History Main / BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil

20th Nov '16 8:28:05 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The Iron Ring, a slave-trading secret society from the {{Mystara}} setting, acquires its Mooks via this trope, torturing people they've taken captive until they're reduced to mindless berserkers. Such "Hounds" are virtually incapable of coherent thought, retaining just enough wits to cringe before their captors' whips, that herd them into battle.

to:

** The Iron Ring, a slave-trading secret society from the {{Mystara}} ''TabletopGame/{{Mystara}}'' setting, acquires its Mooks via this trope, torturing people they've taken captive until they're reduced to mindless berserkers. Such "Hounds" are virtually incapable of coherent thought, retaining just enough wits to cringe before their captors' whips, that herd them into battle.
26th Oct '16 12:36:24 PM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Inverted in ''ASongOfIceAndFire'' with [[spoiler:Theon Greyjoy. Previously a definite SmugSnake, the brutal torture he receives at the hands of the series' resident BastardBastard leaves him frail both physically and mentally and, while not a good person, leagues away from the outright villain he'd been before. And it's only after all this that he commits his first truly selfless act by saving Jeyne Poole.]]

to:

* Inverted in ''ASongOfIceAndFire'' ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' with [[spoiler:Theon Greyjoy. Previously a definite SmugSnake, the brutal torture he receives at the hands of the series' resident BastardBastard leaves him frail both physically and mentally and, while not a good person, leagues away from the outright villain he'd been before. And it's only after all this that he commits his first truly selfless act by saving Jeyne Poole.]]
30th Sep '16 2:49:33 AM caffeinedelusions
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

[[noreallife]]



[[folder:Real Life]]
* This trope might be a DeadHorseTrope by now. If torture alone made one evil, then survivors of Nazi death camps would be. So far no data has surfaced about the frequency of evil among survivors.
* It's a common belief that murderers, torturers, rapists, and other violent criminals get that way because they were victimized as children. This conventional wisdom is so widespread that it's considered self-evidently true by almost all laymen. But a study of criminals in the United States shows that convicted felons aren't more likely to have come from an abusive family than the average person. If anything, it's ''victims'' who are more likely to have an earlier background of abuse, especially victims of molestation who are often specifically targeted because they have abusive or neglectful parents. Victims of domestic abuse are three times more likely to have been abused as children than their abusers. Even murder victims are more likely to have been abused as children than murderers.
** A [[http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full study published in the 2001 issue of The British Journal of Psychiatry]] showed that 35% of sexual offenders had a history of sexual abuse, a high percentage by female perpetrators. Only 2% of female sexual abuse victims became sexual offenders.
*** Unfortunately, society has isolated male victims of rape and child abuse for this reason. One insane billboard released by a rape prevention center showed a bruised little boy in tears with the caption "Future sex offender?", and an urge to prevent the chain of abuse.
** Research into this supposed phenomenon was done which showed that those who had been abused were not significantly more likely to go on to abuse others. This was following a book of memoirs by a retired police chief in which he claimed that nearly all of the men he had arrested for homosexual acts (when homosexuality was still illegal) had stated that they had been sexually abused during childhood and this had turned them into homosexuals. The book's claims were taken as being true and the Abused Becomes the Abuser myth was taken from that. After the research which showed no connection between being abused and committing abuse, followup investigations discovered that the homosexual men had been lying in order to get more sympathetic treatment at their trials. This lie, along with Confirmation Bias, has caused this myth to continue to be believed by many.
* It's more complicated than you think, as human brains are. The ThemeParkVersion of this trope, that ''torture makes you immediately evil'', is certainly a myth (we can say that trying to reduce human behaviour into a ThemeParkVersion, just like what Freud did, is likely to lead to mythical status). However, the FreudianExcuse still is a recognized pattern in psychology. There are, after all, many different kinds of torture and brainwashing, from Operant Conditioning to downright MindRape. Children might also find the explanation "NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished, therefore evil is necessary for survival" to be rational choice with reinforcements. Social Learning Theory proposes that children efficiently learn by imitation through [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron mirror neurons]] (e.g. if they observe somebody else doing something, it's as if they are doing the act themselves), and therefore, if a child observes being abused, then he is likely to learn how to abuse.
* Ayman al-Zawahiri, the new head of Al-Qaeda, was tortured by the Egyptian government in his youth. Being tortured convinced al-Zawahiri that more violent measures would be needed to change the Middle Eastern status quo.
* The possibility of this trope seems to keep popping up in the debate over whether or not to close Guantanamo Bay. The argument usually goes that if we did rely on shoddy evidence from tribal chieftains, picked up supposed terrorists, held them as detainees for years and subjected them to "enhanced interrogation techniques" while they were innocent... "Well, if they didn't hate us ''before''..."
** Which is more a case of TheDogBitesBack than this trope, though...
* Aileen Wournos - the infamous homicidal prostitute - was tortured and abused by her grandparents. Her grandfather actually got her pregnant at the age of fourteen, and Aileen implied that her mother abused her as a toddler too and that violence was all she ever knew.
[[/folder]]

to:

[[folder:Real Life]]
* This trope might be a DeadHorseTrope by now. If torture alone made one evil, then survivors of Nazi death camps would be. So far no data has surfaced about the frequency of evil among survivors.
* It's a common belief that murderers, torturers, rapists, and other violent criminals get that way because they were victimized as children. This conventional wisdom is so widespread that it's considered self-evidently true by almost all laymen. But a study of criminals in the United States shows that convicted felons aren't more likely to have come from an abusive family than the average person. If anything, it's ''victims'' who are more likely to have an earlier background of abuse, especially victims of molestation who are often specifically targeted because they have abusive or neglectful parents. Victims of domestic abuse are three times more likely to have been abused as children than their abusers. Even murder victims are more likely to have been abused as children than murderers.
** A [[http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full study published in the 2001 issue of The British Journal of Psychiatry]] showed that 35% of sexual offenders had a history of sexual abuse, a high percentage by female perpetrators. Only 2% of female sexual abuse victims became sexual offenders.
*** Unfortunately, society has isolated male victims of rape and child abuse for this reason. One insane billboard released by a rape prevention center showed a bruised little boy in tears with the caption "Future sex offender?", and an urge to prevent the chain of abuse.
** Research into this supposed phenomenon was done which showed that those who had been abused were not significantly more likely to go on to abuse others. This was following a book of memoirs by a retired police chief in which he claimed that nearly all of the men he had arrested for homosexual acts (when homosexuality was still illegal) had stated that they had been sexually abused during childhood and this had turned them into homosexuals. The book's claims were taken as being true and the Abused Becomes the Abuser myth was taken from that. After the research which showed no connection between being abused and committing abuse, followup investigations discovered that the homosexual men had been lying in order to get more sympathetic treatment at their trials. This lie, along with Confirmation Bias, has caused this myth to continue to be believed by many.
* It's more complicated than you think, as human brains are. The ThemeParkVersion of this trope, that ''torture makes you immediately evil'', is certainly a myth (we can say that trying to reduce human behaviour into a ThemeParkVersion, just like what Freud did, is likely to lead to mythical status). However, the FreudianExcuse still is a recognized pattern in psychology. There are, after all, many different kinds of torture and brainwashing, from Operant Conditioning to downright MindRape. Children might also find the explanation "NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished, therefore evil is necessary for survival" to be rational choice with reinforcements. Social Learning Theory proposes that children efficiently learn by imitation through [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron mirror neurons]] (e.g. if they observe somebody else doing something, it's as if they are doing the act themselves), and therefore, if a child observes being abused, then he is likely to learn how to abuse.
* Ayman al-Zawahiri, the new head of Al-Qaeda, was tortured by the Egyptian government in his youth. Being tortured convinced al-Zawahiri that more violent measures would be needed to change the Middle Eastern status quo.
* The possibility of this trope seems to keep popping up in the debate over whether or not to close Guantanamo Bay. The argument usually goes that if we did rely on shoddy evidence from tribal chieftains, picked up supposed terrorists, held them as detainees for years and subjected them to "enhanced interrogation techniques" while they were innocent... "Well, if they didn't hate us ''before''..."
** Which is more a case of TheDogBitesBack than this trope, though...
* Aileen Wournos - the infamous homicidal prostitute - was tortured and abused by her grandparents. Her grandfather actually got her pregnant at the age of fourteen, and Aileen implied that her mother abused her as a toddler too and that violence was all she ever knew.
[[/folder]]
30th Sep '16 2:33:07 AM caffeinedelusions
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[noreallife]]

to:

[[noreallife]]


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Real Life]]
* This trope might be a DeadHorseTrope by now. If torture alone made one evil, then survivors of Nazi death camps would be. So far no data has surfaced about the frequency of evil among survivors.
* It's a common belief that murderers, torturers, rapists, and other violent criminals get that way because they were victimized as children. This conventional wisdom is so widespread that it's considered self-evidently true by almost all laymen. But a study of criminals in the United States shows that convicted felons aren't more likely to have come from an abusive family than the average person. If anything, it's ''victims'' who are more likely to have an earlier background of abuse, especially victims of molestation who are often specifically targeted because they have abusive or neglectful parents. Victims of domestic abuse are three times more likely to have been abused as children than their abusers. Even murder victims are more likely to have been abused as children than murderers.
** A [[http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full study published in the 2001 issue of The British Journal of Psychiatry]] showed that 35% of sexual offenders had a history of sexual abuse, a high percentage by female perpetrators. Only 2% of female sexual abuse victims became sexual offenders.
*** Unfortunately, society has isolated male victims of rape and child abuse for this reason. One insane billboard released by a rape prevention center showed a bruised little boy in tears with the caption "Future sex offender?", and an urge to prevent the chain of abuse.
** Research into this supposed phenomenon was done which showed that those who had been abused were not significantly more likely to go on to abuse others. This was following a book of memoirs by a retired police chief in which he claimed that nearly all of the men he had arrested for homosexual acts (when homosexuality was still illegal) had stated that they had been sexually abused during childhood and this had turned them into homosexuals. The book's claims were taken as being true and the Abused Becomes the Abuser myth was taken from that. After the research which showed no connection between being abused and committing abuse, followup investigations discovered that the homosexual men had been lying in order to get more sympathetic treatment at their trials. This lie, along with Confirmation Bias, has caused this myth to continue to be believed by many.
* It's more complicated than you think, as human brains are. The ThemeParkVersion of this trope, that ''torture makes you immediately evil'', is certainly a myth (we can say that trying to reduce human behaviour into a ThemeParkVersion, just like what Freud did, is likely to lead to mythical status). However, the FreudianExcuse still is a recognized pattern in psychology. There are, after all, many different kinds of torture and brainwashing, from Operant Conditioning to downright MindRape. Children might also find the explanation "NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished, therefore evil is necessary for survival" to be rational choice with reinforcements. Social Learning Theory proposes that children efficiently learn by imitation through [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron mirror neurons]] (e.g. if they observe somebody else doing something, it's as if they are doing the act themselves), and therefore, if a child observes being abused, then he is likely to learn how to abuse.
* Ayman al-Zawahiri, the new head of Al-Qaeda, was tortured by the Egyptian government in his youth. Being tortured convinced al-Zawahiri that more violent measures would be needed to change the Middle Eastern status quo.
* The possibility of this trope seems to keep popping up in the debate over whether or not to close Guantanamo Bay. The argument usually goes that if we did rely on shoddy evidence from tribal chieftains, picked up supposed terrorists, held them as detainees for years and subjected them to "enhanced interrogation techniques" while they were innocent... "Well, if they didn't hate us ''before''..."
** Which is more a case of TheDogBitesBack than this trope, though...
* Aileen Wournos - the infamous homicidal prostitute - was tortured and abused by her grandparents. Her grandfather actually got her pregnant at the age of fourteen, and Aileen implied that her mother abused her as a toddler too and that violence was all she ever knew.
[[/folder]]
19th Sep '16 8:36:34 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [=FitzChivalry=] toys with this in the third trilogy of the RealmOfTheElderlings. He notes that he was once tortured to death ([[NormallyIWouldBeDeadNow although it didn't stick]]), and it left him with an occasional sadistic streak; his fight-or-flight response got ramped up, and although [[BewareTheNiceOnes he always wants to run...]]

to:

* [=FitzChivalry=] toys with this in the third trilogy of the RealmOfTheElderlings.''Literature/RealmOfTheElderlings''. He notes that he was once tortured to death ([[NormallyIWouldBeDeadNow although it didn't stick]]), and it left him with an occasional sadistic streak; his fight-or-flight response got ramped up, and although [[BewareTheNiceOnes he always wants to run...]]
21st Aug '16 4:51:30 PM Malady
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''FanFic/DungeonKeeperAmi'': Explains why torture turns prisoners to the torturer's side in Dungeon Keeper setting by having the dungeon hearts be a minor MindControlDevice with Keeper minions.
7th Aug '16 2:53:49 PM eroock
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* A possible explanation for Ajax and Angel in ''Film/{{Deadpool 2016}}'', choosing to work for the organization that tortured them into mutation.
11th Jul '16 2:06:53 AM WillBGood
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* This is pretty much word-for-word the backstory for [[ColdSniper Widowmaker]] in [[VideoGame/Overwatch.]] She was kidnapped by Talon agents and tortured/brainwashed until they literally "broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent."

to:

* This is pretty much word-for-word the backstory for [[ColdSniper Widowmaker]] in [[VideoGame/Overwatch.]] ''VideoGame/{{Overwatch}}''. She was kidnapped by Talon agents and tortured/brainwashed until they literally "broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent."
10th Jul '16 12:37:23 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Done successfully to IncorruptiblePurePureness in ''BrokenSaints''. Justified in that said character is an [[TheEmpath empath]], and the torture was simply necessary to turn [[spoiler:her]] into a conduit for negative emotion. Not that that makes [[EyeScream any of the torture]] less disturbing.

to:

* Done successfully to IncorruptiblePurePureness in ''BrokenSaints''.''WebAnimation/BrokenSaints''. Justified in that said character is an [[TheEmpath empath]], and the torture was simply necessary to turn [[spoiler:her]] into a conduit for negative emotion. Not that that makes [[EyeScream any of the torture]] less disturbing.
21st Jun '16 7:01:51 AM TheMasterPanda
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* This is pretty much word-for-word the backstory for Widowmaker in Overwatch. She was kidnapped by Talon agents and tortured/brainwashed until they literally "broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent."

to:

* This is pretty much word-for-word the backstory for Widowmaker [[ColdSniper Widowmaker]] in Overwatch. [[VideoGame/Overwatch.]] She was kidnapped by Talon agents and tortured/brainwashed until they literally "broke her will, suppressed her personality, and reprogrammed her as a sleeper agent."
This list shows the last 10 events of 430. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil