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** Loghain himself is universally praised as a military tactical genius, yet what few military strategies he shows in-game are elementary at best (like the "Hammer and Anvil" tactic at Ostagar), incompetent at worst. On the latter, he withdrew all his troops from the southern border after ([[UnreliableNarrator he claims]]) he realized the darkspawn horde was too huge and organized for him to defeat even with the King's army and the Grey Wardens, yet immediately afterwards dismisses that same massive horde as "not a true threat," and spends ''months'' allowing said horde to pour into the unprotected countryside while he instead instigates a civil war with the nobles, and then gets locked into a ''months-long stalemate.'' So much for being a tactical genius. Reading ''Literature/TheStolenThrone'' does give [[AllThereInTheManual a little more insight]] into how he gained this reputation.

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** Loghain himself is universally praised as a military tactical genius, yet what few military strategies he shows in-game are elementary at best (like the "Hammer and Anvil" tactic at Ostagar), and incompetent at worst. On the latter, he withdrew all his troops from the southern border after ([[UnreliableNarrator he claims]]) he realized the darkspawn horde was too huge and organized for him to defeat even with the King's army and the Grey Wardens, yet immediately afterwards dismisses that same massive horde as "not a true threat," and spends ''months'' allowing said horde to pour into the unprotected countryside while he instead instigates a civil war with the nobles, and then gets locked into a ''months-long stalemate.'' So much for being a tactical genius. Reading ''Literature/TheStolenThrone'' does give [[AllThereInTheManual a little more insight]] into how he gained this reputation.



** The Antivan Crows are allegedly the deadliest assassins in Thedas - yet when Zevran, a single elf, rebels and starts a war against them, they fare very badly. In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'', Hawke has no difficulty killing them either and in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'', Dorian can tell an Assassin Inquisitor they're not all that good by Tevinter's standards.

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** The Antivan Crows are allegedly the deadliest assassins in Thedas - yet when Zevran, a single elf, rebels and starts a war against them, they fare very badly. In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'', Hawke has no difficulty killing them either and in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'', Dorian can tell an Assassin Inquisitor they're not all that good by Tevinter's standards. In fact, it's outright stated in a codex entry about Queen Asha of Antiva that the Crows being the reason other countires won't attack them is a flat-out lie spread by the Crows themselves.
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* ''VideoGame/KarateBlazers'', a rather generic arcade BeatEmUp, is pretty bad when it comes to this. For instance, one of your four playable characters is Glen, the "Invincible" Wrestler, a ScaryBlackMan who... have roughly the same amount of health as any other player. There's also a "ninja" character named Akira, who wears a regular purple outfit that doesn't resemble a ninja, to say the list. Nor does he use ninjutsu or ninja-themed attacks, only regular punches and kicks.
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More cruft removal


** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are terrible, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized.

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** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together.''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet''. Three of her Pokemon are terrible, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized.
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Speaking of Word Cruft...


** Speaking of which, Mipha also suffers from this. She's described as having been without equal when it came to weilding a trident, yet all of the flashbacks featuring her instead focus on her healing ability, her crush on Link, or her nurturing side towards Sidon. This especially stands out in the "The Champions' Ballad" DCL, which gave the other three Champions scenes to show off their combat skill, yet she's just shown swimming up a waterfall. Fortunately, ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriorsAgeOfCalamity'' helps to rectify this thanks to her being a playable character who can mow down armies just as easy as everyone else. [[spoiler:[[FutureBadass And so can Sidon]].]]

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** Speaking of which, Mipha also suffers from this. She's is described as having been without equal when it came to weilding a trident, yet all of the flashbacks featuring her instead focus on her healing ability, her crush on Link, or her nurturing side towards Sidon. This especially stands out in the "The Champions' Ballad" DCL, which gave the other three Champions scenes to show off their combat skill, yet she's just shown swimming up a waterfall. Fortunately, ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriorsAgeOfCalamity'' helps to rectify this thanks to her being a playable character who can mow down armies just as easy as everyone else. [[spoiler:[[FutureBadass And so can Sidon]].]]
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** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are terrible, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized..

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** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are terrible, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized..Terastallized.
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** Similarly, Blue in the first generation games is supposed to be an incredibly skilled trainer, but his team's setup by the time he's the Champion is pretty awful. His Rhydon has two moves that do the exact same thing and no Rock or Ground moves, his Alakazam has Psybeam and Psychic even though the former is just a weaker version of the latter, his Charizard has Rage, one of the worst moves in the game, his Gyarados has kept Dragon Rage long after when it would be useful, his Arcanine is still using Ember, and his Exeggutor has ''three moves.'' He also has Pidgeot, which is a pretty bad Pokemon even by Gen I standards, and is wholly outclassed by two completely different Pokemon found in Kanto with identical typing. The remakes mostly fixed this, and by the time of ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', he's an [[ThatOneBoss actual threat]].
** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are trash, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon for some reason as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast for whatever reason despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized..
** N is immediately labeled as a MotorMouth, and though [[PaintingTheMedium his text speed is always faster than your text speed settings]], he seems to speak normally compared to everyone else and uses ellipses often.

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** Similarly, Blue in the first generation games is supposed to be an incredibly skilled trainer, but his team's setup by the time he's the Champion is pretty awful. awful in Red/Green/Blue. His Rhydon has two moves that do the exact same thing and no Rock or Ground moves, his Alakazam has Psybeam and Psychic even (even though the former is mostly just a weaker version of the latter, outside of its secondary effect to cause confusion), his Charizard has Rage, one Rage (one of the worst moves in the game, game), his Gyarados has kept Dragon Rage long after when it would be useful, his Arcanine is still using Ember, and his Exeggutor only has ''three moves.'' He also has Pidgeot, which is a pretty bad Pokemon even by Gen I standards, and is wholly outclassed by two completely different Pokemon found in Kanto with identical typing. The remakes mostly fixed this, and by the time of ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', he's an [[ThatOneBoss actual threat]].
** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are trash, terrible, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon for some reason as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast for whatever reason despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized..
** N is immediately labeled as a MotorMouth, and though [[PaintingTheMedium his text speed is always faster than your text speed settings]], he seems to speak normally compared to everyone else his text is normal in terms of spacing and he uses ellipses often.often, which comes across as strange for a person known for speaking quickly.

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There actually are stated (and seen) cases of this in the anime (such as Grookey intentionally breaking TR's Poké Ball and Snivy/Froakie having been stated to have left their previous trainers at some point), so this isn't completely accurate. This entire thing also ranges on YMMV territory (in fact, this is basically the entry of Strawman Has A Point on BW's YMMV page) and doesn't really seem to be about an Informed Ability anyway.


** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are trash, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon for some reason as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast for whatever reason despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized.
** One of the biggest criticisms of ''Black and White'' is that the good guys don't really have a solid rebuttal for Team Plasma's insistence that kidnapping wild animals and making them fight each other to the point of unconsciousness is morally reprehensible. At one point, Bianca states that if Pokemon didn't like the way trainers were treating them, they would just leave. Not only are there no examples of Pokemon leaving their trainers of their own volition in the entire series, this claim is directly contradicted by Gen II's Silver, who is characterized as being exceedingly cruel to his Pokemon. The other characters don't dispute this claim when she makes it either, so it seems to be a ham-fisted attempt by the writers to justify the characters seeing Team Plasma as chasing windmills.

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** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are trash, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon for some reason as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast for whatever reason despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized.
** One of the biggest criticisms of ''Black and White'' is that the good guys don't really have a solid rebuttal for Team Plasma's insistence that kidnapping wild animals and making them fight each other to the point of unconsciousness is morally reprehensible. At one point, Bianca states that if Pokemon didn't like the way trainers were treating them, they would just leave. Not only are there no examples of Pokemon leaving their trainers of their own volition in the entire series, this claim is directly contradicted by Gen II's Silver, who is characterized as being exceedingly cruel to his Pokemon. The other characters don't dispute this claim when she makes it either, so it seems to be a ham-fisted attempt by the writers to justify the characters seeing Team Plasma as chasing windmills.
Terastallized..

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Update to some of the entries


** In the ''Lonesome Road'' DLC for ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'', according to Ulysses, the mutated creatures called the Tunnelers are perfectly capable of overwhelming ''deathclaws'' and are poised to be a massive threat to the Mojave and whoever wins the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. First-hand experience with them reveals a significantly lesser threat than hyped up: they can be taken out by a few headshots like almost everything else in the wasteland, and in a combination case of GameplayAndStorySegregation, an adult Deathclaw is perfectly capable of utterly massacring Tunnelers individually (though admittedly it tends to go in their favor when a ZergRush has big enough numbers).



** In the ''Nuka-World'' DLC, right hand bad guy Porter Gage states that whenever the going gets tough, he gets out to live another day, no matter how often he's been betrayed. However, if you betray the raiders and kill them, Porter will stick around in a suicidal charge to kill you, even though it's clear he could never win.

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** In the ''Nuka-World'' DLC, right hand right-hand bad guy Porter Gage states that whenever the going gets tough, he gets out to live another day, no matter how often he's been betrayed. However, if you betray the raiders and kill them, Porter will stick around in a suicidal charge to kill you, even though it's clear he could never win.

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** One of the biggest criticisms of ''Black and White'' is that the good guys don't really have a solid rebuttal for Team Plasma's insistence that kidnapping wild animals and making them fight each other to the point of unconsciousness is morally reprehensible. At one point, Bianca states that if Pokemon didn't like the way trainers were treating them, they would just leave. Not only are there no examples of Pokemon leaving their trainers of their own volition in the entire series, this claim is directly contradicted by Gen II's Silver, who is characterized as being exceedingly cruel to his Pokemon. The other characters don't dispute this claim when she makes it either, so it seems to be a ham-fisted attempt by the writers to justify the characters seeing Team Plasma as chasing windmills.
** Similarly, Blue in the first generation games is supposed to be an incredibly skilled trainer, but his team's setup by the time he's the Champion is pretty awful. His Rhydon has two moves that do the exact same thing and no Rock or Ground moves, his Alakazam has Psybeam and Psychic even though the former is just a weaker version of the latter, his Charizard has Rage, one of the worst moves in the game, his Gyarados has kept Dragon Rage long after when it would be useful, his Arcanine is still using Ember, and his Exeggutor has ''three moves.'' The remakes mostly fixed this, and by the time of ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', he's an [[ThatOneBoss actual threat]].

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** Similarly, Blue in the first generation games is supposed to be an incredibly skilled trainer, but his team's setup by the time he's the Champion is pretty awful. His Rhydon has two moves that do the exact same thing and no Rock or Ground moves, his Alakazam has Psybeam and Psychic even though the former is just a weaker version of the latter, his Charizard has Rage, one of the worst moves in the game, his Gyarados has kept Dragon Rage long after when it would be useful, his Arcanine is still using Ember, and his Exeggutor has ''three moves.'' He also has Pidgeot, which is a pretty bad Pokemon even by Gen I standards, and is wholly outclassed by two completely different Pokemon found in Kanto with identical typing. The remakes mostly fixed this, and by the time of ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', he's an [[ThatOneBoss actual threat]].
** Speaking of champions of purportedly prodigious skill with terrible teams Geeta from ''VideoGame/PokemonScarletAndViolet'' makes Blue's team look competently put together. Three of her Pokemon are trash, and of the three that are good one is completely wasted by having ability that lets it lay down Toxic Spikes without having to do anything and being her ''last'' Pokemon. She also has two Psychic-type Pokemon for some reason as well as her team having crippling weaknesses to Fire and Bug as well as being generally ill-equipped to deal with Ghost and Dark types. Her ace also has Tera Blast for whatever reason despite being a Rock Type that Terastallizes into a Rock Type, which raises the question of why she just doesn't a Rock move to begin with since Tera Blast is primarily meant for Pokemon who are using a Tera type different from their regular type and so might not have good STAB moves while Terastallized.
** One of the biggest criticisms of ''Black and White'' is that the good guys don't really have a solid rebuttal for Team Plasma's insistence that kidnapping wild animals and making them fight each other to the point of unconsciousness is morally reprehensible. At one point, Bianca states that if Pokemon didn't like the way trainers were treating them, they would just leave. Not only are there no examples of Pokemon leaving their trainers of their own volition in the entire series, this claim is directly contradicted by Gen II's Silver, who is characterized as being exceedingly cruel to his Pokemon. The other characters don't dispute this claim when she makes it either, so it seems to be a ham-fisted attempt by the writers to justify the characters seeing Team Plasma as chasing windmills. \n** Similarly, Blue in the first generation games is supposed to be an incredibly skilled trainer, but his team's setup by the time he's the Champion is pretty awful. His Rhydon has two moves that do the exact same thing and no Rock or Ground moves, his Alakazam has Psybeam and Psychic even though the former is just a weaker version of the latter, his Charizard has Rage, one of the worst moves in the game, his Gyarados has kept Dragon Rage long after when it would be useful, his Arcanine is still using Ember, and his Exeggutor has ''three moves.'' The remakes mostly fixed this, and by the time of ''[[VideoGame/PokemonGoldAndSilver HeartGold/SoulSilver]]'', he's an [[ThatOneBoss actual threat]].
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** One of the biggest criticisms of ''Black and White'' is that the good guys don't really have a solid rebuttal for Team Plasma's insistence that kidnapping wild animals and making them fight each other to the point of unconsciousness is morally reprehensible. At one point, Bianca states that if Pokemon didn't like the way trainers were treating them, they would just leave. Not only are there no examples of Pokemon leaving their trainers of their own volition in the entire series, this claim is directly contradicted by Gen II's Silver, who is characterized as being exceedingly cruel to his Pokemon. The other characters don't dispute this claim when she makes it either, so it seems to be a ham-fisted attempt by the writers to justify the characters seeing Team Plasma as chasing windmills.

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** Pidgeot is noted in no less than five Pokedex entries to be capable of flight at Mach 2. You'd think this would make Pidgeot one of the fastest Pokemon ever, but until Gen VI, its base Speed was 91, which is more or less just above average - in fact, it's the second slowest fully-evolved regional bird, outstripped by Swellow, Staraptor, Dodrio, Unfezant, and plenty of others. Gen VI eventually took pity on the thing and gave it a speed boost to 101 (which is actually respectable), and a Mega Evolution that boosted it further to something that actually ''would'' approximate Mach 2.

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** Pidgeot is noted in no less than five Pokedex entries to be capable of flight at Mach 2. You'd think this would make Pidgeot one of the fastest Pokemon ever, but until Gen VI, its base Speed was 91, which is more or less just above average - in fact, it's pretty slow by the second slowest standards of fully-evolved regional bird, birds, outstripped by Fearow, Swellow, Staraptor, Dodrio, Unfezant, and plenty of others. Gen VI eventually took pity on the thing and gave it a speed boost to 101 (which is actually respectable), and a Mega Evolution that boosted it further to something that actually ''would'' approximate Mach 2.


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** Psyduck's defining trait in all its appearances, and its Pokédex entries, is its PsychicPowers, with most conveying it as an UnskilledButStrong sort that releases powerful and mysterious but uncontrolled effects when its headache is paining it. You'd expect from this that it be some kind of incredibly strong Psychic-type, but it's actually a pure Water-type that can incidentally learn a handful of Psychic-type moves (and up until the fourth generation, the only one that did damage was very weak). Even its abilities are related primarily to weather mechanics rather than psychic abilities.
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* Inklings in ''VideoGame/{{Splatoon}}'' are allegedly boneless, as reaffirmed in various dialogues throughout the games and a Secret Scroll in the first, but they have visible elbows, wrists, knuckles, and knees instead of RubberHoseLimbs and generally look ([[LittleBitBeastly sort]] [[MorphicResonance of]]) and move around like human beings instead of flopping all over the place. They even show collarbones when wearing low-necked outfits, which obviously have no business anywhere in a boneless creature. Non-anthropomorphic squids don't have bones, but since they're underwater most of the time, they don't need them.

