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** In addition to the above, remember that Angier ''wants'' Borden to partially clue into how the trick works, so he'll be compelled to sneak backstage and get framed for murdering him. Switching out a perfect trap door with one that a sharp-eyed person like Borden can notice maximizes his chances at piqueing Borden's interest enough to be found with him in the tank.

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** In addition to the above, remember that Angier ''wants'' Borden to partially clue into how the trick works, so he'll be compelled to sneak backstage and get framed for murdering him. Switching out a perfect trap door with one that a sharp-eyed person like Borden can notice maximizes his chances at of piqueing Borden's interest enough to be found with him in the tank.
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** In addition to the above, remember that Angier ''wants'' Borden to partially clue into how the trick works, so he'll be compelled to sneak backstage and get framed for murdering him. Switching out a perfect trap door with one that a sharp-eyed person like Borden can notice maximizes his chances at piqueing Borden's interest enough to be found with him in the tank.
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* Once Tesla had [[spoiler:successfully built the cloning device for Angier, how hard could it have been to modify it into being an actual cloning machine? That is, after creating the clone, the machine immediately zaps the man in the machine to destroy him. It would have then worked in the manner that Angier requested, would have made things much easier for Angier given his purposes, and I'm sure a scientist who had the ability to make a cloning device could manage something that destroyed the original. Tesla himself says that nothing is impossible, and if he can create matter (what the machine does is even more complicated than that), he can certainly destroy it. Or are we led to believe Tesla probably had this planned, but then got attacked by Edison and had to give what he had to Angier before bolting?]]

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* Once Tesla had [[spoiler:successfully built the cloning device for Angier, how hard could it have been to modify it into being an actual cloning teleporting machine? That is, after creating the clone, the machine immediately zaps the man in the machine to destroy him. It would have then worked in the manner that Angier requested, would have made things much easier for Angier given his purposes, and I'm sure a scientist who had the ability to make a cloning device could manage something that destroyed the original. Tesla himself says that nothing is impossible, and if he can create matter (what the machine does is even more complicated than that), he can certainly destroy it. Or are we led to believe Tesla probably had this planned, but then got attacked by Edison and had to give what he had to Angier before bolting?]]
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** The tank was 10 feet tall, and [[spoiler:Julia was drowning and had her hands and feet tied]]. How would unlocking the tank have helped? [[spoiler:Julia couldn't have helped herself out by that point]], and they would have needed to drag over a ladder for anyone else to do anything about it, assuming anyone was physically fit enough to even with a ladder.

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** The tank was 10 feet tall, and [[spoiler:Julia was drowning and had her hands and feet tied]]. How would unlocking the tank have helped? [[spoiler:Julia couldn't have helped herself out by that point]], and they would have needed to drag over a ladder for anyone else to do anything about it, assuming anyone was physically fit enough to even help with a ladder.
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** How many people would be willing to live with the knowledge of the existence [[spoiler: of a clone, <exactly> like you, that (and this is crucial) thinks that it <is> you, that would most likely want to take over your life? It's bad enough for twins to be living the life of one and half men, much less two (or three or more) identical people, who'd have to be <exceptionally> strong willed to accept such a fate. I certainly wouldn't.]]
*** Some people would, some people would not. It may depend on how much you enjoy science fiction :) Remember, the duplicate is ''exactly'' like you initially, so if you ''want'' to work with your duplicate, he'll want to work with you! But if you go in with an attitude of trying to "control" your duplicate or be the "real you", well, he'll want to control you too and take over "your" life.

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** * How many people would be willing to live with the knowledge of the existence [[spoiler: of a clone, <exactly> like you, that (and this is crucial) thinks that it <is> you, that would most likely want to take over your life? It's bad enough for twins to be living the life of one and half men, much less two (or three or more) identical people, who'd have to be <exceptionally> strong willed to accept such a fate. I certainly wouldn't.]]
*** ** Some people would, some people would not. It may depend on how much you enjoy science fiction :) Remember, the duplicate is ''exactly'' like you initially, so if you ''want'' to work with your duplicate, he'll want to work with you! But if you go in with an attitude of trying to "control" your duplicate or be the "real you", well, he'll want to control you too and take over "your" life.



