History Headscratchers / TheBible

29th Dec '17 3:08:22 PM dieseldragons
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[[folder: Was Free Will God's decision? Or Satan's meddling?]]

It seems to be pretty explicit that in the scriptures, God's not exactly a 'big fan' of his creation [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill answering back and doing as they please]]. He's quick to punish those who go against his will.

Now, many theists have argued the opposite, that Free Will comes from God's own omniscience, he does not want robots for creations, and he respects our choices. If this were the case, he would not have labelled any perceived transgression against him as "Sin" and reward it with death. He would not be surrounded by Angels who tend to his every whim [[YesMan for fear of swift exile from his presence if they don't obey]]. If he respected Free Will, we would not go to Hell, but rather, like the Prodigal Son asking for his inheritance, we go wherever we choose, for better or for worse.

This begs the question - why even have Free Will at all if its pointless at best, or results in immediate consequence at worse? If he doesn't approve of our decisions, then was this Satan's own doing in corrupting Adam and Eve somehow? Aka "original sin"?

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24th Dec '17 8:18:00 AM FireBoss
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*** Disproportionate maybe, but not fair. Heaven and hell apparently operate under the same kind of reward punishment system. Everyone who goes to heaven is treated with the same kind of reward an infinite amount of pleasure even though not everyone there has done the same amount of good. So yes, one's treatment in the afterlife is not a direct measurement of the amount of good or evil that done in their life. He simply sees it as those who follow his way and those who don't. It's like school yout either meet the standard or you don't simple as that. God has no obligation to create a third destination since no one dirctly benefits from it except the people who don't follow his way.the afterlife is simply a pass or fail system.

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*** Disproportionate maybe, but not fair.unfair. Heaven and hell apparently operate under the same kind of reward punishment system. Everyone who goes to heaven is treated with the same kind of reward an infinite amount of pleasure even though not everyone there has done the same amount of good. So yes, one's treatment in the afterlife is not a direct measurement of the amount of good or evil that done in their life. He simply sees it as those who follow his way and those who don't. It's like school yout you either meet the standard or you don't simple as that. God has no obligation to create a third destination since no one dirctly benefits from it except the people who don't follow his way.the afterlife is simply a pass or fail system.
15th Dec '17 12:50:00 PM littlebeeper
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*** [[RhetoricalQuestionBlunder Well]], logically the most recent person should have the most up-to-date information, [[ScienceMarchesOn science does march on]] and it would be ForScience!y their actions. Before God had to tell them full out, but the fruit gave them the godly ability of consequence which [[ComesGreatResponsibilty also comes with death if misused.]]. Since only an Omnibenevolent being could avoid making a single err, only an omnibenevlent being could gain the power of immortality while having the power of consequence. OR to better put it, Adman and Eve had and the fruit gave them God Mind but without God Soul they fell to Man Body (mortality).

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*** [[RhetoricalQuestionBlunder Well]], logically the most recent person should have the most up-to-date information, [[ScienceMarchesOn science does march on]] and it would be ForScience!y their actions. Before God had to tell them full out, but the fruit gave them the godly ability of consequence which [[ComesGreatResponsibilty [[ComesGreatResponsibility also comes with death if misused.]]. Since only an Omnibenevolent being could avoid making a single err, only an omnibenevlent being could gain the power of immortality while having the power of consequence. OR to better put it, Adman and Eve had and the fruit gave them God Mind but without God Soul they fell to Man Body (mortality).
15th Dec '17 12:47:53 PM littlebeeper
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*** [[RhetoricalQuestionBlunder Well]], logically the most recent person should have the most up-to-date information, [[ScienceMarchesOn science does march on]] and it would be ForScience!y their actions. Before God had to tell them full out, but the fruit gave them the godly ability of consequence which [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatResponsibilty also comes with death if misused.]]. Since only an Omnibenevolent being could avoid making a single err, only an omnibenevlent being could gain the power of immortality while having the power of consequence. OR to better put it, Adman and Eve had and the fruit gave them God Mind but without God Soul they fell to Man Body (mortality).

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*** [[RhetoricalQuestionBlunder Well]], logically the most recent person should have the most up-to-date information, [[ScienceMarchesOn science does march on]] and it would be ForScience!y their actions. Before God had to tell them full out, but the fruit gave them the godly ability of consequence which [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatResponsibilty [[ComesGreatResponsibilty also comes with death if misused.]]. Since only an Omnibenevolent being could avoid making a single err, only an omnibenevlent being could gain the power of immortality while having the power of consequence. OR to better put it, Adman and Eve had and the fruit gave them God Mind but without God Soul they fell to Man Body (mortality).
29th Sep '17 9:22:58 AM WarriorSparrow
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\n*** I think the reason that's not brought up in the Bible is because the writers didn't know that intersex people even existed. It is only about 1 in 2000 births, after all, the the geographical area in which the Bible takes place didn't encompass everyone in the world.