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* Inklings in ''VideoGame/{{Splatoon}}'' ''Franchise/{{Splatoon}}'' are allegedly boneless, as reaffirmed in various dialogues throughout the games and a Secret Scroll in the first, first one, but they have visible elbows, wrists, knuckles, and knees instead of RubberHoseLimbs and generally look ([[LittleBitBeastly sort]] [[MorphicResonance of]]) and move around like human beings instead of flopping all over the place. They even show collarbones when wearing low-necked outfits, which obviously have no business anywhere in a boneless creature. Non-anthropomorphic squids don't have bones, but since they're underwater most of the time, they don't need them.
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this fits into Informed Flaw


** Sora actually has an informed ''weakness'' in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII''. Sora got hit with the BagOfSpilling at the end of ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsDreamDropDistance'' and much of the game is spent traveling through various Disney Worlds seeking to regain his lost powers in preparation for the final battle. However, not only does Sora not ''feel'' weaker, his handling in combat being more fluid than ever, he's defeating enemies which in the first game were considered [[SuperBoss super bosses]] in the ''tutorial''.

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* In ''VideoGame/DeadOrAlive'':
** [[MinorMajorCharacter Hayate]] is supposed to be [[VideoGame/NinjaGaiden Ryu Hayabusa's]] equal. But if you look at their performances throughout the series, it sure doesn't seem that way.
** Ryu [[OneManArmy lays waste to the forces of darkness]] on an almost regular basis, whereas Hayate hasn't so much as won a single tournament. Even his sisters have more accomplishments under their belts than he does. The most he's done, is take out a blimp during a cutscene and mow dow a small group of {{mook}}s.

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* In ''VideoGame/DeadOrAlive'':
**
''VideoGame/DeadOrAlive'': [[MinorMajorCharacter Hayate]] is supposed to be [[VideoGame/NinjaGaiden Ryu Hayabusa's]] equal. equal in combat. But if you look at their performances throughout the series, it sure doesn't seem that way.
**
way. Ryu [[OneManArmy lays waste to the forces of darkness]] on an almost regular basis, whereas Hayate hasn't so much as won a single tournament. Even his sisters have more accomplishments under their belts than he does. The most he's done, Hayate's done is take out a blimp during a cutscene and mow dow a small group of {{mook}}s.
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** Sora actually has an informed ''weakness'' in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII''. Sora got hit with the BagOfSpilling at the end of ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsDreamDropDistance'' and much of the game is spent traveling through various Disney Worlds seeking to regain his lost powers in preparation for the final battle. However, not only does Sora not ''feel'' weaker, his handling in combat being more fluid than ever, he's defeating enemies which in the first game were considered [[SuperBoss super bosses]] in the ''tutorial''.
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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot. Though they were beefed up significantly in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', averting this trope.

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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less fewer hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot. Though they were beefed up significantly in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', averting this trope.
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** In ''3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot. Though they were beefed up significantly in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', averting this trope.

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** In ''3'', ''VideoGame/Fallout3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot. Though they were beefed up significantly in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', averting this trope.
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** In ''3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot.

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** In ''3'', Protectrons are stated to be "sturdy", and a popular commercial security robot, even though they're one of the most fragile robotic enemies in the game, and have even less hit points than the domestic Mr. Handy robot. Though they were beefed up significantly in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', averting this trope.
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Flame Bait


*** Fast forward one expansion, ''Wrath of the Lich King'', Garrosh does a complete 180 turn of his personality, so instead of the mopey crybaby, his trademark JerkAss persona comes in. And during the early questlines of one of the first Northrend zones Horde players will enter, players witness firsthand that Garrosh is as impatient and reckless as his father (one of the reason he was so depressed in the previous expansion by the way), and was more interested in eliminating the Alliance forces on the opposite side of the zone than dealing with the numerous issues just outside his fortress. Later, when scout requested reinforcements to take out a Necromancer and his small army, [[WhatAnIdiot Garrosh scoffs and sends ''only'' the player]], who would have been promptly captured and zombified had resident Badass Saurfang not seen the stupidity himself and personally came to the rescue. Garrosh also had some followers in later zones who were as stupid and jerkass as he is, one of them even got herself killed by the player because of her own zeal and stupidity. [[MemeticBadass Saurfang]] even called Garrosh out on the fact he was trying to fight a war without bother to gather supplies first. Supplies like artillery, ''armor'', and ''provisions'' Garrosh in fact, regularly made claims along the lines of, "A true warrior doesn't need supplies, allies, or strategy to win."

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*** Fast forward one expansion, ''Wrath of the Lich King'', Garrosh does a complete 180 turn of his personality, so instead of the mopey crybaby, his trademark JerkAss persona comes in. And during the early questlines of one of the first Northrend zones Horde players will enter, players witness firsthand that Garrosh is as impatient and reckless as his father (one of the reason he was so depressed in the previous expansion by the way), and was more interested in eliminating the Alliance forces on the opposite side of the zone than dealing with the numerous issues just outside his fortress. Later, when scout requested reinforcements to take out a Necromancer and his small army, [[WhatAnIdiot Garrosh scoffs and sends ''only'' the player]], player, who would have been promptly captured and zombified had resident Badass Saurfang not seen the stupidity himself and personally came to the rescue. Garrosh also had some followers in later zones who were as stupid and jerkass as he is, one of them even got herself killed by the player because of her own zeal and stupidity. [[MemeticBadass Saurfang]] even called Garrosh out on the fact he was trying to fight a war without bother to gather supplies first. Supplies like artillery, ''armor'', and ''provisions'' Garrosh in fact, regularly made claims along the lines of, "A true warrior doesn't need supplies, allies, or strategy to win."
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** Sniper Wolf is told to be Foxhound's greatest sniper, who can spend a week without sleep, food, or even water as she patiently keeps her sights on her target. In game the most we see her do is shoot at one target, [[spoiler:Meryl]], who was standing up within a few hundred yards of Sniper Wolf, then stay in a compromised position with little cover, running back and forth in plain sight as Solid Snake snipes her down. She appears again later in the game during a blizzard, but she once again fails at properly taking cover or shoot at the very close Solid Snake. Notably she doesn't do much better at sniping than the three Genome soldiers who lay a trap for Snake on the Comms Tower Bridge and can reliably hit him from a good distance in the dark and in a snowstorm, using FAMAS rifles with iron sights. Perhaps "Foxhound's best shot" is a [[DamnedByFaintPraise bit like saying]] "[[ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy the Stormtrooper's best shot]]".

