History Headscratchers / TheBorgias

18th Jun '17 4:45:15 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Also blonde hair is a recessive trait, which can be carried for generations without manifesting in the phenotype. According to ThatOtherWiki, in contemporary accounts "[s]he is described as having heavy blonde hair which fell past her knees, a beautiful complexion, hazel eyes which constantly changed colour," and so forth. And although not all the attributions are certain, here are [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Dossi_dossi%2C_lucrezia_borgia%2C_1518_circa02.jpg some]] [[http://www.digitaltimes.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/lucrezia-borgia-by-bartolomeo-veneziano.jpg probable portraits]] [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Lucretia_Borgia_Pinturicchio.jpg of her]]. Granted, the descriptions may play fast and loose with the truth in order to make her fit more closely with the Petrarchan standard of feminine beauty, but we have to go with the information we have from the period.

to:

*** Also blonde hair is a recessive trait, which can be carried for generations without manifesting in the phenotype. According to ThatOtherWiki, Wiki/ThatOtherWiki, in contemporary accounts "[s]he is described as having heavy blonde hair which fell past her knees, a beautiful complexion, hazel eyes which constantly changed colour," and so forth. And although not all the attributions are certain, here are [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Dossi_dossi%2C_lucrezia_borgia%2C_1518_circa02.jpg some]] [[http://www.digitaltimes.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/lucrezia-borgia-by-bartolomeo-veneziano.jpg probable portraits]] [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Lucretia_Borgia_Pinturicchio.jpg of her]]. Granted, the descriptions may play fast and loose with the truth in order to make her fit more closely with the Petrarchan standard of feminine beauty, but we have to go with the information we have from the period.
29th Mar '17 8:27:10 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** I would like to correct that the historical Giulia Farnese wasn't actually naturally blonde and had blue-eyes. According to historical Cesare, she was described to had "dark coloring, black eyes, round face and a particular ardor." Giulia was said to dyed her hair blonde, similar to what Lucrezia did. This was due to the Renaissance paintings that often exaggerated the beauty of their subject and less than what the actual person look like. The paintings of Lucrezia were no exception to this (see above). Again, this shows the era's preference for blonde and blue eyes.

to:

*** **** I would like to correct that the historical Giulia Farnese wasn't actually naturally blonde and had blue-eyes. According to historical Cesare, she was described to had "dark coloring, black eyes, round face and a particular ardor." Giulia was said to dyed her hair blonde, similar to what Lucrezia did. This was due to the Renaissance paintings that often exaggerated the beauty of their subject and less than what the actual person look like. The paintings of Lucrezia were no exception to this (see above). Again, this shows the era's preference for blonde and blue eyes.



*** Similarly, her daughter [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon Catherine of Aragon]] was also said to have the same features - (strawberry)-blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair skin.)

to:

*** **** Similarly, her daughter [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon Catherine of Aragon]] was also said to have the same features - (strawberry)-blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair skin.)
29th Mar '17 8:15:20 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** Ironically, the problem might stem from the fact that [[RealityIsUnrealistic there aren't ''enough'' blondes in the show]]. The real Vanozza, as seen in [[http://theborgias.wetpaint.com/page/Vanozza+dei+Cattanei this portrait]], was blonde like Lucrezia but she is portrayed by a brunette actress in the show. So was [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulia_Farnese Giulia Farnese]] for that matter - the fact Rodrigo was a blondes man probably had something to do with those incest rumours.
*** I would like to correct that the historical Giulia Farnese wasn't actually naturally blonde and had blue-eyes. According to historical Cesare, she was described to had "dark coloring, black eyes, round face and a particular ardor." Giulia was said to dye her hair blonde, similar to what Lucrezia did.

to:

*** Ironically, the problem might stem from the fact that [[RealityIsUnrealistic there aren't ''enough'' blondes in the show]]. The real Vanozza, as seen in [[http://theborgias.wetpaint.com/page/Vanozza+dei+Cattanei this portrait]], was blonde like Lucrezia but she is portrayed by a brunette actress in the show. So was [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulia_Farnese Giulia Farnese]] for that matter - the fact Rodrigo was a blondes man probably had something to do with those incest rumours.
rumors.
*** I would like to correct that the historical Giulia Farnese wasn't actually naturally blonde and had blue-eyes. According to historical Cesare, she was described to had "dark coloring, black eyes, round face and a particular ardor." Giulia was said to dye dyed her hair blonde, similar to what Lucrezia did.did. This was due to the Renaissance paintings that often exaggerated the beauty of their subject and less than what the actual person look like. The paintings of Lucrezia were no exception to this (see above). Again, this shows the era's preference for blonde and blue eyes.
29th Mar '17 8:08:47 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

**** I would like to correct that the historical Giulia Farnese wasn't actually naturally blonde and had blue-eyes. According to historical Cesare, she was described to had "dark coloring, black eyes, round face and a particular ardor." Giulia was said to dye her hair blonde, similar to what Lucrezia did.


Added DiffLines:

**** Similarly, her daughter [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon Catherine of Aragon]] was also said to have the same features - (strawberry)-blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair skin.)
25th Dec '16 8:17:19 PM Salsh_Loli
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** With all the reasons above, the Borgia's reputation was damaged further with the rise of Protestantism - Protestants who used the Borgia notably to justify their reformation from the corruption of the Church, pointing out the nepotism, incest, and such which villfied them further.
15th Oct '14 3:46:10 PM Siberianchan
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Season 3, episode 2, Alexander has a nightmare about Juan and wakes up, with Cesare next to him. He then calls Cesare 'our only son'. I understand that it reffers to Juan's death, but what about Joffre? Did he just forget about him?

to:

* Season 3, episode 2, Alexander has a nightmare about Juan and wakes up, with Cesare next to him. He then calls Cesare 'our only son'. I understand that it reffers to Juan's death, but what about Joffre? Did he just forget about him?him?
** Well, the series hd forgotten about Joffre at that point in general. On a more historical note, Alexander was never THAT fond of his youngest and even doubted him to be his son (after all Vanozza was married and resembled her a lot - while having nothing in common with his siblings or Alexander, neither in looks, nor in ambition, intellignce or temperament.) Basically, he had him married off to Napoli and thought he could forget him until he noticed that his daughter-in-law was a famed beauty of her time and that it might be smart to keep relations with the Aragon family somewhat stable. In short, without Sancia for his wife (being, well... Sancia) Joffre would have been completely ignored by him after his marriage and departure.
2nd Sep '13 7:35:52 AM Gwalch
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** As of the most recent episode, it has become clear that this loyalty has spread to Lucrezia as well; he makes it abundantly clear that his backing of her in Naples goes beyond the mercenary, and he verges on being blatant when he suggests the King's non-natural death.

to:

*** As of the most recent episode, it has become clear that this loyalty has spread to Lucrezia as well; he makes it abundantly clear that his backing of her in Naples goes beyond the mercenary, and he verges on being blatant when he suggests the King's non-natural death.death.
* Season 3, episode 2, Alexander has a nightmare about Juan and wakes up, with Cesare next to him. He then calls Cesare 'our only son'. I understand that it reffers to Juan's death, but what about Joffre? Did he just forget about him?
16th May '13 3:44:43 AM BoredMe
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Micheletto is loyal to Cesare because [[spoiler: Micheletto is gay, officially since season 2 episode 5, but c'mon that whipping scene in the pilot?!]] and kinda likes the idea of getting with someone like Cesare and then that resulting in someone more messed up than him. Killing doesn't mean anything anymore to Micheletto. He's a kinda a psychopath, a commissioned serial killer than an assassin ( you see him kill people that he wasn't even told to ). So the idea of ruining someone's life so badly just so he can have someone to relate to, that basically what Micheletto wants. He just wants someone.

to:

** Micheletto is loyal to Cesare because [[spoiler: Micheletto is gay, officially since season 2 episode 5, but c'mon that whipping scene in the pilot?!]] and kinda likes the idea of getting with someone like Cesare and then that resulting in someone more messed up than him. Killing doesn't mean anything anymore to Micheletto. He's a kinda a psychopath, a commissioned serial killer than an assassin ( you see him kill people that he wasn't even told to ). So the idea of ruining someone's life so badly just so he can have someone to relate to, that basically what Micheletto wants. He just wants someone.someone.
*** As of the most recent episode, it has become clear that this loyalty has spread to Lucrezia as well; he makes it abundantly clear that his backing of her in Naples goes beyond the mercenary, and he verges on being blatant when he suggests the King's non-natural death.
16th May '13 12:53:48 AM shockvaluecola
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Because the show is shot in English and the pronunciations used are more natural to English speakers than those.
16th May '13 12:49:38 AM shockvaluecola
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Your question was already answered: because they lost. Seriously, that's the entire reason. They were much vilified and written about in a terrible way at the time primarily because they were Spaniards who had set up and taken power in Italy, and people didn't like that. People were hypocrites and the Borgias were foreigners, that's why they have such a bad reputation. (Also, they had some women with the gall to not take shit, notably Lucrezia. Historically she's been absolutely lampooned as pretty much the ultimate evil woman, but historians are now pretty sure that she was cunning, but generally good-natured and a survivor of abuse. That was not acceptable in the time either, and while some got away with it, she had it on top of being a foreigner, part of a hated family, illegitimate child of a pope...etc.)
This list shows the last 10 events of 28. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.TheBorgias