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*** Is not the same discussion, since here its stating about ''mortal'' influence and low level spirits/supernatural entities; associations like the Venatori Umbrorum or regional creatures that should exist, in one way or another from some of the oldest parts of the world. Or that the Wizards from the Asian bloque don't show a lot of influence in the books (but could it be the case of protagonist provincialism) and that most actions and World wide conflicts come from the Western part of the planet. About the Faeries: isn't the closeness to the mortal world and incorporation of mythologies in fact just {{Fanon}} speculation. Don't remember had ever read a post where [[WordOfGod Butcher]] say it was so and it was stated that while there are thousands of races of Faeries, it doesn't mean all the spirits are Faeries or in their circles. Take for example the [[MagicalNativeAmerican Naagloshii]], [[EvilDetectingDog mouse]] or the [[JapaneseMythology Tengu]] commanded by Ebenezar in Changes. Also, Ferrovax was never stated to be from the Faerie race and was deemed from the ChineseMythology (from the [[BuffySpeak Space-Dragon-Gods-Immortal-dudes]] I think).
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*** Is not the same discussion, since here its stating about ''mortal'' influence and low level spirits/supernatural entities; associations like the Venatori Umbrorum or regional creatures that should exist, in one way or another from some of the oldest parts of the world. Or that the Wizards from the Asian bloque don't show a lot of influence in the books (but could it be the case of protagonist provincialism) and that most actions and World wide conflicts come from the Western part of the planet. About the Faeries: isn't the closeness to the mortal world and incorporation of mythologies in fact just {{Fanon}} speculation. Don't remember had ever read a post where [[WordOfGod Butcher]] say it was so and it was stated that while there are thousands of races of Faeries, it doesn't mean all the spirits are Faeries or in their circles. Take for example the [[MagicalNativeAmerican Naagloshii]], [[EvilDetectingDog mouse]] or the [[JapaneseMythology [[Myth/JapaneseMythology Tengu]] commanded by Ebenezar in Changes. Also, Ferrovax was never stated to be from the Faerie race and was deemed from the ChineseMythology (from the [[BuffySpeak Space-Dragon-Gods-Immortal-dudes]] I think).
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misuse of I Got Better
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** I don't understand where this whole argument came from. The baby was in trouble, but the fact remains that he '''didn't''' die, which seemed to be the original point. It somehow got on the subject of baptism, which doesn't have anything to do with the baby surviving. The baby survived. Part of his life-force had been eaten by the Nightmare, and when the Nightmare was destroyed, he [[IGotBetter got better.]]
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** I don't understand where this whole argument came from. The baby was in trouble, but the fact remains that he '''didn't''' die, which seemed to be the original point. It somehow got on the subject of baptism, which doesn't have anything to do with the baby surviving. The baby survived. Part of his life-force had been eaten by the Nightmare, and when the Nightmare was destroyed, he [[IGotBetter got better.]]
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: The Fairy Donut]]
* I don't get it. Harry asks for a donut and Summer stops chasing him?
* It's more complicated than that, and it's explained explicitly how and why it works in the exact same exchange where Harry makes the request. The whole logic of it is literally right there.
* You have to remember that the Fae are all bound by rules and obligations. Harry is acting as a servant of Winter in the current case, and so Summer, being Winters rival, is sending people to stop him. The case is nearly at an end, and once it's over Harry will no longer be acting for Winter and Summer won't be required to fight him. The Gruff that shows up doesn't really want to kill Harry, he's just acting under orders. And Summer owes Harry one favor. So Harry uses his favor to ask the Gruff to get him a donut. The Gruff, being a fae, is obligated to honour the request, and obtaining the donut occupies him long enough that Harry can finish the case. By the time he comes back with Harry's donut, the Gruff is no longer required to kill him and just goes home.
* To explain it in detail, since the obvious explanation in the book apparently flew over your head: The entire conflict between Summer and Winter is caused by the fact that Mab wants to free Marcone, and Titania operates in opposition to Mab because that's how Summer and Winter roll. Mab chooses an Emissary, in this case Harry. The gruffs go after Harry because Titania orders them to take out the Winter Emissary. The gruffs view Harry as a WorthyOpponent and don't like the idea of going after him. When Harry gets on the island, he frees Marcone, ending the entire spat between Summer and Winter. However, because Eldest Gruff is still on the field, and so is Harry, then they have to hash it out until Harry can get off the island. When the confrontation occurs, Harry uses the boon Lily gave him back in ''Proven Guilty'', which is a boon that exists in the service of the whole Summer Court. Harry can't get Eldest Gruff to back down from killing him, but he can use the boon to make Eldest Gruff adjust his priorities to go fetch a donut first before Eldest would kill him. Eldest takes the boon, and then takes his sweet time getting a donut for Harry, giving him time to get off the island and thus allowing the gruffs to end the conflict peacefully. It's a LoopholeAbuse of the finest sort, and exactly what the faeries get a kick out of, which is why it works.\\
'''Technically'', Summer stopped chasing Harry the moment he freed Marcone, but because Eldest was on the island (drawn by the fire Harry used on Tessa) with Harry, they were required to duke it out until Harry could actually quit the field of battle (read: get the hell away from the island). Harry's act of using his boon to make Eldest go fetch a donut for him simply kept Eldest from killing him as he was required until Harry could escape, at which point any obligations toward violence had been concluded.\\
It doesn't hurt that Eldest really doesn't want to kill Harry, so he's going to delay as long as possible until Harry is gone from the island, at which point it's over.
--> '''Eldest Gruff:''' The confounding enchanment thou didst employ upon our tracking spell was most effacious.
** Not the clearest syntax for the modern reader. Unnecessary rudeness aside (or did I misunderstand the purpose of this page, too?), I suppose I could have been clearer with my original question. From later mentions in the series (''Turn Coat'' and ''Changes'') it seemed like donuts were some type of in-joke. From the explainations here, it sounds like Harry started the [[MemeticMutation joke.]] That part was what [[{{Headscratchers}} bugged me.]] I thought it had originated in a short story, but I guess it was here (''Small Favor'').
*** It became a joke because [[ItMakesSenseInContext people who weren't there]] ''would'' think it was silly for Harry to ask for a doughnut. (As an aside, why do you have a quote there about the confounding enchantement? That had zero to do with the doughnut request, unless you consider Elder Gruff's respect for Harry's ability to tie in, which I suppose it did in a sense. As an earlier troper said, Elder didn't really want to kill Harry, allowing them to reach the 'errand' compromise.)
[[/folder]]
[[folder: "Mountain Ice Demon" ]]
* In ''Changes'', Esmerelda says something like 'Oh! It cheated! It brought a demon of its own! A mountain ice demon from the Land of Dreams!" What was she talking about?
** She was referring to Mouse, I am pretty sure. He is Tibetan in origin (thus, "mountain ice" and "Land of Dreams," unless the latter refers to the Nevernever), and as confirmed later in the book, he is much, much more than a dog. The only other allies of Harry's present were Thomas and Molly, and it couldn't have been referring to either of them, plus the three of them were closing in thanks to Mouse following Harry's scent.
** Yeah, she was talking about Mouse. Ancient Mai confirmed in ''Turn Coat'' that Mouse is an actual Foo Dog, not just a scion of one, thus the "demon" part.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Vadderung's Secretaries]]
* What exactly are they?
** Well they were referred to as "H" and "M" , so Huggin and Munnin, Odin's ravens observation and memory (notice "M" reminds him of the meeting)from the norse legend.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Six Necromancers]]
* Okay, i don't know how i don't get this, maybe i read too fast and missed it, but in ''Dead Beat'' were told there are supposed to be six necromancers in Chicago. Who are they? I can only see four, Cowl, Grevane, Corpsetaker, and Kumori, and ''maybe'' Cassius. But even if you stretch to include him, that's only five. So who the hell is the sixth? Is it the body Corpsetaker was using before taking that coed? Is it just supposed to be Kemmler even though he's dead? Is it supposed to be Harry after he resurrected Sue? Is it Mavra? This ''really'' bugs me. Harry comes out and says there are six necromancers, is that just an incorrect assumption he made after using that spell to find six uses of necromancy? Or did i just completely miss a character somewhere?
* The Corpsetaker had a ghoul in his/her employ, so if you count Cassius, I suppose the Ghoul counts too. When does Dresden say six of them, again? If it's before he's ID'd those four, he might've mistated, yeah.
** It's a mistake on the printing on the back of the book. Harry was basing the "six necromancers" idea on the fact that Morty's ghosts were able to pick up six points of necromancy-based energy in Chicago. There are actually only four, with a pair of drummers to back them up.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Winter Knight durability]]
* Okay, so Harry gets shot, and wizards aren't much sturdier than normal people. But he's also the ''Winter Knight'', and the knights ''are'' much sturdier than normal people. Specifically, they're enough sturdier that Slate survived being ''struck by lighting''.
** ....and? Slate survived being shocked by magical lightning, which faeries and those being empowered by them are more resistant towards. Harry, on the other hand, got ''shot through the freaking heart'' by a military-grade sniper round. Getting shot in the chest by a sniper round that punches clean through your heart is going to kill you, Winter Knight or no. Winter Knights aren't Superman. Being the Winter Knight doesn't make you immune to bullets, especially the kind of bullets that do massive internal organ trauma like those of most sniper rifles. There would be an inconsistency if, say, Slate had been shot and suffered comparable trauma to his body, but he hasn't.
** And besides, surviving a lightning strike isn't a superhuman feat. People in real life have survived being struck by lightning.
** Hell, the fact that Harry didn't ''die instantly'' when the sniper round punched through him, but had time to be confused and linger for a bit before toppling off the boat, is a testament to how tough he'd have to be thanks to being the Winter Knight. Sniper rifles, by design, tend to be both high-powered and high-caliber. Getting shot through the chest by one would kill a human outright, not give them enough time to stop and stare at their own blood splatter for a few seconds and wonder where the red paint came from.
** I don't think the round that hit Harry was high powered and high caliber. It seemed to be a subsonic sound, since Harry never mentions hearing the ballistic crack. It was just a straight shot to the heart. Being extra tough doesn't mean your skin is bulletproof.
*** Er, no. Most modern weapons fire bullets at supersonic speeds. At the distance handguns and normal rifles are used at, the difference in time between the bullet reaching you and the sound reaching you would be so small that you'd think it was simultaneous. With sniper rifles, however, the shooter can be so far away that you die before you hear the sound, which is what happened to Harry.
*** Yes, ''most'' modern weapons do. I was saying that since Harry never mentions hearing the ballistic crack--even when it takes him a few seconds of stumbling after being shot--''this particular'' rifle was probably using subsonic ammunition. Yes, a sniper ''can'' be so far away that the sound never gets to you, but this one didn't have to be, and depending on the topography and building layout of Chicago, it might not've been feasible.
** Nope, it was a high-powered round. In ''Aftermath'', Murphy notes that the round fired went through Harry and both walls of the boat to hit the lake. You'd need a pretty powerful round to do that. Harry probably didn't hear the crack because by the time the he would have heard it, he was dying of blood loss.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Madrigal's weapon of choice]]
* I know that Madrigal's considered pretty stupid by a lot character's in White Knight and Proven Guilty ,but I'd never pegged him as plain suicidal. I understand that he was unprepared for a duel in the first place and that he had to make do with what was in the armory,but if you can get your hands on Anti Magic armbands then why just pick a spear?. Especially since he never was able to get in range for a proper thrust or throw considering his opponents could easily destroy it mid-flight.
** Probably it's just that it was the melee weapon he felt he was best with. Ramirez went into the fight with a sword, after all, and he had about as much opportunity to use it as Madrigal did his spear. Also, thrown weapons were fairly effective when you consider the Malvora landed at least two knives in Ramirez's leg and gut.
** His weapon is less of a "stupid" choice and more like the ''only'' choice. It's the weapon and gear he had in his room at the estate. If he'd kept his assault rifle stashed in the estate they probably would have brought that as well. Besides, a spear is a pretty good weapon, especially if you're outfitted with gear that nullifies magic, and you're a superhumanly-fast and -strong vampire taking on a [[SquishyWizard puny human wizard]] and you don't have the chief weapon of choice against said human wizard, which is surprise. The next-best choice against wizards is to get in close quarters with them, and a weapon with long reach like a spear would be pretty effective in the hands of a creature who can twist steel barbells like pretzels. The White Court in general prefer close-quarters and light weapons anyway, so his weapon of choice is perfectly in keeping with his Court.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Martin's Xanatos Roulette]]
* in changes it is revealed that Martin manipulated events so that Harry could turn the bloodline curse against the reds. The problem is that it would have required a lot of factors to line up perfectly (they'd have to arrive after the theoretical crossbow was ready but before the actual sacrifice, Harry his friends and the red king would all have to be in the chamber at the same time etc). It just seems overly convoluted.
** The impression I got is not that he planned for everyone to be in that room at that precise moment, but rather that he walked in and [[NotSoDifferent like Harry]], improvised in such a way that he could get into position without getting vaporized by the Red King so that Susan could attack him, kill him, get turned, and be used as the trigger for the spell. Less XanatosRoulette, and more XanatosSpeedChess coupled with IndyPloy. He didn't plan the whole thing out, he just improvised on the fly.
** Also, his overall plan wasn't "get everyone in that room at that exact moment so they can do exactly what I planned for them to do." It was "Give Harry the biggest reason possible to bring total war on the Red Court, let him do his thing." Martin is fully aware of what Harry's capable of; he was just being GenreSavvy.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Maggie's Protection]]
* When justifying sending Maggie away to live with some mortal family instead of with Harry, Susan says that Harry couldn't offer her anything other than "a life under siege". Fine. But why couldn't Susan have sent Maggie to Chicago not to live with Harry, but with the Carpenters? The Carpenters have an enormous family and they're Good People, so I highly doubt they would have so minded taking on one more, and on the "protection from the Red Court" front, I can't think of much better protection than living the '''Fist of God''' in a house protected by an ''archangel''. Harry could have even visited her and seen her without bringing her all that much danger. So in short, had Susan sent Maggie to live with the Carpenters, Susan would have had peace of mind, Maggie would have been safe, Harry would have been able to know about his daughter's existence, and even the Carpenters would have felt good about saving one more child. ''Everybody wins''.
** Well, except for the Red Court, obviously, but that's kind of a given.
** Did Susan even really know the Carpenters? Michael was Harry's friend for a while, but I don't recall if Susan was ever shown talking to him. While Harry trusts Michael with his life, Susan probably just didn't know them well enough to trust the family with something like that. Also, being protected by the Archangel didn't stop the Fetches from ransacking the place in ''Proven Guilty'', nor did it stop the Ick from attacking the place in Changes--and by the time the kidnapping plot occurs, it's well ''after'' Michael is out of action. That protection might keep them safe from run of the mill boogeymen, but it's not that great when the enemy attacks deliberately and in force.\\\
Plus, having the kid live with the Carpenters and be regularly visited by Harry would've thrown up all of the red flags that it was, in fact, Harry's kid. Priority one for Susan was ensuring that nobody knew it was Harry's and thus wouldn't use her as leverage.
** Maggie ''wouldn't'' be safe. Archangel protection only applies if the Knight is retired; if he's active in his duties, there's no holy angel sitting overhead. Furthermore, Michael isn't around 24/7, as shown by the fact that his family has been directly or indirectly attacked ''three freaking times'' by supernatural entities (Nicodemus throwing Lasciel's coin at little Harry, the fetches, and the gruffs) and there's no defense, supernatural or otherwise, against mortal goons. All the Reds would have to do is wait until Michael leaves to go a-Knighting, and then smash down the door, murder everyone, and take Maggie. Maggie's only defense is in ''nobody'' knowing who she is.\\
And as was noted above, Susan doesn't know much about Michael. She'd barely met him in ''Grave Peril'', and had minimal contact with him in ''Death Masks''. By the time she'd given birth she was back in South America, and while she likely could have gotten baby Maggie to Michael through indirect means via the Church, but the Church's capabilities are limited. Maggie would likely be tracked back to the States and the Reds would follow - and you ''know'' the Reds would take interest in a child who is obviously to one of the Carpenters' children being adopted by friends of Harry Dresden. Her only real hope is to find a family in South America willing to raise the kid and minimize contact.
** Point of irony: [[spoiler: in ''Ghost Story'', Maggie ''is'' now living with the Carpenters.]] Of course, this is after the guardian angels have been established following Michael being crippled.
* Different headscratcher: [[ViewerMyopia From the reader's point of view]], sending Maggie to live with the Carpenters is obviously the best solution: they're nice people and it's the safest place in the world for her. However, at the end of ''Changes'', Harry notes that she probably ''doesn't speak English'' (and it's never been suggested that any of the Carpenters speak Spanish). This is not a small problem even under the best of circumstances, much less for a child who was recently introduced to the supernatural world by way of watching her family get torn to shreds by people-eating monsters. I know the adults around her were primarily concerned with her safety, but it's still irritating that nobody mentions this.
** Why would anyone need to mention it? Its outside the scope of most of Harry's immediate concerns in ''Ghost Story''. It is a problem, but not an insurmountable one.
** As you said, ''Harry'', who hasn't actually talked to her, thinks she ''probably'' doesn't speak English. In truth? Harry, our narrator, has ''no idea'' what languages she speaks--and given that her mother's native language is English, and said mother did correspond with Maggie occasionally, it's pretty likely she did understand the language.
** Not to mention that Spanish is an extremely common language to learn in American high schools, in addition to Micheal possibly picking it up from his travels around the world.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Sex Is Better Than Blood?]]
* Okay, ''Death Masks''. I forget the exact circumstances, but Susan gets all vampy from overexertion, requiring Harry to tie her up with some unbreakable rope, which is only prudent, and the only thing keeping her from jumping him and sucking him dry (No, not like that. Well, not yet, anyway). Then, OneThingLedToAnother, etc. etc. Harry wakes up later, entwined with Susan, with that unbreakable rope untied, and she's not hungry for blood anymore.\\\
Mainly because I've gotten into the RPG and have started thinking of the in-book events in terms of game mechanics, how does this work? Did Harry, ahem, wear her out? Did slaking one urge [[AddictionDisplacement do the job for another?]]
** Yeah, it's strongly implied that he wore her out, exhausting her and overriding her vampire urges with...others. I suppose orgasms will do that.
*** Huh. No wonder half the females in the series want to get into his pants.
** Susan says outright that she "can't separate the hungers" when it comes to Harry. Lust for his body turns into lust for his blood, and vice-versa.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:How tough is the Winter Knight?]]
* I understand that he got some major power from the transformation but in one of his posts Jim ranked the Winter Knight in a decently high position of power (I am looking for the right link) so what can Harry do now that he's a Winter Knight?
** Winter Knight power varies depending on the Knight in question. Lloyd Slate admits this right to Harry that if he and Ruel had gone head to head, the old man would have smoked him. So, power is dependent on the individual and their talents and experience - kind of like wizards.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The lunatic fringe]]
We've heard Harry's explanation for why people ignore the paranormal. However, where are all the people that ''do'' believe in it without encountering it? According to Gallup polls, about half the people in the US believe in ESP, and a fifth believe in witches. Sure, there's Susan, but where's everybody else? How come no one's come to Harry and asked for some sort of proof that he's a wizard? Or asked if they have a burgeoning magical talent for this or that reason? Or even just some {{otherkin}} asking for help to regain their "true" body? People that don't believe in the supernatural seem to have no trouble finding Harry, so people actively looking for it should find him easily. Even if someone doesn't believe in it, there's got to be some dedicated debunkers that ask him for proof of wizardry. There might even be more people like that than in real life, as Harry's Chicago has a police branch that investigates the most-definitely-not-supernatural, which is ripe for conspiracy theories. Come to think of it, what does SI tell the public that they do?
* Because a lot of questions are being asked here, in order:
* ''How come no one's come to Harry and asked for some sort of proof that he's a wizard?'' Generally speaking, anyone asking for proof that he's a wizard is interested in the supernatural community; those whom he's demonstrated proof to effectively ''become'' part of the occult community through simply being exposed to said knowledge.
* ''Or asked if they have a burgeoning magical talent for this or that reason?'' That's why Harry has a bunch of pamphlets in his office discussing magic, and what he has done before for some people. If someone has some talent, he'll give them some advice and point them int he right direction, and maybe some training (for a fee, naturally). If someone has serious talent, he points them to the White Council, and they take it from there.
** We do see him with Kim in Fool Moon. She's a minor talent he's helping learn magic.
* ''Or even just some {{otherkin}} asking for help to regain their "true" body?'' This may fall into grey areas around the Laws of Magic. But regardless, see above on teaching.
* ''Even if someone doesn't believe in it, there's got to be some dedicated debunkers that ask him for proof of wizardry.'' And Harry would likely do his best to avoid them, as either they'll generate negative publicity for him, or they'll just not believe he's an actual wizard no matter what he does (magic shorting out recording devices doesn't help). Also keep in mind that some of these dedicated debunkers are in the employ of the bad guys, like Duke Ortega, who spends a significant amount of time debunking magic, including real magic.
** Larry Fowler who is still suing him last time we heard?
* '' Come to think of it, what does SI tell the public that they do?'' SI investigates weirdness. That ''is'' the public and professional image.
** Also, Harry is like ''one guy'' in the middle of a ''huge'' city; he's not a well known, public figure. Plus, he may be in the phone book, but be honest: When's the last time you opened a phone book? Hell, when's the last time you ''saw'' a phone book? Barely anyone uses them anymore, and Harry doesn't have a website, so to quite a lot of people out there, he's effectively anonymous.
*** Just to further the phone book issue; he's the ''one'' entry under "Wizards". It's not like "Auto Repair" or "Grocery Stores" where you have a good chance of hitting the section by accident opening the book at random. So anybody finding him under there was probably ''looking'' for a wizard already. We don't ever even see anything to suggest he's listed elsewhere in the book ("Private Investigators" would be likely, but I don't recall any mention of it.)
* On a more general note, I would imagine that those people who both believe in the supernatural and are willing to go look for it meet one of three fates. If they're lucky, they meet with the occult underground community or some of the kinder supernatural beings out there, and they eventually join that society or just hang around it and are told to keep quiet about it. If they're not so lucky, they might get turned away or get scared off by the supernatural when they actually find it, and end up going back to their normal lives. If they're unlucky, they stumble upon the monsters before they know any better, and then get eaten or enslaved by whoever finds them. The Vampire Courts, the Winter Fae, and all the other supernatural baddies seem to have no problem getting servants and food from the mortal population, so I think those beings all have ways of drawing clueless mortals to them as a method of getting easy prey.
* And just because people believe in the supernatural (like this troper) for instance, doesn't mean they necessarily go looking for it. And it doesn't mean they'd actually believe it if they saw it. Believing something might exist and coming face to face with it are two completely different things.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Doom of Damocles]]
* So the Doom requires a sponsor and the accused. If the accused does something wrong, the sponsor is proven wrong as well and gets killed along with the accused. So why is Harry running around in Storm Front with the Doom still over him, and Ebenezar is apparently unconcerned?
** Incorrect. The Doom of Damocles itself does not require a sponsor. Rehabilitation of a warlock requires a sponsor until the warlock has been judged to be properly trained, and both the warlock and the sponsor are under the Doom during this time. Once the warlock is judged to be capable of operating on their own, they are released to work on their own, with a probation officer assigned to keep an eye on them and lop off their head if they relapse.