29th Sep '17 9:13:53 AM WarriorSparrow
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*** Not to mention there's ''nothing in the Bible'' about Satan "becoming prideful and wanting humans to worship him". That common misconception is a case of CriticalResearchFailure concerning Isaiah 14, as Lucifer is actually a Babylonian king and nothing to do with Satan. It's clear if you actually read all of the chapter and not projecting an incorrect assumption on verses 12-15.
29th Sep '17 5:39:33 AM WarriorSparrow
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*** Except "Lucifer" has nothing to do with Satan and never did. "Lucifer" was a term used for a Babylonian King in the proverb detailed in Isaiah 14. It's clear if you actually read the chapter, but people just think Lucifer is Satan due to going off of hearsay on verses 12-15 and a mass case of CriticalResearchFailure. There's nothing whatsoever about Satan revelling against God in any form. In fact, Satan worked for God in Job. Just clearing things up.



*** Except the serpent in Genesis was just said to be a serpent. The punishment to slither on the ground would make no sense otherwise.



** Not to mention ''Lucifer wasn't even Satan''. "Lucifer" was just a term for an arrogant Babylonian king. People just parrot that Lucifer is Satan because they read verses 12-15, assume that's what it means, and that's it. But Isaiah 14 ''as a whole'' clearly, unambiguously states that Lucifer/Morning Star is just a term for that arrogant Babylonian king. The fact that people assume otherwise is simply a frustratingly massive case of CriticalResearchFailure.




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*** Except they weren't tempted by Satan, just a serpent. And it's not that the knowledge would surpass even God's, it's that Adam and Eve would know what good and evil are ''period''. The serpent didn't lie in saying that they'd become like God, because they did through knowing good and evil—in that sense we're as much like God as the serpent said. The serpent's lie was that they wouldn't die, which they started to after eating from the tree.


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** I think that if they had eaten of the tree of life beforehand, nothing would have happened. After all, they were already immortal at the time, so it would have just been like us eating any other fruit. It was that they couldn't live forever while having knowledge. Which actually casts doubt onto the goodness of God's character—either you are ignorant and live forever or you know things but you die? Why can't we have both?
29th Sep '17 5:03:58 AM WarriorSparrow
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*** Except he didn't. That's actually a frustratingly common misconception, as the only supposed "trying to usurp God and cast down" thing in the Bible does not refer to Satan at all, and "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14 is directly stated to be the King of Babylon in a proverb—it's simply a widespread case of CriticalResearchFailure to think otherwise, as most people simply believe that verses 12-15 refer to Satan when a full read of the chapter shows that's not the case. The Bible itself gives no indication that Satan "fell" or tried to usurp God in any fashion. In fact the one main point where he appears at all is in Job, where he actually works for God like a prosecuting attorney.
28th Sep '17 10:53:48 PM FireBoss
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*** Disproportionate maybe but, not fair. Heaven and hell apparently operate under the same kind of reward punishment system. Everyone who goes to heaven is treated with the same kind of reward an infinite amount of pleasure even though not everyone there has done the same amount of good. So yes, one's treatment in the afterlife is not a direct measurement of the amount of good or evil that done in their life. He simply sees it as those who follow his way and those who don't. It's like school year beat the standard or you don't simple as that. God has no obligation to create a third destination since no one dirctly benefits from it except the people who don't follow his way.

to:

*** Disproportionate maybe but, maybe, but not fair. Heaven and hell apparently operate under the same kind of reward punishment system. Everyone who goes to heaven is treated with the same kind of reward an infinite amount of pleasure even though not everyone there has done the same amount of good. So yes, one's treatment in the afterlife is not a direct measurement of the amount of good or evil that done in their life. He simply sees it as those who follow his way and those who don't. It's like school year beat yout either meet the standard or you don't simple as that. God has no obligation to create a third destination since no one dirctly benefits from it except the people who don't follow his way.the afterlife is simply a pass or fail system.
28th Sep '17 5:12:51 PM FireBoss
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***Disproportionate maybe but, not fair. Heaven and hell apparently operate under the same kind of reward punishment system. Everyone who goes to heaven is treated with the same kind of reward an infinite amount of pleasure even though not everyone there has done the same amount of good. So yes, one's treatment in the afterlife is not a direct measurement of the amount of good or evil that done in their life. He simply sees it as those who follow his way and those who don't. It's like school year beat the standard or you don't simple as that. God has no obligation to create a third destination since no one dirctly benefits from it except the people who don't follow his way.
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