History Main / CartesianKarma

2nd Jul '16 7:54:08 AM lavendermintrose
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* Constantly in ''Anime/ValvraveTheLiberator''.
** Particularly with Haruto. As the pilot of Unit 1, he sometimes gets possessed by a sort of monster impulse that makes him attack his friends. What happens can range from ''biting'' someone and inadvertently body-jacking them, to, well, the incident that the series is infamous for towards the end of season 1. Notable/played with in that most of the retribution for these things comes from his own guilt and fear that he's a monster.
** This is also the case with L-elf, who was body-jacked by Haruto in the beginning - Haruto in his body shot L-elf's friend in the eye and betrayed L-elf's team. Since his teammates don't know about the body-jacking until the end, they blame L-elf for it and wonder what could have made such a loyal soldier turn traitor. He manages to use the situation to his advantage, helping the OrdinaryHighSchoolStudent [=JIORans=] form a decent enough military to defend their town, but you can see the sadness in his eyes throughout...
29th Jun '16 2:24:09 AM AgProv
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[[folder:Live Action TV]]
* This sort of thing appears to happen a lot in ''Series/StarTrek''. A character is temporarily possessed by a more powerful force or otherwose suborned against their will to perform actions contrary to their own interests or inclinations. But they then carry on in post afterwards with no sanctions once they're free of possession, or can demonstrate that they were not in control of themselves at the time. [[note]]This appears to be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card in the ST continuum.[[/note]] The only time this issue appears to have been addressed is when Captain Picard was assimilated into the Borg Collective and is used to co-ordinate their strategy against the Federation. ''StarTrek/DeepSpaceNine'' opens with a freed Picard ferrying Captain Sisko to his new command. Sisko is one of the very few survivors of the Borg attack that used Picard to plot and lead its strategy. Sisko's command, and his wife, were killed in that offensive. Therefore his attitude to Picard is one of very thinly disguised hostility, loathing and hatred. Picard understands this, realises this is part of his Cartesian Karma, and allows Sisko to express his deep hostility and bitter resentment.
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11th Jun '16 4:40:57 PM DVB
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** Granted, she was by no means a nice pony during her introductionary appearance and the fact that she did go to depths to find the artifact and explictly use it for revenge does provide some reason.
8th Jun '16 11:04:35 AM DoctorTItanX
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Unfortunately in failing that, they still managed to [[KickTheDog kick a few kittens]], and rob the local grocery market. And law enforcement isn't exactly ready to take 'I was brainwashed by a [[BigBad Super-villain]]/[[TheVirus mind-virus]]' as a valid legal alibi. Also anybody 'normal' seeing you in your altered state might be [[ItsALongStory equally hard to work out]], especially if it's not something you could [[TheMasquerade explain without telling too much]]. The consequences of one's actions simply don't vanish when the mentality causing them does, so even mind-controlled characters have to face some sort of retribution, like it or not. [[KarmaHoudiniWarranty Except when]] [[KarmaHoudini they don't.]]

What's more, who's to say you were just eating children and playing hopscotch during your brainwashed-existence, and won't have to face any serious danger or genetic experiments? Any damage sustained, bodily changes or physical alterations aren't going to go away just because you've come to your senses. Those are going to have to be faced as well. If the brain-washed you ate a few too many donuts in the [[SupervillainLair baddies hideout]], back-to-normal you is simply going to have to live with his/her sustained diabetes.

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Unfortunately Tragically in failing that, they still managed to [[KickTheDog kick a few kittens]], and rob the local grocery market. And law enforcement isn't exactly ready to take 'I was brainwashed by a [[BigBad Super-villain]]/[[TheVirus mind-virus]]' as a valid legal alibi. Also anybody 'normal' seeing you in your altered state might be [[ItsALongStory equally hard to work out]], especially if it's not something you could [[TheMasquerade explain without telling too much]]. The consequences of one's actions simply don't vanish when the mentality causing them does, so even mind-controlled characters have to face some sort of retribution, like it or not. [[KarmaHoudiniWarranty Except when]] [[KarmaHoudini they don't.]]

What's more, who's to say you were just eating children and playing hopscotch during your brainwashed-existence, and won't have to face any serious danger or genetic experiments? Any damage sustained, bodily changes or physical alterations aren't going to go away just because you've come to your senses. Those are going to have to be faced as well. If the brain-washed you your brainwashed self ate a few too many donuts in the [[SupervillainLair baddies hideout]], back-to-normal you is simply going to have to live with his/her sustained diabetes.



* Possibly subverted in [[Manga/HunterXHunter HxH]] when one of the side characters get's kidnapped by the ants, brainwashed and altered to be one of them. She's eventually comes to her senses, and as Killua points out, her entrusted one Gon is not one to judge, and it helps the Hunter organization itself isn't one to persecute her just because she's now a chimera ant.

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* Possibly subverted in [[Manga/HunterXHunter HxH]] when one of the side characters get's gets kidnapped by the ants, brainwashed and altered to be one of them. She's eventually comes to her senses, and as Killua points out, her entrusted one Gon is not one to judge, and it helps the Hunter organization itself isn't one to persecute her just because she's now a chimera ant.



** Also his teacher and role-model Kaito, who is made into a living rag doll for the ants to manipulate that Gon desperately wishes to bring back. The realization that [[spoiler:he can't do so, and Kaito truly is 'dead' is what pushes Gon into the transformation alluded to above.]]

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** Also Also, his teacher and role-model Kaito, who is made into a living rag doll for the ants to manipulate that Gon desperately wishes to bring back. The realization that [[spoiler:he can't do so, and Kaito truly is 'dead' is what pushes Gon into the transformation alluded to above.]]
6th Jun '16 5:24:18 AM captainpat
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* ''Anime/GaReiZero'':
** Yomi goes through this in , with her going berserk and only having Kagura to stop her. In the anime it ends tragically.
** The entire concept of Shissouseiki victims often plays into this.
* In the ''Manga/ChronoCrusade'' anime, Joshua after having Chrono's stolen horns removed is able to revert back to his old childish self. The problem is, he becomes essentially 'locked' in that state, perpetually having the mind of his 12 year old pre-horn self. He fairs much better in the manga though.

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* ''Anime/GaReiZero'':
** Yomi goes through this in , with her going berserk and only having Kagura to stop her. In the anime it ends tragically.
** The entire concept of Shissouseiki victims often plays into this.
* In the ''Manga/ChronoCrusade'' anime, Joshua after having Chrono's stolen horns removed is able to revert back to his old childish self. The problem is, he becomes essentially 'locked' in that state, perpetually having the mind of his 12 year old pre-horn self. He fairs much better in the manga though.



* In ''Manga/{{Psyren}}'', Tatsuo refuses to return to the past even after being freed from the mind-control induced on him. It's probably a factor that the artifact that was controlling him is still embedded into his body, he'll die if it runs out of energy, and it shuts down when exposed to sunlight.



* ''Anime/YuGiOhGX'': Snapping out of the Supreme King's control is only the start of Judai's troubles.



** Her beau ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} faces similar problems after he [[spoiler:took over the world and killed Charles Xavier]] while under the Phoenix's influence. People in-universe and out hold him responsible for that.

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** Her beau ComicBook/{{Cyclops}} faces similar problems being imprisoned after he [[spoiler:took over the world and killed Charles Xavier]] while under the Phoenix's influence. People in-universe and out hold him responsible for that.influence.



* This is Franchise/SpiderMan's problem after he gets his body back following the ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'' arc, in which Doctor Octopus controlled his body. Many of his prior relationships are strained, especially that with his former lover, ComicBook/BlackCat, who has made a FaceHeelTurn and doesn't care that it's Octavius in Peter's body when she was attacked.

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* This is Franchise/SpiderMan's problem Unfortunately for Franchise/{{SpiderMan}} after he gets his body back following the ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'' arc, in which Doctor Octopus controlled his body. Many body, many of his prior relationships are strained, especially that with his former lover, ComicBook/BlackCat, who has made a FaceHeelTurn and doesn't care that it's Octavius in Peter's body when she was attacked.
6th Jun '16 5:16:48 AM captainpat
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* In ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'', Sasuke's fall and betrayal of Konoha has continually been a plot point, with the eponymous character constantly hoping for his return. Obstructing this is not only the fact that he's now an internationally wanted criminal, but also had a central antagonist absorbed into his body at one point, and he had gone nearly blind. [[spoiler:He seems to be getting better, at least in the seeing department.]]
** [[spoiler:This was ultimately [[AvertedTrope averted]] as he ended up EasilyForgiven for all sins. [[BaseBreaker A lot of fans weren't impressed at all.]]]]
20th May '16 6:03:41 AM ArcaneAzmadi
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** [[spoiler:This was ultimately [[AvertedTrope averted]] as he ended up EasilyForgiven for all sins. [[BaseBreaker A lot of fans weren't impressed at all.]]]]
18th May '16 8:43:50 AM StFan
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'': Sure, ComicBook/BuckyBarnes was under mind-control from HYDRA for all of his villainous career as the Winter Soldier. That hardly means he's off the hook for decades of terrorism and assassinations, forcing him to stay in hiding from the authorities at the start of the movie. Despite his reassurance to Steve that he's no longer doing these kind of things, [[spoiler:it's easy for Zemo to put the blame on him for the bombing of the U.N. building with a cheap mask]]. Only Captain America (and his followers) believe he's innocent, and it's more for emotional than rational reasons. T'Challa doesn't accept the brainwashing argument as an excuse [[spoiler:for the death of his father]], and pursues Bucky as Black Panther to kill him. Neither does Tony Stark when he finally learns [[spoiler:the Winter Soldier is responsible for the murder of his parents. He goes ballistic, and none of Cap's words are enough to calm down Iron Man in his attempt to vaporize Bucky]].

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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'': Sure, ComicBook/BuckyBarnes Bucky was under mind-control from HYDRA for all of his villainous career as the Winter Soldier. That hardly means he's off the hook for decades of terrorism and assassinations, forcing him to stay in hiding from the authorities at the start of the movie. Despite his reassurance to Steve that he's no longer doing these kind of things, [[spoiler:it's easy for Zemo to put the cast blame on him for the bombing of the U.N. building with on Bucky just by wearing a cheap scarf and a prosthetic mask]]. Only Captain America (and his followers) believe he's innocent, and it's more for emotional than rational reasons. T'Challa doesn't accept the brainwashing argument as an excuse [[spoiler:for the death of his father]], and pursues Bucky as Black Panther to kill him. Neither does Tony Stark when he finally learns [[spoiler:the Winter Soldier is responsible for the murder of his parents. He goes ballistic, and none of Cap's words are enough to calm down Iron Man in his attempt to vaporize Bucky]].
14th May '16 5:20:41 AM StFan
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* This is Franchise/{{Spiderman}}'s problem after he gets his body back following the ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderman'' arc, in which Doctor Octopus controlled his body. Many of his prior relationships are strained, especially that with his former lover, Comicbook/BlackCat, who has made a FaceHeelTurn and doesn't care that it Octavius in Peter's body when she was attacked.

to:

* This is Franchise/{{Spiderman}}'s Franchise/SpiderMan's problem after he gets his body back following the ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderman'' ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'' arc, in which Doctor Octopus controlled his body. Many of his prior relationships are strained, especially that with his former lover, Comicbook/BlackCat, ComicBook/BlackCat, who has made a FaceHeelTurn and doesn't care that it it's Octavius in Peter's body when she was attacked.



* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'': Sure, ComicBook/BuckyBarnes was under mind-control from HYDRA for all of his villainous career. That hardly means he's off the hook for decades of terrorism and assassinations, forcing him to stay in hiding from the authorities at the start of the movie. And despite his reassurance to Steve that he's no longer doing these kind of things, [[spoiler:it's easy for Zemo to put the blame on him for the bombing of the U.N. building with a cheap mask]]. Only Captain America (and his followers) believe he's innocent, and it's more for emotional than rational reasons. T'Challa doesn't accept the brainwashing argument as an excuse [[spoiler:for the death of his father]], and pursues Bucky as Black Panther to kill him. Neither does Tony Stark when he finally learns [[spoiler:the Winter Soldier is responsible for the murder of his parents. He goes ballistic, and none of Cap's words are enough to calm down Iron Man in his attempt to vaporize Bucky]].

to:

* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'': Sure, ComicBook/BuckyBarnes was under mind-control from HYDRA for all of his villainous career.career as the Winter Soldier. That hardly means he's off the hook for decades of terrorism and assassinations, forcing him to stay in hiding from the authorities at the start of the movie. And despite Despite his reassurance to Steve that he's no longer doing these kind of things, [[spoiler:it's easy for Zemo to put the blame on him for the bombing of the U.N. building with a cheap mask]]. Only Captain America (and his followers) believe he's innocent, and it's more for emotional than rational reasons. T'Challa doesn't accept the brainwashing argument as an excuse [[spoiler:for the death of his father]], and pursues Bucky as Black Panther to kill him. Neither does Tony Stark when he finally learns [[spoiler:the Winter Soldier is responsible for the murder of his parents. He goes ballistic, and none of Cap's words are enough to calm down Iron Man in his attempt to vaporize Bucky]].
9th May '16 2:47:22 PM KingZeal
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* This is Franchise/{{Spiderman}}'s problem after he gets his body back following the ''Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderman'' arc, in which Doctor Octopus controlled his body. Many of his prior relationships are strained, especially that with his former lover, Comicbook/BlackCat, who has made a FaceHeelTurn and doesn't care that it Octavius in Peter's body when she was attacked.
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