History Headscratchers / TheElderScrollsVSkyrim

19th Mar '17 7:14:39 PM Zaptech
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** Also, suggesting to a Nord that they worship Talos in the same way that a filthy ''Dunmer'' worships his ancestors will likely end with said Nord driving a fist through your face for the insult to him, his traditions, and his gods.
17th Mar '17 3:25:50 PM Zaptech
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*** The Daedra / Hagraven worshipping predates the Markath Incident by several ''millenias''. See "The Legend of Red Eagle" which mentions Hagravens involvement with the Reachmen in a manner very similar to what we see today, during the times of the ''Alessian Empire''. Daedra Worship and the Hagravens have been a part of the men of the Reach's society for ages. While there's no doubt they are more civilized when not forced to survive in ruins on the run from Nords who want to kill or enslave them, even the Civilized Reachmen are very different from High Rock Bretons. The civilized Reachmen are more those who have modernized and moved on from their people's old ways, while the Forsworn and their ilks follow the "Old Ways", and it's a tradition that goes back ''long ago''.
*** Honestly, I see the Forsworn encountered in Skyrim as being disenfranchised twenty-somethings who have run away from Nordic "oppression" and thrown their lot in with Madanach's hordes as having mostly based their ideas about the Old Ways and their ancestors off Nordic propaganda. Actual Reachmen don't dress in odd scraps of clothing and worship Hagravens, and are instead more like historically-inspired Caledonian/Briton facsimiles who worship the traditional ancient Breton pantheon, and they look down upon the fur and bone guys as posers. Of course, that was before Online came along and blew that theory out of the water... But I don't see Online as canon.

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*** ** The Daedra / Hagraven worshipping predates the Markath Incident by several ''millenias''. See "The Legend of Red Eagle" which mentions Hagravens involvement with the Reachmen in a manner very similar to what we see today, during the times of the ''Alessian Empire''. Daedra Worship and the Hagravens have been a part of the men of the Reach's society for ages. While there's no doubt they are more civilized when not forced to survive in ruins on the run from Nords who want to kill or enslave them, even the Civilized Reachmen are very different from High Rock Bretons. The civilized Reachmen are more those who have modernized and moved on from their people's old ways, while the Forsworn and their ilks follow the "Old Ways", and it's a tradition that goes back ''long ago''.
*** Honestly, I see the Forsworn encountered in Skyrim as being disenfranchised twenty-somethings who have run away from Nordic "oppression" and thrown their lot in with Madanach's hordes as having mostly based their ideas about the Old Ways and their ancestors off Nordic propaganda. Actual Reachmen don't dress in odd scraps of clothing and worship Hagravens, and are instead more like historically-inspired Caledonian/Briton facsimiles who worship the traditional ancient Breton pantheon, and they look down upon the fur and bone guys as posers. Of course, that was before Online came along and blew that theory out of the water... But I don't see Online as canon.
ago''.
17th Mar '17 3:03:14 PM Zaptech
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** No, the Towers are mentioned in the games, and the world literally didn't exist in anything like it's current form before Direnni Tower was constructed by the Aedra. [[http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers There's an entire article discussing the Towers on the UESP and how they appear in game canon.]]
17th Mar '17 1:13:24 PM Zaptech
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*** In short, Mora has the library of everything this ''is'' or ''was''. Jyggalag has the library of everything that ''will be''.
13th Mar '17 5:04:58 PM Temporary14
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** Also, note the essential difference between the two libraries. Jyggalag's library was filled with his logical predictions of the result of every action, except when an individual defies their fate. (In other words, a Great Big Library of Destiny/Causality.) Mora's library is his attempt to acquire all knowledge that already exists, from "how to skin a horker" to the words of the most powerful Thu'ums. Both became very powerful because of their great knowledge, but they got and used it in very different ways that reflects their natures.
9th Mar '17 8:11:37 AM Zaptech
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[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordat]]
So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. ''If'' Ulfric still tried to fight it would be nakedly obvious he only wanted to be king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.

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[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordat]]

[[folder:The White Gold Concordat]]
*
So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. ''If'' Ulfric still tried to fight it would be nakedly obvious he only wanted to be king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.ally.
** That's probably already in the White-Gold Concordat. The Thalmor want no worship of Talos at all, and ancestor worship still grants him a degree of power. Also, worshiping Talos as an ancestor would probably not sit well with his worshippers in the first place; you can't just substitute traditions from an entirely different religion like Lego blocks. Using a Morrowind tradition to venerate Talos would likely enrage Talos worshippers even more than enforcing covert Talos worship, simply because that's not how the Divines are venerated and it would be viewed as an insult to the gods.
25th Feb '17 10:02:34 AM Aribter-Nelson
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So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. If Ulfric still tried to fight it would nakedly obvious he only wanted to be king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.

to:

So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. If ''If'' Ulfric still tried to fight it would be nakedly obvious he only wanted to be king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.
25th Feb '17 9:59:37 AM Aribter-Nelson
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[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordant]]
So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance. If Ulfric still tried to fight it would nakedly be only to be king, if the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was worth fighting a war for, well then the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about that; Hello massive new ally.

to:

[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordant]]
[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordat]]
So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance. grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. If Ulfric still tried to fight it would nakedly be obvious he only wanted to be king, if king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was worth fighting a war for, illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well then the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about that; inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.
25th Feb '17 3:32:40 AM Aribter-Nelson
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder:TheWhiteGoldConcordant]]
So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance. If Ulfric still tried to fight it would nakedly be only to be king, if the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was worth fighting a war for, well then the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about that; Hello massive new ally.
[[/folder]]
17th Feb '17 10:32:59 AM Zaptech
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** The Thalmor Embassy is still an ''embassy'', and Stormcloak Skyrim can't quite afford to fight the Thalmor at the moment. Shutting down the Embassy would be an act of war and the Thalmor would immediately invade. They can't afford to shut it down just yet.
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