History Main / EmpireWithADarkSecret

30th Nov '16 1:43:41 PM BrendanRizzo
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several [[BananaRepublic client states and dictators]] across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong and so pervasive, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that America ever had an empire!)

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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, [[NoExceptYes except for that time time]] they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B.S. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several [[BananaRepublic client states and dictators]] across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong and so pervasive, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that America ever had an empire!)empire!)
*** For that matter, the very existence of such things as slavery[[note]]which the US was the very last Western country to abolish, unless one counts Brazil[[/note]] and the century and a half of institutional discrimination that followed, could count as this since American primary schools go to great lengths to imply that the US is the greatest country in the world and that it alone is immune to governmental abuse of power, and therefore [[AmericaWinsTheWar the only reason that other democracies even exist]]. Those Americans who find out otherwise tend to be ''[[MyCountryTisOfTheeThatISting pissed]]''.
8th Nov '16 2:46:47 AM Gowan
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Added DiffLines:

* In Lord of the Rings fanfic [[http://archiveofourown.org/works/7142897/chapters/16218209 Heart of the Mountain ]], the mountain kingdom of Erebor is this. The protagonists were not in on the secret and are horrified when they find out.
28th Oct '16 8:41:37 PM mirisu92
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong and so pervasive, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that America ever had an empire!)

to:

** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several [[BananaRepublic client states and dictators dictators]] across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong and so pervasive, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that America ever had an empire!)
22nd Oct '16 10:04:36 PM mirisu92
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** The corruption and violence of the French colonial empire was a big taboo in French society until its collapse. To some extent that taboo persists today. Many French today still do not know that one of the worst famines in history happened in Algeria after France conquered it. And likewise their schenanigans in Indo China and Vietnam. Indeed, it's likely that the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar could have been avoided entirely if France committed itself to decolonization after the war. Instead they persisted in holding on to both Vietnam and Algeria only to lose both amid bloody violence, mass repression and terrorism engendered in reaction to French hegemony.
** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, and so infectious, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that the US was ever an empire!)

to:

** The corruption and violence of the French colonial empire was a big taboo in French society until its collapse. To some extent that taboo persists today. Many French today still do not know that one of the worst famines in history happened in Algeria after France conquered it. And likewise their schenanigans shenanigans in Indo China Indochina and Vietnam. Indeed, it's likely that the UsefulNotes/VietnamWar could have been avoided entirely if France committed itself to decolonization after the war. Instead they persisted in holding on to both Vietnam and Algeria only to lose both amid bloody violence, mass repression and terrorism engendered in reaction to French hegemony.
** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, strong and so infectious, pervasive, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that the US was America ever had an empire!)
22nd Oct '16 10:00:38 PM mirisu92
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, and so infectious, that ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that the US was ever an empire!)

to:

** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, UsefulNotes/SpanishAmericanWar, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, and so infectious, that today ''even the Filipinos themselves'' have taken to denying that the US was ever an empire!)
22nd Oct '16 9:59:53 PM mirisu92
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, even ''the Filipinos themselves'' refuse to see the US as ever having been an empire!)

to:

** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, even ''the and so infectious, that ''even the Filipinos themselves'' refuse have taken to see denying that the US as was ever having been an empire!)
22nd Oct '16 9:56:54 PM mirisu92
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** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East.

to:

** The United States is absolutely not an Empire, except for that time they conquered Mexico (which Ulysses B. Grant himself admitted was little more than land grabbing), or that time they conquered the Philippines in the Spanish American War, or that time they established several client states and dictators across Latin America and the Middle East. (In the case of the Philippines, American doublethink in its colonial policy was so strong, even ''the Filipinos themselves'' refuse to see the US as ever having been an empire!)
22nd Oct '16 5:56:52 AM Morgenthaler
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* The Shooting actions and death camps of TheHolocaust were an open secret in wartime Germany, since everyone knew someone (who knew someone [who knew someone]) who was involved in the process and people in general are both curious and gossipy. Interestingly most German military personnel, policemen, civil servants, and civilians later claimed that TheHolocaust had occurred in such remote places and under conditions of such secrecy that they only learned about it after the war. This was untrue, [[BelievingTheirOwnLies but many of the people who claimed this probably thought they were telling the truth. Human memory is subject to change over time as we subconsciously change our memories to fit and justify our view of ourselves and others. An important and well-documented part of this process is forgetting things which contradict our views and remembering things which vindicate them.]]
** Subverting and denying this trope were the main reasons that General Eisenhower made sure that as many German civilians as possible, as well as US troops in the area, visited several Work Camps (where workers who became unfit between January and May '45 who would previously have been euthanized at the recently-liberated Extermination Camps in Poland were left to die of malnutrition) before burial operations had occurred. Eisenhower wanted there to be an overwhelming number of non-Communist eyewitnesses to the atrocities so that no-one could ever reasonably say "it never happened."

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* The Shooting actions and death camps of TheHolocaust UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust were an open secret in wartime Germany, since everyone knew someone (who knew someone [who knew someone]) who was involved in the process and people in general are both curious and gossipy. Interestingly most German military personnel, policemen, civil servants, and civilians later claimed that TheHolocaust had occurred in such remote places and under conditions of such secrecy that they only learned about it after the war. This was untrue, [[BelievingTheirOwnLies but many of the people who claimed this probably thought they were telling the truth. Human memory is subject to change over time as we subconsciously change our memories to fit and justify our view of ourselves and others. An important and well-documented part of this process is forgetting things which contradict our views and remembering things which vindicate them.]]
**
]] Subverting and denying this trope were the main reasons that General Eisenhower made sure that as many German civilians as possible, as well as US troops in the area, visited several Work Camps (where workers who became unfit between January and May '45 who would previously have been euthanized at the recently-liberated Extermination Camps in Poland were left to die of malnutrition) before burial operations had occurred. Eisenhower wanted there to be an overwhelming number of non-Communist eyewitnesses to the atrocities so that no-one could ever reasonably say "it never happened."
22nd Oct '16 5:37:30 AM Morgenthaler
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* The People's Republic of China takes the official stance that it has never done anything bad to its people, though it is alone stating this. Most egregious would be the millions who died in the famines of The Second Five-Year Economic Plan/'Great Leap Forward'[[note]] aka 'The Three Years of Natural Disasters', the deaths being in no way the party's or Mao's fault even though (leaving aside whether he knew of it or not) as the country's leader he was ultimately reponsible. [[/note]], followed by the popular delusion and murderous mob-violence of The Cultural Revolution[[note]] which supposedly had no populist dimension and is instead blamed on a handful of senior leaders acting to undermine Mao, even though it was all his idea and the term 'revolution' should probably be a tip-off as to his intention to get ordinary people involved in denoucing and beating up/to death their ideologically-unorthodox neighbours and/or family members[[/note]], and lastly the 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre that the US-of-Americans are so fond of mentioning at every opportunity[[note]] which was either an isolated riot by criminals and/or foreign-backed extremists, or simply never happened... though the demonstrations really were mostly about working conditions, wages, etcetc rather than demanding an end to the Chinese Communist Party or wanting elections or anything weird and foreigner-loving like that. [[/note]]. All this censorship does a lot to explain the respect many people have for MaoZedong despite the ''immense'' suffering he inflicted upon China's peoples, for one thing, and why there still ''is'' a Chinese Communist Party for another. There's no talk of ''ever'' publicly acknowledging this stuff, because nobody knows how the Chinese will take it and the people responsible (and their children and grandchildren, who form today's Party Leadership) have no pressing desire to find out.

to:

* The People's Republic of China takes the official stance that it has never done anything bad to its people, though it is alone stating this. Most egregious would be the millions who died in the famines of The Second Five-Year Economic Plan/'Great Leap Forward'[[note]] aka 'The Three Years of Natural Disasters', the deaths being in no way the party's or Mao's fault even though (leaving aside whether he knew of it or not) as the country's leader he was ultimately reponsible. [[/note]], followed by the popular delusion and murderous mob-violence of The Cultural Revolution[[note]] which supposedly had no populist dimension and is instead blamed on a handful of senior leaders acting to undermine Mao, even though it was all his idea and the term 'revolution' should probably be a tip-off as to his intention to get ordinary people involved in denoucing and beating up/to death their ideologically-unorthodox neighbours and/or family members[[/note]], and lastly the 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre that the US-of-Americans are so fond of mentioning at every opportunity[[note]] which was either an isolated riot by criminals and/or foreign-backed extremists, or simply never happened... though the demonstrations really were mostly about working conditions, wages, etcetc rather than demanding an end to the Chinese Communist Party or wanting elections or anything weird and foreigner-loving like that. [[/note]]. All this censorship does a lot to explain the respect many people have for MaoZedong UsefulNotes/MaoZedong despite the ''immense'' suffering he inflicted upon China's peoples, for one thing, and why there still ''is'' a Chinese Communist Party for another. There's no talk of ''ever'' publicly acknowledging this stuff, because nobody knows how the Chinese will take it and the people responsible (and their children and grandchildren, who form today's Party Leadership) have no pressing desire to find out.
2nd Oct '16 9:10:40 PM nombretomado
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* Veracia, largest and (at least until recently) most powerful nation in the world of ''ErrantStory'', is pretty much founded on this trope.

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* Veracia, largest and (at least until recently) most powerful nation in the world of ''ErrantStory'', ''Webcomic/ErrantStory'', is pretty much founded on this trope.
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