History Headscratchers / TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime

22nd Jun '17 1:56:49 PM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[RefugeInAudacity One of the cuccos was electric blue and pocket sized. Your argument is invalid.]]

to:

** [[RefugeInAudacity One of the cuccos was electric blue and pocket sized. Your argument is invalid.]]
invalid.



** Doesn't answer your bug, but I love the phrase King them around. I don't know why. I just do.



** I agree. Would you find it comfortable if a temple's music was "The Nicene Creed" or "The Holy Prayer" repeated over and over again in soft, subtle chant-like voices? In a temple with lava? I can see why some may find this offensive, as it has UnfortunateImplications.
** UnfortunateImplications pretty much sums it up. The temple is basically a prison, after all.

to:

** I agree. Would you find it comfortable if a temple's music was "The Nicene Creed" or "The Holy Prayer" repeated over and over again in soft, subtle chant-like voices? In a temple with lava? I can see why some may find this offensive, as it has UnfortunateImplications.
** UnfortunateImplications pretty much sums it up.
offensive.The temple is basically a prison, after all.



* So... in ''Ocarina of Time'', it was [[MythologyGag a secret to everybody]] that Link was really a Hylian and not a Kokiri. How much of a secret was it really? Presumably Mido didn't know, but Saria seemed to suspect it. And if it hadn't been for Ganondorf, Link would have found out anyway in a few years once he started to go through puberty. So, why didn't the Deku Tree tell him the truth before dying? And were there Kokiri around from the time he was brought there who would know?
** This sort of bugged me too. I mean, the Kokiri have been around since forever, surely you'd think they'd remember a baby being brought to the village some years ago and growing with them. And surely Link himself would remember growing all these years among kids who always seemed to be older than him but never seemed to age.

to:

* So... in ''Ocarina of Time'', it was [[MythologyGag a secret to everybody]] that Link was really a Hylian and not a Kokiri. How much of a secret was it really? Presumably Mido didn't know, but Saria seemed to suspect it. And if it hadn't been for Ganondorf, Link would have found out anyway in a few years once he started to go through puberty. So, why didn't the Deku Tree tell him the truth before dying? And were there Kokiri around from the time he was brought there who would know?
** This sort of bugged me too. I mean, the
know? he Kokiri have been around since forever, surely you'd think they'd remember a baby being brought to the village some years ago and growing with them. And surely Link himself would remember growing all these years among kids who always seemed to be older than him but never seemed to age.



** To disguise the Hero of Time as a Kokiri and protect him until it was time to fulfill his role as [[TheChosenOne]].

to:

** To disguise the Hero of Time as a Kokiri and protect him until it was time to fulfill his role as [[TheChosenOne]].TheChosenOne.



** Not really helpful, but: WAT. I only [[FridgeHorror just now realized]] he isn't in the future...who said he never came home one day?



* Okay, so a [[InfinityPlusOneSword sword]] that a giant Goron can make in four days (if I remember correctly) is more powerful than the Master Sword against everything except against Ganondorf. Why is this sword not blessed into a new Master Sword by the sages after OOT? If it was, the old Master Sword would be almost useless next to it, and all enemies could be mowed down way faster by any new heros that show up. In fact, since they only take four days to make, why doesn't Big Goron make an armory's worth, and have the sages bless them each so that Hyrule has a ton of them? I think Hyrule could have been safe for a while longer.

to:

* Okay, so a [[InfinityPlusOneSword sword]] that a giant Goron can make in four days (if I remember correctly) is more powerful than the Master Sword against everything except against Ganondorf. Why is this sword not blessed into a new Master Sword by the sages after OOT? If it was, the old Master Sword would be almost useless next to it, and all enemies could be mowed down way faster by any new heros that show up. In fact, since they only take four days to make, why doesn't Big Goron make an armory's worth, and have the sages bless them each so that Hyrule has a ton of them? I think Hyrule could have been safe for a while longer.



