History Main / ContestedSequel

26th Jun '17 3:20:06 PM CurledUpWithDakka
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Similarly, fans are divided in regards to ''Film/{{Prometheus}}''. Some admire the film for its efforts to break off the formula established in the previous films by downplaying the Xenomorph attacks and instead bring something new by focusing on different aspect of the same universe, while others are critical of the fact that Xenomorph attacks are minimal at best and that the connections to ''Alien'' are incredibly small plot-wise [[note]]For those of you who don't know the concept was inspired by the "Space Jockey" fossil seen in ''Alien. The plot reveals information about its species but we don't actually learn much about that particular individual[[/note]].

to:

** Similarly, fans are divided in regards to ''Film/{{Prometheus}}''. Some admire the film for its efforts to break off the formula established in the previous films by downplaying the Xenomorph attacks and instead bring something new by focusing on different aspect of the same universe, while others are critical of the fact that Xenomorph attacks are minimal at best and that the connections to ''Alien'' are incredibly small plot-wise [[note]]For those of you who don't know the concept was inspired by the "Space Jockey" fossil seen in ''Alien.''Alien''. The plot reveals information about its species but we don't actually learn much about that particular individual[[/note]].



** ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' became one within a single weekend of its release. While considered by some a step up from the prequels, the arguments are still raging over whether it's a great return to classic ''Franchise/Star Wars'' or if Disney just rehashed ''Film/ANewHope'' and not including enough original material to make it good. Add in the people who are already unhappy with the EU being made non-canon...

to:

** ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' became one within a single weekend of its release. While considered by some a step up from the prequels, the arguments are still raging over whether it's a great return to classic ''Franchise/Star Wars'' ''Franchise/StarWars'' or if Disney just rehashed ''Film/ANewHope'' and not including enough original material to make it good. Add in the people who are already unhappy with the EU being made non-canon...
24th Jun '17 5:55:35 AM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Any console game that [[ToughActToFollow follows]] ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Ocarina of Time]]'' is immediately LoveItOrHateIt among fans and gamers. ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaMajorasMask Majora's Mask]]'', for example, was not widely liked at the time of its release for [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks being too different]] from ''Ocarina of Time'' ([[DarkerAndEdgier and darker]]) but some fans consider it the best game in the series. The subsequent games, ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker The Wind Waker]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess Twilight Princess]]'', went as far as causing an internal FandomRivalry, as the former departed from the overworld mechanics and changed the visuals to cel-shading, while the latter followed the more traditional conventions, both to praise and criticism.

to:

** Any console game that [[ToughActToFollow follows]] ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime Ocarina of Time]]'' is immediately LoveItOrHateIt among fans and gamers. ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaMajorasMask Majora's Mask]]'', for example, was not widely liked at the time of its release for [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks being too different]] from ''Ocarina of Time'' ([[DarkerAndEdgier and darker]]) but some fans consider it the best game in the series. The subsequent games, ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker The Wind Waker]]'' and ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTwilightPrincess Twilight Princess]]'', went as far as causing an internal FandomRivalry, a BrokenBase, as the former departed from the overworld mechanics and changed the visuals to cel-shading, while the latter followed the more traditional conventions, both to praise and criticism.
24th Jun '17 4:52:13 AM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'' have become a particularly pronounced example, especially as time has gone on. The people who dislike the game tend to point to Kalos being a rather uninteresting region overall that, despite the "French" theme, doesn't do a whole lot of interesting things mechanically or story-wise to make it memorable (especially compared to [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite the 5th Generation]], which it comes right on the heels of) and what new mechanics there are, like Mega Evolution, feeling somewhat out of character for the series, with [[ItsEasySoItSucks the very easy difficulty]] and lack of post-game not helping matters. The fact that the games feature a considerable amount of [[ShoutOut references]] and [[CallBack call-backs]] to ''VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue'' has also drawn the ire of those irritated by the prevalence of [[NostalgiaFilter Genwunners]][[labelnote:Explanation]]People who feel that the first generation of ''Pokémon'' (and in some cases the second as well) are the only good one(s)[[/labelnote]] in the fandom, believing the references to be an over-exaggerated response to Generation V's [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks detractors]] or an attempt to [[WinBackTheCrowd win back]] older fans who grew up with Gen I but lost interest in the franchise overall. Those who ''like'' the games, though, tend to be very passionate about it, and are very attached to things like the huge Pokédex with two sets of starters and legendaries, trainer customization, Pokémon-Amie, the orchestral-sounding soundtrack, the more diverse cast, the vastly improved competitive breeding/training mechanics, and even Mega Evolution and how it gives a number of old favorites a new lease on life and shakes up the metagame. Additionally, the aforementioned Generation I pandering attracts many fans who enjoyed Gen I and its Pokémon, especially its iconic starters and legendaries, whether or not they identify as "Genwunners". All of these opinions tend to come into particularly sharp relief in [[FlameWar online debates]] about ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon'', and what direction those games should take.

to:

** ''VideoGame/PokemonXAndY'' have become a particularly pronounced example, especially as time has gone on. The people who dislike the game tend to point to Kalos being a rather uninteresting region overall that, despite the "French" theme, doesn't do a whole lot of interesting things mechanically or story-wise to make it memorable (especially compared to [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite the 5th Generation]], which it comes right on the heels of) and what new mechanics there are, like Mega Evolution, feeling somewhat out of character for the series, with [[ItsEasySoItSucks the very easy difficulty]] and lack of post-game not helping matters. The fact that the games feature a considerable amount of [[ShoutOut references]] and [[CallBack call-backs]] to ''VideoGame/PokemonRedAndBlue'' has also drawn the ire of those irritated by the prevalence of [[NostalgiaFilter Genwunners]][[labelnote:Explanation]]People who feel that the first generation of ''Pokémon'' (and in some cases the second as well) are the only good one(s)[[/labelnote]] in the fandom, believing the references to be an over-exaggerated response to Generation V's [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks detractors]] or an attempt to [[WinBackTheCrowd win back]] older fans who grew up with Gen I but lost interest in the franchise overall. \\
\\
Those who ''like'' the games, though, tend to be very passionate about it, and are very attached to things like the huge Pokédex with two sets of starters and legendaries, trainer customization, Pokémon-Amie, the orchestral-sounding soundtrack, the more diverse cast, the vastly improved competitive breeding/training mechanics, and even Mega Evolution and how it gives a number of old favorites a new lease on life and shakes up the metagame. Additionally, the aforementioned Generation I pandering attracts many fans who enjoyed Gen I and its Pokémon, especially its iconic starters and legendaries, whether or not they identify as "Genwunners". All of these opinions tend to come into particularly sharp relief in [[FlameWar online debates]] about ''VideoGame/PokemonSunAndMoon'', and what direction those games should take.
22nd Jun '17 1:23:11 AM Adept
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''Film/RogueOne'': A refreshing change of pace for focusing on MugglesDoItBetter, showing the brutality of the early Rebellion, going GrayAndGrayMorality, and addressing many of {{DavidBrin}}'s and [[KnightsOfTheOldRepublicIITheSithLords Chris Avellone's]] criticisms of the franchise, or a joyless slog with an underbaked cast of characters, some hamhanded attempts to shoehorn OscarBait tropes into a Star Wars film, and a KillEmAll ending that subverts the whole MugglesDoItBetter concept so that the cast really are nothing more than {{RedShirt}}s?

to:

** ''Film/RogueOne'': A refreshing change of pace for focusing on MugglesDoItBetter, showing the brutality of the early Rebellion, going GrayAndGrayMorality, and addressing many of {{DavidBrin}}'s Creator/DavidBrin's and [[KnightsOfTheOldRepublicIITheSithLords Chris Avellone's]] Avellone's criticisms of the franchise, or a joyless slog with an underbaked cast of characters, some hamhanded attempts to shoehorn OscarBait tropes into a Star Wars film, and a KillEmAll ending that subverts the whole MugglesDoItBetter concept so that the cast really are nothing more than {{RedShirt}}s?
21st Jun '17 12:17:26 PM capthanos
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the sequel series to the much-beloved ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', had a bit of a rocky start, with rushed production schedules leading to flaws that the original show didn't have to deal with. This led to a lot of fans of ''The Last Airbender'' jumping ship in the first two seasons, declaring ''Korra'' to be a pale imitation of their favorite show. After the fact, there seems to be less of this, as Korra [[GrowingTheBeard came into its own]] during season 3. Many fans warmed up to the series in retrospect, considering it a worthy-but-flawed successor to ''The Last Airbender'', while just as many believe that any redeeming qualities the latter half of the show had doesn't make up for things such as the RomanticPlotTumor or that the writing was just inferior overall.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the sequel series to the much-beloved ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'', had a bit of a rocky start, with rushed production schedules leading to flaws that the original show didn't have to deal with. This led to a lot of fans of ''The Last Airbender'' jumping ship in the first two seasons, declaring ''Korra'' to be a pale imitation of their favorite show. After the fact, there seems to be less of this, as Korra [[GrowingTheBeard came into its own]] during season 3. Many fans warmed up to the series in retrospect, considering it a worthy-but-flawed successor equal to ''The Last Airbender'', while just as many believe that any redeeming qualities the latter half of the show had doesn't make up for things such as the RomanticPlotTumor or that the writing was just inferior overall.overall. At the same time, in contrast to the fans who believe it is equal to the original series and fans who think it is inferior, many fans find ''The Legend of Korra'' to have better writing, and believe it to to be a better series than the original.
19th Jun '17 5:17:00 AM M3
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** To elaborate a bit more on the point above. When taken into it's own from 2 to 3, there are elements of 3 that improved on 2; such as customized guns, removal of the respect system, an attempt to streamline the plot due to previous pacing issues, and a cutdown on number of times an activity has to be done as well as the dial down of frustration to complete the activity. However, they all come at a cost of losing something that made Saint's Row 2 great. For example, Streamlining the pacing helped make the game's plot move along quicker, but because of how it was done, messed up the gameplay pacing (as Yahtzee of ZeroPunctuation noted: "You're given a penthouse suite, helicopters and orbital missile strikes in the first few missions of the game. I won't appreciate flying from my jet if I haven't been forced to navigate in a shopping trolley for a while). For everything it improves on, it lost something. But the question then becomes what did you miss in Saint's Row 2 that wasn't in 3 and how important was it to your experience?
17th Jun '17 6:24:18 PM Silverstaff
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' became one within a single weekend of its release. While unanimously considered a step up from the prequels, the arguments are still raging over whether it's a great return to classic ''Franchise/Star Wars'' or if Disney just rehashed ''Film/ANewHope'' and not including enough original material to make it good. Add in the people who are already unhappy with the EU being made non-canon...

to:

** ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' became one within a single weekend of its release. While unanimously considered by some a step up from the prequels, the arguments are still raging over whether it's a great return to classic ''Franchise/Star Wars'' or if Disney just rehashed ''Film/ANewHope'' and not including enough original material to make it good. Add in the people who are already unhappy with the EU being made non-canon...
6th Jun '17 5:33:56 PM Psi001
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** ''Disney/BambiII'' is one of the most divisive Disney sequels, largely because while it is one of the most lavishly made of Disney Toon Studios' efforts, it is also an {{Interquel}} for [[ToughActToFollow one of Disney's first and most iconic films]]. Fans of the first film complain the Interquel lacks the same artistic direction and nuance, with over focus on dialogue and cliche family plots, while fans of the second film prefer the warmer story and broader CharacterDevelopment over the deliberate vagueness of the first film for natural perspective.
18th May '17 6:31:30 PM SomberCaelifera
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** For every ''DisneyToon Studios'' DirectToVideo sequel, there is a huge discussion on whether it's good, decent, mediocre or horrible (though few argue that any is ''better'' than the original).
** No one actively ''dislikes'' it, but there's some frictions about ''Disney/TheRescuersDownUnder''. Some think it is a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel with a more original story and better animation, which replaces the original's "dull" and "cheesy" moments with action and ''Fantasia''-style spectacle, Disney Renaissance oblige. On the other hand, a lot of fans of the first movie think the more lush, computer-assisted style of animation doesn't fit the original's endearing 'sketchy' style, and many dislike the introduction of FurryConfusion to the franchise (with Marahute the Eagle, who is realistically drawn even though all the animals in the first movie, birds included, were TalkingAnimals).
** ''WesternAnimation/AGoofyMovie''[='=]s sequel own DirectToVideo''WesternAnimation/AnExtremelyGoofyMovie''. Because [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome Roxanne was removed]], Max got AesopAmnesia, and there was an ExtremeSportExcusePlot, many people [[{{Sequelitis}} didn't like the movie at all]]. However, because the animation was really good, [[PluckyComicRelief Bobby]] became a BreakoutCharacter, Goofy got a {{Love Interest|s}} and PJ, TheWoobie, [[EarnYourHappyEnding earned his happy ending]] (which even some people who had less context were happy to see because it showed a [[FatBestFriend sympathetic fat character]] getting a girlfriend based on his personality), other people [[EvenBetterSequel thought it was amazing]] even if they [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel hated the first one]]. The audience's reaction spans "awesome but the first one sucked", "even better than the first one", "as good as the first one", "not as good as the first one but still awesome", "not as good as the first one in most ways but better in some", "okay", "not very good but with some redeeming qualities" and "completely horrible".

to:

** For every ''DisneyToon Studios'' Disney Toon Studios DirectToVideo sequel, there is a huge discussion on whether it's good, decent, mediocre or horrible (though few argue that any is ''better'' than the original).
** No one actively ''dislikes'' it, but there's some frictions about ''Disney/TheRescuersDownUnder''. Some think it is a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel with a more original story and better animation, which replaces the original's "dull" and "cheesy" moments with action and ''Fantasia''-style spectacle, Disney Renaissance oblige. On the other hand, a lot of fans of the first movie think the more lush, computer-assisted style of animation doesn't fit the original's endearing 'sketchy' style, and many dislike the introduction of FurryConfusion to the franchise (with Marahute the Eagle, who is realistically drawn even though all the animals in the first movie, birds included, were TalkingAnimals).
[[Main/TalkingAnimal talking animals]]).
** ''WesternAnimation/AGoofyMovie''[='=]s DirectToVideo sequel own DirectToVideo''WesternAnimation/AnExtremelyGoofyMovie''.''WesternAnimation/AnExtremelyGoofyMovie''. Because [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome Roxanne was removed]], Max got AesopAmnesia, and there was an ExtremeSportExcusePlot, many people [[{{Sequelitis}} didn't like the movie at all]]. However, because the animation was really good, [[PluckyComicRelief Bobby]] became a BreakoutCharacter, Goofy got a {{Love Interest|s}} and PJ, TheWoobie, [[EarnYourHappyEnding earned his happy ending]] (which even some people who had less context were happy to see because it showed a [[FatBestFriend sympathetic fat character]] getting a girlfriend based on his personality), other people [[EvenBetterSequel thought it was amazing]] even if they [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel hated the first one]]. The audience's reaction spans "awesome but the first one sucked", "even better than the first one", "as good as the first one", "not as good as the first one but still awesome", "not as good as the first one in most ways but better in some", "okay", "not very good but with some redeeming qualities" and "completely horrible".



* ''Film/BartokTheMagnificent'' is a loose prequel/spin-off to Creator/DonBluth's ''WesternAnimation/{{Anastasia}}''. Notably being the only one to have Bluth involved, returning as the director, and is often considered the best of the follow-ups to his films.

to:

* ''Film/BartokTheMagnificent'' ''WesternAnimation/BartokTheMagnificent'' is a loose prequel/spin-off to Creator/DonBluth's ''WesternAnimation/{{Anastasia}}''. Notably being the only one to have Bluth involved, returning as the director, and is often considered the best of the follow-ups to his films.
10th May '17 2:09:40 AM LucaEarlgrey
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** A downgrade for its messily-handled lore: The Law and Chaos alignments are effectively "straw" alignments in a series where debating over which side is better is a major point, and in fact going for either faction is treated as a "bad" ending. In the Bonds route, [[spoiler:Danu forcefully fixes the problem of her son Dagda trying to kill the protagonist by [[KillAndReplace killing her son and replacing him with a new one]] in a manner too close to AbusiveParent for comfort in a route about trying to achieve a peaceful resolution to the cosmic series-traditional ForeverWar.]]

to:

** A downgrade for its messily-handled lore: The Law and Chaos alignments are effectively "straw" alignments in a series where debating over which side is better is a major point, and in fact going for either faction is treated as a their respective endings are "bad" ending.early endings. In the Bonds route, [[spoiler:Danu forcefully fixes the problem of her son Dagda trying to kill the protagonist by [[KillAndReplace killing her son and replacing him with a new one]] in a manner too close to AbusiveParent for comfort in a route about trying to achieve a peaceful resolution to the cosmic series-traditional ForeverWar.]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 1186. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ContestedSequel