Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** The general idea is that the experience of being fed on by a vampire fogs up the mind so they don't remember it specifically enough to recall the "he drank my blood" bit, instead just remembering an attack or a night of freaky sex or heavy clubbing or whatever. But some people are sharper than others and have better memories so there's always a risk that a human will remember, it's just not likely. Also the context matters; if a vampire grabs someone in an alleyway, drinks then runs off then the victim will probably just remember being attacked, if a a vampire grabs someone then spends ten minutes grandstanding about how they're a big bad vampire then bites them the victim will remember all that nonsense.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 69 (click to see context) from:
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page 138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?
to:
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page 138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?regularly?
** There's a reason why they made another edition. That said I think it was probably just poorly worded; vampires can and usually do feed without killing but between misjudging how much blood a human can afford to lose and frenzies most vampires will kill some people even if they don't want to.
** There's a reason why they made another edition. That said I think it was probably just poorly worded; vampires can and usually do feed without killing but between misjudging how much blood a human can afford to lose and frenzies most vampires will kill some people even if they don't want to.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
**** On page 186 of the first edition player's guide, a letter from one vampire to another advises feeding on the homeless because "no one will believe them if they remember it anyway." Does that mean the people fed on only *usually* forget, but not always? Or did the rule that people forget the specifics of the experience not come till later editions?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 68 (click to see context) from:
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?
to:
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page138) (page 138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 67 (click to see context) from:
** It is really the most viable option, but it'll need to be restructured or reinforced, possibly with tech or magic. This controlled reveal scenario isn't really feasible. [=WoD=] vampires, collectively, have a wide array of powers. If you ignore other supernatural beings, any weird incidents or mysterious disappearances will, reasonably so, be blamed on them. They've been doing such things for thousands of years. The Masquerade also provides a WeirdnessCensor. The thing that pushes most humans not to ponder whether Heinrich Himmler was a vampire which inevitably leads to - did vampires engineer the Holocaust?
to:
** It is really the most viable option, but it'll need to be restructured or reinforced, possibly with tech or magic. This controlled reveal scenario isn't really feasible. [=WoD=] vampires, collectively, have a wide array of powers. If you ignore other supernatural beings, any weird incidents or mysterious disappearances will, reasonably so, be blamed on them. They've been doing such things for thousands of years. The Masquerade also provides a WeirdnessCensor. The thing that pushes most humans not to ponder whether Heinrich Himmler was a vampire which inevitably leads to - did vampires engineer the Holocaust?Holocaust?
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?
* Was reading the first edition player's guide and its essays on role-playing, and one essay (page138) says "you must kill regularly without losing your soul." However, the corebook says (page 117) that vampires can feed on a person without putting their life in danger as long as they don't drink more than half of the person's blood pool (and implies that vampires can restrain themselves in that way and thereby avoid risking humanity loss). So why must they kill regularly?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
*** This is because the * real* Sabbat, the True Black Hand or Tal'Mahe'Ra, is a conspiracy that purposely created and is manipulating the regular Sabbat as patsies in order to * support* the return of the Antediluvians. Irony of ironies. Yes, this is all part of how the WoD is, as its name implies, a CrapsackWorld.
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie ''antitribu'', too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them, * none* of the non-Nosferatu Princes, no matter how highly ranked in the Camarilla, have * any* knowledge of the sewer rats' personal security system, internal clan organization or deep secrets, and the Nossies sure as hell aren't relying on any Camarilla or Sabbat higher-ups whatsoever when it comes to their plans to survive the return of the Nicktuku.
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie ''antitribu'', too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them, * none* of the non-Nosferatu Princes, no matter how highly ranked in the Camarilla, have * any* knowledge of the sewer rats' personal security system, internal clan organization or deep secrets, and the Nossies sure as hell aren't relying on any Camarilla or Sabbat higher-ups whatsoever when it comes to their plans to survive the return of the Nicktuku.
to:
*** This is because the * real* ''real'' Sabbat, the True Black Hand or Tal'Mahe'Ra, is a conspiracy that purposely created and is manipulating the regular Sabbat as patsies in order to * support* ''support'' the return of the Antediluvians. Irony of ironies. Yes, this is all part of how the WoD [=WoD=] is, as its name implies, a CrapsackWorld.
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie ''antitribu'', too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them,* none* ''none'' of the non-Nosferatu Princes, no matter how highly ranked in the Camarilla, have * any* ''any'' knowledge of the sewer rats' personal security system, internal clan organization or deep secrets, and the Nossies sure as hell aren't relying on any Camarilla or Sabbat higher-ups whatsoever when it comes to their plans to survive the return of the Nicktuku.
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie ''antitribu'', too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them,
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
** Another possibility is that the Antedeluvians' existence is denied out of fear. Some folks just don't want to face the idea that someday a big fucking blood-sucking monster with a power level that is OVER NINE THOUSSAAAAAANND!!! could one day show up and start making trouble in THEIR neighbourhood.
to:
** Another possibility is that the Antedeluvians' existence is denied out of fear. Some folks just don't want to face the idea that someday a big fucking blood-sucking monster with a power level that is OVER NINE THOUSSAAAAAANND!!! could one day show up and start making trouble in THEIR neighbourhood.neighborhood.
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
*** This answer should apply to every WoD-related headscratcher ever.
to:
*** This answer should apply to every WoD-related [=WoD=]-related headscratcher ever.
Changed line(s) 61 (click to see context) from:
** VillainDecay. The Sabbat were originally pure antagonists, so their "Fuck the Masquerade" mentality worked. Players started finding them more interesting than the DesignatedHero Camarilla, so they were retooled to be playable, and the emphasis on discarding the Camarilla Traditions was downplayed to keep the game from breaking wide open.
to:
** VillainDecay. The Sabbat were originally pure antagonists, so their "Fuck the Masquerade" mentality worked. Players started finding them more interesting than the DesignatedHero Camarilla, interesting, so they were retooled to be playable, and the emphasis on discarding the Camarilla Traditions was downplayed to keep the game from breaking wide open.
Changed line(s) 67 (click to see context) from:
** It is really the most viable option, but it'll need to be restructured or reinforced, possibly with tech or magic. This controlled reveal scenario isn't really feasible. WoD vampires, collectively, have a wide array of powers. If you ignore other supernatural beings, any weird incidents or mysterious disappearances will, reasonably so, be blamed on them. They've been doing such things for thousands of years. The Masquerade also provides a WeirdnessCensor. The thing that pushes most humans not to ponder whether Heinrich Himmler was a vampire which inevitably leads to - did vampires engineer the Holocaust?
to:
** It is really the most viable option, but it'll need to be restructured or reinforced, possibly with tech or magic. This controlled reveal scenario isn't really feasible. WoD [=WoD=] vampires, collectively, have a wide array of powers. If you ignore other supernatural beings, any weird incidents or mysterious disappearances will, reasonably so, be blamed on them. They've been doing such things for thousands of years. The Masquerade also provides a WeirdnessCensor. The thing that pushes most humans not to ponder whether Heinrich Himmler was a vampire which inevitably leads to - did vampires engineer the Holocaust?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Fails in this case; the Mage main book notes that the Curse of Caine is one of few cosmological constants, that is it remains true regardless of if people believe in it and cannot be changed by True Magic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 66 (click to see context) from:
----
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Reconciling plot written later that contradicted the original setting state, of course! The in-universe version is, before the formation of the Camarilla the Long Night was a mess of vampire religious sects and cults - many of which were violently depleted during the Second Inquisition, and then the elders who formed the Camarilla decided those that remained didn't fit the society they were trying to build, so an unofficial "code of silence" was implemented regarding vampiric history, to discourage young vampires from digging, because a lot of those cults espoused beliefs and practices that could threaten the Masquerade. As the game plodded along into 4th edition the remnants of the old vampiric Second Estate - suppressed religious sects and mystic/spiritual clans - were rising to the surface and congealing together under the umbrella of the Sabbat, turning the game into a 1st estate/2nd estate tug-of-war between the Camarilla and Sabbat. Then 5th Edition did away with most of the Sabbat, but in 5E kindred society is once again rife with religious cults, including worshipers of Antediluvians and legendary Methuselahs.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* As of 5e, there's ''very little'' motivation to keep the Masquerade up - almost to the point that it's unbelievable that any but the most ancient and naive Vampires would consider it a viable option. Gehenna is actively occurring and the Masquerade itself is in the process of falling and has ''already fallen'' for most human governments - the entities with the ability to do the most harm to Kindred society. The admitted nature of TechnologyMarchesOn makes maintaining it for any significant time impractical. The Kindred's best bet as a whole is almost certainly taking the initiative to out themselves and rely on celebrity and popular kindred already imbedded in Kine media or other high-ranking stations to try to make a plea for at least temporary co-existence and selling the medical benefits of Kindred blood and Disciplines to a public that might consider paying for them. The only advantage to keeping the facade going at this point is that it makes feeding slightly easier than it would be if the Masquerade fell. The Second Inquisition has all of the disadvantages of the Masquerade falling (namely swarms of highly trained hunters backed by world governments) with none of the potential advantages (managing to get human political support for Kindred).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** She's a Lasombra. She did it with an extremely basic level of [[CastingAShadow Obtenebration]] that just about any Lasombra could do.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 54 (click to see context) from:
*** Many sourcebooks point out that feeding on humans is an incredibly pleasurable experience for vampires, as intense as a powerful drug high - especially since in the absence of actual food and sex it's the ''only'' physical pleasure that vampires can feel. It would require incredible willpower to turn down that high in favor of drinking comparatively bland animal blood.
to:
*** Many sourcebooks point out that feeding on humans is an incredibly pleasurable experience for vampires, as intense as a powerful drug high - especially since in the absence of actual food and sex it's the ''only'' physical pleasure that vampires can feel. It would require incredible willpower to turn down that high in favor of drinking nothing but comparatively bland animal blood.blood night after night.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Many sourcebooks point out that feeding on humans is an incredibly pleasurable experience for vampires, as intense as a powerful drug high - especially since in the absence of actual food and sex it's the ''only'' physical pleasure that vampires can feel. It would require incredible willpower to turn down that high in favor of drinking comparatively bland animal blood.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** There have been vampires of all generations all the way down to the Fifteenth all along, they're just ''much'' worse at surviving the calamities of vampire history. The reason why there aren't 3000-year-old 13th-generation vampires running around is the 13th-gens of the time either diablerized their way to a lower generation or got killed since then. And any exceptions aren't about to draw attention to their weakness.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
** In one of the source books (2nd ed) it reveals that Saulot has awakend inside Tremere and after a battle of wills took over and is now wondering around in Tremere's body while Tremere has now possessed the leader of the Tremere antribu and killed them all in one big spell in mexico city.....
to:
** In one of the source books (2nd ed) it reveals that Saulot has awakend inside Tremere and after a battle of wills took over and is now wondering wandering around in Tremere's body while Tremere has now possessed the leader of the Tremere antribu ''antitribu'' and killed them all in one big spell in mexico city.....
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie antitribu, too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them, * none* of the non-Nosferatu Princes, no matter how highly ranked in the Camarilla, have * any* knowledge of the sewer rats' personal security system, internal clan organization or deep secrets, and the Nossies sure as hell aren't relying on any Camarilla or Sabbat higher-ups whatsoever when it comes to their plans to survive the return of the Nicktuku.
to:
*** Anyway, the Nossies being the Camarilla doesn't make much of a difference either way. There are plenty of Nossie antitribu, ''antitribu'', too. The Clan doesn't care -- for the Nosferatu more than any other clan, factional loyalty is just a formality and a convenience. The Nossies are loyal to the Camarilla because they happen to be the ones keeping law, order and the peace right now -- they have no ultimate loyalty to them, * none* of the non-Nosferatu Princes, no matter how highly ranked in the Camarilla, have * any* knowledge of the sewer rats' personal security system, internal clan organization or deep secrets, and the Nossies sure as hell aren't relying on any Camarilla or Sabbat higher-ups whatsoever when it comes to their plans to survive the return of the Nicktuku.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Or maybe not. The Supernatural flaws are kinda weird. One you can take makes you vulnerable to all crosses, not just those empowered by True Faith, which explicitly isn't linked to crosses any more than to any other religious icon.