** The Biggoron Sword has a serious drawback, though -- it's heavy enough to require a dual grip, which leaves its wielder incapable of using a shield at the same time. Considering how many enemies in-universe can exploit Link's open guard, it makes sense that the Master Sword would a blade that could be wielded one-handed.

to:

** The Biggoron Sword has a serious drawback, though -- it's heavy enough to require a dual grip, which leaves its wielder incapable of using a shield at the same time. Considering how many enemies in-universe can exploit Link's open guard, it makes sense that the Master Sword would be a blade that could be wielded one-handed.



** Not to mention, it says right in the name that Ganondorf's piece is the one that gives you power. If each piece of the Triforce gave its wielder godly...power, giving them separate names wouldn't make any sense. In any case, Ganondorf is shown to have a sizable amount of power before claiming the Triforce, [[CurbStompBattle Curb Stomping]] you in your first encounter and generally messing Hyrule up. The Triforce of Power merely enhanced that to insanely [[MeaningfulName powerful]] degrees. As for Link and Zelda, while it takes courage to fight off a giant one-eyed spider, by the end Link is facing off against, well, the bearer of the Triforce of Power. That takes a special kind of courage, one could say. Zelda, meanwhile, may make a couple TooDumbToLive decisions over the course of the story, but she seems to know the most about the Triforce and cosmic law, and ultimately awakens as the Seventh Sage, proceeding to seal Ganon away until the events of ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker Wind Waker]]'', so she's not lacking in the Wisdom department under that light. Point being, leave the power to the bearer of Power.

to:

** Not to mention, it says right in the name that Ganondorf's piece is the one that gives you power. If each piece of the Triforce gave its wielder godly...power, giving them separate names wouldn't make any sense. In any case, Ganondorf is shown to have a sizable amount of power before claiming the Triforce, [[CurbStompBattle Curb Stomping]] you Link in your their first encounter and generally messing Hyrule up. The Triforce of Power merely enhanced that to insanely [[MeaningfulName powerful]] degrees. As for Link and Zelda, while it takes courage to fight off a giant one-eyed spider, by the end Link is facing off against, well, the bearer of the Triforce of Power. That takes a special kind of courage, one could say. Zelda, meanwhile, may make a couple TooDumbToLive decisions over the course of the story, but she seems to know the most about the Triforce and cosmic law, and ultimately awakens as the Seventh Sage, proceeding to seal Ganon away until the events of ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker Wind Waker]]'', so she's not lacking in the Wisdom department under that light. Point being, leave the power to the bearer of Power.



* Despite having all of these powers of the Sages and being an ActionGirl when disguised as Sheik, she acts as a damsel in distress when you're escaping the castle and fighting Ganon. Wouldn't this be a case of the DistressBall?

to:

* Despite having all of these powers of the Sages and being an ActionGirl when disguised as Sheik, she acts as a damsel in distress when you're escaping the castle and fighting Ganon. Wouldn't this be a case of the DistressBall?
22nd Jun '17 9:44:08 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[/folder]]



** The entire world is dessert? Niiiiiiiiiice.
*** Oops. Typo. My bad.... And now, I have to imagine some Gerudo women, drowning in Mouse au chocolate... well, THAT'S nice! XD
*** Gerudo+ dessert+ Zelda+ horny viewer: Official Zelda Women's Jello Wrestling game. Fanart please!



** That bitch...suddenly, I strongly approve of the fact that Bongo Bongo probably killed her.
** Wait wha?, look, there's a difference between being slapped by someone who just wants to call Impa out on that (not opening the boss door?) and being slapped by friggin ''Bongo-Bongo''.

to:

** That bitch...suddenly, I strongly approve of the fact that Bongo Bongo probably killed her.
** Wait wha?, look, there's a difference between being slapped by someone who just wants to call Impa out on that (not opening the boss door?) and being slapped by friggin ''Bongo-Bongo''.

