History Headscratchers / ThePunisher2017

** One assumes he uses another alias and it’s likely veteran support groups often have vets who cannot divulge classified information about their service so a person being crypic about a past mission or war is common. His face being visible is a bit of a plothole however but it’s provably safe to say Frank won’t stay in the group for long.

* The series seems to imply that the world thinks Frank died on the exploding boat in Daredevil Season 2, despite appearing afterwards in public and sniping the Hand ninjas. One of the pages on this wiki says this is a retcon, but Frank is wearing the Punisher outfit he was using for that specific ninja scene, which he never wore again in Daredevil. Did only Karen and Matt recognize the skull-chested sniper killing ninjas in that scene?

** I got the impression that Karen is getting more of a devil may care attitude after Matt's death. She invites The Punisher of all people into her house, and offers him alcohol. Knowing just how violent he is, and the last time she did something similar she got shot at, she is remarkably blase about her own safety (Frank may be an ally but you don't offer someone like him booze). Her kindness is also an example of looking for a human connection after losing Matt. The last time she spoke to Frank in Daredevil, she literally told him he would be dead to her if he shot Schoonover, which he did almost immediately. Her reaction to seeing him on the street is a lot warmer than you would expect. With Foggy at a new job and her boyfriend recently dead, she is looking for any human connection.
** In scenes between Karen and Frank, Matt is basically the elephant in the room. Frank is tiptoeing around the issue of Matt's death. For example, when he meets Karen he doesn't say something like "How have you been?" because he knows damn well her boyfriend just died, and saying something like that doesn't show much tact. He also avoids subjects like her new job (asking about it would lead to asking why she left Murdock & Nelson, which would bring up Matt) or why she is being so nice to him after he was supposedly dead to her.

[[folder:Dinah and Billy]]
* How did Dinah figure out that Billy was the fifth guy that got away from the shootout and also the one who killed Sam? Sure, Madani read that report showing the other four guys having past affiliations with Anvil, and she comes to talk to Billy while he's providing security for Karen and Senator Orti, but how did she connect that Billy was the fifth guy?
** It wasn't a huge leap. The four guys weren't just connected. Because despite Billy's line about them likely working for all sort of groups, their history almost exclusively points at Anvil. Billy's guarded difficulty, the odd behavior of the fifth man (he shot one of his own, and you could say she'd notice the one pushed out), lined up coincidences about information she gave Billy and the activities against her. She also noted Sam's expression of surprise, as if he'd recognized the man who killed him.
** [[INeverSaidItWasPoison Also, when he's talking to her about Sam's death. . . how did he know Sam was stabbed?]] Wasn't reported to the press.

[[folder:Homeless guy meeting]]
* I sorta get why Frank's way of approaching Karen is to sit on a sidewalk dressed as a beggar and wait for her to come by. But how would he expect that to work? Why would she stop to give change to this one homeless guy that (kinda rudely) asks for it, when she probably said no to a bunch of other homeless people right before this? Frank's plan of approach would've fallen apart if Karen had just ignored him.
** Yes clearly he can't speak or make her recognize in any other way if she doesn't give him money, it's not like he can't say hey Karen and people will see it as just a homeless guy recognizing someone of his past life. The disguise is not for her, it's for the people around that might recognize Frank as the guy who shot a hospital a year back. He was just playing the role a bit to make it look more casual than "it's me, Frank, disguised as a hobo to not get arrested".

[[folder:Curtis and O'Connor]]
* How did it take so long for Curtis to do some research on O'Connor and discover he's a Stolen Valor fake who joined up after Vietnam and never saw combat, despite being very disruptive and dismissive of everyone at the veteran group therapy sessions. Especially O'Connor claiming to have earned a Silver Star should have had Curtis look into the matter, unless he was just being trusting enough nobody would be so low to try such a thing.
** It was probably exactly that. Curtis was intent on creating a safe space where everyone could talk about whatever they needed to, and probably felt O'Connor just needed a forum to vent his frustrations. Once he saw that O'Connor was becoming a PoisonousFriend to Lewis, a kid Curtis has become very invested in because he's the most obviously-damaged person at the group, Curtis did some digging and learned the O'Connor really had no place being in that group at all, and was using it and its members for his own ends. Unfortunately, it was too late for Lewis.

[[folder:Final scene]]
* At the end of the last episode, Frank attends one of Curtis' veteran support group meetings, sharing his point of view with the others attending. At this point, Frank Castle is still officially considered to be at large. Are the other people there all aware of who he is? If so, what's keeping any of them from pointing the authorities his way (not knowing that certain people in power just let him off the hook)? Certainly, Frank couldn't explain the whole situation without spoiling his end of the agreement to start his life anew.
** One assumes he uses another alias and it’s likely veteran support groups often have vets who cannot divulge classified information about their service so a person being crypic about a past mission or war is common. His face being visible is a bit of a plothole however but it’s provably safe to say Frank won’t stay in the group for long.

[[folder:Gait recognition]]
* So when we see David running the gait comparison on the footage of Frank leaving the poker game shootout, what's the source of the footage that David is running a comparison against?
** The hospital camera, the trial, maybe even earlier footage.

[[/folder]]

** In scenes between Karen and Frank, Matt is basically the elephant in the room. Frank is tiptoeing around the issue of Matt's death. For example, when he meets Karen he doesn't say something like "How have you been?" because he knows damn well her boyfriend just died, and saying something like that doesn't show much tact. He also avoids subjects like her new job (asking about it would lead to asking why she left Murdock & Nelson, which would bring up Matt) or why she is being so nice to him after he was supposedly dead to her.

* It's repeatedly mentioned on this wiki that Karen seems to be in mourning (judging by her clothes and actions). But I honestly didn't get that impression as she didn't really act all the different from the last we saw her in the Defenders. Can someone please clear this up for me? Maybe I just missed something? I mean it’s not a stretch by any means, but if its just an assumption it should probably go unter the YMMV tab.

[[/folder]]

** Frank is basically drawing the line between terrorist and vigilante as he sees it. He actively targets those society at large generally would consider criminals, but who have mostly escaped the consequences of their actions through corrupt means. In short, when he uses fear, it's targeted at those who have convinced themselves they no longer have to worry about fallout. When Frank gets a bystander killed, it's usually an accident or honest mistakes. Lewis, however, doesn't make this distinction from the get-go. He hits as many as possible to sow fear in people who have not done anything actively illegal, but only have a job or opinion he doesn't agree with. It's a fine distinction and YMMV, but it's Frank's.

** Lewis never faced his enemies. He bombed innocent people instead. Addiitonally, there are multiple instances of Frank going right out in the open to shoot his enemies (like when he went after Grotto at the hospital, or used Karen as bait to lure two of Schoonover's operatives to the diner) and he even wears the skull the emblem for the explicit purpose of having his foes see him coming. Even the grenade scene involved him walking up to his enemies, only a few feet away and using a dud as opposed to setting a bomb and leaving the scene. As for the morality of his actions, Frank is very much an AntiHero whose actions are never fully justified.

*** Yeah, before she knew Matt was Daredevil she was supportive of his actions. It was only after she found out Matt was a vigilante that she tried to get him to stop. She didn't see it as a moral issue. She simply didn't want her friend/ex-lover to die. With Frank, it's a bit different since she never knew him as anything but a vigilante and even then, she questions when his war will end and shows concern for his safety.

** Lewis never faced his enemies. He bombed innocent people instead. Addiitonally, there are multiple instances of Frank going right out in the open to shoot his enemies and he even wears the skull the emblem for the explicit purpose of having his foes see him coming. Even the grenade scene involved him walking up to his enemies, only a few feet away and using a dud as opposed to setting a bomb and leaving the scene. As for the morality of his actions, Frank is very much an AntiHero whose actions are never fully justified.

The hospital camera, the trial, maybe even earlier footage.

** She actually tells people a lot about her feelings, I mean she talked about her relationship issues with the freaking ''Punisher'' in season 2, a bit of her past with Cardenas and how scared she feels with Trish that the Hand is alive. Lie it's not because she doesn't tell Fran about Matt's death that she closed himself it's because she remembers last time she did he used her as bait in a restaurant.

** She is just overprotective of Matt since for a good while she saw him as a blind guy that get bruised, she doesn't care uch if other people like Urich or Frank put their life on the line, she even asked Turk to activate his bracelet in the hostage takeover even though that would make the Hand butcher him.

** A lot has been shown across ''Series/Daredevil2015' to highlight how [[BirdsOfAFeather Matt and Karen have quite a lot in common]]. One thing Karen has in common with Matt is that she doesn’t often actually talk about her feelings with other people, whether that be Matt, Foggy, Ellison, Ben, or even Frank. When was the last time she told someone how she felt? She’s guarded in that way. She primarily questions other peoples' beliefs and/or actions, or she states her opinion on how others are likely to end up based on their actions...and the audience is left having to infer her personal beliefs based on how she navigates that clandestine role. In ''The Defenders'', Karen doesn’t really state that Matt needs to stop being Daredevil because it’s immoral, but because it’s hurting Matt’s life and will get him killed. Same with Frank during ''The Punisher'': even when she asks Frank “where does it stop?” it is framed as a question about Frank, not his actions. And in ''The Punisher'', Karen's definitely looking like a woman in mourning: wearing dark clothes all the time, less likely to snark at people she’s with, less assertive with Ellison, doesn’t do anything badass until Lewis takes her hostage, etc.

** One assumes he uses another alias and it’s likely veteran support groups often have vets who cannot divulge classified information about their service so a person being crytpic about a past mission or war is common. His face being visible is a bit of a plothole however but it’s provably safe to say Frank won’t stay in the group for long.

** Yes clearly he can't speak or make her recognize in any other way if she doesn't give him money, it's not like he can't say hey Aren and people will see it as just a homeless guy recognizing someone of his past life. The disguise is not for her, it's for the people around that might recognize Frank as the guy who shot a hospital a year back. He was just playing the role a bit to make it look more casual than "it's me, Frank".

** [[INeverSaidItWasPoison Also, when he's talking to her about Sam's death. . . how did he know Sam was stabbed?]]