History Headscratchers / SuikodenII

8th Dec '15 2:35:42 AM judasmartel
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* I wonder if there is an explanation beyond "[[WhatCouldHaveBeen We don't have enough game spaces left!]]" about how neither Neclord nor Hix, Tengaar or even Tir (if you bring him along, it's possible) to recognize each other. Even if Neclord can pull ButForMeItWasTuesday because it's the doppelganger that was in Toran, Neclord was an important part in both Hix and Tengaar's lives, because Tengaar's abduction by Neclord was the thing that spurred Hix to [[TookALevelInBadass become a warrior]], it was a mandatory quest in the first game, not optional. Tir was also there to screw up with his plan instead of just sending Viktor alone (though that was what happened in the Drama CD), but for the three to just treat Neclord like 'just a new threat' instead of an old familiar face is... kind of confusing. The most we can get is Neclord being mentioned in Tengaar's first investigation, but aside of that... nothing else?
** Asides the spaces excuse, the focus of Neclord's Arc is more on Viktor's quest for revenge than Hix and Tengaar seeing a familiar face in a different place. Naturally the latter part hasn't gotten any focus.

to:

* I wonder if there is an explanation beyond "[[WhatCouldHaveBeen We don't have enough game spaces left!]]" about how neither Neclord nor Hix, Tengaar or even Tir (if you bring him along, it's possible) to recognize each other. Even if Neclord can pull ButForMeItWasTuesday because it's the doppelganger that was in Toran, Neclord was an important part in both Hix and Tengaar's lives, because Tengaar's abduction by Neclord was the thing that spurred Hix to [[TookALevelInBadass become a warrior]], it was a mandatory quest in the first game, not optional. Tir was also there to screw up with his plan instead of just sending Viktor alone (though that was what happened in the Drama CD), but for the three to just treat Neclord like 'just a new threat' instead of an old familiar face is... kind of confusing. The most we can get is Neclord being mentioned in Tengaar's first investigation, but aside of that... nothing else?
** Asides the spaces excuse, the focus of Neclord's Arc is more on Viktor's quest for revenge than Hix and Tengaar seeing a familiar face in a different place. Naturally the latter part hasn't gotten any focus.
else?
8th Dec '15 2:35:28 AM judasmartel
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** Neclord used a BodyDouble to escape FinalDeath in VideoGame/SuikodenI. Assuming memories of the clone don't transfer to the original as in the [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Shadow Clone Jutsu]], I think that's the only reason Neclord doesn't remember Hix and Tengaar anymore.

to:

** Neclord used a BodyDouble to escape FinalDeath in VideoGame/SuikodenI. Assuming memories of Asides the clone don't transfer to spaces excuse, the original as in the [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Shadow Clone Jutsu]], I think that's the only reason Neclord doesn't remember focus of Neclord's Arc is more on Viktor's quest for revenge than Hix and Tengaar anymore.seeing a familiar face in a different place. Naturally the latter part hasn't gotten any focus.
8th Dec '15 2:29:48 AM judasmartel
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* I wonder if there is an explanation beyond "[[WhatCouldHaveBeen We don't have enough game spaces left!]]" about how neither Neclord nor Hix, Tengaar or even Tir (if you bring him along, it's possible) to recognize each other. Even if Neclord can pull ButForMeItWasTuesday because it's the doppelganger that was in Toran, Neclord was an important part in both Hix and Tengaar's lives, because Tengaar's abduction by Neclord was the thing that spurred Hix to [[TookALevelInBadass become a warrior]], it was a mandatory quest in the first game, not optional. Tir was also there to screw up with his plan instead of just sending Viktor alone (though that was what happened in the Drama CD), but for the three to just treat Neclord like 'just a new threat' instead of an old familiar face is... kind of confusing. The most we can get is Neclord being mentioned in Tengaar's first investigation, but aside of that... nothing else?

to:

* I wonder if there is an explanation beyond "[[WhatCouldHaveBeen We don't have enough game spaces left!]]" about how neither Neclord nor Hix, Tengaar or even Tir (if you bring him along, it's possible) to recognize each other. Even if Neclord can pull ButForMeItWasTuesday because it's the doppelganger that was in Toran, Neclord was an important part in both Hix and Tengaar's lives, because Tengaar's abduction by Neclord was the thing that spurred Hix to [[TookALevelInBadass become a warrior]], it was a mandatory quest in the first game, not optional. Tir was also there to screw up with his plan instead of just sending Viktor alone (though that was what happened in the Drama CD), but for the three to just treat Neclord like 'just a new threat' instead of an old familiar face is... kind of confusing. The most we can get is Neclord being mentioned in Tengaar's first investigation, but aside of that... nothing else?else?
** Neclord used a BodyDouble to escape FinalDeath in VideoGame/SuikodenI. Assuming memories of the clone don't transfer to the original as in the [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Shadow Clone Jutsu]], I think that's the only reason Neclord doesn't remember Hix and Tengaar anymore.
30th Jul '15 8:16:19 AM NoPens
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Added DiffLines:

**The wielder of the Black Sword Rune generally believes that Power is the best path to solve any problem. At first, Jowy objective was to finish Luca Blight, but soon, he changed his mind. Jowy goal was to create a single powerful nation, that would intimidate and match any other nation who ever dares to try to challenge them. For such thing to happen, Jowy needed to unify Dunan as a whole, eliminating the City-State (which he saw their system ineffective and prone to disputes) and make Highland, a Kingdom, control all that, effectivelly ending the disputes. And funny enough, Jowy objective, in the end, was successful, because the Dunan Republic was born as a strong, unfied country.
21st Feb '15 1:30:05 AM ChrisX
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*** Indeed, it does suck to be Riou. However, when you look at it on the bigger thing, even if Riou DOES suffer, the world is still saved even if he made a lot of sacrifices and lost things. Calling him suffering with his state, while true, but ignoring the state of the world which has gotten better sounds incredibly selfish. What, in that ending Riou should've been thinking "If I knew this would happen, I should just let Luca & the Beast Rune run loose so long as they live!"? Riou is pretty selfless, you know. I realize that things would've really sucked for him in those endings, but considering that the state of the world can enter a state of peace that even after Higheast Rebellion, peace would still last (except with Tinto becoming Tinto Republic), that puts it on a BittersweetEnding territory: Victory at a cost.

to:

*** Indeed, it does suck to be Riou. However, when you look at it on the bigger thing, even if Riou DOES suffer, the world is still saved even if he made a lot of sacrifices and lost things. Calling him suffering with his state, while true, but ignoring the state of the world which has gotten better sounds incredibly selfish. What, in that ending Riou should've been thinking "If I knew this would happen, I should just let Luca & the Beast Rune run loose so long as they live!"? Riou is pretty selfless, you know. I realize that things would've really sucked for him in those endings, but considering that the state of the world can enter a state of peace that even after Higheast Rebellion, peace would still last (except with Tinto becoming Tinto Republic), that puts it on a BittersweetEnding territory: Victory at a cost.cost.
* I wonder if there is an explanation beyond "[[WhatCouldHaveBeen We don't have enough game spaces left!]]" about how neither Neclord nor Hix, Tengaar or even Tir (if you bring him along, it's possible) to recognize each other. Even if Neclord can pull ButForMeItWasTuesday because it's the doppelganger that was in Toran, Neclord was an important part in both Hix and Tengaar's lives, because Tengaar's abduction by Neclord was the thing that spurred Hix to [[TookALevelInBadass become a warrior]], it was a mandatory quest in the first game, not optional. Tir was also there to screw up with his plan instead of just sending Viktor alone (though that was what happened in the Drama CD), but for the three to just treat Neclord like 'just a new threat' instead of an old familiar face is... kind of confusing. The most we can get is Neclord being mentioned in Tengaar's first investigation, but aside of that... nothing else?
25th Jul '13 5:21:53 PM ChrisX
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*** Indeed, it does suck to be Riou. However, when you look at it on the bigger thing, even if Riou DOES suffer, the world is still saved even if he made a lot of sacrifices and lost things. Calling him suffering with his state, while true, but ignoring the state of the world which has gotten better sounds incredibly selfish. What, in that ending Riou should've been thinking "If I knew this would happen, I should just let Luca & the Beast Rune run loose so long as they live!"? Riou is pretty selfless, you know.

to:

*** Indeed, it does suck to be Riou. However, when you look at it on the bigger thing, even if Riou DOES suffer, the world is still saved even if he made a lot of sacrifices and lost things. Calling him suffering with his state, while true, but ignoring the state of the world which has gotten better sounds incredibly selfish. What, in that ending Riou should've been thinking "If I knew this would happen, I should just let Luca & the Beast Rune run loose so long as they live!"? Riou is pretty selfless, you know. I realize that things would've really sucked for him in those endings, but considering that the state of the world can enter a state of peace that even after Higheast Rebellion, peace would still last (except with Tinto becoming Tinto Republic), that puts it on a BittersweetEnding territory: Victory at a cost.
25th Jul '13 5:18:55 PM ChrisX
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*** Consider this - In the ending where Riou kills Jowy, he ends up with the entire Rune of Beginning, rendering him immortal (as I recall, WordOfGod says that the separated Rune of Beginning doesn't grant the same immortality) with the full knowledge that not only are most of the people who are important to him are dead, his best friend by his own hands. The Higheast Rebellion would have happened either way, but now he has to take part in it as well. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And he has to take part in the incredibly boring meetings that go with ruling a country]].

to:

*** Consider this - In the ending where Riou kills Jowy, he ends up with the entire Rune of Beginning, rendering him immortal (as I recall, WordOfGod says that the separated Rune of Beginning doesn't grant the same immortality) with the full knowledge that not only are most of the people who are important to him are dead, his best friend by his own hands. The Higheast Rebellion would have happened either way, but now he has to take part in it as well. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And he has to take part in the incredibly boring meetings that go with ruling a country]].country]].
*** Indeed, it does suck to be Riou. However, when you look at it on the bigger thing, even if Riou DOES suffer, the world is still saved even if he made a lot of sacrifices and lost things. Calling him suffering with his state, while true, but ignoring the state of the world which has gotten better sounds incredibly selfish. What, in that ending Riou should've been thinking "If I knew this would happen, I should just let Luca & the Beast Rune run loose so long as they live!"? Riou is pretty selfless, you know.
24th Jul '13 10:25:38 AM Argetlahm
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** And ensuring that there is peace in Jowston isn't a good enough thing to make it at least BittersweetEnding? At least you won't have the likes of Luca Blight running around, the old, selfish Jowston that disgusted Jowy has been mostly reformed or dead, the genocide proposed by the Beast Rune has been quelled, and both Highland and Jowston can ''finally'' enjoy a peace together and standing united against the latter 'Higheast Rebellion'. Okay, there's that thing about YouCantFightFate... but on the whole States and Highland? That is something insignificant that would be swept away with such thing?

to:

** And ensuring that there is peace in Jowston isn't a good enough thing to make it at least BittersweetEnding? At least you won't have the likes of Luca Blight running around, the old, selfish Jowston that disgusted Jowy has been mostly reformed or dead, the genocide proposed by the Beast Rune has been quelled, and both Highland and Jowston can ''finally'' enjoy a peace together and standing united against the latter 'Higheast Rebellion'. Okay, there's that thing about YouCantFightFate... but on the whole States and Highland? That is something insignificant that would be swept away with such thing?thing?
*** Consider this - In the ending where Riou kills Jowy, he ends up with the entire Rune of Beginning, rendering him immortal (as I recall, WordOfGod says that the separated Rune of Beginning doesn't grant the same immortality) with the full knowledge that not only are most of the people who are important to him are dead, his best friend by his own hands. The Higheast Rebellion would have happened either way, but now he has to take part in it as well. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking And he has to take part in the incredibly boring meetings that go with ruling a country]].
16th Jul '13 9:39:31 PM ChrisX
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** And ensuring that there is peace in Jowston isn't a good enough thing to make it at least BittersweetEnding? At least you won't have the likes of Luca Blight running around, the old, selfish Jowston that disgusted Jowy has been mostly reformed or dead, and both Highland and Jowston can ''finally'' enjoy a peace together and standing united against the latter 'Higheast Rebellion'. Okay, there's that thing about YouCantFightFate... but on the whole States and Highland? That is something insignificant that would be swept away with such thing?

to:

** And ensuring that there is peace in Jowston isn't a good enough thing to make it at least BittersweetEnding? At least you won't have the likes of Luca Blight running around, the old, selfish Jowston that disgusted Jowy has been mostly reformed or dead, the genocide proposed by the Beast Rune has been quelled, and both Highland and Jowston can ''finally'' enjoy a peace together and standing united against the latter 'Higheast Rebellion'. Okay, there's that thing about YouCantFightFate... but on the whole States and Highland? That is something insignificant that would be swept away with such thing?
16th Jul '13 9:38:51 PM ChrisX
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** Because in one of them, you go to the mountain where the story started and kill your friend. In the other, you don't go back and he dies alone anyway because of using the Black Sword to seal the Beast Rune. In both of them, depending on earlier events, you are never reunited with Nanami. Admittedly, that last point is somewhat hit-or-miss depending on the player's feelings, but the first half of the answer should cover it well enough.

to:

** Because in one of them, you go to the mountain where the story started and kill your friend. In the other, you don't go back and he dies alone anyway because of using the Black Sword to seal the Beast Rune. In both of them, depending on earlier events, you are never reunited with Nanami. Admittedly, that last point is somewhat hit-or-miss depending on the player's feelings, but the first half of the answer should cover it well enough.enough.
** And ensuring that there is peace in Jowston isn't a good enough thing to make it at least BittersweetEnding? At least you won't have the likes of Luca Blight running around, the old, selfish Jowston that disgusted Jowy has been mostly reformed or dead, and both Highland and Jowston can ''finally'' enjoy a peace together and standing united against the latter 'Higheast Rebellion'. Okay, there's that thing about YouCantFightFate... but on the whole States and Highland? That is something insignificant that would be swept away with such thing?
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