22nd Jun '17 7:52:12 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** And to me, it brings up NightmareFuel. Rauru has been stripping Young Link ''naked'', who knows how often. And he's a priest. There cannot be ''any'' good implications to that.
** Oh my god.... ''Link:'' "Why do I have a cuckoo-shaped tattoo on my butt?" ''Rauru:'' "Because I was bored."
** Thank you for putting that disgusting image in my head....
** [[ComicallyMissingThePoint Wait, how did Link see that it was there?]]
** Need BrainBleach, above troper?
** [[BrainBleach Ahem.]] At the OP: Link was able to do backflips before he matured.


Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Marathon Guy]]
22nd Jun '17 7:13:53 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** I think what the OP means is that the Ocarina in MM allows you to actually go back in time, but in [=OoT=] it has no such time-travelling powers, because THAT just bugs me...

to:

** I think what the OP means is that the Ocarina in MM allows you to actually go back in time, but in [=OoT=] it has no such time-travelling powers, because THAT just bugs me...powers.



** See, my problem with the whole "Link went to the future and saw what happened, so he was able to go back in time and expose Ganondorf before it happened" really bugs me. If all Link needed to do was tell someone that Ganondorf was an evil man, there would have been no reason to wake the sages and seal him away. In fact, there was enough proof in the present that he was an evil man because of all the stuff he was doing (Killing the Deku Tree, attempting to kill Jabu, starving the Gorons). The way I see it, when Ganondorf was sealed away by the sages, he was sealed away through all of time... the power of the sages transcended that of the very flow of time and basically removed Ganondorf from ALL of time in a "void" of sorts. So when Link returns to his child state, Ganondorf isn't there because he's been removed from time altogether. It's as if he never existed.

to:

** See, my problem with the whole "Link went to the future and saw what happened, so he was able to go back in time and expose Ganondorf before it happened" really bugs me.happened". If all Link needed to do was tell someone that Ganondorf was an evil man, there would have been no reason to wake the sages and seal him away. In fact, there was enough proof in the present that he was an evil man because of all the stuff he was doing (Killing the Deku Tree, attempting to kill Jabu, starving the Gorons). The way I see it, when Ganondorf was sealed away by the sages, he was sealed away through all of time... the power of the sages transcended that of the very flow of time and basically removed Ganondorf from ALL of time in a "void" of sorts. So when Link returns to his child state, Ganondorf isn't there because he's been removed from time altogether. It's as if he never existed.



** [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/Hyrulean_Civil_War This]] offers some interesting information. It does state that presumably, the Zora tribe and the King of Hyrule formed an alliance. It also states that all the races are unified under the Hyrulean Banner, so they aren't as "fragmented" and isolated as we may think. I will accept that an offered theory (read: not exactly canon) from the page states that Ganondorf fought with the King during the civil war, so showing Ganondorf offer his allegiance to the King is not unexpected. However, it still bugs me that as these other events were going on (especially if the king had an alliance with the Zoras) that no one thought to mention it to the king.

to:

** [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/Hyrulean_Civil_War This]] offers some interesting information. It does state that presumably, the Zora tribe and the King of Hyrule formed an alliance. It also states that all the races are unified under the Hyrulean Banner, so they aren't as "fragmented" and isolated as we may think. I will accept that an offered theory (read: not exactly canon) from the page states that Ganondorf fought with the King during the civil war, so showing Ganondorf offer his allegiance to the King is not unexpected. However, it still bugs me that as As these other events were going on (especially if the king had an alliance with the Zoras) that no one thought to mention it to the king.



* A minor complaint, but it bugs me nonetheless. The Golden Gauntlets allow Link to lift a massive stone pillar that's easily four or five times his size and throw it over his shoulder, several feet behind him, no less, with little effort. So why does he still need two hands to hold the Biggoron's Sword?

to:

* A minor complaint, but it bugs me nonetheless. The Golden Gauntlets allow Link to lift a massive stone pillar that's easily four or five times his size and throw it over his shoulder, several feet behind him, no less, with little effort. So why does he still need two hands to hold the Biggoron's Sword?



** I guess what really bugs me is that Link was specifically sealed in sleep because he was apparently too young to be the Hero of Time who could wield the Master Sword...But unless, as suggested, Rauru aged his mind, as well, this means all it took to be the hero was a more adult ''body'', which seems silly. Also, if Rauru ''did'' have the power to age up Link's mind, this begs the question of why he had to be put to sleep for 7 years anyway.

to:

** I guess what really bugs me is that ** Link was specifically sealed in sleep because he was apparently too young to be the Hero of Time who could wield the Master Sword...But unless, as suggested, Rauru aged his mind, as well, this means all it took to be the hero was a more adult ''body'', which seems silly. Also, if Rauru ''did'' have the power to age up Link's mind, this begs the question of why he had to be put to sleep for 7 years anyway.
17th Jun '17 4:02:00 PM Dere
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[folder:Sheik's gender]]

* You know what bugs me? I wish, more than anything, that someone had thought to just make Sheik visibly female from the beginning. It would have undone all the unfortunate implications that came with the Zelda/sheik debate. No Yaoi fangirls [[FanDumb pretending they are]] [[CanonDefilement two different characters]]. Also, Miyamoto had the right idea in regards to making Zelda more than a damsel in distress, but it wasn't taken far enough, hence she becomes a damsel in distress, which people absolutely hate. This leads to the disconnect between her alter ego, and her true self. If Sheik had looked like a girl from the beginning, and helped out in the final battle a little more, think of all the troubles, all the arguments that could have been rightfully beaten into the ground before they even started. Sure, it would have buggered the Temple of Time reveal, but that's a small price to pay in my opinion.
** You really wish what was ([[ItWasHisSled in its time]]) an excellent plot twist in what is widely considered one of the best games of all time had been ruined just to stifle some arguments in the then-future/now-present fanon? GetAHoldOfYourselfMan.
** It is a great twist. It was the first time Zelda stepped out of her previous role. And even if Nintendo could have done more, it led to the awesome battles of Wind waker, Twilight Princess, and (even though I haven't got to that part yet) Spirit Tracks. It probably bugs me so much because I really hate [[BerserkButton Yaoi]]. You're right about it probably not being worth it, but in my defence, this is the "It just bugs me section." This is why it's here.
** [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement It's also here for people to try to address those concerns...]]
** Stating that Shiek was a female in game ''wouldn't'' have ruined the reveal at all, remember most gamers didn't even ''know'' there was a twist, so why suspect anything? Would YOU automatically think that delicate princess Zelda could possibly be a disguised stealth warrior (with different eye and skin color) completely out of the blue, ''just'' cause she's female? That would be like thinking that Nabooru was for some reason a disguised Zelda ...because she's a girl ...It's a great twist, and would have been '''no less surprising''' whether Sheik was stated to be male or female (but having her male has some UnfortunateImplications...)
** "Would YOU automatically think..." yes. Yes I would. Because of the law of conservation of detail and the fact that Zelda was a prominent blond female who was unaccounted for, as well as knowledge that secret identity reveal twists are a common event in fiction. The tan and the red eyes helped hide her identity a bit, but the lion's share of the illusion was created by depicting Sheik as a male, such that many people would never even consider the possibility that "he" was Zelda until it was sprung on them from nowhere.
** To cement that point, I was one of many people who instantly guessed Tetra, from the very moment you see her hanging unconscious from a tree branch, was Zelda. Tan, blonde hair, different clothes, and it didn't matter.
** While, of course, it's more obvious in hindsight, assuming immediately that Tetra is Zelda ''just because she's a blond female'' is like saying that ''Aryll'' must be Zelda (and you even see her first thing in Wind Waker!). Yes, making Sheik look more guy-ish helped, but having her look more feminine wouldn't have been ''that'' blatant either... I mean, come on, a good chunk of the supporting cast in this game was composed of females anyway!
** I agree with the plot twist bit; but if you ask me, it would have been better if Sheik looked more [[AmbiguousGender ambiguous]] (due to the fandom's [[BrokenBase current reaction]], they might have regretted making her look [[UnfortunateImplications too masculine]]), Navi [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] the sudden voice change during the Bongo Bongo scene (some people tend to ignore that during their pro-male side debates), and Sheik actually unmasked herself in front of Link (it wasn't possible in the original due to the N64's limitations; besides, isn't it obvious why she was covering her face in the first place?). Let's hope they address all these issues in the remake. We don't want Miyamoto to {{Troll}} us with "No reveal for you, [[BrokenBase so keep fighting]]", do we? Also, there's the issue of [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Zelda's role after the reveal]], which add more to Sheik's UnfortunateImplications, that they also need to address for the remake.
** Having her unmask really wouldn't have worked well in the scene. The sudden transformation makes for a much more dramatic reveal than having her remove her headgear and wipe off the makeup (Sheik has a noticeably different skin colour from Zelda). Also, at this point in the game we still hadn't seen adult Zelda; if we just saw her face then at best the players would notice that Sheik was female, having her change her clothes as well makes her easily recognisable as Zelda.
** Listen to her cries as the spirit that escapes from the well throws her around. Definitely feminine. Now you can argue that Zelda's a very good actress. And you can argue that perhaps she cast a low-level glamour charm on herself to alter how people perceive her physical form. But her voice under deep distress? No, that was a feminine voice. Listen [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KNPzWR-QqM&t=1m2s here]].
** New troper here; I always subscribed to the Peter Pan theory. That is to say, Peter Pan is a boy but he's traditionally played by a girl. So whether he was physically male or not is irrelevant because he was a character Zelda was playing. At least, that was my take on it.
[[/folder]]
2nd Jun '17 11:41:14 AM Lego3400
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

***Doesn't work. You cannot enter the Lost Woods via Goron City or Vise-Versa until you have Saria's song. The path is blocked on the Goron city side via bombable rocks. You can't destroy them until you have the Goron Bracelet to pick Bomb Flowers or have bombs (which you need the bracelet to obtain). For referance you can't also can't use the Zora's Domain shortcut until you have the Silver Scale, which you get in the city.
25th May '17 2:51:38 PM H.N.Levian
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Also, Ganondorf ''planning'' to commit a coup d'etat and steal the throne ''was'' in fact a crime in and of itself, in the same way that you'll get arrested for bringing a bomb to an airport even if you haven't detonated it yet.
16th Apr '17 10:07:14 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Ganondorf may have been GenreSavvy enough to either kill the messenger before he got there, or fabricate it all as a whole lot of hogwash aimed to make him look like the bad guy.

to:

** Ganondorf may have been GenreSavvy enough to either kill killed the messenger before he got there, or fabricate it all as a whole lot of hogwash aimed to make him look like the bad guy.



* during the DancePartyEnding, I noticed that the bonfire has the same colors as the Poe Sisters' flames. What's up with that? Was that a coincidence? Did they revive and do a HeelFaceTurn? Or is there some other reason behind it that I'm not getting?

to:

* during During the DancePartyEnding, I noticed that the bonfire has the same colors as the Poe Sisters' flames. What's up with that? Was that a coincidence? Did they revive and do a HeelFaceTurn? Or is there some other reason behind it that I'm not getting?
14th Apr '17 2:37:46 PM H.N.Levian
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** The desert in ocarina of Time has a strong association with spirits. You follow a Poe through the Haunted Wasteland to get to the Desert Colossus where the Spirit Temple is, the desert contains multiple fairy fountains, the inside of the Temple is full of pots and other random things that throw themselves at you (the implication being that it's being done by the spirits of the temple), then there's the recurring sorcery motif (related because magic has historically been often interpreted as being done by summoning spirits to do your work for you). The Temple itself, as mentioned above, has the strongest direct relationship to a specific guardian deity/spirit, being literally modelled after the Goddess of the Sand.
8th Apr '17 9:29:03 PM QuarrelsomeChevon
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder: Great Fairies]]
* From an in-universe perspective, what's the point of Zelda's Lullaby being required to summon the Great Fairies at their fountains? Is the game implying that only royal family members and their messengers are permitted to receive blessings from the fairies? If not, how is anyone else supposed to do so?
This list shows the last 10 events of 513. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime