History Headscratchers / ThePrince

4th Sep '14 10:16:28 AM tdwally
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** Basically, you want to be known as the "hard but fair" sort of ruler. The people fear the punishments you can inflict on them, but agree on the whole that you are being reasonable about who you inflict them on.
16th Apr '14 5:47:37 PM Tdwalls
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** Note that the book was in a foreign language...but this seems to fit. "There are two reasons people will avoid killing you. They're afraid of what will happen if you find out, or they like you too much." And, the reason hatred is so bad, is that they don't CARE what will happen...they just want you DEAD.

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** Note that the book was in a foreign language...but this seems to fit. "There are two reasons people will avoid killing you. They're afraid of what will happen if you find out, or they like you too much." And, the reason hatred is so bad, is that they don't CARE what will happen...they just want you DEAD.DEAD.
** My personal interpretation is that the ideal prince is a lot like a parent. His 'children' fear what he will do to them if they break his rules, but otherwise are fine with him. And since those rules are justified and reasonable, that reduces the ire the prince receives for punishing those that break them. What evokes hatred is if the rules are unreasonable, or the punishments are far too harsh.
18th Aug '13 3:40:19 AM Korodzik
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** It's true that there will always be a couple people who hate you, but unless you're ruling a bunch of idiots and madmen if you do your job properly the vast majority won't want to violently overthrow you. [[hottip: *: I don't think this necessarily applies to developed democratic societies though, since people in general have such diverse interests it's hard for any one person to stay in power for a very long time. But at the time ThePrince was written most people's only interest was staying alive.]]

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** It's true that there will always be a couple people who hate you, but unless you're ruling a bunch of idiots and madmen if you do your job properly the vast majority won't want to violently overthrow you. [[hottip: *: I [[note]]I don't think this necessarily applies to developed democratic societies though, since people in general have such diverse interests it's hard for any one person to stay in power for a very long time. But at the time ThePrince was written most people's only interest was staying alive.]][[/note]]
30th Mar '13 12:53:27 PM Rahkshi500
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*** "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate."
25th Nov '12 1:31:34 PM Tarlonniel
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*** False. The exact quote is this: "It may be answered that one should wish to be both [loved and feared], but, because it is '''difficult''' to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved.?

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*** False. The exact quote is this: "It may be answered that one should wish to be both [loved and feared], but, because it is '''difficult''' to unite them in one person, it is much safer to be feared than loved.?"
24th Nov '12 9:35:15 PM MitchellTF
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** Then again I guess fear in the context of instilling anxiety and love are mutually exclusive, while fear in the context of instilling respect is not.

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** Then again I guess fear in the context of instilling anxiety and love are mutually exclusive, while fear in the context of instilling respect is not.not.
** Note that the book was in a foreign language...but this seems to fit. "There are two reasons people will avoid killing you. They're afraid of what will happen if you find out, or they like you too much." And, the reason hatred is so bad, is that they don't CARE what will happen...they just want you DEAD.
5th Nov '12 6:32:51 PM TVRulezAgain
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** Actually, he addresses this quite handily with his Lion and Fox quote, which basically boils down to "if you ''are'' going to be a bastard, do it on the down-low". It is important that the prince be ''seen'' as brave and virtuous (albeit brutal, like a lion) but not actually be so (the fox). Also, several of the strategies were about creating a patsy for your cruelties and then disposing them for popularity. Namely, he recommends setting a brutal and cruel CompleteMonster in control of newly conquered or rebellious provinces, then give him a free hand to commit wanton cruelty - then come on in a few months later and basically say 'gasp! what villainy', execute the poor sap and give his head to the people. Instant popularity!

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** Actually, he addresses this quite handily with his Lion and Fox quote, which basically boils down to "if you ''are'' going to be a bastard, do it on the down-low". It is important that the prince be ''seen'' as brave and virtuous (albeit brutal, like a lion) but not actually be so (the fox). Also, several of the strategies were about creating a patsy for your cruelties and then disposing them for popularity. Namely, he recommends setting a brutal and cruel CompleteMonster villain in control of newly conquered or rebellious provinces, then give him a free hand to commit wanton cruelty - then come on in a few months later and basically say 'gasp! what villainy', execute the poor sap and give his head to the people. Instant popularity!
26th Sep '12 10:58:28 AM xenol
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* This may go into a WildMassGuess, but one of definitions of "fear" is to instill respect. The common usage is in Biblical texts, where one should "fear God". But the context is in such a way that you shouldn't be afraid of God. I haven't read the actual literature (probably won't, too lazy), but would the text more sense if it's used in this context? I mean, you can be respected, but not exactly loved. The only example I can think of is Erwin Rommel and his adversaries in the African Campaign. I'm pretty sure Patton and Montgomery didn't "love" him, but Patton at least respected the general highly.

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* This may go into a WildMassGuess, but one of definitions of "fear" is to instill respect. The common usage is in Biblical texts, where one should "fear God". But the context is in such a way that you shouldn't be afraid of God. I haven't read the actual literature (probably won't, too lazy), but would the text more sense if it's used in this context? I mean, you can be respected, but not exactly loved. The only example I can think of is Erwin Rommel and his adversaries in the African Campaign. I'm pretty sure Patton and Montgomery didn't "love" him, but Patton at least respected the general highly.highly.
** Then again I guess fear in the context of instilling anxiety and love are mutually exclusive, while fear in the context of instilling respect is not.
26th Sep '12 10:57:10 AM xenol
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** He also dedicated it to an anti-Republican family that he was seeking employment from. Trying to figure out the motivations of people who have been dead for centuries can get tricky.

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** He also dedicated it to an anti-Republican family that he was seeking employment from. Trying to figure out the motivations of people who have been dead for centuries can get tricky.tricky.
* This may go into a WildMassGuess, but one of definitions of "fear" is to instill respect. The common usage is in Biblical texts, where one should "fear God". But the context is in such a way that you shouldn't be afraid of God. I haven't read the actual literature (probably won't, too lazy), but would the text more sense if it's used in this context? I mean, you can be respected, but not exactly loved. The only example I can think of is Erwin Rommel and his adversaries in the African Campaign. I'm pretty sure Patton and Montgomery didn't "love" him, but Patton at least respected the general highly.
20th Jul '12 10:03:09 AM GrantMK2
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** Also, it may be a case of being ''too'' subtle a satire. It doesn't help that it's very well written, by a man well versed in history and political philosophy, so everything comes across as sound and rational political advice.

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** Also, it may be a case of being ''too'' subtle a satire. It doesn't help that it's very well written, by a man well versed in history and political philosophy, so everything comes across as sound and rational political advice.advice.
** He also dedicated it to an anti-Republican family that he was seeking employment from. Trying to figure out the motivations of people who have been dead for centuries can get tricky.
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