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** Because it's freaking ''Nikola Tesla'' we're talking about. The guy ''is'' legend and thus fiction, even though he existed in real life.

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** Because it's freaking ''Nikola Tesla'' we're talking about. The guy ''is'' '''is''' legend and thus fiction, even though he existed in real life.
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* Why did the writer(s) use a real person (Tesla) as a character in an otherwise fictitious story, especially considering his main role was to invent a totally nonexistent machine? Wouldn't it have made more sense to create a fake character that was heavily based on Tesla?

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* Why did the writer(s) use a real person (Tesla) as a character in an otherwise fictitious story, especially considering his main role was to invent a totally nonexistent machine? Wouldn't it have made more sense to create a fake character that was heavily based on Tesla?Tesla?
** Because it's freaking ''Nikola Tesla'' we're talking about. The guy ''is'' legend and thus fiction, even though he existed in real life.
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** True, but what he meant is probably that he doesn't even know if he's "original" Angier or a copy of a copy of a copy...

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** True, but what he meant is probably that he doesn't even know if he's "original" Angier or a copy of a copy of a copy...copy...

* Why did the writer(s) use a real person (Tesla) as a character in an otherwise fictitious story, especially considering his main role was to invent a totally nonexistent machine? Wouldn't it have made more sense to create a fake character that was heavily based on Tesla?
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* Angier's statement that he never knew if he was going to be the person transported or the person drowned in the tank make no sense if you look at it from this perspective. When he first went through the machine, he killed the other version of himself. Whether that was the clone or the original doesn't matter. Afterwards, when he performed the trick, it doesn't make a difference which one drowned. Whichever one ended up transported would ''never'' have any memories of drowning, so from their perspective, they're ''always'' the one transported. ''Always.'' To him, the trick is perfectly safe for him, because he's ''never'' the one in the tank. He's transported, he never drowns, the alternate version drowns, and the show goes on. Sure, the one in the tank is going through a massive OhCrap, but the one transported thinks he's ''never'' the one to drown and that it's always the copy who drowns.

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* Angier's statement that he never knew if he was going to be the person transported or the person drowned in the tank make no sense if you look at it from this perspective. When he first went through the machine, he killed the other version of himself. Whether that was the clone or the original doesn't matter. Afterwards, when he performed the trick, it doesn't make a difference which one drowned. Whichever one ended up transported would ''never'' have any memories of drowning, so from their perspective, they're ''always'' the one transported. ''Always.'' To him, the trick is perfectly safe for him, because he's ''never'' the one in the tank. He's transported, he never drowns, the alternate version drowns, and the show goes on. Sure, the one in the tank is going through a massive OhCrap, but the one transported thinks he's ''never'' the one to drown and that it's always the copy who drowns.drowns.
** True, but what he meant is probably that he doesn't even know if he's "original" Angier or a copy of a copy of a copy...
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** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so well concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savvy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.

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** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so well concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savvy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.unbelievable.

* Angier's statement that he never knew if he was going to be the person transported or the person drowned in the tank make no sense if you look at it from this perspective. When he first went through the machine, he killed the other version of himself. Whether that was the clone or the original doesn't matter. Afterwards, when he performed the trick, it doesn't make a difference which one drowned. Whichever one ended up transported would ''never'' have any memories of drowning, so from their perspective, they're ''always'' the one transported. ''Always.'' To him, the trick is perfectly safe for him, because he's ''never'' the one in the tank. He's transported, he never drowns, the alternate version drowns, and the show goes on. Sure, the one in the tank is going through a massive OhCrap, but the one transported thinks he's ''never'' the one to drown and that it's always the copy who drowns.
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*** Angier has a perfect way to use a clone of himself: Have one at the Caldlow estate managing his business (which can be done without too much outside contact, probably), and another one making arrangements for his magic work. However, as others have said, his distrust of his clone plus desire to frame Borden make [[spoiler: killing the clones]] make sense.
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** The ''real'' question is, why wasn't the tank constructed to have some kind of sealable tap at the bottom, so they could drain the water out lickety-split in an emergency? They'd need to empty it out regularly in any case, because it'd be way, ''way'' too heavy to move easily when it's full of water. So why not include a big sluice valve in the tank's base?
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** Notice when Olivia tries to cosy up to him, he looks uncomfortable and rebuffs her slightly. So one twin was loyal in the sense that he never actually

