and Republican France to justify why, despite supporting principles of sovereignty at home, they chose to deny it to people in colonies abroad. The same applies to the USSR's empire, which occupied Poland and much of Eastern Europe.
** The corruption and violence of the French colonial empire was a big taboo in French society until its collapse. To some extent that taboo persists today. Many French today still do not know that one of the worst famines in history happened in Algeria after France conquered it. And likewise their schenanigans in Indo China and Vietnam. Indeed, it's likely that the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar could have been avoided entirely if France committed itself to decolonization after the war. Instead they persisted in holding on to both Vietnam and Algeria only to lose both amid bloody violence, mass repression and terrorism engendered in reaction to French hegemony.
** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which UsefulNotes/UlyssesBGrant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East.
** The British can't quite get away with saying that they ''[[ImplausibleDeniability weren't]]'' an empire. Instead much ink is spilled in Parliament and conservative press and literature about how the English
were more benevolent than happy to ruthlessly suppress subject peoples the other Empires, and engage how much worse things would have been if they hadn't conquered these nations. A counterfactual presented as a defense, often in cynical profiteering off the backs vein of their imperial provinces while under the guise of some great civilising mission (and of course some nations invoking BenignAlienInvasion and WhatTheRomansHaveDoneForUs! Never mind such blunders of diplomacy as the post colonial american nations or 20th century Communist states proclaimed they were ''totally'' not empires Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Irish Troubles, the Arab-Israeli conflict and were in fact anti imperial republics....not that the Partition of India, all of them consequences of British policies and whose consequences still persist to this stopped them engaging in acts of blatant imperialism). The best way to deal with that ugliness, in the minds of some 'patriots', is to sweep it under the carpet and focus on the 'good' parts. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement Let's not put any specific examples.]]day.
10th Dec '15 3:23:33 AM MAI742
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* The death camps of the Holocaust were so well hidden in the countryside that the German people didn't know about them. Some did know that Jews were being arrested and sent away, but few knew that there was a genocide going on. It must be noted, however, that this is ''highly'' debatable, with many historians concluding that large numbers of Germans did know, and neither cared or approved.
** Subverting and denying this trope were the main reasons that General Eisenhower made sure that as many German civilians as possible, as well as US troops in the area, visited the camps before burial operations had occurred. Eisenhower wanted there to be an overwhelming number of eyewitnesses to Nazi horror so that no person could ever reasonably say "it never happened."

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* The Shooting actions and death camps of the Holocaust TheHolocaust were so well hidden an open secret in wartime Germany, since everyone knew someone (who knew someone [who knew someone]) who was involved in the countryside that the process and people in general are both curious and gossipy. Interestingly most German military personnel, policemen, civil servants, and civilians later claimed that TheHolocaust had occurred in such remote places and under conditions of such secrecy that they only learned about it after the war. This was untrue, [[BelievingTheirOwnLies but many of the people didn't know about them. Some did know that Jews who claimed this probably thought they were being arrested telling the truth. Human memory is subject to change over time as we subconsciously change our memories to fit and sent away, but few knew that there was a genocide going on. It must be noted, however, that justify our view of ourselves and others. An important and well-documented part of this process is ''highly'' debatable, with many historians concluding that large numbers of Germans did know, forgetting things which contradict our views and neither cared or approved.
remembering things which vindicate them.]]
** Subverting and denying this trope were the main reasons that General Eisenhower made sure that as many German civilians as possible, as well as US troops in the area, visited several Work Camps (where workers who became unfit between January and May '45 who would previously have been euthanized at the camps recently-liberated Extermination Camps in Poland were left to die of malnutrition) before burial operations had occurred. Eisenhower wanted there to be an overwhelming number of non-Communist eyewitnesses to Nazi horror the atrocities so that no person no-one could ever reasonably say "it never happened."
25th Nov '15 8:04:20 PM DanaO
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** It's been noted in-universe neither of these secrets seems actually ''worth keeping''; their citizenry wouldn't mind what's happening, it would reassure their neighbors and their system's breaking down entirely because nobody knows why they're really doing things and thus mismanage the few necessary changes. At the same time, Armethalieh is very openly doing some nasty things which have given it a dark and ugly reputation - and worse, by people who can be trusted to do these for the wrong reasons so ''not even they'' need be let in on it. The whole thing's a study in societal erosion, [[spoiler: not at all natural]].
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