*** Alright then. That makes more sense...
* Another thing. What happens if the sponsor dies? Shouldn't that cancel the Doom and kill the accused as well? So since Harry just died, shouldn't Molly get killed?
** Maybe. If the sponsoring wizard dies, another will need to take up the duty of teaching the warlock. If no one is willing to do so, Molly will be executed as a matter of course. So three things are likely to happen: The Council puts out the choppy order on Molly, another wizard intervenes and becomes her master until she's judged fit for duty on her own, or the Council will test her to see if she qualifies as a full wizard in her own right and assign probation. It is also possible that Harry might be resurrected before the Council even realizes he's dead, depending on how Ghost Story plays out; remember that during Changes the Council is in complete chaos due to Ramirez's uprising, Luccio's detention, and the sickness spread through Edinburgh, so it might take some time for them to respond to anything.
*** The Ghost Story preview chapters state it's been 9 months since Harry died, and while Molly's status hasn't been covered yet, I'd think they'd have realized by then. Even Aftermath was 6 months after, by Side Jobs' reckoning. (Or so I remember...) I think Ebenezar would take over. And do a lot of grumbling next time he can talk to Harry.
*** What? Aftermath started about 45 minutes after Changes ended. This is stated explicitly right at the start of the story.
** According to Ghost Story, it's only been six months, but without Harry around the Council ''has'' been trying to pass sentence on Molly and kill her. They're mostly tied up dealing with the fallout of the Red Court extinction, so one warlock is just a drop in the ocean compared with the fighting erupting in the resulting power vacuum. Molly's also damned good at avoiding being caught.
*** Murphy says that Carlos has come by looking for Molly at least once, but he's dragging his feet - and presumably has much bigger problems on his hands.
*** Yeah, Ramirez's "looking for Molly" is probably along the lines of, "Hi Murph, you haven't seen Molly, right? No? Okay, I'll be on my way bye."
[[/folder]]
[[folder: The Lightning Gate]]
* After the Battle Of Chichen Itza the team was able to leap right back to Chicago. If that was the case, why not jump straight to the point 5 miles out of Chichen Itza?
** They needed a target to center the gate at; Vadderung couldn't just open the gate in the middle of the center of the Red Court's power. Lea had to place a beacon of some sort that allowed for the gate to open, which is kind of why she threw that beacon down in the first place. Also keep in mind that Vadderung was with Ebenezar and the Grey Council and was not privy to Harry's exact plan.
** Remember what Vadderung says when Harry goes to meet him. At that time, in that place, the Red King is as strong, or stronger, than he is. He simply wouldn't have been able to make such a portal without the Red King at least being distracted.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Thomas and Justine in Ghost Story]]
* It was really sweet and all, but really? He can't touch a scarf she made for him as a token of her love in previous books and now he can touch her?
** Once the True Love Protection is gone (which she is trying to invoke at the end of ''Ghost Story''), yeah.
*** ...via threesomes?
** ...yeah? The mechanics of the protection caused by true love have already been ''very'' clearly established. So long as Justine's last intimate contact was with someone who possesses true love for her, that remains a part of her life energy that the White Court feeds on. If she has sex with someone who is not in love with her, that protection is gone and she can be fed on again by any White Court vampire who feeds on lust. So Justine's solution is very simple; have sex with someone who doesn't love her, then she can have sex with Thomas. The process of doing so will again result in her being protected by true love. Rinse and repeat.\\
It's the ''exact'' same thing as what happened to Harry after he started sleeping with Luccio. She didn't truly love him, and thus he lost the protection that Susan's love for him had conferred, allowing Madeline to use her WC powers on him. There is nothing contradictory about Thomas and Justine.
*** Thank you, I finally got what the 'Rinse and Repeat' part was about. Oh, that had been bugging me for hours.
* OP here, I understand how they are getting around it I just think it's bogus when you add in the fact that White Court Vampires can't touch things which are a token of love, eg. weddings rings, the scarf Justine made. Harry having sex with Luccio kinda means that he's not so in love with Susan anymore. Justine is just trying to get close to Thomas. It just makes no sense to me that he presumably can't touch the scarf but he can touch her.
** Objects and tokens of affection have a clearly different effect from physical contact. This is one of the consistent rules within the setting (like only inherited silver working against loup-garou). Tokens of affection burn regardless of whether the Hunger in question is trying to feed. Remember that the rules surrounding magic and supernatural beings are at times arbitrary - see the faeries and the vast web of restrictions and specific rules that govern them. Compared with them, the behavior of objects created or gifted as tokens of love is nothing.
** Moreover, a person can nullify the protective effect of their love by having sex with someone other than their beloved. Such intimacy, even if done with the full consent of the beloved, is at least symbolic of betrayal: of throwing over the beloved for somebody else. An object given out of love can't go cheat on the recipient sexually, and thus discard the protective effect; to ruin a love-gift's protection, you'd probably have to do something else that's symbolic of the end of love, such as dropping a wedding ring down the sewer grating in front of a courthouse where the couple just finalized a messy divorce.
* Plus, how would that even work, when does sex end? at orgasm? because thats going to be an awkward place to have blisters. Not until the snuggling's finished? That seems like its stretching it a bit.
** It's not clear, but we know that it likely occurs sometime after the intimacy ends. Thomas was able to finish having sex with Justine in Blood Rites before she became protected by his love, so more likely than not the protection is only conferred afterward. Of course, this is likely specific to the individuals involved, like a lot of Dresden magic.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:A Shout Out Missed?]]
Jim Butcher is OneOfUs, and ''definitely'' a Marvel fan as well. So how is it that when he puts Harry up against a skull in a Nazi uniform, he ''doesn't'' [[CaptainAmerica turn that skull red somehow?]]
* Assuming he ever does make that particular ShoutOut, maybe he's [[SequelHook saving it for a more logical time to turn the skull red]].
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explosion positions]]
When Harry detonates the gas pumps to, for lack of a better term, banish He Who Walks Behind, he has the pumps at his back and sends the fire over his shoulder, as HWWB always comes from, well, behind. However, he describes the explosion as knocking him "on [his] ass", even though it came from behind him. Did the explosion make him do a flip or is this just a minor goof, as in the minivan example above?
* The explosion likely spun him around or lifted him up. Force generated by expanding air from improvised gasoline explosions do not hit with uniform, perfectly spherical shapes.
** The narration mentions nothing about him being spun around, and getting spun at all is incredibly unlikely anyway; he's got his feet on the ground, so any applied force would be much more likely to push him forward than around.
** It's an expression. I've said the same thing about particularly hot buffalo wings and not once has a piece of chicken literally knocked me on my kiester.
*** There's a big difference between using it to describe food and using it to describe exploding gas stations. In this situation, the literal usage is much more likely.
*** Yes, but it doesn't mean it's a goof if Harry did not literally end up squarely on his buttocks. He was describing how strong the explosion was, not giving a clinical physics analysis of the forces at work and exactly how they affected his body as it was pushed into the air by the shockwave. Good lord do people take things way too damn literally sometimes.
**** But when Harry describes HWWB dying, he describes it as a "not-figure" in the fire, where the fire goes around something invisible. He can only see HWWB in reflections, and turning doesn't necessarily change where HWWB is, because he saw the cashier get ripped apart without looking in a reflection. Because Harry can't see HWWB, he's not looking at the gas station windows, assuming they're still intact from the explosion.
*** So there's your answer. The explosion hit him in such a way that he got turned around, and was thus looking in HWWB's direction, therefore he fell on his ass.
**** Which, as I've said, is incredibly unlikely, and nothing is mentioned about Harry getting spun around. I'm thinking this is just a goof.
*** "Incredibly unlikely," based on what? Also, you just said that Harry's description of it means he's turned around--ergo, there's mention of him being turned around.
**** Incredibly unlikely based on physics. While an improvised gas station explosion would, as you said, not be perfectly spherical, most of the force would be away from the pumps. When was the last time you saw an explosion in a movie turn someone around, rather than bowling them over or launching them through the air? And there's no ''mention'' of him being turned around; he's facing away from the pumps when he sprays fire, then towards them when they explode, without anything in between.
*** He'd actually have to be half-turned to do the attack in the first place. He's spraying the flames from his open palm, after all, which would need him to at least twist his torso about so he could angle his arm to aim at HWWB. If he's already half-turned, the force of the explosion is going to hit him at the angle, and is more likely to turn him.
**** If he was half-turned, I could accept that. But it's not hard to just point your hand over your shoulder, which is how I interpreted it happening. Try it.
*** Yeah, but I don't have a plume of fire coming out of my palm. Putting your hand over your shoulder puts your hand right next to your ear. Not mentioning getting turned around is one thing, but I have to imagine Harry's narration would've mentioned it if he scorched the side of his own head in the process.
**** Magic. Harry's contained heat from fire before; the ball of fire he uses on Molly is twelve hundred degrees, but nothing bursts into flames or melts. And if it didn't scorch his palm, why should it scorch his shoulder? Plus, IIRC, the narration specifically mentions him sending it over his shoulder.
*** The heat is still there, magic or no. Harry's not very good at the subtle stuff like that--especially if it's the first time he's casting a spell of that size. The small ball of fire in particular he specifically says is something he took a lot of time and effort pre-preparing just for that occasion, and it's explicitly ''not'' something he is capable of putting together on the fly. I recall the narration mentioning him sweeping the flame side-to-side when he's attacking HWWB which would have been hard to do without melting his ears off if he's holding his hand the way you're suggesting.
**** The narration specifically mentions Harry sticking his hand over his shoulder. Besides, he has to control the heat at least somewhat; throwing that much fire around means he'll get burned at arm's length if he doesn't keep the heat off in some way. Think of a fire in a fireplace or fire pit, and multiply it by a hundred.
*** Nowhere in the passage (I'm looking at pages 288-290 in the hardcover) does it specify that he's putting his hand over his shoulder. All it says is Harry "extended my right hand back toward it." The only time his shoulder is mentioned is as part of how the heat is traveling down his arm to his hand. As for getting burned with his own heat, he specifically mentions smelling burned hairs even as he's gathering the power.\\\
He can certainly ''direct'' the heat well enough, but he can't get rid of it entirely--by pushing the heat forward, away from him, he protects himself from being burned by his own spells, but if his hand were over his shoulder, he'd have to be ''really'' flexible to get his hand far enough past his head where he wouldn't burn his own hair.\\\
Plus, once again, the passage says he sweeps the flame from side to side--which would ''definitely'' get his head scorched if he was doing it over his shoulder.
**** Okay. I probably misremembered it. So, in the name of simplicity: standing sideways, explosion turned him a bit.
**** Any kickback effect from throwing all that fire might've helped spin him around, too.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Joining the White Council]]
Exactly what does it take to join the White Council? It's not just age: Molly angsts that by the time the White Council takes her seriously, her youngest siblings will have died of old age. Harry Jr. was born in ''Grave Peril'', and since each book takes place roughly a year after the previous one, he's about ten now, so with the American life expectancy at about eighty years, Molly will be about ninety when Harry Jr. dies, but main-character Harry is less than forty. Ramirez mentions a test of some kind in ''White Night'', but it's not clear whether it measures skill, power, or some combination of the two. Molly ''is'' mentioned as being skilled, but not very powerful, and if a wizard's power grows as they age, it's possible that Molly won't be powerful enough to be considered for membership until then.
* The precise requirements are not clear, but you need to be able to use multiple forms of magic with enough skill and capability. Molly angsting that she'll be accepted as a wizard by the time her family is dying of old age is simply inaccurate, as Harry was accepted as a member of the White Council in his early twenties, Elaine could have joined at the same age, and Ramirez joined in his teens along with a lot of other young Wardens. Molly's wrong, but there's nothing new about that.