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** Notice when Olivia tries to cosy up to him, he looks uncomfortable and rebuffs her slightly. So one twin was loyal in the sense that he never actuallyactually slept with both women.









* Possible PlotHole at Angier’s demonstration of “The Real Transported Man” for Mr Ackerman. When Angier steps into the machine, he simply vanishes and is transported as opposed to having copies of himself- as the machine did literally every other time it was used. How did this discrepancy come about?

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* Possible PlotHole at Angier’s demonstration of “The Real Transported Man” for Mr Mr. Ackerman. When Angier steps into the machine, he simply vanishes and is transported as opposed to having copies of himself- as the machine did literally every other time it was used. How did this discrepancy come about?



** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so well concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.

to:

** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so well concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savy savvy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so we'll concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.

to:

** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so we'll well concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.
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** I went back and rented the movie on Website/YouTube specifically to watch this scene, and the rest of the movie. I ''think'' the idea is that every time there's a bright flash of lightning that hides Angier dropping down into the tank, but... in the movie it's a really quick flash of light, and Hugh Jackman is 6'2"--if he dropped straight down from the stage, it would take longer than the blink of an eye to fully conceal him. It's especially apparent in the Ackerman demonstration, where we see the bottom of the machine the entire time and there's no trapdoor movement. He really does just blip out of existence. The only thing I can think of is that this might be a (very, ''very'' rare for Christopher Nolan) case of SpecialEffectsFailure.

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** I went back and rented the movie on Website/YouTube specifically to watch this scene, and the rest of the movie. I ''think'' the idea is that every time there's a bright flash of lightning that hides Angier dropping down into the tank, but... in the movie it's a really quick flash of light, and Hugh Jackman is 6'2"--if he dropped straight down from the stage, it would take longer than the blink of an eye to fully conceal him. It's especially apparent in the Ackerman demonstration, where we see the bottom of the machine the entire time and there's no trapdoor movement. He really does just blip out of existence. The only thing I can think of is that this might be a (very, ''very'' rare for Christopher Nolan) case of SpecialEffectsFailure.SpecialEffectsFailure.
** I think the implication here is that the original design included a very good and discrete trapdoor, one so we'll concealed that Angier seemingly just disappears into thin air. Then when Ackerman is visibly disturbed and asks for a little toning down, Angier starts using a more obvious and visible trapdoor, one that any savy viewer would notice, like Borden does at the first chance. People like to be amazed, but not terrified, and in this case us, the viewers, work as the public here, not liking a version of the trick that is so amazing it becomes unbelievable.
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*** Actually, ''years'' would be a more correct estimate - but only if it really was as simple a plan as that. In the 19th century, the most efficient ways to do what Cutter nedded to do would be 1) to publish an announcement in the newspaper - out of question for obvious reasons; 2) to employ an entire army of scouts - we know that Angier can manage that from the financial standpoint, but remember how Cutter was actually surprised that Root had refrained from blackmail for as long as he did; no way he was going to risk involving a large number of people. That leaves a pretty limited range of available actions for Cutter... But the ''third'' option is to look among the people who can be expected to be able to transform themselves into other people - that is, professional actors. Which is, judging by the fact that Root ''is'' an actor, precisely the route Cutter takes. He probably contacted all the performers he could find (which, with his connections in the theatrical world, is somwhat plausible), while not forgetting to ask them about their former colleagues - and probably one of those contacted pointed out Root to him. Still, it had to take a ''long'' time because it is unlikely that cautious Cutter would reveal that he was looking for a person resembling Angier - most likely he made some kind of unrelated excuse and then proceeded to individually look at every candidate.

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*** Actually, ''years'' would be a more correct estimate - but only if it really was as simple a plan as that. In the 19th century, the most efficient ways to do what Cutter nedded needed to do would be 1) to publish an announcement in the newspaper - out of question for obvious reasons; 2) to employ an entire army of scouts - we know that Angier can manage that from the financial standpoint, but remember how Cutter was actually surprised that Root had refrained from blackmail for as long as he did; no way he was going to risk involving a large number of people. That leaves a pretty limited range of available actions for Cutter... But the ''third'' option is to look among the people who can be expected to be able to transform themselves into other people - that is, professional actors. Which is, judging by the fact that Root ''is'' an actor, precisely the route Cutter takes. He probably contacted all the performers he could find (which, with his connections in the theatrical world, is somwhat plausible), while not forgetting to ask them about their former colleagues - and probably one of those contacted pointed out Root to him. Still, it had to take a ''long'' time because it is unlikely that cautious Cutter would reveal that he was looking for a person resembling Angier - most likely he made some kind of unrelated excuse and then proceeded to individually look at every candidate.
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*** There are several overlapping reasons for using the machine the way Angier does. For one, if I understand the movie correctly, the machine both teleports and clones its subject, each of which has the potential to fulfill one of Angier's goals: the teleportation means that he can preform the greatest magic trick ever seen on stage and beat Borden as an illusionist, and because the machine creates a clone each time, at some point Borden will be found with the dead body (because precisely 100 performances have been booked, Borden has to investigate within a short time frame), thus fulfilling Angier's desire for revenge on Borden for his wife's death. On another level, the reasons are prisoners' dilemma type logic: both the clone and the original think they are the original, know that the other thinks it's the original, and know that because the other has considered killing the other to cover up loose ends, it's in their best interests to figure out how to kill the other first. In order to prevent a scenario like this, Angier decides to have one of the copies die each time. Finally, the reasons are psychological: as the scenes with Root show, Angier feels that he has never received the acclaim from an audience he deserves, and doesn't want a "double", be it Root or a clone, to take the applause away from him. At the same time, Angier is conscious of how much his obsession has hurt others, and by drowning each time the same way his wife did, he can punish himself for his crimes an infinite number of times.

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*** There are several overlapping reasons for using the machine the way Angier does. For one, if I understand the movie correctly, the machine both teleports and clones its subject, each of which has the potential to fulfill one of Angier's goals: the teleportation means that he can preform perform the greatest magic trick ever seen on stage and beat Borden as an illusionist, and because the machine creates a clone each time, at some point Borden will be found with the dead body (because precisely 100 performances have been booked, Borden has to investigate within a short time frame), thus fulfilling Angier's desire for revenge on Borden for his wife's death. On another level, the reasons are prisoners' dilemma type logic: both the clone and the original think they are the original, know that the other thinks it's the original, and know that because the other has considered killing the other to cover up loose ends, it's in their best interests to figure out how to kill the other first. In order to prevent a scenario like this, Angier decides to have one of the copies die each time. Finally, the reasons are psychological: as the scenes with Root show, Angier feels that he has never received the acclaim from an audience he deserves, and doesn't want a "double", be it Root or a clone, to take the applause away from him. At the same time, Angier is conscious of how much his obsession has hurt others, and by drowning each time the same way his wife did, he can punish himself for his crimes an infinite number of times.
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*** Well, Angier in the end admits as much to Borden.

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*** Well, Angier in the end himself admits as much to Borden.Borden in the end.

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*** Well, Angier in the end admits as much to Borden.




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*** How do we know they didn't take turns on the diary though, like they took turns at everything else?

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