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** Sniper Wolf is told to be Foxhound's greatest sniper, who can spend a week without sleep, food, or even water as she patiently keeps her sights on her target. In game the most we see her do is shoot at one target, [[spoiler:Meryl]], who was standing up within a few hundred yards of Sniper Wolf, then stay in a compromised position with little cover, running back and forth in plain sight as Solid Snake snipes her down. She appears again later in the game during a blizzard, but she once again fails at properly taking cover or shoot at the very close Solid Snake. Notably she doesn't do much any better at sniping than the three Genome soldiers who lay a trap for Snake on the Comms Tower Bridge and can reliably hit him from a good distance in the dark and in a snowstorm, using FAMAS rifles with iron sights.sights, and ''while wearing gas masks'' (and taking an accurate shot while wearing a two-lens gas mask is no easy feat, even in ideal conditions). Perhaps "Foxhound's best shot" is a [[DamnedByFaintPraise bit like saying]] "[[ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy the Stormtrooper's best shot]]".

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* The Demon Lords Azmodan and Belial in ''VideoGame/DiabloIII''. Belial is described as [[ConsummateLiar the embodiment of lies]] and a [[ManipulativeBastard brilliant manipulator]], but your character is able to figure out his true identity when he impersonates [[spoiler:Emperor Hakkan]] before he can use it to steal the MacGuffin from you. Azmodan is described as Hell's finest general and a tactical genius, yet, aside from one quest where he attempts a sneak attack by burrowing his forces through the foundations of a fortress, his tactics in-game amount to [[ZergRush throwing all his forces at you]] in the hopes of [[WeHaveReserves crushing you with sheer numbers]], and his habit of [[IShallTauntYou taunting you with telepathic messages]] allows you to figure out his plans before he puts them into action.

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* The Demon Lords Azmodan and Belial in ''VideoGame/DiabloIII''. ''VideoGame/DiabloIII''
**
Belial is described as [[ConsummateLiar the embodiment The Lord of lies]] Lies]] and a [[ManipulativeBastard brilliant manipulator]], but manipulator]]. But your character is able to figure out his true identity when he impersonates [[spoiler:Emperor Hakkan]] Emperor Hakkan before he Belial can use it to steal the MacGuffin from you. And besides that, there was an even better manipulator in the midst: [[spoiler:Diablo himself, who manipulated Belial and the other Demon Lords into fighting the Nephalem so that Diablo could become the Prime Evil once they were all dead]]. In other words, the "master manipulator" not only couldn't fool the PlayerCharacter, but was OutGambitted by someone else on top of that.
**
Azmodan is described as Hell's finest general and a tactical genius, yet, aside from one quest where genius. The only clever thing he attempts does is attempting a sneak attack by burrowing his forces through the foundations of a fortress, his and making you have to fight in your safe zone one time. Other than that, Azmodan's tactics in-game amount to [[ZergRush throwing all his forces at you]] in the hopes of [[WeHaveReserves crushing you with sheer numbers]], and numbers]]. And his habit of [[IShallTauntYou taunting you with telepathic messages]] allows you to figure out his plans before he puts them into action.action, often because Azmodan just outright tells you what he's going to do. Finally, Azmodan's strategy was only working when ordinary humans were fighting the demons, since the demons were reborn in the Hells every time they died. But the PlayerCharacter is a PhysicalGod that's ImmuneToFate, allowing them to permanently kill demons and slow their advance. And for a supposed tactical genius, Azmodan never changes his strategy once it becomes clear that it's not working.

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* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild'', Prince Sidon is said to be a great warrior of the Zora people and he accompanies you in taking down Vah Ruta...by swimming you close enough to it so you can destroy the barrier preventing you from entering it. As a [[FishPeople Zora]], that isn't particularly impressive, since all of them can do that. He never enters the dungeon with you, nor does the game imply he ever had any intention to. The other three descendent characters don't enter their respective Divine Beasts either, but in their cases it's justified - Riju is only a child (and the chief of the Gerudo), Yunobo is a LovableCoward and StoneWall so he is only useful for his shield ability, and Teba ''was'' going to accompany Link but gets injured when he helps Link destroy Vah Medoh's barrier and has to sit it out. You could argue that with Mipha dead, Sidon has to stay behind as the only remaining heir to King Doraphan, but it doesn't stop him getting close enough to the Divine Beast to help Link actually enter it, so it still seems odd he's [[CharacterShilling hyped up as such a great fighter]] and we never see him deliver on this.

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* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild'', ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild'':
**
Prince Sidon is said to be a great warrior of the Zora people and he accompanies you in taking down Vah Ruta...by swimming you close enough to it so you can destroy the barrier preventing you from entering it. As a [[FishPeople Zora]], that isn't particularly impressive, since all of them can do that. He never enters the dungeon with you, nor does the game imply he ever had any intention to. The other three descendent characters don't enter their respective Divine Beasts either, but in their cases it's justified - Riju is only a child (and the chief of the Gerudo), Yunobo is a LovableCoward and StoneWall so he is only useful for his shield ability, and Teba ''was'' going to accompany Link but gets injured when he helps Link destroy Vah Medoh's barrier and has to sit it out. You could argue that with Mipha dead, Sidon has to stay behind as the only remaining heir to King Doraphan, but it doesn't stop him getting close enough to the Divine Beast to help Link actually enter it, so it still seems odd he's [[CharacterShilling hyped up as such a great fighter]] and we never see him deliver on this.this.
** Speaking of which, Mipha also suffers from this. She's described as having been without equal when it came to weilding a trident, yet all of the flashbacks featuring her instead focus on her healing ability, her crush on Link, or her nurturing side towards Sidon. This especially stands out in the "The Champions' Ballad" DCL, which gave the other three Champions scenes to show off their combat skill, yet she's just shown swimming up a waterfall. Fortunately, ''VideoGame/HyruleWarriorsAgeOfCalamity'' helps to rectify this thanks to her being a playable character who can mow down armies just as easy as everyone else. [[spoiler:[[FutureBadass And so can Sidon]].]]

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Corrected earlier alphabetization


* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild'', Prince Sidon is said to be a great warrior of the Zora people and he accompanies you in taking down Vah Ruta...by swimming you close enough to it so you can destroy the barrier preventing you from entering it. As a [[FishPeople Zora]], that isn't particularly impressive, since all of them can do that. He never enters the dungeon with you, nor does the game imply he ever had any intention to. The other three descendent characters don't enter their respective Divine Beasts either, but in their cases it's justified - Riju is only a child (and the chief of the Gerudo), Yunobo is a LovableCoward and StoneWall so he is only useful for his shield ability, and Teba ''was'' going to accompany Link but gets injured when he helps Link destroy Vah Medoh's barrier and has to sit it out. You could argue that with Mipha dead, Sidon has to stay behind as the only remaining heir to King Doraphan, but it doesn't stop him getting close enough to the Divine Beast to help Link actually enter it, so it still seems odd he's [[CharacterShilling hyped up as such a great fighter]] and we never see him deliver on this.
* For those unfamiliar with the books, a number of {{NPC}}s from ''VideoGame/TheLordOfTheRingsOnline'' can be seen like this. One of the most jarring examples is Samwise Gamgee: The Guardian class (a tank class who is described as protectors of those in need) is partly based on him and how protective he was of Frodo in the books, and higher-level players are sent to Sam as part of their training. Imagine the surprise when learning that the "guardian of unmatched skill" is a nervous hobbit who says things like "We are in quite a pickle, aren't we, Samwise old boy?" It's even more noticeable if you're playing as a hobbit yourself, who by then should have a good number of heroic deeds behind them.



* In ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild'', Prince Sidon is said to be a great warrior of the Zora people and he accompanies you in taking down Vah Ruta...by swimming you close enough to it so you can destroy the barrier preventing you from entering it. As a [[FishPeople Zora]], that isn't particularly impressive, since all of them can do that. He never enters the dungeon with you, nor does the game imply he ever had any intention to. The other three descendent characters don't enter their respective Divine Beasts either, but in their cases it's justified - Riju is only a child (and the chief of the Gerudo), Yunobo is a LovableCoward and StoneWall so he is only useful for his shield ability, and Teba ''was'' going to accompany Link but gets injured when he helps Link destroy Vah Medoh's barrier and has to sit it out. You could argue that with Mipha dead, Sidon has to stay behind as the only remaining heir to King Doraphan, but it doesn't stop him getting close enough to the Divine Beast to help Link actually enter it, so it still seems odd he's [[CharacterShilling hyped up as such a great fighter]] and we never see him deliver on this.
* For those unfamiliar with the books, a number of {{NPC}}s from ''VideoGame/TheLordOfTheRingsOnline'' can be seen like this. One of the most jarring examples is Samwise Gamgee: The Guardian class (a tank class who is described as protectors of those in need) is partly based on him and how protective he was of Frodo in the books, and higher-level players are sent to Sam as part of their training. Imagine the surprise when learning that the "guardian of unmatched skill" is a nervous hobbit who says things like "We are in quite a pickle, aren't we, Samwise old boy?" It's even more noticeable if you're playing as a hobbit yourself, who by then should have a good number of heroic deeds behind them.
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Rewrote a better Devil Survivor example


* Despite his title, Gigolo/[[spoiler:Loki]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters, let alone older women.

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* Despite his title, Gigolo/[[spoiler:Loki]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' despite his title doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as gigolo. The audience never sees him in the company of any older women nor any other kind of women for that matter. He doesn’t appear to be paid or financially supported by an older women for being an escort or social companion. He doesn’t even dance or flirt unless one counts the mildly flirty dialogue he only ever flirts has with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters, let alone older women.protagonist.
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Cut down on example


* Despite his title, Gigolo/[[spoiler:Loki]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters, let alone older women, unless the player characters have seen him do this before the game.

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* Despite his title, Gigolo/[[spoiler:Loki]] from ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters, let alone older women, unless the player characters have seen him do this before the game.women.
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Fixed title and fixed example


* Despite his title, Gigolo from ''VideoGames/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters let alone older women nor does he professionally dance. One wonders if the people behind the game even knew what the word they were using meant unless the characters have seen him before the game or if perhaps the name is just a hint for players that the Gigolo is actually [[spoiler:Loki]].

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* Despite his title, Gigolo Gigolo/[[spoiler:Loki]] from ''VideoGames/DevilSurvivor'' ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters characters, let alone older women nor does he professionally dance. One wonders if the people behind the game even knew what the word they were using meant women, unless the player characters have seen him do this before the game or if perhaps the name is just a hint for players that the Gigolo is actually [[spoiler:Loki]].game.
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Added trope from Devil Survivor character page

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* Despite his title, Gigolo from ''VideoGames/DevilSurvivor'' doesn’t really act much like a gigolo as he only ever flirts with the male protagonist and never with any of the female characters let alone older women nor does he professionally dance. One wonders if the people behind the game even knew what the word they were using meant unless the characters have seen him before the game or if perhaps the name is just a hint for players that the Gigolo is actually [[spoiler:Loki]].
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** In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyTrialsAndTribulations'', there's many remarks to the effect that Furio Tigre is a criminal mastermind and a great planner. While he does manage to put together a pretty complex scheme, [[ComplexityAddiction "complex" is not the same thing as "smart"]]; for the most part, he only makes it as far as he does because the Judge was an idiot. He murders a man who (though no longer in danger of bankruptcy) still owed him 500,000 dollars and was about to trade him something valuable, sets up a pointless restaging of the murder to fool a single eyewitness (resulting in discrepancies that blow a hole in his case), uses a PaperThinDisguise, spends his time on the witness stand ''openly threatening the Judge'', and ultimately falls by way of implicating ''[[INeverSaidItWasPoison himself]]''.
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Added Tales of the Abyss example from character page.

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*** Guy Cecil is revealed to be a qualified lifeguard but this is never relevant to the plot.

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* Scathach from ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' has been hyped up by the cast and her profile as incredibly strong because of her long-lived experience as immortal witch queen of the Land of Shadows but she has never actually been ''shown'' to win a fight as they either happen offscreen with ambiguity over who won or she is shown to lose to her opponent. Her skills are very vaguely defined in the first place, so it's not even clear what she's capable of.
* ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'':
** Gilgamesh, the BigBad of one route and TheDragon of another, apparently has such a high charisma (A+ rank) that his goes beyond "Can be said to have achieved the greatest level of popularity as a human being" (which is A rank). However, you never, never see him doing anything remotely charismatic. Quite the opposite, actually. He spends his whole time being a {{Jerkass}}, SmugSnake, SocialDarwinist who tries to rape Saber. Later works to feature him ended up writing him as more obviously charismatic (though he's still usually a jackass in those works). His physical stats are also stated to be pretty impressive, just a bit below [[LightningBruiser Berserker and Saber]], but he almost never shows them off, relying exclusively on his [[GameBreaker Game-Breaking]] [[StormOfBlades Gate of Babylon]]. Hell, one of the few times he did get forced into melee, [[spoiler:he was thrown off-guard, disarmed, and defeated... by Shirou, who is a human.]]
** Saber is frequently referred to as among the strongest of all the Servants. In practice, though, she tends to be fairly average. While some of this can be blamed on her Master Shirou not being the brightest bulb or the best at providing her with power, or her refusal to throw out her TooAwesomeToUse techniques like Excalibur, she's roughly even with other Servants like Lancer and Assassin (the latter of which isn't even a true Servant), and in one route is even overpowered by a magically-enhanced mortal and held hostage. Rather than the strongest Servant, she is more akin to the one most protected by PlotArmor.
** [[SmugSnake Shinji]] gets good grades, is popular with girls at school, and is the vice-captain of the archery club. Sounds smart, charming, and dangerous, right? His academic standing is just an offhand remark and he doesn't come across as particularly intelligent, he behaves onscreen like a creep or {{Jerkass}} ''at best'' and none of the named female characters like him, and he's 100-percent badassery-free, with his archery skills never being demonstrated and his combat tactics consisting of "order my Servant to attack, gloat about their power, and if things start going against me, either start insulting my opponent or engage InelegantBlubbering and [[VillainsWantMercy beg for life]]."

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* Scathach from ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' has been hyped up by the cast and her profile as incredibly strong because of her long-lived experience as immortal witch queen of the Land of Shadows but she has never actually been ''shown'' to win a fight as they either happen offscreen with ambiguity over who won or she is shown to lose to her opponent. Her skills are very vaguely defined in the first place, so it's not even clear what she's capable of.
*
*''Franchise/FateSeries'':
**
''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'':
** *** Gilgamesh, the BigBad of one route and TheDragon of another, apparently has such a high charisma (A+ rank) that his goes beyond "Can be said to have achieved the greatest level of popularity as a human being" (which is A rank). However, you never, never see him doing anything remotely charismatic. Quite the opposite, actually. He spends his whole time being a {{Jerkass}}, SmugSnake, SocialDarwinist who tries to rape Saber. Later works to feature him ended up writing him as more obviously charismatic (though he's still usually a jackass in those works). His physical stats are also stated to be pretty impressive, just a bit below [[LightningBruiser Berserker and Saber]], but he almost never shows them off, relying exclusively on his [[GameBreaker Game-Breaking]] [[StormOfBlades Gate of Babylon]]. Hell, one of the few times he did get forced into melee, [[spoiler:he was thrown off-guard, disarmed, and defeated... by Shirou, who is a human.]]
** *** Saber is frequently referred to as among the strongest of all the Servants. In practice, though, she tends to be fairly average. While some of this can be blamed on her Master Shirou not being the brightest bulb or the best at providing her with power, or her refusal to throw out her TooAwesomeToUse techniques like Excalibur, she's roughly even with other Servants like Lancer and Assassin (the latter of which isn't even a true Servant), and in one route is even overpowered by a magically-enhanced mortal and held hostage. Rather than the strongest Servant, she is more akin to the one most protected by PlotArmor.
** *** [[SmugSnake Shinji]] gets good grades, is popular with girls at school, and is the vice-captain of the archery club. Sounds smart, charming, and dangerous, right? His academic standing is just an offhand remark and he doesn't come across as particularly intelligent, he behaves onscreen like a creep or {{Jerkass}} ''at best'' and none of the named female characters like him, and he's 100-percent badassery-free, with his archery skills never being demonstrated and his combat tactics consisting of "order my Servant to attack, gloat about their power, and if things start going against me, either start insulting my opponent or engage InelegantBlubbering and [[VillainsWantMercy beg for life]].""
** Scathach from ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' has been hyped up by the cast and her profile as incredibly strong because of her long-lived experience as immortal witch queen of the Land of Shadows but she has never actually been ''shown'' to win a fight as they either happen offscreen with ambiguity over who won or she is shown to lose to her opponent. Her skills are very vaguely defined in the first place, so it's not even clear what she's capable of.



* ''VideoGame/MegamanBattleNetwork'':
** Used for a gag in ''2''; when a villain is captured, he expresses disbelief at how two kids could beat him, future head of Gospel (note: ego), with an IQ of 170. [[TheRival Chaud]] informs him "Your IQ of 170 didn't help you this time."
** In ''3'', Tora constantly mentions "strategy" and "thinking several moves ahead" and is even introduced in the N1 as a "master strategist". His navi, [=KingMan=] is one of the cheapest bosses in the entire series, its "strategy" consisting of staying in back row while a bunch of autonomous chess pieces continually harass the player.
* Omega in ''VideoGame/MegaManZero'' is supposed to be a LightningBruiser even when wearing his armor, but due to sprite limitations, he's unable to be depicted as doing other than floating in place and detaching his arms to attack. [[spoiler: His LightningBruiser status comes through much better when he sheds his armor and fights in his true form: Zero's original body.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/MegamanBattleNetwork'':
''Franchise/MegaMan'':
** Used for a gag in ''2''; when a villain is captured, he expresses disbelief at how two kids could beat him, future head of Gospel (note: ego), with an IQ of 170. [[TheRival Chaud]] informs him "Your IQ of 170 didn't help you this time."
** In ''3'', Tora constantly mentions "strategy" and "thinking several moves ahead" and is even introduced in the N1 as a "master strategist". His navi, [=KingMan=] is one of the cheapest bosses in the entire series, its "strategy" consisting of staying in back row while a bunch of autonomous chess pieces continually harass the player.
*
Omega in ''VideoGame/MegaManZero'' is supposed to be a LightningBruiser even when wearing his armor, but due to sprite limitations, he's unable to be depicted as doing other than floating in place and detaching his arms to attack. [[spoiler: His LightningBruiser status comes through much better when he sheds his armor and fights in his true form: Zero's original body.]]]]
** ''VideoGame/MegamanBattleNetwork'':
*** Used for a gag in ''2''; when a villain is captured, he expresses disbelief at how two kids could beat him, future head of Gospel (note: ego), with an IQ of 170. [[TheRival Chaud]] informs him "Your IQ of 170 didn't help you this time."
*** In ''3'', Tora constantly mentions "strategy" and "thinking several moves ahead" and is even introduced in the N1 as a "master strategist". His navi, [=KingMan=] is one of the cheapest bosses in the entire series, its "strategy" consisting of staying in back row while a bunch of autonomous chess pieces continually harass the player.



* ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'', Van is stated to have taught Tear the Fonic Hyms, but in actual battles he only uses [[KillItWithFire the fifth]], and even then he doesn't sing it. [[spoiler:Though is implied to have used them off-screen after his first defeat.]]
* ''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny2'':
** Nanaly's skills with Archery is said to put 1,000 men to shame. However, in Gameplay, the battle system works against her ''massively'', as arrows are both slower than melee (and thus can't do damage as quickly) and do less damage than magical attacks, and she is frequently placed on the bench the second a fifth party member is available - because the game gives her the shaft. However, in other games where she cameos, her archery abilities don't get the shaft at all.
** Judas is said to have picked a dragon skull mask for its defensive attributes, but he's the resident GlassCannon whether he has the mask on or not, [[spoiler: essentially the same as he was in the first game]], giving the impression that the [[GogglesDoNothing mask does nothing]]. [[PaperThinDisguise It doesn't even hide his face]].

to:

* ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'', Van is stated to have taught Tear the Fonic Hyms, but in actual battles he only uses [[KillItWithFire the fifth]], and even then he doesn't sing it. [[spoiler:Though is implied to have used them off-screen after his first defeat.]]
*
''VideoGame/TalesSeries'':
**
''VideoGame/TalesOfDestiny2'':
** *** Nanaly's skills with Archery is said to put 1,000 men to shame. However, in Gameplay, the battle system works against her ''massively'', as arrows are both slower than melee (and thus can't do damage as quickly) and do less damage than magical attacks, and she is frequently placed on the bench the second a fifth party member is available - because the game gives her the shaft. However, in other games where she cameos, her archery abilities don't get the shaft at all.
** *** Judas is said to have picked a dragon skull mask for its defensive attributes, but he's the resident GlassCannon whether he has the mask on or not, [[spoiler: essentially the same as he was in the first game]], giving the impression that the [[GogglesDoNothing mask does nothing]]. [[PaperThinDisguise It doesn't even hide his face]].face]].
** ''VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss'':
*** Van is stated to have taught Tear the Fonic Hyms, but in actual battles he only uses [[KillItWithFire the fifth]], and even then he doesn't sing it. [[spoiler:Though is implied to have used them off-screen after his first defeat.]]

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