** The requirements are that you have to be at least capable of all varieties of Thaumaturgy as well as Evocation. Molly isn't angsting about how old she'll have to be to be ''on'' the White Council, she's saying that that's how long until anyone ''respects'' her as a wizard. Seeing as she's the former/possibly-still Warlock who's been trained by what most of the council thinks of as "Lucifer: The Next Generation", and the state she's in when she says that, I'd argue she's got a point.
* The earlier books suggest that there are particular requirements; ''Summer Knight'', in particular, states that there are "Trials" for a full-fledged wizard to overcome. The Senior Council members say that Harry never had to endure the trials because he defeated Justin DuMorne in a duel, which presumably fulfills the requirements. Also remember that at that White Council meeting, Harry says that he is the youngest wizard there out of several hundred by at least a few decades. As for the younger Wardens, it's possible that there are Wardens specifically trained in combat that don't necessarily fulfill the requirements of full White Council membership, but that's digging into WildMassGuessing territory.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Lord Raith's Whereabouts and Mental Stability ]]
* When the Skinwalker attacks the manor in Turn Coat Lara asks Justine for a head count, and Justine rattles off her sisters and Madeline being present. No mention is made of her father,which while it's understandable that he wouldn't be doing any fighting, it's also a good idea to be able to keep track of your figurehead's whereabouts especially when a demigod attacks the house. Also just how in control of himself is Papa Raith?, as he's clearly able to function enough to host a meeting between the other House Leaders and I'm sure they'd be able to sense any White court-style mental tampering.
** Why would his whereabouts be an issue? Lara likely knows exactly where he is and maintains a guard detail to keep track of exactly where he is. Besides, Lara doesn't need to know where he is; she specifically asks "how many of the blood" are "in the house" - which means she needs to know how many of her family are present that can move around on their own. Lord Raith is almost certainly inside the house, so Lara doesn't need to be updated as to his location; she already knows where he is. And why should the White Court be able to detect mental tampering? They've never once at any point in the series demonstrated the ability to readily detect mental tampering in others. Don't assume they have an ability they've never shown.
** White Court vamps clearly have no ability to "detect" mental tampering--even if they were the ones doing the tampering. When Lord Raith first meets Murphy, he tries to put the whammy on her, and she resists--but he still believes it worked. If the King of the White Court can't tell that ''his own'' mental tampering didn't work on someone standing less than five feet away from him, what makes you think that anyone else in the court is going to be able to tell he's been whammied himself?
*** He wasn't using his Hunger powers on Murphy, he couldn't remember? He was just attacking her psychologically.
*** Feeding on her =/= putting the mental whammy on her. He could still ''induce'' emotions in others, he just couldn't ''feed'' on them anymore.
*** Yeah, the description of what he's doing to her clearly described Papa Raith as inducing lust against her will. He appeared to have misjudged its effectiveness on her.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Carpenter Angelic Defenses]]
In Ghost stories it shows that the Carpenter house is the [[OnePiece Impel Down]] of the Dresden verse. Around two dozens of angels (each a OneManArmy unto themselves) guarding 24/7 365 days, making it literally one of the most protected places in the world against the supernatural. But seeing this, how was Nicodemus capable of coming close to the House in Small Favor? or throw the Denarian coin to little Harry, forcing Harry to be possesed by the Fallen Angel in Death Mask?. Isn't this the kind of things that the Angels are supposed to protect them for? Or how where the servants of Winter capable of assaulting the family and abduct Molly to the Never/never? Is the protection only existing recently because Michael is crippled and if this is the case, why they didn't do anything when the crazy militant father decided to rob the swords? Kind of confusing, since the Angles were shown to take the matter very, very, ''very'' seriously.
* The angels are part of the Knights' "retirement package." Simply put, they weren't there until Michael was forced to give up the Sword. As for the events of The Warrior, as I recall the guy never assailed the house direction, which is what the Angels were protecting. He grabbed Michael's daughter from softball practice, and when he tried to jump Harry he wasn't in the house.
* Also, I'm pretty sure it's been stated that the angels will only protect Michael from supernatural threats.
** Yes to both of the above. The angels are only there to protect against supernatural threats, and were only posted once Michael retired. Their entire purpose is to protect Michael's family from retaliation now that he no longer has the Sword. If Michael were to take up the Sword again, the angels would be recalled and his family would be vulnerable to attack again. And the angels only act against supernatural threats. Father Roarke was a mortal and thus they couldn't act against him. I also believe that they would intervene if someone threatens the Carpenters outside their home too, at least until they reach Molly's age and move out.\\
IIRC, it is explicitly stated that this is the case in Changes when Susan asks Harry if Michael would be willing to help him.
*** Okay, so what stopped Nicodemus to kill the Carpenter's Family while Michael was out? Or any other denarius taking a shot before the retire package was on? I mean, the guy ''knew'' where they lived, what they did and even tried to condemn little Harry as a living weapon (showing that nothing stopped him to act) and Nicodemus was ruthless enough and savvy enough (not to mention petty) to had the lot killed just to hurt one of the swords. That would fit in their modus operandus. If the carpenters didn't posses enough protection to stop low level Faerie spirits or a middle ground warrior to snatch their daughter or they where unprotected while out of the house, how can they still be alive after declaring war to the heavy weights of the spirit world with who knows how many fanatical warriors at their disposal and money to hire ''mortal'' mercenaries if needed?.
*** Do you know what happens if someone does lasting harm to the Carpenter family? Michael happens. The Fist of God comes down on you like, well, the '''Fist of God'''. The protection a Sword wielder's family has is the Sword wielder himself. Nicodemus doesn't just want to ''hurt'' one of the Knights; he wants to destroy them and the swords themselves. Killing the Carpenter kids does nothing but make Michael want to hunt him down personally, immediately.\\\
Remember, Nicodemus is the long term planner. What stopped him from slaughtering the Carpenter household? It wouldn't further his plans. All it would do was make the wielder of the most powerful of the three Swords come after him personally. There's no benefit to Nicodemus in this scenario.
*** Killing the Carpenters won't do him any good except piss off a Knight of the Cross even further. There's no point to it, no profit to it, and there's a good chance it will provoke Harry Dresden into pulling out the stops, picking up the big sticks, and going after him. But mostly its because he doesn't care. He's got more important people to kill, ore important plots to hatch, and far greater priorities than a spite killing.\\
Not to mention that this ''is'' a Knight of the Cross here. If Nicodemus were to seriously attempt to kill the Carpenters, there's about a 100% probability that Big G is going to prod probability to have Sanya end up at Michael's house at the right moment and that Michael will return just before the attack hits. That's how the Knights roll. Remember that both times that the Carpenter family was actually attacked by a supernatural force (the Nightmare attacking Charity, the fetches attacking and kidnapping Molly), probability was twisted so that events played out so that they got out mostly unscathed.
*** Nicodemus is not scared of Michael. He had killed ''hundreds'' of Knights of the swords through history. Even Michael stated that to defeat a ''single Denarian'' let alone ''the strongest one'', they prefered three to one odds. Hiro was legendary in the fact that he could kill a Denarian single handely and even "survived" a confrontation against Nicodemus and Michael accepted he was ''nowhere'' near his level. And he will not face Michael alone or fairly. He is also not afraid of Harry. Once again, is the other way around and Harry managed to won thanks to blind luck, as always. Even so, Michael stated that you can't use the sword for personal reasons, so he could go and bring him "divine justice ". In fact, twisting Michael into rage ''would be'' a very devious and smart move from Nicodemus: either he is hurt and broken or he decided to hunt him against the tenets of the Lord (Vengenace Is Mine) and even manipulate Harry in somekind of plan (somehow, who Knows. I'm not a millenary old fallen angel). Also, isn't (trying) condeming his youngest child in becoming the very abomination he hunt an act that might piss him off?. And about GOD... that seems to be a cheap cop out, to be honest. You got a DeusExMachina at your bet and call so you can make any excuse and put it as "divine internvention" or "God works in mysterious way" and be done with it. You couldn't even said: well, Nicodemus had slaughtered other Knigts, assaulted their stronghold to burn down any information about them, hunt down those who could possibly know anything about them (including the Archive) but he loves Michael '''''so''''' very much that is going to put his foot down, so there. Even if you point that Faeries and mortal can act against them and somehow managed to come out fine, it was thanks to God and not their effort, decision and luck and you can't ''logically'' discuss it. Also, wasn't Uriel who stated that Heaven can't act or alterate the World to their desire to allow humans free will?. But that is discussion for another moment. So, another reason why Carpenter's where untouchable before the retiring package that is not "God's mysterious (offscreen) will" that you can think of?.
*** No one said Nicodemus was ''afraid'' of either Michael or Harry (except for WordOfGod post-Small Favor regarding Harry). However, he ''respects'' both of them in terms of the threat they represent, and he ''is'' afraid of the Swords. He shows this quite clearly when Harry pegs the one thing that seems to scare him - the possibility of mortality, be it a Sword lopping off his head or getting choked to death on his own noose. Even the off-chance that death ''might'' happen is an unsettling and terrifying thought to Nicodemus. One bad turn of luck is all Nicodemus needs to find himself on a quick trip to Downbelow, so he's going to mitigate those chances wherever he can.\\
In addition, just because the Knights nor Harry could present a serious threat to Nicodemus' personal health doesn't mean that he wouldn't be afraid of them getting involved. Harry doesn't need to kill Nicodemus to derail his plans, and the Knights specialize in derailing Denarian plots. Harry just needs to be a greater thorn in Nicodemus' side as an active opponent than he would be if he stayed put, and Nicodemus has all the reason he needs to avoid provoking him. He'd likely ignore the Carpenters on that basis alone, because a Harry Dresden who is actively fighting against and disrupting Nicodemus' plans is very bad news and something he'd really want to avoid.
*** ''Even so, Michael stated that you can't use the sword for personal reasons, so he could go and bring him "divine justice ".'' No. A Sword can only be misused if the user willing turns it against its purpose. Use of ''Amoraccius'' to escape debts is a misuse of its power. Use of ''Amoraccius'', the Sword of Love, to bring divine justice for the deaths of the ones one loves would not likely be a misuse.
*** ''In fact, twisting Michael into rage ''would be'' a very devious and smart move from Nicodemus: either he is hurt and broken or he decided to hunt him against the tenets of the Lord (Vengenace Is Mine)'' While it would be "clever", it could easily backfire on him. Michale might not go into a blind fury. Michael could simply redouble his dedication to fighting Nicodemus and his ilk. Nicodemus wouldn't really know how Michael would react, for good or ill, so he's unlikely to directly attack Michael's family. Nicodemus can't be certain, so he's not going to risk it without some ulterior gain; he's a plotter, but not a gambler.
*** ''Also, isn't (trying) condeming his youngest child in becoming the very abomination he hunt an act that might piss him off?.'' Quite possibly, but Nicodemus' actions were not intended to piss Michael off. They were intended to either ensnare Harry or ensnare Michael's son. We know Michael witnessed the act, but we don't know what his immediate reaction was except gratitude that Harry had protected his son.
*** ''And about GOD... that seems to be a cheap cop out, to be honest. You got a DeusExMachina at your bet and call so you can make any excuse and put it as "divine internvention" or "God works in mysterious way" and be done with it.'' Alteration of probability to assist in the protection of a Knight's loved ones has been demonstrated before in the series. Coincidence always helps the Knights to achieve their goals; this is demonstrable fact. You don't like it, tough. Cry some fucking more.\\
More importantly, Nicodemus knows this. He would recognize the danger of targeting the Carpenter family directly because Big G has the capacity to alter probability to put a Sword in his way. It might not be flawless, but the possibility is enough of a danger that Nicodemus would be unlikely to take the risk. As said before, he's a plotter, ''not'' a gambler. The only time he takes a risk is when either outcome benefits him.
*** ''Also, wasn't Uriel who stated that Heaven can't act or alterate the World to their desire to allow humans free will?'' No. Uriel never said that. He said they couldn't directly intervene when someone was facing the consequences of their actions. They certainly seem fully capable of altering probability to aid the Knights in their endeavors; there's just too many instances of events lining up perfectly for the Knights and their allies to be in position so that they could act. That's a fact within the setting.
*** And again, you're not addressing the primary point I made before: Nicodemus ''has more important things to do'' than muck around with Michael's family. The only times he's ever made even a threat toward said family was when he happened to be in Chicago and it favored his interests. Otherwise, he has no particular reason to target them, because they don't matter, they won't help his plans in any way, and he's got bigger things to deal with. Nicodemus is ''not'' the kind of person who kills for shits and giggles; every murder he perpetrates is calculated. The only benefit he might gain is that he ''might'' piss off Michael and Harry, but that's not guaranteed and could result in Michael and Harry stomping all over whatever plans he's cooking up elsewhere in the world. Nicodemus is quite content with Harry staying in Chicago and holding one of the Three instead of angry, mobile, and actively looking for either someone else to take up the Sword or taking it up himself. Also keep in mind that Harry is packing Lasciel's shadow, who can supply Lasciel's coin, and if Harry gets pissed, he might just take it up - and his first target would be Nicodemus.
*** Nicodemus didn't survive for 2000 years and kill hundreds of Knights of the Cross by being petty and picking fights he didn't have to. That would be a stupid way for an intelligent villain to operate, and it would've gotten him killed centuries ago.
[[folder: The Fairy Donut]]
* I don't get it. Harry asks for a donut and Summer stops chasing him?
* It's more complicated than that, and it's explained explicitly how and why it works in the exact same exchange where Harry makes the request. The whole logic of it is literally right there.
* You have to remember that the Fae are all bound by rules and obligations. Harry is acting as a servant of Winter in the current case, and so Summer, being Winters rival, is sending people to stop him. The case is nearly at an end, and once it's over Harry will no longer be acting for Winter and Summer won't be required to fight him. The Gruff that shows up doesn't really want to kill Harry, he's just acting under orders. And Summer owes Harry one favor. So Harry uses his favor to ask the Gruff to get him a donut. The Gruff, being a fae, is obligated to honour the request, and obtaining the donut occupies him long enough that Harry can finish the case. By the time he comes back with Harry's donut, the Gruff is no longer required to kill him and just goes home.
* To explain it in detail, since the obvious explanation in the book apparently flew over your head: The entire conflict between Summer and Winter is caused by the fact that Mab wants to free Marcone, and Titania operates in opposition to Mab because that's how Summer and Winter roll. Mab chooses an Emissary, in this case Harry. The gruffs go after Harry because Titania orders them to take out the Winter Emissary. The gruffs view Harry as a WorthyOpponent and don't like the idea of going after him. When Harry gets on the island, he frees Marcone, ending the entire spat between Summer and Winter. However, because Eldest Gruff is still on the field, and so is Harry, then they have to hash it out until Harry can get off the island. When the confrontation occurs, Harry uses the boon Lily gave him back in ''Proven Guilty'', which is a boon that exists in the service of the whole Summer Court. Harry can't get Eldest Gruff to back down from killing him, but he can use the boon to make Eldest Gruff adjust his priorities to go fetch a donut first before Eldest would kill him. Eldest takes the boon, and then takes his sweet time getting a donut for Harry, giving him time to get off the island and thus allowing the gruffs to end the conflict peacefully. It's a LoopholeAbuse of the finest sort, and exactly what the faeries get a kick out of, which is why it works.\\
'''Technically'', Summer stopped chasing Harry the moment he freed Marcone, but because Eldest was on the island (drawn by the fire Harry used on Tessa) with Harry, they were required to duke it out until Harry could actually quit the field of battle (read: get the hell away from the island). Harry's act of using his boon to make Eldest go fetch a donut for him simply kept Eldest from killing him as he was required until Harry could escape, at which point any obligations toward violence had been concluded.\\
It doesn't hurt that Eldest really doesn't want to kill Harry, so he's going to delay as long as possible until Harry is gone from the island, at which point it's over.
--> '''Eldest Gruff:''' The confounding enchanment thou didst employ upon our tracking spell was most effacious.
** Not the clearest syntax for the modern reader. Unnecessary rudeness aside (or did I misunderstand the purpose of this page, too?), I suppose I could have been clearer with my original question. From later mentions in the series (''Turn Coat'' and ''Changes'') it seemed like donuts were some type of in-joke. From the explainations here, it sounds like Harry started the [[MemeticMutation joke.]] That part was what [[{{Headscratchers}} bugged me.]] I thought it had originated in a short story, but I guess it was here (''Small Favor'').
*** It became a joke because [[ItMakesSenseInContext people who weren't there]] ''would'' think it was silly for Harry to ask for a doughnut. (As an aside, why do you have a quote there about the confounding enchantement? That had zero to do with the doughnut request, unless you consider Elder Gruff's respect for Harry's ability to tie in, which I suppose it did in a sense. As an earlier troper said, Elder didn't really want to kill Harry, allowing them to reach the 'errand' compromise.)
[[/folder]]
[[folder: "Mountain Ice Demon" ]]
* In ''Changes'', Esmerelda says something like 'Oh! It cheated! It brought a demon of its own! A mountain ice demon from the Land of Dreams!" What was she talking about?
** She was referring to Mouse, I am pretty sure. He is Tibetan in origin (thus, "mountain ice" and "Land of Dreams," unless the latter refers to the Nevernever), and as confirmed later in the book, he is much, much more than a dog. The only other allies of Harry's present were Thomas and Molly, and it couldn't have been referring to either of them, plus the three of them were closing in thanks to Mouse following Harry's scent.
** Yeah, she was talking about Mouse. Ancient Mai confirmed in ''Turn Coat'' that Mouse is an actual Foo Dog, not just a scion of one, thus the "demon" part.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Vadderung's Secretaries]]
* What exactly are they?
** Well they were referred to as "H" and "M" , so Huggin and Munnin, Odin's ravens observation and memory (notice "M" reminds him of the meeting)from the norse legend.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Six Necromancers]]
* Okay, i don't know how i don't get this, maybe i read too fast and missed it, but in ''Dead Beat'' were told there are supposed to be six necromancers in Chicago. Who are they? I can only see four, Cowl, Grevane, Corpsetaker, and Kumori, and ''maybe'' Cassius. But even if you stretch to include him, that's only five. So who the hell is the sixth? Is it the body Corpsetaker was using before taking that coed? Is it just supposed to be Kemmler even though he's dead? Is it supposed to be Harry after he resurrected Sue? Is it Mavra? This ''really'' bugs me. Harry comes out and says there are six necromancers, is that just an incorrect assumption he made after using that spell to find six uses of necromancy? Or did i just completely miss a character somewhere?
* The Corpsetaker had a ghoul in his/her employ, so if you count Cassius, I suppose the Ghoul counts too. When does Dresden say six of them, again? If it's before he's ID'd those four, he might've mistated, yeah.
** It's a mistake on the printing on the back of the book. Harry was basing the "six necromancers" idea on the fact that Morty's ghosts were able to pick up six points of necromancy-based energy in Chicago. There are actually only four, with a pair of drummers to back them up.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Winter Knight durability]]
* Okay, so Harry gets shot, and wizards aren't much sturdier than normal people. But he's also the ''Winter Knight'', and the knights ''are'' much sturdier than normal people. Specifically, they're enough sturdier that Slate survived being ''struck by lighting''.
** ....and? Slate survived being shocked by magical lightning, which faeries and those being empowered by them are more resistant towards. Harry, on the other hand, got ''shot through the freaking heart'' by a military-grade sniper round. Getting shot in the chest by a sniper round that punches clean through your heart is going to kill you, Winter Knight or no. Winter Knights aren't Superman. Being the Winter Knight doesn't make you immune to bullets, especially the kind of bullets that do massive internal organ trauma like those of most sniper rifles. There would be an inconsistency if, say, Slate had been shot and suffered comparable trauma to his body, but he hasn't.
** And besides, surviving a lightning strike isn't a superhuman feat. People in real life have survived being struck by lightning.
** Hell, the fact that Harry didn't ''die instantly'' when the sniper round punched through him, but had time to be confused and linger for a bit before toppling off the boat, is a testament to how tough he'd have to be thanks to being the Winter Knight. Sniper rifles, by design, tend to be both high-powered and high-caliber. Getting shot through the chest by one would kill a human outright, not give them enough time to stop and stare at their own blood splatter for a few seconds and wonder where the red paint came from.
** I don't think the round that hit Harry was high powered and high caliber. It seemed to be a subsonic sound, since Harry never mentions hearing the ballistic crack. It was just a straight shot to the heart. Being extra tough doesn't mean your skin is bulletproof.
*** Er, no. Most modern weapons fire bullets at supersonic speeds. At the distance handguns and normal rifles are used at, the difference in time between the bullet reaching you and the sound reaching you would be so small that you'd think it was simultaneous. With sniper rifles, however, the shooter can be so far away that you die before you hear the sound, which is what happened to Harry.
*** Yes, ''most'' modern weapons do. I was saying that since Harry never mentions hearing the ballistic crack--even when it takes him a few seconds of stumbling after being shot--''this particular'' rifle was probably using subsonic ammunition. Yes, a sniper ''can'' be so far away that the sound never gets to you, but this one didn't have to be, and depending on the topography and building layout of Chicago, it might not've been feasible.
** Nope, it was a high-powered round. In ''Aftermath'', Murphy notes that the round fired went through Harry and both walls of the boat to hit the lake. You'd need a pretty powerful round to do that. Harry probably didn't hear the crack because by the time the he would have heard it, he was dying of blood loss.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Madrigal's weapon of choice]]
* I know that Madrigal's considered pretty stupid by a lot character's in White Knight and Proven Guilty ,but I'd never pegged him as plain suicidal. I understand that he was unprepared for a duel in the first place and that he had to make do with what was in the armory,but if you can get your hands on Anti Magic armbands then why just pick a spear?. Especially since he never was able to get in range for a proper thrust or throw considering his opponents could easily destroy it mid-flight.
** Probably it's just that it was the melee weapon he felt he was best with. Ramirez went into the fight with a sword, after all, and he had about as much opportunity to use it as Madrigal did his spear. Also, thrown weapons were fairly effective when you consider the Malvora landed at least two knives in Ramirez's leg and gut.
** His weapon is less of a "stupid" choice and more like the ''only'' choice. It's the weapon and gear he had in his room at the estate. If he'd kept his assault rifle stashed in the estate they probably would have brought that as well. Besides, a spear is a pretty good weapon, especially if you're outfitted with gear that nullifies magic, and you're a superhumanly-fast and -strong vampire taking on a [[SquishyWizard puny human wizard]] and you don't have the chief weapon of choice against said human wizard, which is surprise. The next-best choice against wizards is to get in close quarters with them, and a weapon with long reach like a spear would be pretty effective in the hands of a creature who can twist steel barbells like pretzels. The White Court in general prefer close-quarters and light weapons anyway, so his weapon of choice is perfectly in keeping with his Court.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Martin's Xanatos Roulette]]
* in changes it is revealed that Martin manipulated events so that Harry could turn the bloodline curse against the reds. The problem is that it would have required a lot of factors to line up perfectly (they'd have to arrive after the theoretical crossbow was ready but before the actual sacrifice, Harry his friends and the red king would all have to be in the chamber at the same time etc). It just seems overly convoluted.
** The impression I got is not that he planned for everyone to be in that room at that precise moment, but rather that he walked in and [[NotSoDifferent like Harry]], improvised in such a way that he could get into position without getting vaporized by the Red King so that Susan could attack him, kill him, get turned, and be used as the trigger for the spell. Less XanatosRoulette, and more XanatosSpeedChess coupled with IndyPloy. He didn't plan the whole thing out, he just improvised on the fly.
** Also, his overall plan wasn't "get everyone in that room at that exact moment so they can do exactly what I planned for them to do." It was "Give Harry the biggest reason possible to bring total war on the Red Court, let him do his thing." Martin is fully aware of what Harry's capable of; he was just being GenreSavvy.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Maggie's Protection]]
* When justifying sending Maggie away to live with some mortal family instead of with Harry, Susan says that Harry couldn't offer her anything other than "a life under siege". Fine. But why couldn't Susan have sent Maggie to Chicago not to live with Harry, but with the Carpenters? The Carpenters have an enormous family and they're Good People, so I highly doubt they would have so minded taking on one more, and on the "protection from the Red Court" front, I can't think of much better protection than living the '''Fist of God''' in a house protected by an ''archangel''. Harry could have even visited her and seen her without bringing her all that much danger. So in short, had Susan sent Maggie to live with the Carpenters, Susan would have had peace of mind, Maggie would have been safe, Harry would have been able to know about his daughter's existence, and even the Carpenters would have felt good about saving one more child. ''Everybody wins''.
** Well, except for the Red Court, obviously, but that's kind of a given.
** Did Susan even really know the Carpenters? Michael was Harry's friend for a while, but I don't recall if Susan was ever shown talking to him. While Harry trusts Michael with his life, Susan probably just didn't know them well enough to trust the family with something like that. Also, being protected by the Archangel didn't stop the Fetches from ransacking the place in ''Proven Guilty'', nor did it stop the Ick from attacking the place in Changes--and by the time the kidnapping plot occurs, it's well ''after'' Michael is out of action. That protection might keep them safe from run of the mill boogeymen, but it's not that great when the enemy attacks deliberately and in force.\\\
Plus, having the kid live with the Carpenters and be regularly visited by Harry would've thrown up all of the red flags that it was, in fact, Harry's kid. Priority one for Susan was ensuring that nobody knew it was Harry's and thus wouldn't use her as leverage.
** Maggie ''wouldn't'' be safe. Archangel protection only applies if the Knight is retired; if he's active in his duties, there's no holy angel sitting overhead. Furthermore, Michael isn't around 24/7, as shown by the fact that his family has been directly or indirectly attacked ''three freaking times'' by supernatural entities (Nicodemus throwing Lasciel's coin at little Harry, the fetches, and the gruffs) and there's no defense, supernatural or otherwise, against mortal goons. All the Reds would have to do is wait until Michael leaves to go a-Knighting, and then smash down the door, murder everyone, and take Maggie. Maggie's only defense is in ''nobody'' knowing who she is.\\
And as was noted above, Susan doesn't know much about Michael. She'd barely met him in ''Grave Peril'', and had minimal contact with him in ''Death Masks''. By the time she'd given birth she was back in South America, and while she likely could have gotten baby Maggie to Michael through indirect means via the Church, but the Church's capabilities are limited. Maggie would likely be tracked back to the States and the Reds would follow - and you ''know'' the Reds would take interest in a child who is obviously to one of the Carpenters' children being adopted by friends of Harry Dresden. Her only real hope is to find a family in South America willing to raise the kid and minimize contact.
** Point of irony: [[spoiler: in ''Ghost Story'', Maggie ''is'' now living with the Carpenters.]] Of course, this is after the guardian angels have been established following Michael being crippled.
* Different headscratcher: [[ViewerMyopia From the reader's point of view]], sending Maggie to live with the Carpenters is obviously the best solution: they're nice people and it's the safest place in the world for her. However, at the end of ''Changes'', Harry notes that she probably ''doesn't speak English'' (and it's never been suggested that any of the Carpenters speak Spanish). This is not a small problem even under the best of circumstances, much less for a child who was recently introduced to the supernatural world by way of watching her family get torn to shreds by people-eating monsters. I know the adults around her were primarily concerned with her safety, but it's still irritating that nobody mentions this.
** Why would anyone need to mention it? Its outside the scope of most of Harry's immediate concerns in ''Ghost Story''. It is a problem, but not an insurmountable one.
** As you said, ''Harry'', who hasn't actually talked to her, thinks she ''probably'' doesn't speak English. In truth? Harry, our narrator, has ''no idea'' what languages she speaks--and given that her mother's native language is English, and said mother did correspond with Maggie occasionally, it's pretty likely she did understand the language.
** Not to mention that Spanish is an extremely common language to learn in American high schools, in addition to Micheal possibly picking it up from his travels around the world.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Sex Is Better Than Blood?]]
* Okay, ''Death Masks''. I forget the exact circumstances, but Susan gets all vampy from overexertion, requiring Harry to tie her up with some unbreakable rope, which is only prudent, and the only thing keeping her from jumping him and sucking him dry (No, not like that. Well, not yet, anyway). Then, OneThingLedToAnother, etc. etc. Harry wakes up later, entwined with Susan, with that unbreakable rope untied, and she's not hungry for blood anymore.\\\
Mainly because I've gotten into the RPG and have started thinking of the in-book events in terms of game mechanics, how does this work? Did Harry, ahem, wear her out? Did slaking one urge [[AddictionDisplacement do the job for another?]]
** Yeah, it's strongly implied that he wore her out, exhausting her and overriding her vampire urges with...others. I suppose orgasms will do that.
*** Huh. No wonder half the females in the series want to get into his pants.
** Susan says outright that she "can't separate the hungers" when it comes to Harry. Lust for his body turns into lust for his blood, and vice-versa.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:How tough is the Winter Knight?]]
* I understand that he got some major power from the transformation but in one of his posts Jim ranked the Winter Knight in a decently high position of power (I am looking for the right link) so what can Harry do now that he's a Winter Knight?
** Winter Knight power varies depending on the Knight in question. Lloyd Slate admits this right to Harry that if he and Ruel had gone head to head, the old man would have smoked him. So, power is dependent on the individual and their talents and experience - kind of like wizards.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The lunatic fringe]]
We've heard Harry's explanation for why people ignore the paranormal. However, where are all the people that ''do'' believe in it without encountering it? According to Gallup polls, about half the people in the US believe in ESP, and a fifth believe in witches. Sure, there's Susan, but where's everybody else? How come no one's come to Harry and asked for some sort of proof that he's a wizard? Or asked if they have a burgeoning magical talent for this or that reason? Or even just some {{otherkin}} asking for help to regain their "true" body? People that don't believe in the supernatural seem to have no trouble finding Harry, so people actively looking for it should find him easily. Even if someone doesn't believe in it, there's got to be some dedicated debunkers that ask him for proof of wizardry. There might even be more people like that than in real life, as Harry's Chicago has a police branch that investigates the most-definitely-not-supernatural, which is ripe for conspiracy theories. Come to think of it, what does SI tell the public that they do?
* Because a lot of questions are being asked here, in order:
* ''How come no one's come to Harry and asked for some sort of proof that he's a wizard?'' Generally speaking, anyone asking for proof that he's a wizard is interested in the supernatural community; those whom he's demonstrated proof to effectively ''become'' part of the occult community through simply being exposed to said knowledge.
* ''Or asked if they have a burgeoning magical talent for this or that reason?'' That's why Harry has a bunch of pamphlets in his office discussing magic, and what he has done before for some people. If someone has some talent, he'll give them some advice and point them int he right direction, and maybe some training (for a fee, naturally). If someone has serious talent, he points them to the White Council, and they take it from there.
** We do see him with Kim in Fool Moon. She's a minor talent he's helping learn magic.
* ''Or even just some {{otherkin}} asking for help to regain their "true" body?'' This may fall into grey areas around the Laws of Magic. But regardless, see above on teaching.
* ''Even if someone doesn't believe in it, there's got to be some dedicated debunkers that ask him for proof of wizardry.'' And Harry would likely do his best to avoid them, as either they'll generate negative publicity for him, or they'll just not believe he's an actual wizard no matter what he does (magic shorting out recording devices doesn't help). Also keep in mind that some of these dedicated debunkers are in the employ of the bad guys, like Duke Ortega, who spends a significant amount of time debunking magic, including real magic.
** Larry Fowler who is still suing him last time we heard?
* '' Come to think of it, what does SI tell the public that they do?'' SI investigates weirdness. That ''is'' the public and professional image.
** Also, Harry is like ''one guy'' in the middle of a ''huge'' city; he's not a well known, public figure. Plus, he may be in the phone book, but be honest: When's the last time you opened a phone book? Hell, when's the last time you ''saw'' a phone book? Barely anyone uses them anymore, and Harry doesn't have a website, so to quite a lot of people out there, he's effectively anonymous.
*** Just to further the phone book issue; he's the ''one'' entry under "Wizards". It's not like "Auto Repair" or "Grocery Stores" where you have a good chance of hitting the section by accident opening the book at random. So anybody finding him under there was probably ''looking'' for a wizard already. We don't ever even see anything to suggest he's listed elsewhere in the book ("Private Investigators" would be likely, but I don't recall any mention of it.)
* On a more general note, I would imagine that those people who both believe in the supernatural and are willing to go look for it meet one of three fates. If they're lucky, they meet with the occult underground community or some of the kinder supernatural beings out there, and they eventually join that society or just hang around it and are told to keep quiet about it. If they're not so lucky, they might get turned away or get scared off by the supernatural when they actually find it, and end up going back to their normal lives. If they're unlucky, they stumble upon the monsters before they know any better, and then get eaten or enslaved by whoever finds them. The Vampire Courts, the Winter Fae, and all the other supernatural baddies seem to have no problem getting servants and food from the mortal population, so I think those beings all have ways of drawing clueless mortals to them as a method of getting easy prey.
* And just because people believe in the supernatural (like this troper) for instance, doesn't mean they necessarily go looking for it. And it doesn't mean they'd actually believe it if they saw it. Believing something might exist and coming face to face with it are two completely different things.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Doom of Damocles]]
* So the Doom requires a sponsor and the accused. If the accused does something wrong, the sponsor is proven wrong as well and gets killed along with the accused. So why is Harry running around in Storm Front with the Doom still over him, and Ebenezar is apparently unconcerned?
** Incorrect. The Doom of Damocles itself does not require a sponsor. Rehabilitation of a warlock requires a sponsor until the warlock has been judged to be properly trained, and both the warlock and the sponsor are under the Doom during this time. Once the warlock is judged to be capable of operating on their own, they are released to work on their own, with a probation officer assigned to keep an eye on them and lop off their head if they relapse.
*** Alright then. That makes more sense...
* Another thing. What happens if the sponsor dies? Shouldn't that cancel the Doom and kill the accused as well? So since Harry just died, shouldn't Molly get killed?
** Maybe. If the sponsoring wizard dies, another will need to take up the duty of teaching the warlock. If no one is willing to do so, Molly will be executed as a matter of course. So three things are likely to happen: The Council puts out the choppy order on Molly, another wizard intervenes and becomes her master until she's judged fit for duty on her own, or the Council will test her to see if she qualifies as a full wizard in her own right and assign probation. It is also possible that Harry might be resurrected before the Council even realizes he's dead, depending on how Ghost Story plays out; remember that during Changes the Council is in complete chaos due to Ramirez's uprising, Luccio's detention, and the sickness spread through Edinburgh, so it might take some time for them to respond to anything.
*** The Ghost Story preview chapters state it's been 9 months since Harry died, and while Molly's status hasn't been covered yet, I'd think they'd have realized by then. Even Aftermath was 6 months after, by Side Jobs' reckoning. (Or so I remember...) I think Ebenezar would take over. And do a lot of grumbling next time he can talk to Harry.
*** What? Aftermath started about 45 minutes after Changes ended. This is stated explicitly right at the start of the story.
** According to Ghost Story, it's only been six months, but without Harry around the Council ''has'' been trying to pass sentence on Molly and kill her. They're mostly tied up dealing with the fallout of the Red Court extinction, so one warlock is just a drop in the ocean compared with the fighting erupting in the resulting power vacuum. Molly's also damned good at avoiding being caught.
*** Murphy says that Carlos has come by looking for Molly at least once, but he's dragging his feet - and presumably has much bigger problems on his hands.
*** Yeah, Ramirez's "looking for Molly" is probably along the lines of, "Hi Murph, you haven't seen Molly, right? No? Okay, I'll be on my way bye."
[[/folder]]
[[folder: The Lightning Gate]]
* After the Battle Of Chichen Itza the team was able to leap right back to Chicago. If that was the case, why not jump straight to the point 5 miles out of Chichen Itza?
** They needed a target to center the gate at; Vadderung couldn't just open the gate in the middle of the center of the Red Court's power. Lea had to place a beacon of some sort that allowed for the gate to open, which is kind of why she threw that beacon down in the first place. Also keep in mind that Vadderung was with Ebenezar and the Grey Council and was not privy to Harry's exact plan.
** Remember what Vadderung says when Harry goes to meet him. At that time, in that place, the Red King is as strong, or stronger, than he is. He simply wouldn't have been able to make such a portal without the Red King at least being distracted.
[[/folder]]
[[folder: Thomas and Justine in Ghost Story]]
* It was really sweet and all, but really? He can't touch a scarf she made for him as a token of her love in previous books and now he can touch her?
** Once the True Love Protection is gone (which she is trying to invoke at the end of ''Ghost Story''), yeah.
*** ...via threesomes?
** ...yeah? The mechanics of the protection caused by true love have already been ''very'' clearly established. So long as Justine's last intimate contact was with someone who possesses true love for her, that remains a part of her life energy that the White Court feeds on. If she has sex with someone who is not in love with her, that protection is gone and she can be fed on again by any White Court vampire who feeds on lust. So Justine's solution is very simple; have sex with someone who doesn't love her, then she can have sex with Thomas. The process of doing so will again result in her being protected by true love. Rinse and repeat.\\
It's the ''exact'' same thing as what happened to Harry after he started sleeping with Luccio. She didn't truly love him, and thus he lost the protection that Susan's love for him had conferred, allowing Madeline to use her WC powers on him. There is nothing contradictory about Thomas and Justine.
*** Thank you, I finally got what the 'Rinse and Repeat' part was about. Oh, that had been bugging me for hours.
* OP here, I understand how they are getting around it I just think it's bogus when you add in the fact that White Court Vampires can't touch things which are a token of love, eg. weddings rings, the scarf Justine made. Harry having sex with Luccio kinda means that he's not so in love with Susan anymore. Justine is just trying to get close to Thomas. It just makes no sense to me that he presumably can't touch the scarf but he can touch her.
** Objects and tokens of affection have a clearly different effect from physical contact. This is one of the consistent rules within the setting (like only inherited silver working against loup-garou). Tokens of affection burn regardless of whether the Hunger in question is trying to feed. Remember that the rules surrounding magic and supernatural beings are at times arbitrary - see the faeries and the vast web of restrictions and specific rules that govern them. Compared with them, the behavior of objects created or gifted as tokens of love is nothing.
** Moreover, a person can nullify the protective effect of their love by having sex with someone other than their beloved. Such intimacy, even if done with the full consent of the beloved, is at least symbolic of betrayal: of throwing over the beloved for somebody else. An object given out of love can't go cheat on the recipient sexually, and thus discard the protective effect; to ruin a love-gift's protection, you'd probably have to do something else that's symbolic of the end of love, such as dropping a wedding ring down the sewer grating in front of a courthouse where the couple just finalized a messy divorce.
* Plus, how would that even work, when does sex end? at orgasm? because thats going to be an awkward place to have blisters. Not until the snuggling's finished? That seems like its stretching it a bit.
** It's not clear, but we know that it likely occurs sometime after the intimacy ends. Thomas was able to finish having sex with Justine in Blood Rites before she became protected by his love, so more likely than not the protection is only conferred afterward. Of course, this is likely specific to the individuals involved, like a lot of Dresden magic.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:A Shout Out Missed?]]
Jim Butcher is OneOfUs, and ''definitely'' a Marvel fan as well. So how is it that when he puts Harry up against a skull in a Nazi uniform, he ''doesn't'' [[CaptainAmerica turn that skull red somehow?]]
* Assuming he ever does make that particular ShoutOut, maybe he's [[SequelHook saving it for a more logical time to turn the skull red]].
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Explosion positions]]
When Harry detonates the gas pumps to, for lack of a better term, banish He Who Walks Behind, he has the pumps at his back and sends the fire over his shoulder, as HWWB always comes from, well, behind. However, he describes the explosion as knocking him "on [his] ass", even though it came from behind him. Did the explosion make him do a flip or is this just a minor goof, as in the minivan example above?
* The explosion likely spun him around or lifted him up. Force generated by expanding air from improvised gasoline explosions do not hit with uniform, perfectly spherical shapes.
** The narration mentions nothing about him being spun around, and getting spun at all is incredibly unlikely anyway; he's got his feet on the ground, so any applied force would be much more likely to push him forward than around.
** It's an expression. I've said the same thing about particularly hot buffalo wings and not once has a piece of chicken literally knocked me on my kiester.
*** There's a big difference between using it to describe food and using it to describe exploding gas stations. In this situation, the literal usage is much more likely.
*** Yes, but it doesn't mean it's a goof if Harry did not literally end up squarely on his buttocks. He was describing how strong the explosion was, not giving a clinical physics analysis of the forces at work and exactly how they affected his body as it was pushed into the air by the shockwave. Good lord do people take things way too damn literally sometimes.
**** But when Harry describes HWWB dying, he describes it as a "not-figure" in the fire, where the fire goes around something invisible. He can only see HWWB in reflections, and turning doesn't necessarily change where HWWB is, because he saw the cashier get ripped apart without looking in a reflection. Because Harry can't see HWWB, he's not looking at the gas station windows, assuming they're still intact from the explosion.
*** So there's your answer. The explosion hit him in such a way that he got turned around, and was thus looking in HWWB's direction, therefore he fell on his ass.
**** Which, as I've said, is incredibly unlikely, and nothing is mentioned about Harry getting spun around. I'm thinking this is just a goof.
*** "Incredibly unlikely," based on what? Also, you just said that Harry's description of it means he's turned around--ergo, there's mention of him being turned around.
**** Incredibly unlikely based on physics. While an improvised gas station explosion would, as you said, not be perfectly spherical, most of the force would be away from the pumps. When was the last time you saw an explosion in a movie turn someone around, rather than bowling them over or launching them through the air? And there's no ''mention'' of him being turned around; he's facing away from the pumps when he sprays fire, then towards them when they explode, without anything in between.
*** He'd actually have to be half-turned to do the attack in the first place. He's spraying the flames from his open palm, after all, which would need him to at least twist his torso about so he could angle his arm to aim at HWWB. If he's already half-turned, the force of the explosion is going to hit him at the angle, and is more likely to turn him.
**** If he was half-turned, I could accept that. But it's not hard to just point your hand over your shoulder, which is how I interpreted it happening. Try it.
*** Yeah, but I don't have a plume of fire coming out of my palm. Putting your hand over your shoulder puts your hand right next to your ear. Not mentioning getting turned around is one thing, but I have to imagine Harry's narration would've mentioned it if he scorched the side of his own head in the process.
**** Magic. Harry's contained heat from fire before; the ball of fire he uses on Molly is twelve hundred degrees, but nothing bursts into flames or melts. And if it didn't scorch his palm, why should it scorch his shoulder? Plus, IIRC, the narration specifically mentions him sending it over his shoulder.
*** The heat is still there, magic or no. Harry's not very good at the subtle stuff like that--especially if it's the first time he's casting a spell of that size. The small ball of fire in particular he specifically says is something he took a lot of time and effort pre-preparing just for that occasion, and it's explicitly ''not'' something he is capable of putting together on the fly. I recall the narration mentioning him sweeping the flame side-to-side when he's attacking HWWB which would have been hard to do without melting his ears off if he's holding his hand the way you're suggesting.
**** The narration specifically mentions Harry sticking his hand over his shoulder. Besides, he has to control the heat at least somewhat; throwing that much fire around means he'll get burned at arm's length if he doesn't keep the heat off in some way. Think of a fire in a fireplace or fire pit, and multiply it by a hundred.
*** Nowhere in the passage (I'm looking at pages 288-290 in the hardcover) does it specify that he's putting his hand over his shoulder. All it says is Harry "extended my right hand back toward it." The only time his shoulder is mentioned is as part of how the heat is traveling down his arm to his hand. As for getting burned with his own heat, he specifically mentions smelling burned hairs even as he's gathering the power.\\\
He can certainly ''direct'' the heat well enough, but he can't get rid of it entirely--by pushing the heat forward, away from him, he protects himself from being burned by his own spells, but if his hand were over his shoulder, he'd have to be ''really'' flexible to get his hand far enough past his head where he wouldn't burn his own hair.\\\
Plus, once again, the passage says he sweeps the flame from side to side--which would ''definitely'' get his head scorched if he was doing it over his shoulder.
**** Okay. I probably misremembered it. So, in the name of simplicity: standing sideways, explosion turned him a bit.
**** Any kickback effect from throwing all that fire might've helped spin him around, too.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Joining the White Council]]
Exactly what does it take to join the White Council? It's not just age: Molly angsts that by the time the White Council takes her seriously, her youngest siblings will have died of old age. Harry Jr. was born in ''Grave Peril'', and since each book takes place roughly a year after the previous one, he's about ten now, so with the American life expectancy at about eighty years, Molly will be about ninety when Harry Jr. dies, but main-character Harry is less than forty. Ramirez mentions a test of some kind in ''White Night'', but it's not clear whether it measures skill, power, or some combination of the two. Molly ''is'' mentioned as being skilled, but not very powerful, and if a wizard's power grows as they age, it's possible that Molly won't be powerful enough to be considered for membership until then.
* The precise requirements are not clear, but you need to be able to use multiple forms of magic with enough skill and capability. Molly angsting that she'll be accepted as a wizard by the time her family is dying of old age is simply inaccurate, as Harry was accepted as a member of the White Council in his early twenties, Elaine could have joined at the same age, and Ramirez joined in his teens along with a lot of other young Wardens. Molly's wrong, but there's nothing new about that.
** The requirements are that you have to be at least capable of all varieties of Thaumaturgy as well as Evocation. Molly isn't angsting about how old she'll have to be to be ''on'' the White Council, she's saying that that's how long until anyone ''respects'' her as a wizard. Seeing as she's the former/possibly-still Warlock who's been trained by what most of the council thinks of as "Lucifer: The Next Generation", and the state she's in when she says that, I'd argue she's got a point.
* The earlier books suggest that there are particular requirements; ''Summer Knight'', in particular, states that there are "Trials" for a full-fledged wizard to overcome. The Senior Council members say that Harry never had to endure the trials because he defeated Justin DuMorne in a duel, which presumably fulfills the requirements. Also remember that at that White Council meeting, Harry says that he is the youngest wizard there out of several hundred by at least a few decades. As for the younger Wardens, it's possible that there are Wardens specifically trained in combat that don't necessarily fulfill the requirements of full White Council membership, but that's digging into WildMassGuessing territory.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Lord Raith's Whereabouts and Mental Stability ]]
* When the Skinwalker attacks the manor in Turn Coat Lara asks Justine for a head count, and Justine rattles off her sisters and Madeline being present. No mention is made of her father,which while it's understandable that he wouldn't be doing any fighting, it's also a good idea to be able to keep track of your figurehead's whereabouts especially when a demigod attacks the house. Also just how in control of himself is Papa Raith?, as he's clearly able to function enough to host a meeting between the other House Leaders and I'm sure they'd be able to sense any White court-style mental tampering.
** Why would his whereabouts be an issue? Lara likely knows exactly where he is and maintains a guard detail to keep track of exactly where he is. Besides, Lara doesn't need to know where he is; she specifically asks "how many of the blood" are "in the house" - which means she needs to know how many of her family are present that can move around on their own. Lord Raith is almost certainly inside the house, so Lara doesn't need to be updated as to his location; she already knows where he is. And why should the White Court be able to detect mental tampering? They've never once at any point in the series demonstrated the ability to readily detect mental tampering in others. Don't assume they have an ability they've never shown.
** White Court vamps clearly have no ability to "detect" mental tampering--even if they were the ones doing the tampering. When Lord Raith first meets Murphy, he tries to put the whammy on her, and she resists--but he still believes it worked. If the King of the White Court can't tell that ''his own'' mental tampering didn't work on someone standing less than five feet away from him, what makes you think that anyone else in the court is going to be able to tell he's been whammied himself?
*** He wasn't using his Hunger powers on Murphy, he couldn't remember? He was just attacking her psychologically.
*** Feeding on her =/= putting the mental whammy on her. He could still ''induce'' emotions in others, he just couldn't ''feed'' on them anymore.
*** Yeah, the description of what he's doing to her clearly described Papa Raith as inducing lust against her will. He appeared to have misjudged its effectiveness on her.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Carpenter Angelic Defenses]]
In Ghost stories it shows that the Carpenter house is the [[OnePiece Impel Down]] of the Dresden verse. Around two dozens of angels (each a OneManArmy unto themselves) guarding 24/7 365 days, making it literally one of the most protected places in the world against the supernatural. But seeing this, how was Nicodemus capable of coming close to the House in Small Favor? or throw the Denarian coin to little Harry, forcing Harry to be possesed by the Fallen Angel in Death Mask?. Isn't this the kind of things that the Angels are supposed to protect them for? Or how where the servants of Winter capable of assaulting the family and abduct Molly to the Never/never? Is the protection only existing recently because Michael is crippled and if this is the case, why they didn't do anything when the crazy militant father decided to rob the swords? Kind of confusing, since the Angles were shown to take the matter very, very, ''very'' seriously.
* The angels are part of the Knights' "retirement package." Simply put, they weren't there until Michael was forced to give up the Sword. As for the events of The Warrior, as I recall the guy never assailed the house direction, which is what the Angels were protecting. He grabbed Michael's daughter from softball practice, and when he tried to jump Harry he wasn't in the house.
* Also, I'm pretty sure it's been stated that the angels will only protect Michael from supernatural threats.
** Yes to both of the above. The angels are only there to protect against supernatural threats, and were only posted once Michael retired. Their entire purpose is to protect Michael's family from retaliation now that he no longer has the Sword. If Michael were to take up the Sword again, the angels would be recalled and his family would be vulnerable to attack again. And the angels only act against supernatural threats. Father Roarke was a mortal and thus they couldn't act against him. I also believe that they would intervene if someone threatens the Carpenters outside their home too, at least until they reach Molly's age and move out.\\
IIRC, it is explicitly stated that this is the case in Changes when Susan asks Harry if Michael would be willing to help him.
*** Okay, so what stopped Nicodemus to kill the Carpenter's Family while Michael was out? Or any other denarius taking a shot before the retire package was on? I mean, the guy ''knew'' where they lived, what they did and even tried to condemn little Harry as a living weapon (showing that nothing stopped him to act) and Nicodemus was ruthless enough and savvy enough (not to mention petty) to had the lot killed just to hurt one of the swords. That would fit in their modus operandus. If the carpenters didn't posses enough protection to stop low level Faerie spirits or a middle ground warrior to snatch their daughter or they where unprotected while out of the house, how can they still be alive after declaring war to the heavy weights of the spirit world with who knows how many fanatical warriors at their disposal and money to hire ''mortal'' mercenaries if needed?.
*** Do you know what happens if someone does lasting harm to the Carpenter family? Michael happens. The Fist of God comes down on you like, well, the '''Fist of God'''. The protection a Sword wielder's family has is the Sword wielder himself. Nicodemus doesn't just want to ''hurt'' one of the Knights; he wants to destroy them and the swords themselves. Killing the Carpenter kids does nothing but make Michael want to hunt him down personally, immediately.\\\
Remember, Nicodemus is the long term planner. What stopped him from slaughtering the Carpenter household? It wouldn't further his plans. All it would do was make the wielder of the most powerful of the three Swords come after him personally. There's no benefit to Nicodemus in this scenario.
*** Killing the Carpenters won't do him any good except piss off a Knight of the Cross even further. There's no point to it, no profit to it, and there's a good chance it will provoke Harry Dresden into pulling out the stops, picking up the big sticks, and going after him. But mostly its because he doesn't care. He's got more important people to kill, ore important plots to hatch, and far greater priorities than a spite killing.\\
Not to mention that this ''is'' a Knight of the Cross here. If Nicodemus were to seriously attempt to kill the Carpenters, there's about a 100% probability that Big G is going to prod probability to have Sanya end up at Michael's house at the right moment and that Michael will return just before the attack hits. That's how the Knights roll. Remember that both times that the Carpenter family was actually attacked by a supernatural force (the Nightmare attacking Charity, the fetches attacking and kidnapping Molly), probability was twisted so that events played out so that they got out mostly unscathed.
*** Nicodemus is not scared of Michael. He had killed ''hundreds'' of Knights of the swords through history. Even Michael stated that to defeat a ''single Denarian'' let alone ''the strongest one'', they prefered three to one odds. Hiro was legendary in the fact that he could kill a Denarian single handely and even "survived" a confrontation against Nicodemus and Michael accepted he was ''nowhere'' near his level. And he will not face Michael alone or fairly. He is also not afraid of Harry. Once again, is the other way around and Harry managed to won thanks to blind luck, as always. Even so, Michael stated that you can't use the sword for personal reasons, so he could go and bring him "divine justice ". In fact, twisting Michael into rage ''would be'' a very devious and smart move from Nicodemus: either he is hurt and broken or he decided to hunt him against the tenets of the Lord (Vengenace Is Mine) and even manipulate Harry in somekind of plan (somehow, who Knows. I'm not a millenary old fallen angel). Also, isn't (trying) condeming his youngest child in becoming the very abomination he hunt an act that might piss him off?. And about GOD... that seems to be a cheap cop out, to be honest. You got a DeusExMachina at your bet and call so you can make any excuse and put it as "divine internvention" or "God works in mysterious way" and be done with it. You couldn't even said: well, Nicodemus had slaughtered other Knigts, assaulted their stronghold to burn down any information about them, hunt down those who could possibly know anything about them (including the Archive) but he loves Michael '''''so''''' very much that is going to put his foot down, so there. Even if you point that Faeries and mortal can act against them and somehow managed to come out fine, it was thanks to God and not their effort, decision and luck and you can't ''logically'' discuss it. Also, wasn't Uriel who stated that Heaven can't act or alterate the World to their desire to allow humans free will?. But that is discussion for another moment. So, another reason why Carpenter's where untouchable before the retiring package that is not "God's mysterious (offscreen) will" that you can think of?.
*** No one said Nicodemus was ''afraid'' of either Michael or Harry (except for WordOfGod post-Small Favor regarding Harry). However, he ''respects'' both of them in terms of the threat they represent, and he ''is'' afraid of the Swords. He shows this quite clearly when Harry pegs the one thing that seems to scare him - the possibility of mortality, be it a Sword lopping off his head or getting choked to death on his own noose. Even the off-chance that death ''might'' happen is an unsettling and terrifying thought to Nicodemus. One bad turn of luck is all Nicodemus needs to find himself on a quick trip to Downbelow, so he's going to mitigate those chances wherever he can.\\
In addition, just because the Knights nor Harry could present a serious threat to Nicodemus' personal health doesn't mean that he wouldn't be afraid of them getting involved. Harry doesn't need to kill Nicodemus to derail his plans, and the Knights specialize in derailing Denarian plots. Harry just needs to be a greater thorn in Nicodemus' side as an active opponent than he would be if he stayed put, and Nicodemus has all the reason he needs to avoid provoking him. He'd likely ignore the Carpenters on that basis alone, because a Harry Dresden who is actively fighting against and disrupting Nicodemus' plans is very bad news and something he'd really want to avoid.
*** ''Even so, Michael stated that you can't use the sword for personal reasons, so he could go and bring him "divine justice ".'' No. A Sword can only be misused if the user willing turns it against its purpose. Use of ''Amoraccius'' to escape debts is a misuse of its power. Use of ''Amoraccius'', the Sword of Love, to bring divine justice for the deaths of the ones one loves would not likely be a misuse.
*** ''In fact, twisting Michael into rage ''would be'' a very devious and smart move from Nicodemus: either he is hurt and broken or he decided to hunt him against the tenets of the Lord (Vengenace Is Mine)'' While it would be "clever", it could easily backfire on him. Michale might not go into a blind fury. Michael could simply redouble his dedication to fighting Nicodemus and his ilk. Nicodemus wouldn't really know how Michael would react, for good or ill, so he's unlikely to directly attack Michael's family. Nicodemus can't be certain, so he's not going to risk it without some ulterior gain; he's a plotter, but not a gambler.
*** ''Also, isn't (trying) condeming his youngest child in becoming the very abomination he hunt an act that might piss him off?.'' Quite possibly, but Nicodemus' actions were not intended to piss Michael off. They were intended to either ensnare Harry or ensnare Michael's son. We know Michael witnessed the act, but we don't know what his immediate reaction was except gratitude that Harry had protected his son.
*** ''And about GOD... that seems to be a cheap cop out, to be honest. You got a DeusExMachina at your bet and call so you can make any excuse and put it as "divine internvention" or "God works in mysterious way" and be done with it.'' Alteration of probability to assist in the protection of a Knight's loved ones has been demonstrated before in the series. Coincidence always helps the Knights to achieve their goals; this is demonstrable fact. You don't like it, tough. Cry some fucking more.\\
More importantly, Nicodemus knows this. He would recognize the danger of targeting the Carpenter family directly because Big G has the capacity to alter probability to put a Sword in his way. It might not be flawless, but the possibility is enough of a danger that Nicodemus would be unlikely to take the risk. As said before, he's a plotter, ''not'' a gambler. The only time he takes a risk is when either outcome benefits him.
*** ''Also, wasn't Uriel who stated that Heaven can't act or alterate the World to their desire to allow humans free will?'' No. Uriel never said that. He said they couldn't directly intervene when someone was facing the consequences of their actions. They certainly seem fully capable of altering probability to aid the Knights in their endeavors; there's just too many instances of events lining up perfectly for the Knights and their allies to be in position so that they could act. That's a fact within the setting.
*** And again, you're not addressing the primary point I made before: Nicodemus ''has more important things to do'' than muck around with Michael's family. The only times he's ever made even a threat toward said family was when he happened to be in Chicago and it favored his interests. Otherwise, he has no particular reason to target them, because they don't matter, they won't help his plans in any way, and he's got bigger things to deal with. Nicodemus is ''not'' the kind of person who kills for shits and giggles; every murder he perpetrates is calculated. The only benefit he might gain is that he ''might'' piss off Michael and Harry, but that's not guaranteed and could result in Michael and Harry stomping all over whatever plans he's cooking up elsewhere in the world. Nicodemus is quite content with Harry staying in Chicago and holding one of the Three instead of angry, mobile, and actively looking for either someone else to take up the Sword or taking it up himself. Also keep in mind that Harry is packing Lasciel's shadow, who can supply Lasciel's coin, and if Harry gets pissed, he might just take it up - and his first target would be Nicodemus.
*** Nicodemus didn't survive for 2000 years and kill hundreds of Knights of the Cross by being petty and picking fights he didn't have to. That would be a stupid way for an intelligent villain to operate, and it would've gotten him killed centuries ago.
